Git vs. SVN and what NOT to do...
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Even if your everyday VCS had great usability for the average user, this wouldn't work. They don't do binary files like pictures, Word docs or Excel sheets.
And no, XML based formats like docx wouldn't help a normal user either.That's why Word's functionality is built-in, and not just a fancy usability plugin for a general purpose VCS.
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@blakeyrat said:
Yah, but "learning curve" is a factor of the program. So if it's a "great" program, but it has a shitty learning curve, then it's not really all that great a program, is it? It has to be great in all aspects to be great.
There's this tacit assumption among programmers that if it's a programming tool, usability doesn't matter. Every so often you find a team that says, "fuck that belief" and makes something really, really great-- like the first Forms editor in VB, or HyperCard, or SQL Server Query Analyzer. So fuck that belief.
I agree to a point. Usability extends to all software, even if a developer is using it. But at this point, and probably for a long way forward, version control systems are not idiot proof and do have some learning curve. GIT or Mercurial are no harder to learn or use than SVN is and migrating should be even simpler if you have an SVN background. For new people, I'd say the biggest issue most people picking up version control face is not having to use a command line, it's understanding the concept of only ever seeing one file with history on it. Most people are used to the idea of manually versioning files by naming them differently, which fundamentally breaks version control systems.
Time Machine did a good job of explaining the single-file-with-history paradigm, and I think that's a step in the right direction. However, there's no excuse for a technical artist doing web design, game development, etc not knowing how to use a handful of basic commands on the command line. That would be like a plumber not understanding how to use a hammer because he doesn't use one as much as a carpenter. If the artist refuses to learn the tools of their trade (or business) then they should be reprimanded the same way a developer would for breaking builds.
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@boomzilla said:
@Soviut said:
@dohpaz42 said:
I have done my homework on Git, and that is one of its pluses; being able to work locally with multiple changesets before pushing it back into the remote for everyone to pick up. However, one thing that I've found that I dislike is that if someone who doesn't understand conflicts, or how to properly resolve them, Git will allow you to commit the conflict back into the repo. Subversion will not let you commit until the conflict has been resolved.
I actually am not as familiar with GIT, but I know Mercurial won't let you push the changes until you've pull the latest version of the repo and merged your changes locally.
In mercurial, you can push your changes without merging, but you have to use the --force flag.
I know, but that's a special case. It doesn't do it by default and can't be done accidentally. Likewise, you can actually tell mercurial to ignore force flags or just take 2 minutes to explain to your unseasoned developers and artists why doing so is a bad thing. Once they understand that they should pull and merge locally, then there's no need to ever consider the force flag.
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@blakeyrat said:
It helps to remember everybody here is a troll.
My new signature! Thanks. (I may use it everywhere)
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@topspin said:
Even if your everyday VCS had great usability for the average user, this wouldn't work. They don't do binary files like pictures, Word docs or Excel sheets.
And no, XML based formats like docx wouldn't help a normal user either.That's why Word's functionality is built-in, and not just a fancy usability plugin for a general purpose VCS.
Jesus, I hate this defeatism in IT people. "Waaah! It's slightly hard! It might require making plug-ins for applications! It's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!"
If you want to make great software, stop your crying and make great software. Nobody said this would be easy going in.
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This.
Microsoft is keen to arrange your document files for you by setting me ‘My Documents’ ‘My Music’ ‘My pictures’ etc etc.
I think if they are encouraging everyone to sort your shit into my documents they could have built a sort of high level journaling/document revision control system in this area.
For example if you save documents into this area the OS automatically gives the file some version meta data and you get the chance to add comments. If you copy this file out of the area, you just get the latest revision. You have the chance to right click in explorer and goto ‘History’. For word/excel type documents this just shows a short part of the changes, save date etc and gives you the chance to open an older version. For known picture files, the history could be just thumbnails. For sure for a lot of file types where the data changes are not known just display a list of history of save dates and comments....
It could be implemented as each file has a hidden twin which has all the history which can optionally be copied if you want to move around the history.
I am sure this would save a ton of people the occasional save mistake etc and be much more useful then the recycler. These days disk space is in excess, but will probably need some smart options to turn off or limit the amount of disk space used by history.
