High Five
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@smxlong said:
@Sutherlands said:
Around here, we get up to 10% of our salary as a bonus, distributed over 4 quarters
We had bonuses of around 10%, but a few years ago they stopped paying them and instead gave everyone in the company a 10% raise. Plus side, you don't have to worry if this year will be the year they don't give it out anymore. Minus side, you don't get that psychological effect of a nice blast of money right at the end of the year. I'm sure there's some "evil empire" side to it as well, but it doesn't bother me.
Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better.
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@Sutherlands said:
Also, we get $50/mo/person to go on team-bonding events.
Like say, Laser tag? *cackles*
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@Sutherlands said:
So if you are in America, a raise is better than a bonus, because you net more of it.
It's also sustainable, so you don't have to count on making a bonus next year to make the same amount.I'll take as many raises as you want to give me in lieu of a bonus. Luckily, I've made both for the past several years.
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@RTapeLoadingError said:
Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better.
No, because your bonus would also be a percentage of that raise. lrn2math@belgariontheking said:
@Sutherlands said:
We even have someone to consider a Lyle... "if you run out of paint, you can go out and come back in, nevermind if you're now flanking your opponents"Also, we get $50/mo/person to go on team-bonding events.
Like say, Laser tag? *cackles*@belgariontheking said:
lrn2quote@Sutherlands said:
So if you are in America, a raise is better than a bonus, because you net more of it.
It's also sustainable, so you don't have to count on making a bonus next year to make the same amount.I'll take as many raises as you want to give me in lieu of a bonus. Luckily, I've made both for the past several years.
Also, I'd rather have both than just one, because one of them looks like you make less, so you still get the raises.
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@Sutherlands said:
@RTapeLoadingError said:
Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better.
No, because your bonus would also be a percentage of that raise. lrn2mathNot necessarily. It depends on how bonuses are calculated. True, for some it's "two weeks pay" or whatever. Often, however, there's a fixed pool, and it gets divided up, not necessarily by relative salary. Also, you still get benefit from the raise even if you don't get a raise next year. Not so much from the bonus.
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@boomzilla said:
@Sutherlands said:
@RTapeLoadingError said:
Not necessarily. It depends on how bonuses are calculated.Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better.
No, because your bonus would also be a percentage of that raise. lrn2mathYes necessarily, for the exact instances we're talking about, which are percentage raises. Both my post and smxlong's post, which RTapeLoadingError was replying to, are strictly talking about percentage raises. Has anyone in this thread even mentioned strict number bonuses before you?
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@Sutherlands said:
@boomzilla said:
@Sutherlands said:
@RTapeLoadingError said:
Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better.
No, because your bonus would also be a percentage of that raise. lrn2math
Not necessarily. It depends on how bonuses are calculated.
Yes necessarily, for the exact instances we're talking about, which are percentage raises. Both my post and smxlong's post, which RTapeLoadingError was replying to, are strictly talking about percentage raises. Has anyone in this thread even mentioned strict number bonuses before you?There have been several mentions of bonuses not tied to salary in the thread, so yes. But so what? I qualified what I was talking about, so even if it didn't fit finely inside the conversation going on in your head, it's still correct. And in any case, the bonus structure can change a lot more easily in the future than salary.
More importantly, RTapeLoadingError was talking about an either / or situation, not a "both," which you seem to be assuming. Unless you've got some sort of compound bonus scheme going on there.
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You make X. You get a bonus of 10%, or they change it so that you get a raise of 10%. Assuming you get 5% raise each year, first year you would make X+.1X vs X+.1X. Second year you would make (X*1.05)*1.1 vs (X*1.1*1.05). Second year you would make (X*1.05^2)*1.1 vs (X*1.1*1.05^2)... see a pattern? You don't make more money with a 10% raise vs a 10% yearly bonus.
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@Sutherlands said:
...irrelevant math...
I'm not sure why you can't comprehend the concept of the bonus fairy not showing up some year. That was really the point. It's generally a lot easier to cancel a bonus than hand out a pay cut. Your automatic "bonus" thing kinda sounds like this is the whole point, which is to say, to give your employer some flexibility with respect to wages in case he needs it.
