Router Turning Off When PC Is Also Off



  • I believe everybody who's reading this has at least a few friends or relatives who should probably not be allowed anywhere near a computer, and they turn to you when they break their things because "you're good with computers" (as in, you've got a major in Computer Science so just that you would know how in which hole a VGA cable goes).

    So I went helping a friend with his LAN this weekend. The problem reported: whenever he turned of his desktop, the other two PC's in his home (and his neighbor's laptop) would get "disconnected from the internet". I was thinking all kinds of things, like some malware in those machines had somehow cheated them into thinking that PC was their gateway, just so that some script kiddie could peek into whatever they were doing... Or maybe they mistook the LAN cable slots for the desktop and a modem, and now the router was using a shared connection to find its way to the WAN.

    Turns out it was something so much simpler. They connected the router's electrical outlet to the desktop's PSU. So when the desktop was turned off, so was the router. TRWTF, IMO, is that this is the only PSU I've ever seen that cuts the power to its outlet when the machine is turned off. Every other PSU I've seen keeps supplying power through its back even when the PC is OFF, most other either have a switch if you REALLY want to cut all power, or have no switch and are always providing some.

    So I asked "why would you do that?" Response: there were no more slots available in the voltage regulator. It was true; but then, since I don't figure a way in which they would use the monitor with the PC turned off, I just switched the monitor's outlet with the router's. Problem solved.

    Only he thought I hadn't finished my job just by doing jsut this. Solving his outlet plugging scheme was not enough... I still had to check why his neighbor's laptop kept disconnecting when he turned his PC off.

    I really wish I had a clue-by-four.



  • Your PSU's have outlets?



  • Many do. It's normal. The intention is that you run your screen off it with a power extension cable and it saves cables needlessly going all the way out to the nearest power socket.



  • @nexekho said:

    Many do. It's normal. The intention is that you run your screen off it with a power extension cable and it saves cables needlessly going all the way out to the nearest power socket.

    Last time I've seen a PSU to sport a power outlet was more than 10 years ago. Since then I had to buy 6 PSUs (bad in-house power grid which frequently kills all kinds of electrical appliances) and none of them had that feature. In fact, I think it changed around the time the AT form factor was replaced by ATX.



  • [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]They connected the router's electrical outlet to the desktop's PSU[/quote] Hold on, I've got to use an image for this one...

     

     

     [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]Response: there were no more slots available in the voltage regulator.[/quote]Even so surely someone had the two brain cells it takes to notice the router turning off?



  • @dhromed said:

    Your PSU's have outlets?

    Yeah, they look like this:

    @DOA said:

    [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]They connected the router's electrical outlet to the desktop's PSU

    Hold on, I've got to use an image for this one...

     

     

     [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]Response: there were no more slots available in the voltage regulator.[/quote]Even so surely someone had the two brain cells it takes to notice the router turning off?

    [/quote]

    Yeah, that was me.



  • TRWTF is that I was most of the way through this thread and having trouble seeing the point... before it hit me that the OP had said "PSU", not "UPS".



  • [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]

    Yeah, they look like this:

    [/quote]

    Interesting, the last time i saw a PSU like that was in the 486 era... when you had to turn off the power manually. None of my personal or office computers had one like that ever since.

    Also all the modems and routers around here either have their own external 12v/16v/etc PSU that connects to a normal wall outlet, or just a cable that connects to one, none have a connector that can go into a PSU.



  • [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]They connected the router's electrical outlet to the desktop's PSU.[/quote]

    Wow, there's a blast from the past. I think my PowerMac 4400 in 1997 had that.



  • @Scarlet Manuka said:

    TRWTF is that I was most of the way through this thread and having trouble seeing the point... before it hit me that the OP had said "PSU", not "UPS".

    Lysdexia is a bicht.



  • @Anonymouse said:

    Lysdexia is a bicht.
     

    so is disleksia and also a bitsh.



  • @bdew said:

    Also all the modems and routers around here either have their own external 12v/16v/etc PSU that connects to a normal wall outlet, or just a cable that connects to one, none have a connector that can go into a PSU.