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@blakeyrat said:
"Waaah! It's slightly hard! It might require making plug-ins for applications! It's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!"
That's totally not what I said.
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@topspin said:
@blakeyrat said:
"Waaah! It's slightly hard! It might require making plug-ins for applications! It's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!"
That's totally not what I said.
Don't forget what blakeyrat said a few posts back:
@blakeyrat said:
It helps to remember everybody here is a troll.
;)
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@Helix said:
For example if you save documents into this area the OS automatically gives the file some version meta data and you get the chance to add comments. If you copy this file out of the area, you just get the latest revision. You have the chance to right click in explorer and goto ‘History’. For word/excel type documents this just shows a short part of the changes, save date etc and gives you the chance to open an older version. For known picture files, the history could be just thumbnails. For sure for a lot of file types where the data changes are not known just display a list of history of save dates and comments....
Shadowcopy does like... 75% of that already, and Explorer already knows how to thumbnail Word, Excel, PPT, images, txt and some other types. There's just no single UI that pulls it all together.
@topspin said:
That's totally not what I said.
I think I got the gist of it. You just said it "won't work", without even bothering to think of ways it could be made to work, which is about the same level of defeatism I had in my paraphrase.
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@topspin said:
TortoiseSVN's Word plug-in scripts work better than Word itself for tracking changes. If you use Word's track changes feature, you have to explicitly turn it on and it can only track one generation of changes at a time. It's far easier to simply commit a Word document to a SubVersion repository.Even if your everyday VCS had great usability for the average user, this wouldn't work. They don't do binary files like pictures, Word docs or Excel sheets.
And no, XML based formats like docx wouldn't help a normal user either.That's why Word's functionality is built-in, and not just a fancy usability plugin for a general purpose VCS.
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@Jaime said:
If you use Word's track changes feature
Does it actually work? Most times I turn it on it causes major formatting issues or just crashes word. Of course that was word 2003 so they might have actually worked it out since. Just got office 2010 and 2011 at work and have yet to test that. (I have both a Mac and win 7 on my desk)
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@Zemm said:
Does it actually work?
Yes.
@Zemm said:
Most times I turn it on it causes major formatting issues or just crashes word.
It's rock-solid.
@Zemm said:
Of course that was word 2003 so they might have actually worked it out since.
It's been around since Office 97, and it definitely worked fine in Word 2003 since the company I worked for used it on hundreds of complex documents every single day.
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@Zemm said:
Does it actually work?
I agree with blakeyrat's assessment. The biggest problem is forgetting to clear it before you release a document (to a customer, the public, etc). It's really handy in being able to tell apart changes by different people, different revisions, etc. You can also add comments to revisions IIRC.
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@blakeyrat said:
I worked for used it on hundreds of complex documents every single day.
Document 1: Password=No, Blakeyrat personal catalogue notes for Dr Who recorded series
Document 2: Password=No, Blakeyrat personal catalogue notes for Dr Who related memrobilia and collectables
Document 3: Password=Yes, Blakeyrat personal catalogue notes for Dr Who look-a-like porn and rare Dr Who wardrobe malfunction clips
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Helix, why do you have such a strong reaction against Doctor Who?
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@blakeyrat said:
I think I got the gist of it. You just said it "won't work", without even bothering to think of ways it could be made to work, which is about the same level of defeatism I had in my paraphrase.
From the guy who always complains people take him too literally...@blakeyrat said:
and the main reason they don't is because source control systems are all too fucking difficult
Your original post said people would love to use more version control if it had better usability. And from the context of this thread and you citing Word's specialized tracking I assumed this to mean: If SVN/Git/etc had great usability for what it's designed to do (versioning text files) it would be useful for everyday tasks, too, out of the box. Which is not true. Of course you can have specialized version control for that, it's possible and desirable. But it takes more than improving SVN's usability.So I didn't say it's impossible, but I read your comment to say that all it takes is improving general useability, not specializing for special needs.
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@Xyro said:
Helix, why do you have such a strong reaction against Doctor Who?
What makes you think it isn't a strong reaction against blakeyrat?
