The world language



  • @PJH said:

    @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @The_Assimilator said:
    Like Noah's Ark creationist national parks?
    Cite?

    Hmm, the only Noah's Ark national park that I'm aware of is in Turkey.

    However I also found this http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/cosmos/origines/gvtfunding_pg.htm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40460324/ns/us_news-life/
    A full-scale replica of Noah's Ark will be the biggest feature of a creationism-themed amusement park expected to open in 2014 in northern Kentucky


    $150m.

    Hmm, ok but is not a national park, the only thing that the goverment decides in this case is if this project is eligible for tax breaks under the law.



  • @PJH said:

    @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @The_Assimilator said:
    Like Noah's Ark creationist national parks?
    Cite?

    Hmm, the only Noah's Ark national park that I'm aware of is in Turkey.

    However I also found this http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/cosmos/origines/gvtfunding_pg.htm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40460324/ns/us_news-life/
    A full-scale replica of Noah's Ark will be the biggest feature of a creationism-themed amusement park expected to open in 2014 in northern Kentucky


    $150m.

    Amusement park != national park.

    Did you think I was so stupid I wouldn't notice that?



  • @serguey123 said:

    Hmm, ok but is not a national park, the only thing that the goverment decides in this case is if this project is eligible for tax breaks under the law.

    And the really depressing thing is, they decided it was. Oh well, it's Kentucky, what do you expect?



  • @toth said:

    @serguey123 said:
    Hmm, ok but is not a national park, the only thing that the goverment decides in this case is if this project is eligible for tax breaks under the law.

    And the really depressing thing is, they decided it was. Oh well, it's Kentucky, what do you expect?

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!



  • @Xyro said:

    @toth said:
    @serguey123 said:
    Hmm, ok but is not a national park, the only thing that the goverment decides in this case is if this project is eligible for tax breaks under the law.
    And the really depressing thing is, they decided it was. Oh well, it's Kentucky, what do you expect?

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!

    Ok, but you see there is the pesky idea that by allowing this they are implicitly approving the religious belief this park represent and that is a big no no.  This line of reasoning is thin to say the least but feelings of impropriety may linger and tarnish the government.  When in doubt....

    I think that for this case it should be ok to provide tax break, I mean, I have seen sillier things... but it is a slippery slope.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:
    Ok, from a purely philosophical view, that is correct, except is not american concept.  Have you heard about the French Revolution?

    Have you heard about the Mayflower Accord?

    It might not be an "American" (meaning: the government of the United States of America) idea, but it's definitely an American (the occupants of North America) idea.

     

    Not to mention that the American Revolution started in 1776 and the French Revolution was from 1789–1799.  The words "All men are created equal" was penned and signed in the Declaration of Independence 13 years before the French Revolution even began, making his arguement completely retarded.



  • @serguey123 said:

    @Xyro said:

    @toth said:
    @serguey123 said:
    Hmm, ok but is not a national park, the only thing that the goverment decides in this case is if this project is eligible for tax breaks under the law.
    And the really depressing thing is, they decided it was. Oh well, it's Kentucky, what do you expect?

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!

    Ok, but you see there is the pesky idea that by allowing this they are implicitly approving the religious belief this park represent and that is a big no no.  This line of reasoning is thin to say the least but feelings of impropriety may linger and tarnish the government.  When in doubt....

    I think that for this case it should be ok to provide tax break, I mean, I have seen sillier things... but it is a slippery slope.

    Tax breaks for tourism certainly stands on flaky logic, but it nevertheless has precedent. As such, since it's not a "law respecting an establishment of religion", it's perfectly Constitutional and consistent with acts that having nothing to do with religion in general.

    Now, if we want to talk about scams (or are we past that topic?), we could hurl news articles at each other about the construction of freaking multi-million dollar sports stadiums receiving support with public funding. Because, you know, it'll help the local economy. It also hurts the local economy, unskilled labor ftw, but hooopefully less so. However, as far as I know, this would have nothing to do with the Federal government, which if I recall correctly was one of the starting arguments of this lamest thread ever.

    If we want to talk about scamming the Federal government, well, only one word needs to be said: bailout.



  • @serguey123 said:

    @Xyro said:

    @toth said:
    @serguey123 said:
    Hmm, ok but is not a national park, the only thing that the goverment decides in this case is if this project is eligible for tax breaks under the law.
    And the really depressing thing is, they decided it was. Oh well, it's Kentucky, what do you expect?

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!

    Ok, but you see there is the pesky idea that by allowing this they are implicitly approving the religious belief this park represent and that is a big no no.  This line of reasoning is thin to say the least but feelings of impropriety may linger and tarnish the government.  When in doubt....