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@boomzilla said:
@Sutherlands said:
I can. Let me quote something for you....irrelevant math...
I'm not sure why you can't comprehend the concept of the bonus fairy not showing up some year.@RTapeLoadingError said:
Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better
No go back to the math. Do you see where it's appropriate? It's tough to find...@boomzilla said:
That was really the point. It's generally a lot easier to cancel a bonus than hand out a pay cut. Your automatic "bonus" thing kinda sounds like this is the whole point, which is to say, to give your employer some flexibility with respect to wages in case he needs it.
No, that wasn't the point. That was never the point. First, nobody is saying that it's not easier to cancel a bonus. Second, my employer's bonus has nothing to do with flexibility with respect to wages. He'd cancel the holiday party before stopping to give out bonuses.So just to recap, here's how the conversation went, try to see if you can find where it diverges.
Sutherlands: We get 10% of our salary as a bonus
smxlong: We had that but just got a raise instead
RTapeLoadingError: that's great because of how math works you get more and more money
Sutherlands: No you don't
boomzilla: Not all raises are percentages
Sutherlands: We're not talking about fixed bonuses
boomzilla: Bonus structure can change a lot easier than salary, besides RTapeLoadingError was talking about either a raise or a bonus
Sutherlands: *Math to show that a 10% bonus every year is the same as a 10% raise one year*
boomzilla: Dude your bonus structure can change! IDOIT!
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@Sutherlands said:
So just to recap, here's how the conversation went, try to see if you can find where it diverges.
Sutherlands: We get 10% of our salary as a bonus
smxlong: We had that but just got a raise instead
RTapeLoadingError: that's great because of how math works you get more and more money
Sutherlands: No you don't
boomzilla: Not all raises are percentages. Also, you still get benefit from the raise even if you don't get a raise next year.
Sutherlands: We're not talking about fixed bonuses
boomzilla: Bonus structure can change a lot easier than salary, besides RTapeLoadingError was talking about either a raise or a bonus
Sutherlands: *Math to show that a 10% bonus every year is the same as a 10% raise one year*
boomzilla: Dude your bonus structure can change! IDOIT!
FTFY
I see it! You focused on one particular thing that I said, which actually tied into my larger point, and then you ignored the larger point. Several times.
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YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS THREAD THAT IS ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER A BONUS HELPS IF YOU DON'T GET A BONUS NEXT YEAR.
Are you retarded? I ignored that part of comment 262486 BECAUSE I'M NOT ARGUING WITH IT. IT'S WELL UNDERSTOOD.
We, as a thread, were talking about bonuses AS A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR PAY. RTapeLoadingError said that future raises would keep on getting higher because of the compounding off the 10%. I said (in the context of getting it every year, which I do, and will, because my company is in no financial crisis) that the math doesn't support that, and that getting a 10% bonus every year is the same as a 10% bonus once. Then you said I was wrong BECAUSE OF FIXED DOLLAR AMOUNT BONUSES. Do you see how that doesn't flow with the conversation?
So once again, I'm ignoring your larger point because IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, AND EVEN IF IT DID, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S OBVIOUS AND THAT I WOULDN'T ARGUE WITH. THE PART I FOCUSED ON WAS THE STUPID PARTS YOU SAID.
(along with that last sentence, notice that I'm focusing a lot on your last post)
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Is this national "bicker about pointless shit" week? I didn't get the memo.
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@blakeyrat said:
Is this national "bicker about pointless shit" week? I didn't get the memo.
That's because it's not "send out pointless memos" week. You're going to be bickering in full-force no matter what.
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@Sutherlands said:
RTapeLoadingError said that future raises would keep on getting higher because of the compounding off the 10%. I said (in the context of getting it every year, which I do, and will, because my company is in no financial crisis) that the math doesn't support that, and that getting a 10% bonus every year is the same as a 10% bonus once. Then you said I was wrong BECAUSE OF FIXED DOLLAR AMOUNT BONUSES. Do you see how that doesn't flow with the conversation?
You're very angry. I think it's affecting your reading comprehension, because you seem to have missed that I was talking about the conversation as it existed, including RTapeLoadingError's statement, where the possibility of not getting a bonus was real. I guess you can try to pretend that this aspect of the thread doesn't exist, but I suspect it's just bad for your blood pressure to do so.