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@topspin said:
Your original post said people would love to use more version control if it had better usability.
Yes.
@topspin said:
And from the context of this thread and you citing Word's specialized tracking I assumed this to mean: If SVN/Git/etc had great usability for what it's designed to do (versioning text files) it would be useful for everyday tasks, too, out of the box. Which is not true.
Ok, I see where the problem lies now. I don't see SVN being for "versioning text files", I see it being for "versioning files". But even if you restrict the scope to "text files", it's still a shitty UI.
@topspin said:
Of course you can have specialized version control for that, it's possible and desirable. But it takes more than improving SVN's usability.
Considering how long SVN (and CVS, and mercurial, and git) have been around, and how there's been practically zero innovation in UI, the real problem here is that the teams developing these solutions do not give a fuck. Once that problem is conquered, the sky's the limit.
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@blakeyrat said:
Considering how long SVN (and CVS, and mercurial, and git) have been around, and how there's been practically zero innovation in UI, the real problem here is that the teams developing these solutions do not give a fuck. Once that problem is conquered, the sky's the limit.
The program's features and abilities are, rightly or wrongly (hint: rightly), considered mostly orthogonal to the GUI. That is, the guys who make these VCSs are not the same guys who make GUI wrappers around them, and so they consider the GUI SEP. (Now, I realize you said UI instead of GUI. Not sure if you're actually complaining about the CLI commands, too. I'm gonna just ass-u-me that you mean GUI.) You may think that's awful, but you're a client-centric kind of guy, so I won't blame you for it.It's not the worst way to design client-server software though, because eventually, some client builder DOES step up to the plate and design a "nice" GUI client. You may not agree that it's nice, but that's the client's fault, not at fault on the server side. And as such, it shouldn't exactly impact the criticism of the server-side software. That is to say, it's not SVN's fault that it doesn't have an innovative interface. It's the SVN client's fault. And there are so many SVN clients...
For realz, if you made a Time Capsule-like GUI for SVN, you could make a bundle selling it. Or be seen as an open source hero. THE CHOICE IS YOURS.
Meanwhile... @boomzilla said:
What makes you think it isn't a strong reaction against blakeyrat?
@Helix said:It's good blakeybate
:( but there are so many BETTER ways that don't involve scorning a show I love so much...
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@Xyro said:
The program's features and abilities are, rightly or wrongly (hint: rightly), considered mostly orthogonal to the GUI. That is, the guys who make these VCSs are not the same guys who make GUI wrappers around them, and so they consider the GUI SEP.
Anyway, then they're going about it the wrong way: subversion et al should be a library so you could plug-in whatever UI you wanted, instead of a CLI program.
@Xyro said:
(Now, I realize you said UI instead of GUI. Not sure if you're actually complaining about the CLI commands, too. I'm gonna just ass-u-me that you mean GUI.)
I meant UI. Then again the bar for CLIs is so fucking low right now, there's probably not a lot they can do within the constraints of the shitty console it needs to run in.
@Xyro said:
You may think that's awful, but you're a client-centric kind of guy, so I won't blame you for it.
I'm a "give a shit about the quality of your software" kind of guy. If you're not improving the product, including the UI, you're not giving a shit. That bothers me.
Not as much as projects actively making their UI worse, for example Adobe's Creative Suite, but still.
@Xyro said:
It's not the worst way to design client-server software though, because eventually, some client builder DOES step up to the plate and design a "nice" GUI client.
It's impossible to make a nice GUI that wraps a CLI. (Well, I concede it's possible, but it's at best extremely difficult and I've never seen an example of one.) Additionally, if you did make a good GUI that wrapped the CLI, that would force improvements to the CLI to cease or else risk breaking the GUI.
The only way to handle this issue is to separate the product entirely from its UI, that is, make it a library. Now maybe that already exists for these products, and we only see the CLI because the CLI is the only UI they've bothered to make, but considering that GUI programs like, say, TortoiseSVN are obviously just running CLI commands, I doubt that.
@Xyro said:
For realz, if you made a Time Capsule-like GUI for SVN, you could make a bundle selling it. Or be seen as an open source hero. THE CHOICE IS YOURS.