    The higher end routers that my employers supply to customers still generally have either a two part power supply, a transformer that takes a PC input; or directly take a PC input. Can be useful for UPSing them, but is a bit useless when generally the switches we sell have a wall-wart...



  • Interestingly enough, about half of PSU's sold where I live have an outlet. Some of them are either pretty and high-techy, painted in black and with extra features. I think it's a market thing... There must be more competition here so the makers try to add more value to something that could be simpler.



  • [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]Interestingly enough, about half of PSU's sold where I live have an outlet. Some of them are either pretty and high-techy, painted in black and with extra features. I think it's a market thing... There must be more competition here so the makers try to add more value to something that could be simpler.[/quote] 

    You know I've always tried to find those because it's rather handy to have the monitor off when the computer is off, but I can't even find them on newegg, much less neighborhood stores.  Where do you live?



  • @Master Chief said:

    You know I've always tried to find those because it's rather handy to have the monitor off when the computer is off

    I agree with the handiness, but is there a difference between the PSU suddenly cutting power to the monitor, compared to pushing the off button?



  • @dhromed said:

    @Master Chief said:

    You know I've always tried to find those because it's rather handy to have the monitor off when the computer is off

    I agree with the handiness, but is there a difference between the PSU suddenly cutting power to the monitor, compared to pushing the off button?

    Yeah, most monitors don't turn off anymore, they go into "standby" mode. It still draws electricity (sometimes several watts), essentially wasting money.



  • @Master Chief said:

    [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]Interestingly enough, about half of PSU's sold where I live have an outlet. Some of them are either pretty and high-techy, painted in black and with extra features. I think it's a market thing... There must be more competition here so the makers try to add more value to something that could be simpler.

     

    You know I've always tried to find those because it's rather handy to have the monitor off when the computer is off, but I can't even find them on newegg, much less neighborhood stores.  Where do you live?

    [/quote]

    Fortaleza, Brazil.

    If you do find one with an outlet, but it doesn't work as you want it to, you can open it and rewire the outlet so that it does lose its power should the PC be turned off (if you don't care about things like warranties).



  •  You want one of [url=http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=27]these[/url].



  • [quote user="Renan "C#" Sousa"]If you do find one with an outlet, but it doesn't work as you want it to, you can open it and rewire the outlet so that it does lose its power should the PC be turned off (if you don't care about things like warranties).[/quote] 

    Do you insert a relay in there, or just try with a triac or something? I remember my 386 had a mechanical switch in the front (the incoming 240V would go directly through it) but with ATX power supplies (only 3.3, ±5, ±12V lines coming out of the PSU)  there's no mechanical isolation. I should take a photo of a cable someone I know made: a male IEC on one end and female normal power socket on the other: lets you plug arbitrary items into the PSU outlet.

    Besides, people would have powerboards these days. I just searched Google Images for "powerboard" and virtually all of them were the Australian style: I'm not sure if "powerboard" is an Australian term or just because I'm in Australia and that's what Google gives me.



  • It's more commonly know as a powerstrip here in the states.



  •  Furthermore, the outlets on the strip are commonly aligned with the strip rather than at right angles to it, so if you're plugging in things that come with massive wall-warts, a "six-outlet" power strip may accommodate as many as four plugs if you arrange them in the right order.

    Rather than make wall-warts smaller, the market solution to multiple plugs interfering geometrically with one another has been the "power squid", which puts each outlet at the end of a small cord:




  • @da Doctah said:

     Furthermore, the outlets on the strip are commonly aligned with the strip rather than at right angles to it, so if you're plugging in things that come with massive wall-warts, a "six-outlet" power strip may accommodate as many as four plugs if you arrange them in the right order.

    Rather than make wall-warts smaller, the market solution to multiple plugs interfering geometrically with one another has been the "power squid", which puts each outlet at the end of a small cord:


    This has been an episode of History Of Power Strips, boring forum readers with tedium since 2011!