    I think that for this case it should be ok to provide tax break, I mean, I have seen sillier things... but it is a slippery slope.



    The issue isn't that this is a religious park, the issue is that it is an amusement park.

    I can agree with government spending in private projects if they both enable the private project to exist and earn money for the government, but that second part almost never comes true. Here in .be last year's big discussion was about a ring road around a medium-sized city which doesn't go all the way around the city and should very quickly never at some point in the future be completed by building a bridge tunnel both multiple tunnels due to diesel dust economic importance for Belgium as a transport hub dogmatic resistance to motorised transport proximity to residential zones cost so we blew 10 years worth of study to decide on the worst option followed by political clout to suppress alternatives. Presumably bribes were involved.

    Then this year's big thing (other than the usual linguistic cold war) is popular oversubsidised solar panels paid for by an electricity bill hike for everyone else when the leftist government discovered you need money to spend it. Turns out solar panels weren't even the best option, a lot of money went into promoting the wrong choice, their performance is poor, and surprisingly it turns out you can't put them on apartment buildings or on houses that don't face south as in most city homes, which everyone totally saw coming.

    Meanwhile NOT subsidised: private initiatives; foreign investors (except French ones naturally -insert rant about political system-).

    And two years ago it was about night flights around the capital airport. Surprisingly when you live near the airport you hear planes. But the wrong (politically influential) people lived near the airport so it was decided to cut down on the number of night flights, leading to DHL leaving .be and the loss of several thousand jobs. Thanks for nothing.



  • Wow.



  • @Xyro said:

    Wow.

    Yeah, at this point, I'm going to just assume there's no such thing as a creationist national park.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Xyro said:
    Wow.
    Yeah, at this point, I'm going to just assume there's no such thing as a creationist national park.

    Not in the US at least



  • @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @Xyro said:
    Wow.
    Yeah, at this point, I'm going to just assume there's no such thing as a creationist national park.

    Not in the US at least

    Yes, true. Either way:



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:
    Because the US gov does not expend money on crap, oh wait...

    Of course we do, but as I posted above (natch, you didn't read it), the crap we spend money on travels faster-than-sound then explodes.

    On the flip side, NASA also invented memory foam.

    Dunno what the rest of the thread is about. For me, the important thing about an election system is the results it brings. And the US voting system has certainly brought results.



  • @Valarnin said:

     There IS a difference between "English (UK)" and "English"... The latter is actually "English (US)", which has such differences as "Color" vs "Colour", or "Fuck" vs "Bugger"...

     

    As well as very important differences in the uses of word like "fanny". In my country a "fanny pack" is very different to what it is in the US.

    Doesn't the language setting in Facebook also affect dates? Personally, I don't care if "color" is "colour" but I do care if "5/7/11" is in May or July.



  • @havokk said:

    In my country a "fanny pack" is very different to what it is in the US.
     

    Hehe, that's why they are better called a "bum bag". Though if a female wears it on the front it is closer to the fanny.

    Though even NZ has different names for things compared to AU. Two we discussed last night was "box of beer" vs "carton of beer" and "chilly-bin" vs "esky" (which are actually genericised trademarks).



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @Xyro said:
    Wow.
    Yeah, at this point, I'm going to just assume there's no such thing as a creationist national park.

    Not in the US at least

    Yes, true. Either way:

    I'd say that getting tax breaks for an amusement park depicting dinosaurs and humans living together, and hence completely ignoring established evolutionary fact, is scamming the government. (Whether it's a national park or a theme park or your mom's park or whatever is irrelevant.) But I guess that since I'm not from a fromer Confederate state in America, my argument is invalid.



  •  @The_Assimilator said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @Xyro said:
    Wow.
    Yeah, at this point, I'm going to just assume there's no such thing as a creationist national park.

    Not in the US at least

    Yes, true. Either way:

    I'd say that getting tax breaks for an amusement park depicting dinosaurs and humans living together, and hence completely ignoring established evolutionary fact, is scamming the government. (Whether it's a national park or a theme park or your mom's park or whatever is irrelevant.) But I guess that since I'm not from a fromer Confederate state in America, my argument is invalid.

    Because there aren't any other amusement parks that depict things that don't match reality.  



  • @DescentJS said:

    @The_Assimilator said:
    I'd say that getting tax breaks for an amusement park depicting dinosaurs and humans living together, and hence completely ignoring established evolutionary fact, is scamming the government. (Whether it's a national park or a theme park or your mom's park or whatever is irrelevant.) But I guess that since I'm not from a fromer Confederate state in America, my argument is invalid.