I alas do not care enough.
Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
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@blakeyrat said:
Considering how long SVN (and CVS, and mercurial, and git) have been around, and how there's been practically zero innovation in UI, the real problem here is that the teams developing these solutions do not give a fuck. Once that problem is conquered, the sky's the limit.
Honest question: Do you have any input on the sorts of things would improve the usability? Or links to same? Partly because there's a difference between giving a fuck and having an idea of how to go about it.
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@blakeyrat said:
Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Considering how long SVN (and CVS, and mercurial, and git) have been around, and how there's been practically zero innovation in UI, the real problem here is that the teams developing these solutions do not give a fuck. Once that problem is conquered, the sky's the limit.
Honest question: Do you have any input on the sorts of things would improve the usability? Or links to same? Partly because there's a difference between giving a fuck and having an idea of how to go about it.
Giving a fuck would involve doing the research to find out how to go about it.
Off the top of my head, do I know how to improve subversion? No. I barely use the thing, and when I do it's a project that has only one developer.
I can think of a couple improvements to TortoiseSVN off the top of my head... for example, when someone pastes in a URL directly from Google Code like this:
svn checkout https://mayan-dates.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ mayan-dates --username test@test.comit could automatically remove the "svn checkout" part from the front of it so I didn't have to do it manually. Additionally, it lacks progress bars for almost every operation.
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@blakeyrat said:
The only way to handle this issue is to separate the product entirely from its UI, that is, make it a library. Now maybe that already exists for these products, and we only see the CLI because the CLI is the only UI they've bothered to make, but considering that GUI programs like, say, TortoiseSVN are obviously just running CLI commands, I doubt that.
No, Subversion is already separated into lib and interface. TortoiseSVN is not calling the CLI svn, and doesn't even require it to be installed. It has its own graphical svn client (TortoiseProc).You have to give Stephan and Lübbe a lot of credit; they really keep up with the core svn lib changes and keep TSVN current. None of the other svn GUIs track as fast.
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SEP = "Someone Else's Problem", the acrobreviation comes from an HHGG book. If you were TELEPATHIC, you would have known that. Geez.
SVN clients aren't just CLI wrappers. Some might be, I dunno. Most all of them support CLI, at least, but they all stem from a client-side library. I know that, for example, Eclipse uses some Java-based SVN library. That's certainly not a CLI wrapper.
@blakeyrat said:
Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
It's easier (for me) parse sentence delineation with two spaces between them. The olden guideline always made sense to me.
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@blakeyrat said:
Giving a fuck would involve doing the research to find out how to go about it.
Sure. Consider this part of my research (not that I'm involved with any VCS project, but I'm still interested in the topic). I definitely agree with you that sometimes the problem is not caring (although there's the issue that some people really are better left to the back end, and others to the front end of things), but just knowing what the issues are. This goes way beyond simple usability. I'm sure we've all written something that we thought was pretty solid (and we tested it to make sure!) and then your test users immediately find all sorts of major problems.
@blakeyrat said:
Off the top of my head, do I know how to improve subversion? No. I barely use the thing, and when I do it's a project that has only one developer.
Out of curiosity, what VCS do you normally use?
@blakeyrat said:
I can think of a couple improvements to TortoiseSVN off the top of my head... for example, when someone pastes in a URL directly from Google Code like this:
svn checkout https://mayan-dates.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ mayan-dates --username test@test.comit could automatically remove the "svn checkout" part from the front of it so I didn't have to do it manually. Additionally, it lacks progress bars for almost every operation.Thanks for actually giving a specific example. I wonder how common this sort of problem / annoyance is. Obviously, you could simply copy the part you need. But more seriously, I guess that makes sense, given how these sorts of sites display that sort of thing. It must really fry you that these are geared toward a CLI, huh? :-)
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@boomzilla said:
Out of curiosity, what VCS do you normally use?
I usually do my coding at work, where we have Team Foundation Server. It's actually not as bad as people say.
@boomzilla said:
Thanks for actually giving a specific example. I wonder how common this sort of problem / annoyance is. Obviously, you could simply copy the part you need. But more seriously, I guess that makes sense, given how these sorts of sites display that sort of thing.