  • @da Doctah said:

    power squid
     

    This is better, I reckon. The sockets are more spaced out. I have one with just half of this one. Those squid arms would get entagled in things and just look messy.




  • @bdew said:

    Interesting, the last time i saw a PSU like that was in the 486 era... when you had to turn off the power manually. None of my personal or office computers had one like that ever since.

    Also all the modems and routers around here either have their own external 12v/16v/etc PSU that connects to a normal wall outlet, or just a cable that connects to one, none have a connector that can go into a PSU.

     

    I also remember those. AFAIK, thepower should be cut when the computer is shut off.

    I think they were abandoned when PC power usage went up, and the power for a PC + monitor exceeded the maximum allowed for a single outlet. Idon't remember ever seeing an ATX PSU with such a throughput.

    Nowadays, you need a special powerstrip with a "master" slot.It cuts the power to the "slave" outlets when the "master" device is turned off.You can use those for your printer, scanner, modem etc.

     



  • @ggeens said:

    the maximum allowed for a single outlet.
     

    You mean the maximum allowed for a reasonable-sized PSU?

    How do you explain power strips, which turn 1 outlet into many?

    @ggeens said:

    Nowadays, you need a special powerstrip with a "master" slot.It cuts the power to the "slave" outlets when the "master" device is turned off.You can use those for your printer, scanner, modem etc.

    Whu? Need?

    I'm sure such devices exist, but they're sure as hell aren't common here, and the ordinary power strips pictured in this thread aren't of that kind either.

     

    FYI, this is the kind I normally use here in crazy ol' Dutchland :

    I have 2 dual outlets (2×2 = 4 sockets) in my study room, and I sometimes have a bass amp, my audio receiver, PC and monitor (19" CRT) turned on. No problemo.


     



  • @ggeens said:

    Nowadays, you need a special powerstrip with a "master" slot.It cuts the power to the "slave" outlets when the "master" device is turned off.You can use those for your printer, scanner, modem etc.

    I've never seen a powerstrip like that, but I have seen shop vacs with a similar feature. Basically, certain tools that create a lot of dust have a way to attach the vacuum hose, and you plug it into a plug on the shop vac. Then, the shop vac comes on when you turn on the tool, and stops running a couple of seconds after it stops. Very convenient.



  • http://www.switched.com/2008/01/06/the-power-strip-reinvented/

    For the people who are bored enough to care about power strips



  • @serguey123 said:

    For the people who are bored enough to care about power strips
     

    Maybe I'll make this thread a sticky.



  • @bdew said:

    Interesting, the last time i saw a PSU like that was in the 486 era... when you had to turn off the power manually. None of my personal or office computers had one like that ever since.

    Also all the modems and routers around here either have their own external 12v/16v/etc PSU that connects to a normal wall outlet, or just a cable that connects to one, none have a connector that can go into a PSU.

    Indeed it is far less common then it was (when it was standard) but my mother's computer has it too, and that one is from 2006 (she doesn't require much...) and I've seen it at least twice more.

    I've never seen it on A-brand power supplies and computers from large manifacturers (Dell, HP etc) in the last 10 years, which would explain why most geeks don't see it anymore (since they usually buy an A-brand for themselves and see only office computers). But it is still sometimes available on no-name cheap-ass supplies.



  • I personally always laugh at people who say that pluging to much things in the same outlet is dangerous/not a good thing to do. Ultimately is goes all to the same power group (in most houses/rooms at least) and the wiring in your house isn't usually much better than that of a good powerstrip.

    Of course putting 3000W of strain on your the power strip that you bought for $3 is never a good idea, but it is neither a good idea to put 100W on that.



  • @dtech said:

    I personally always laugh at people who say that pluging to much things in the same outlet is dangerous/not a good thing to do. Ultimately is goes all to the same power group (in most houses/rooms at least) and the wiring in your house isn't usually much better than that of a good powerstrip.

    Of course putting 3000W of strain on your the power strip that you bought for $3 is never a good idea, but it is neither a good idea to put 100W on that.