    Because there aren't any other amusement parks that depict things that don't match reality.

    In particular, there are no science fiction themed amusement parks that depict things that completely ignore established physical fact. No science fiction movies do this either.



  • @DescentJS said:

    Because there aren't any other amusement parks that depict things that don't match reality.  

    There aren't any other amusement parks that depict things that don't match reality and present it as truth.



  • @Xyro said:

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!

    Just out of curiosity, did you have a point?



  • @toth said:

    @DescentJS said:
    Because there aren't any other amusement parks that depict things that don't match reality.  

    There aren't any other amusement parks that depict things that don't match reality and present it as truth.

    That's the point I was trying, and failing miserably, to make - thanks for the assist.



  • @toth said:

    @Xyro said:

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!

    Just out of curiosity, did you have a point?

    I'd say that getting tax breaks for an amusement park depicting anthropomorphic chocolate and humans living together, and hence completely ignoring established common sense, is scamming the government. (Whether it's a national park or a theme park or your mom's park or whatever is irrelevant.) But I guess that since I'm not a former diabetic, my argument is invalid.



  • Look, regardless of how stupid the amusement park is, the government giving tax breaks to things like stadiums, amusement parks, fairs etc is well-established. On the guise that those events "increase tourism" and bring in tax receipts. (What the government never does is check back 5 years later to see whether tax revenue actually increased as much as the businessman proposing the tax break said it would, but... eh.)

    That's night-and-day with a National Park that promotes Creationism. Which was the original retarded claim that was retarded. So while the US has dumb amusement parks, and gives tax breaks for dubious reasons, the UK is paying for homeopathic "medicines". (And undoubtedly also participating in tax breaks for dubious reasons.) So I say the US comes out ahead. USA! USA! USA!

    Also, we made Portal 2. The best games the UK produces is Tomb Raider. (And the UK is penalized for making Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, which sucked to an incredible degree.) Advantage: US.



  • @amischiefr said:

    Not to mention that the American Revolution started in 1776 and the French Revolution was from 1789–1799.  The words "All men are created equal" was penned and signed in the Declaration of Independence 13 years before the French Revolution even began, making his arguement completely retarded.
    And the US declaration of independence was totally spontaneous, of course ! Not at all inherited from all the 18th century's french philosophers work, of course !



  • @toshir0 said:

    @amischiefr said:

    Not to mention that the American Revolution started in 1776 and the French Revolution was from 1789–1799.  The words "All men are created equal" was penned and signed in the Declaration of Independence 13 years before the French Revolution even began, making his arguement completely retarded.
    And the US declaration of independence was totally spontaneous, of course ! Not at all inherited from all the 18th century's french philosophers work, of course !

    Well, if we're going to play it this way, then it's based on Greek philosophers' work, too. SO THE US IS GREEK!!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @toshir0 said:

    @amischiefr said:

    Not to mention that the American Revolution started in 1776 and the French Revolution was from 1789–1799.  The words "All men are created equal" was penned and signed in the Declaration of Independence 13 years before the French Revolution even began, making his arguement completely retarded.
    And the US declaration of independence was totally spontaneous, of course ! Not at all inherited from all the 18th century's french philosophers work, of course !

    Well, if we're going to play it this way, then it's based on Greek philosophers' work, too. SO THE US IS GREEK!!

    Well, college fraternities are a big American tradition so...



  • @The_Assimilator said:

    @galgorah said:

    @Xyro said:

    This thread is useless without Morbs :(

    He still logs in from time to time.  I *Can* text him. But if you really want him to appear you will most likely need to get on your hands and knees and beg, followed by chanting his name 3 times while staring in your bathroom mirror.

    Why'd he stop visiting TDWTF anyway? Did we bore him too much?

    Mostly due to lack of time.  He started a new job a while back and its kept him rather busy.


  • @Xyro said:

    @toth said:
    @Xyro said:

    So do sports stadiums. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF SPORTS AND STATE!!

    So does Hershey Park, the best chocolate theme park in Pennsylvania. VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CANDY AND STATE!!

    Just out of curiosity, did you have a point?

    I'd say that getting tax breaks for an amusement park depicting anthropomorphic chocolate and humans living together, and hence completely ignoring established common sense, is scamming the government. (Whether it's a national park or a theme park or your mom's park or whatever is irrelevant.) But I guess that since I'm not a former diabetic, my argument is invalid.

    You could have just said "No, I didn't have a point."



  • @toth said:

    You could have just said "No, I didn't have a point."