Well, let's see. I just finished selecting a menu named "Checkout". I then pasted in a piece of text starting with "svn checkout". Gee, do you think I might want to check out a repository? Throwing an error in this situation is one of those things where, if TortoiseSVN were a person, I'd spit in its coffee.
@boomzilla said:
It must really fry you that these are geared toward a CLI, huh? :-)
"These"?
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@blakeyrat said:
@boomzilla said:
It must really fry you that these are geared toward a CLI, huh? :-)
"These"?
Code hosting sites (google code, sourceforge, bitbucket, etc) that display info on how to check out the code from the public repo. Actually, github seems to only give you the URL.
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
@boomzilla said:
It must really fry you that these are geared toward a CLI, huh? :-)
"These"?
Code hosting sites (google code, sourceforge, bitbucket, etc) that display info on how to check out the code from the public repo. Actually, github seems to only give you the URL.
Oh. Again, my experience is limited... I've only really used Google Code. (I've used the bug tracker in SourceForge, which is a huge piece of shit, but that's not relevant to this thread.)
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@blakeyrat said:
The only way to handle this issue is to separate the product entirely from its UI, that is, make it a library. Now maybe that already exists for these products, and we only see the CLI because the CLI is the only UI they've bothered to make, but considering that GUI programs like, say, TortoiseSVN are obviously just running CLI commands, I doubt that.
TortoiseSVN does exactly that. The SubVersion developers keep the CLI stable for the benefit of all of the scripts out there that parse the output, not for the GUIs. The GUIs (at least the good ones) use the API, not the CLI.Also, the crappy UI part of this conversation is predicated on the fact that SubVersion doesn't do binaries well. However, TortoiseSVN is happy to invoke Word's track changes feature and works really well and has great usability. svn.exe is just the CLI client. Being CLI, it makes sense that it doesn't have extra support for GUI-application based binaries. TortoiseSVN adds GUI features, so it makes perfect sense that it will add change tracking support for popular GUI apps. It also has a diff tool for images.
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Congrats on blindly following every whim of some English professor somewhere and being a dick about it. Also, you can use prepositions at the end of a sentence, before.Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.
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@Sutherlands said:
@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.
Congrats on blindly following every whim of some English professor somewhere and being a dick about it.
Uh, it was a typing teacher, actually. I'm pretty sure you're the only one being a dick about anything here. Well, blakeyrat, too, but that probably goes without saying. Do people actually care about that? I guess typesetting has to have its pedantic dickweeds, too. Fortunately, my relationship to typesetting is more troll, less dickweed.
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@boomzilla said:
@Sutherlands said:
@boomzilla said:
Uh, it was a typing teacher, actually. I'm pretty sure you're the only one being a dick about anything here. Well, blakeyrat, too, but that probably goes without saying. Do people actually care about that? I guess typesetting has to have its pedantic dickweeds, too. Fortunately, my relationship to typesetting is more troll, less dickweed.@blakeyrat said:
Congrats on blindly following every whim of some English professor somewhere and being a dick about it. Also, you can use prepositions at the end of a sentence, before.Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.Did you seriously miss the fact that he used two spaces after the period? Your quote of him was missing the second sentence so I added it back in to make it more clear that he was doing it as well when responding like that.
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@locallunatic said:
Did you seriously miss the fact that he used two spaces after the period? Your quote of him was missing the second sentence so I added it back in to make it more clear that he was doing it as well when responding like that.
Heh, my CS editing CDO requires me to remove s, so....uh...yes? Anyways, given the other CS WTFs, how do I know what he really typed, eh? Also, IHBT.
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@boomzilla said:
@locallunatic said:
Sorry, that was directed at blakeyrat. Also, tags.Did you seriously miss the fact that he used two spaces after the period? Your quote of him was missing the second sentence so I added it back in to make it more clear that he was doing it as well when responding like that.
Heh, my CS editing CDO requires me to remove s, so....uh...yes? Anyways, given the other CS WTFs, how do I know what he really typed, eh? Also, IHBT.
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@blakeyrat said:
If my mom can't figure out how to use Git to track revisions of her church bulletins in an hour or less, it's a bad product.