    I dunno about that. That assumes that the breakers and internal fuses are all working as expected -- which if they were, there wouldn't really be any danger to begin with. Since the risk of overcurrent does exist, then why would it be a equally safe idea to place all the current-sucking devices onto one intermediate device? Do you really trust a powerstrip's protection over that of your houses'? (To say nothing of heat generation of six wall warts packed together. )



  • @dtech said:

    I personally always laugh at people who say that pluging to much things in the same outlet is dangerous/not a good thing to do. Ultimately is goes all to the same power group (in most houses/rooms at least) and the wiring in your house isn't usually much better than that of a good powerstrip.

    Of course putting 3000W of strain on your the power strip that you bought for $3 is never a good idea, but it is neither a good idea to put 100W on that.

    My house was built and wired in 1927, you insensitive clod!



  • @Xyro said:

    @dtech said:
    I personally always laugh at people who say that pluging to much things in the same outlet is dangerous/not a good thing to do. Ultimately is goes all to the same power group (in most houses/rooms at least) and the wiring in your house isn't usually much better than that of a good powerstrip.

    Of course putting 3000W of strain on your the power strip that you bought for $3 is never a good idea, but it is neither a good idea to put 100W on that.

    I dunno about that. That assumes that the breakers and internal fuses are all working as expected -- which if they were, there wouldn't really be any danger to begin with. Since the risk of overcurrent does exist, then why would it be a equally safe idea to place all the current-sucking devices onto one intermediate device? Do you really trust a powerstrip's protection over that of your houses'? (To say nothing of heat generation of six wall warts packed together. )

     



  • @Helix said:

    Filed under: [url="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/tags/ignoramus/default.aspx"]ignoramus[/url]

    then enlighten me



  • The lack of mains output is because of the change from AT to ATX.  The newer 'softstart' feature in ATX made the feature of 'switched mains' outlet cost prohibitive.  Besides, the need for switched monitors was reduced via Energy Star stipulating that compliant monitors will switch to a power-saving mode if no video-input signal is received.. either that or the newer 15pin connector VGA with monitor ID pins - not sure.

    Nothing to do with current blah blah



  • @Helix said:

    Nothing to do with current blah blah what you were talking about.

    FTFY



  • @da Doctah said:

    Furthermore, the outlets on the strip are commonly aligned with the strip rather than at right angles to it

    I think the US (or at least US-style outlet) is the only case I've seen where that is the norm. (And in my neck of the woods, they're generally referred to as "strip plugs".)



  •  Oh BTW guys, I just want to go 'on record' while we are here; I think in the UK these are commonly called 4 way extensions. OK.

     I am sure both myself and colleagues (Blakeyant) would welcome ANY feedback on the naming and style conventions, in particular those that include three letter acronyms (TLAs).



  • @Helix said:

     Oh BTW guys, I just want to go 'on record' while we are here; I think in the UK these are commonly called 4 way extensions. OK.

     I am sure both myself and colleagues (Blakeyant) would welcome ANY feedback on the naming and style conventions, in particular those that include three letter acronyms (TLAs).

    Yeah! And then let's film a douche-y documentary movie about it! At least 5 hours long.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Helix said:

     Oh BTW guys, I just want to go 'on record' while we are here; I think in the UK these are commonly called 4 way extensions. OK.

     I am sure both myself and colleagues (Blakeyant) would welcome ANY feedback on the naming and style conventions, in particular those that include three letter acronyms (TLAs).

    Yeah! And then let's film a douche-y documentary movie about it! At least 5 hours long.

     

    Ah I know just the utility for documenting and searching movies.

     



  • @homsar said:

    @da Doctah said:
    Furthermore, the outlets on the strip are commonly aligned with the strip rather than at right angles to it

    I think the US (or at least US-style outlet) is the only case I've seen where that is the norm. (And in my neck of the woods, they're generally referred to as "strip plugs".)

    That's because it's cheaper to make that way. Take one of those apart and you'll probably find that there are 3 conductors running the whole length. The only thing dividing them into sockets is the plastic case.