Anyways, I offered up bonuses not tied to a salary percent as another reason, partly because, yes, compensation structures can change. It may or may not apply to you, and that's fine, but it's still a legit reason to prefer the raise.
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@Sutherlands said:
@blakeyrat said:
Is this national "bicker about pointless shit" week? I didn't get the memo.
That's because it's not "send out pointless memos" week. You're going to be bickering in full-force no matter what.I would like to point out that, other than complaining about how fucking stupid the threads were, I have not been involved in either the teacher quality bickering, the union bickering, or the how to pay bonuses bickering.
Hopefully this post will start some, "Blakeyrat complaining about bickering" bickering, then we can really get the flamethrowers going.
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@blakeyrat said:
Hopefully this post will start some, "Blakeyrat complaining about bickering" bickering, then we can really get the flamethrowers going.
Fuck, man, you always do this shit. Just STOP with the pointless argumentative bullshit for once. geez.
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@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
Hopefully this post will start some, "Blakeyrat complaining about bickering" bickering, then we can really get the flamethrowers going.
Fuck, man, you always do this shit. Just STOP with the pointless argumentative bullshit for once. geez.Eh. It's just not doing it for me.
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@blakeyrat said:
I would like to point out that, other than complaining about how fucking stupid the threads were, I have not been involved in [b]either the teacher quality bickering, the union bickering[/b], or the how to pay bonuses bickering.
Those were the same topic! lern2thread, bickerfucker.
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@blakeyrat said:
Is this national "bicker about pointless shit" week? I didn't get the memo.
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@Gern Blaanston said:
@blakeyrat said:
Is this national "bicker about pointless shit" week? I didn't get the memo.
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WHY AM I GETTING THESE IN MY MAILBOX?!?!?!
Stop hitting Reply to all and use the unsubscribe link! (and stop filling my mailbox with this crap!)
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Stop hitting Reply to all and use the unsubscribe link! (and stop filling my mailbox with this crap!)
Intersting and informative newsletter! +1!
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@RTapeLoadingError said:
@smxlong said:
[quote user="Sutherlands"]Around here, we get up to 10% of our salary as a bonus, distributed over 4 quarters
We had bonuses of around 10%, but a few years ago they stopped paying
them and instead gave everyone in the company a 10% raise. Plus side,
you don't have to worry if this year will be the year they don't give it
out anymore. Minus side, you don't get that psychological effect of a
nice blast of money right at the end of the year. I'm sure there's some
"evil empire" side to it as well, but it doesn't bother me.Further plus is that future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount so it keeps on getting better.[/quote]
@Sutherlands said:
You make X. You get a bonus of 10%, or they change it so that you get a raise of 10%. Assuming you get 5% raise each year, first year you would make X+.1X vs X+.1X. Second year you would make (X*1.05)*1.1 vs (X*1.1*1.05). Second year you would make (X*1.05^2)*1.1 vs (X*1.1*1.05^2)... see a pattern? You don't make more money with a 10% raise vs a 10% yearly bonus.
Well... the way I read smxlon's post was that in previous years he/she got a 10% bonus, but this year they got a 10% raise instead. I contended that this was better because future pay rises are a percentage of the higher amount. The scenarios I considered were:
1) The company continues with pay rises for the following years; and
2) The company reverts to a bonus scheme for the following years;Am I wrong in thinking for the above two scenarios, given a starting salary of $1000 and a raise/bonus of 10%, that the maths would be:
Scenario 1
Get the bonus each year Get the raise each year
Year Base Pay Total Base Pay Total
1 1000 1100 1000 1100
2 1000 1100 1100 1210
3 1000 1100 1210 1331Scenario 2
Get the bonus each year Get the raise in year 1 and bonus thereafter
Year Base Pay Total + Bonus Base Pay Total
1 1000 1100 1000 1100
2 1000 1100 1100 1210
3 1000 1100 1100 1210
Please let me know if there's something faulty in my understanding or if the maths doesn't add up.
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No that's right. But the idea was that he either got the bonus every year, or he got a one-time raise (not every year). In that case, when you factor into account his regular raise, it would be the same.
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