Uh, no. If your mom can't figure out how to do that in less than 10 minutes with Git she's probably got some serious dementia issues and/or Parkinson's (trouble hitting the correct keys). I know you're trolling, but my goodness, let's at least try to make some progress here.
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@Power Troll said:
@blakeyrat said:
If my mom can't figure out how to use Git to track revisions of her church bulletins in an hour or less, it's a bad product.
Uh, no. If your mom can't figure out how to do that in less than 10 minutes with Git she's probably got some serious dementia issues and/or Parkinson's (trouble hitting the correct keys). I know you're trolling, but my goodness, let's at least try to make some progress here.
In my experience, Git documentation has a definite issue. Reading the reference material first, it can take a lot longer than an hour to figure out how to even get anything set up.
That having been said, if you start with the tutorial, you read at a reasonable rate, you don't suffer from dementia or other mental illness, you're not distracted in the middle, and your typing speed is half-way decent, I would expect it to take about 5-10 minutes to get started with git. It will take a bit longer, however, to figure out how to get the old versions you put into git back out, and how to do merges. But if you remember to start with the tutorial, picking up about where you left off, when it's time for those topics, it shouldn't take very long. (This is sort of like how the 'Rosetta Stone' demo CD has you speaking a foreign language in 10 minutes - but the tutorial should give you a bit more understanding in those 10 minutes than the Rosetta Stone CD will give you for *what* you're saying in that foreign language...)
Only look at the reference material if either you've finished the tutorial, or you really, really need more flexibility in your early basic commands. (Note: yes, I understand, the reference material isn't intended to be used in place of the tutorial. Users being users, it's still a doc issue.)
(Disclaimer: I've never actually gotten the Rosetta Stone CD, because the ads make it clear it's "immersion" language learning, which I've already found out I can't really do - I've failed every semester I tried one of those classes - even when it was the third semester of a language I'd been studying for four years. No, I'm not linguistically skilled, thank you very much - and four times to find a third semester instructor who didn't use immersion didn't help...)
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@tgape said:
...third semester of a language I'd been studying for four years.
There's TRWTF. What's a "third semester" after four years?
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@boomzilla said:
@tgape said:
The third course you're supposed to take after 4 years of trying to take it?...third semester of a language I'd been studying for four years.
There's TRWTF. What's a "third semester" after four years?
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@locallunatic said:
@boomzilla said:
@Sutherlands said:
@boomzilla said:
Uh, it was a typing teacher, actually. I'm pretty sure you're the only one being a dick about anything here. Well, blakeyrat, too, but that probably goes without saying. Do people actually care about that? I guess typesetting has to have its pedantic dickweeds, too. Fortunately, my relationship to typesetting is more troll, less dickweed.@blakeyrat said:
Congrats on blindly following every whim of some English professor somewhere and being a dick about it.[b] [/b]Also, you can use prepositions at the end of a sentence, before.Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.Did you seriously miss the fact that he used two spaces after the period? Your quote of him was missing the second sentence so I added it back in to make it more clear that he was doing it as well when responding like that.
It's easy to miss, so I FTFY by bolding the extra spaces.
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@Lorne Kates said:
It's true, I checked the HTML...@locallunatic said:
@boomzilla said:
@Sutherlands said:
@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.
Congrats on blindly following every whim of some English professor somewhere and being a dick about it.
Also, you can use prepositions at the end of a sentence, before.
Uh, it was a typing teacher, actually. I'm pretty sure you're the only one being a dick about anything here. Well, blakeyrat, too, but that probably goes without saying. Do people actually care about that? I guess typesetting has to have its pedantic dickweeds, too. Fortunately, my relationship to typesetting is more troll, less dickweed.Did you seriously miss the fact that he used two spaces after the period? Your quote of him was missing the second sentence so I added it back in to make it more clear that he was doing it as well when responding like that.
It's easy to miss, so I FTFY by bolding the extra spaces.
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Also congratulations on being the last person alive who puts two spaces after a period.
Second to last, at least. Old habits die hard.I still get frustrated that websites erase all the effort I went to putting that second space after every period. I never really fully understood the rationale of HTML to compress all whitespace into a single character to be honest. Of course, I never bothered spending the time to go read why that decision was made either.