  • @Sir Twist said:

    That's because it's cheaper to make that way. Take one of those apart and you'll probably find that there are 3 conductors running the whole length. The only thing dividing them into sockets is the plastic case.

    I think in many (most?) countries that would be very impractical because many if not all power cables emerge perpendicular from the plug. (Pretty much all in the UK; in continental Europe I think it might be the case with many grounded but few ungrounded plugs)



  • @dtech said:

    Of course putting 3000W of strain on your the power strip that you bought for $3 is never a good idea, but it is neither a good idea to put 100W on that.
     

    I've had a 10-person LAN party hanging off one 30m extension cord without problems - with daisy-chained powerboards - though this was in 2000-2001 so the computers didn't suck down the watts as much as they would today. Of course even the cheap $3 ones here are rated for 2400W so it's safe. I have had the overcurrent protection tripped before - when someone plugged in a kettle at the LAN party!

    @dtech said:

    I personally always laugh at people who say that pluging to much things in the same outlet is dangerous/not a good thing to do.

     I once lived in a house where my room had one single outlet. Daisy-chain powerboards again for my 23 items (computers, monitors, speakers, switch, modem, TV, VCR, Playstation, chargers, lamps, etc, etc). Yay! Also, it is the only way to get Christmas lights illuminated, since I usually install several dozen strings.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Rhywden said:

    @nexekho said:
    Many do. It's normal. The intention is that you run your screen off it with a power extension cable and it saves cables needlessly going all the way out to the nearest power socket.

    Last time I've seen a PSU to sport a power outlet was more than 10 years ago. Since then I had to buy 6 PSUs (bad in-house power grid which frequently kills all kinds of electrical appliances) and none of them had that feature. In fact, I think it changed around the time the AT form factor was replaced by ATX.
    I saw one ghetto offbrand "gamer" PSU with a pass-through port on the back. A regular wall-port one - not the female trapezoidal one that should have been there.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Zemm said:

    Also, it is the only way to get Christmas lights illuminated, since I usually install several dozen strings.
    Here in Amerika, our superior, not-excessively-bulky electrical plug allows us to build stack connectors - where you can plug one device into the plug head of another. It's uncommon for most everything except christmas lights, but it's AWESOME.



  • @Weng said:

    @Zemm said:

    Also, it is the only way to get Christmas lights illuminated, since I usually install several dozen strings.
    Here in Amerika, our superior, not-excessively-bulky electrical plug allows us to build stack connectors - where you can plug one device into the plug head of another. It's uncommon for most everything except christmas lights, but it's AWESOME.

    There's nothing to stop that working with the far bulkier (for a few reasons, fuse mainly) UK-style sockets; its just not done very often beyond homeplug networking adapters; useless fire hazards that are apparently air fresheners or various sensors/switches (room temperature, motion, etc) for retrofitted home automation.



  • @Weng said:

    Here in Amerika,

    You mispelled "Amerikkka". ("'murca" is also acceptable.)


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    @Weng said:
    Here in Amerika,

    You mispelled "Amerikkka". ("'murca" is also acceptable.)

     

    Amerika is my preferred spelling because I know far too many Germans who prefer to think the vaterland is center of the universe, greatest nation of all time, and that the EU is their way of stealthily ruling the entire continent and the UN is their way to impose their will upon the world.

    They also like to pretend that Ramstein AFB is there because they've tricked the American 'mercenaries' into defending the vaterland against all comers.

    Also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yydlX7c8HbY




  • @Weng said:

    Here in Amerika, our superior, not-excessively-bulky electrical plug allows us to build stack connectors - where you can plug one device into the plug head of another.
    I've seen that done with schuko plugs, but it's not common. Then again, I've also seen things like this:
    Plug overload



  • @ender said:

    I've seen that done with schuko plugs, but it's not common. Then again, I've also seen things like this:

    One of my favorite gags in A Christmas Story is when the dad is setting up the Christmas lights, and their outlets all look approximately like that. Having an old "1 ungrounded outlet per room" house myself, that joke particularly hit home for me.


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