(Incidentally, I also find it amusing that CS does put that second space in the HTML.)
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@too_many_usernames said:
I still get frustrated that websites erase all the effort I went to putting that second space after every period. I never really fully understood the rationale of HTML to compress all whitespace into a single character to be honest. Of course, I never bothered spending the time to go read why that decision was made either.
It's because
tabtabtab <things> tabtabtab <item>this</item> tabtabtab <item>that</item> tabtabtab </things>
needs to be the same as
<things> <item>this</item> <item>that</item> </things>
Indentation and line breaks for sanity shouldn't effect content.
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as an SVN guy i spent 45mins to an hour installin,playing and learning mercurial. I am going to stop using SVN and move over projects to hg... it is the future. And yes CLI is TRWTF but hey it is humpday afterall.
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@too_many_usernames said:
I still get frustrated that websites erase all the effort I went to putting that second space after every period.
...VY?
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WhyTF is this hard?
[code]
git pull
<work>
git add .
git commit -m "<your commit msg here>"
git push
[/code]
I usually add it to my makefiles (when working on private projects on which i may switch between either of my 3 desktops at any given time so my homeserver (reporposed old desktop i just wiped, clean installed and configured) allows me to keep all me stuff safe! (hell, even my wwwroot of that server is in source control, a nice hook on the upload allows me to autocall a pull on in the wwwroot dir when uploading!)
Those 4 commands are all you need to know to work with it!
EDIT: CS got me again! just escape the html yourself
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@dohpaz42 said:
@DaveK said:
@dohpaz42 said:
I have never used Git, and am more accustomed to Subversion [ ... ] Okay, no problem; he's an idiot. I'll just move the Git repositories back to Subversion the first chance that I get. After all, I am more familiar with Subversion, I have little interest in re-learning a new version control system, and there are no real immediate or long term benefits to staying with Git.
Okay, no problem, you're an idiot too. "I don't understand it" is actually not the same as "It is worthless", but it's a common fallacy committed by idiots. There are very real immediate and long-term benefits to learning how to use it, you simply don't know what they are because you have a closed mind and are convinced you know without trying.
I bothered to spend a couple of days learning how to use git after having been used to svn for many years. It was easy. Of course you have to be willing to learn new things and not emotionally attached to always doing things the same way you have done before.Okay, I'll byte. First off, I never said that it is worthless. I said that it doesn't fit with the work that I'm doing. I don't believe in change for the sake of change. Subversion works well for my, and my company's needs. In fact, Subversion is a better fit because it has a lower learning curve for non tech-savvy people. I've said this already. What I didn't say is that Subversion also has GUI tools, specifically for Eclipse. Harp on that all you want, but my productivity over the past two months of using Git has gone down in comparison to the same amount of work that I could do so much more efficiently with Subversion. I, as a single developer, have little need for "distributed" version control. My designer is not a command-line guy (what designer is?). Every time I help him learn something new with Git (I haven't even dared to suggest branching with him), I have to waste 10 minutes every hour re-explaining concepts to him. Harp on that all you will, but he has less interest in learning command line tools than I do learning Git.
Out of every single person who says "Git is better than Subversion", not one of them has said why. It's distributed. Big deal. So I have to commit twice (once locally, and once to the remote). Yeah, I get that it's decentralized. I prefer a centralized server. Oh, there's Github; it costs $12/month. Sure that's not a lot of money, but then again it still costs more than Subversion. So with that said, put your money where your mouth is: re-read my original post, then explain to me these "very real immediate and long-term benefits" for me spending my precious time learning a complex new piece of software that is nothing more than overkill.
It doesn't have to cost money...
Just run a private server!
If you're running Ubuntu, just search for "ubuntu private git repo".
Did so myself!
Granted, my setup is more complex b/c i use git-daemon for accessing my repo's r/w mode (no gitosis or stuff like that), but my firewall does a good job of only allowing my own local pc's to connect. I do have apache alias the repo so i can download the stuff from other pc's (NOT upload).
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Please don't resurrect 7-month old threads.