    I don't understand why you don't understand, but nevertheless, the point is basically as Blakey said [url=#252661]up here[/url].



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:
    So let us call it pseudo democracy, not democracy, and rename the democratic party into the pseudo democratic party.
    [W]e don't call it a "democracy" except in the loosest sense of the word. (i.e. we aren't pedantic dickweeds about it.) We call it a Federal Republic. That said, I believe it's safe to say each State is a Democracy, making the Federal Government the "Republic" part... seems like a pretty good description to me.
    The States are each supposed to have “republican forms of government” as well. The difference is in the source of authority: is it the Will of the People (democracy) or a defined (explicitly or implicitly) charter? Also relevant:@Marvin Simkin said:
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @jcsalomon said:

    Also relevant bollocks and not entirely relevant:@Marvin Simkin said:
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb
    voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain
    rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
    What about a well-armed sheep? Or a democracy with more than three voters? The metaphor is apt in some situations, but throwing it out as your first post? You're having a girraffe.



  • @PJH said:

    @jcsalomon said:
    Also relevant bollocks and not entirely relevant:@Marvin Simkin said:
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb
    voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain
    rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
    What about a well-armed sheep? Or a democracy with more than three voters? The metaphor is apt in some situations, but throwing it out as your first post? You're having a girraffe.

    What if it's like the sheep in Worms and it explodes? Huh! Then the wolves will be dead, and there will be no government at all! And in the chaos caused by the sudden anarchy, the rest of the (hypothetical, but let's assume they're there) animals will create a new system like the one in Invader Zim where the tallest person rules, and the giraffes will take over. And then you'll be sorry!



  • @The_Assimilator said:

    I'd say that getting tax breaks for an amusement park depicting dinosaurs and humans living together, and hence completely ignoring established evolutionary fact, is scamming the government. (Whether it's a national park or a theme park or your mom's park or whatever is irrelevant.) But I guess that since I'm not from a fromer Confederate state in America, my argument is invalid.

    Man, I went looking for a link to the Flintstones park in Cilliwack, BC... but it's long gone now...

    now I'm sad...[



  • @Xyro said:

    @toth said:
    You could have just said "No, I didn't have a point."

    I don't understand why you don't understand, but nevertheless, the point is basically as Blakey said up here.

    Stadiums generally don't proselytize religion, though.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @toth said:

    Stadiums generally don't proselytize religion, though.

    I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or Fenway Park?



  • @PJH said:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40460324/ns/us_news-life/
    A full-scale replica of Noah's Ark will be the biggest feature of a creationism-themed amusement park expected to open in 2014 in northern Kentucky

    $150m.

    Oh, so they finally found Noah's building blue prints? I suppose it will have stalls and boxes for two of each species on the planet? Do they include a pair of de dodo or the great alk? The mammoth?



  • @RogerWilco said:

    @PJH said:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40460324/ns/us_news-life/
    A full-scale replica of Noah's Ark will be the biggest feature of a creationism-themed amusement park expected to open in 2014 in northern Kentucky

    $150m.

    Oh, so they finally found Noah's building blue prints? I suppose it will have stalls and boxes for two of each species on the planet? Do they include a pair of de dodo or the great alk? The mammoth?
     

    Well, the specs provided by the original customer can be found in Genesis 6:14-17, though they're woefully incomplete and fail to address several of the more important issues involved in the project. Never seen a customer requirement like that before...

    THE PRECEDING PARAGRAPH MIGHT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR BLASPHEMY



  • @Someone You Know said:

    Well, the specs provided by the original customer can be found in Genesis 6:14-17, though they're woefully incomplete and fail to address several of the more important issues involved in the project. Never seen a customer requirement like that before...

    THE PRECEDING PARAGRAPH MIGHT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR BLASPHEMY


    <Bill Cosby>
    What's a cubit?
    </Bill Cosby>



  • @too_many_usernames said:

    What's a cubit?



  • @RogerWilco said:

    Oh, so they finally found Noah's building blue prints? I suppose it will have stalls and boxes for two of each species on the planet? Do they include a pair of de dodo or the great alk? The mammoth?
     

     

    Don't forget the dinosaurs. After all, humans and dinosaurs did both exist at the same time in the last six thousand years (the age of the planet according to a relative of mine).



  • @havokk said:

    @RogerWilco said:

    Oh, so they finally found Noah's building blue prints? I suppose it will have stalls and boxes for two of each species on the planet? Do they include a pair of de dodo or the great alk? The mammoth?
     

     

    Don't forget the dinosaurs. After all, humans and dinosaurs did both exist at the same time in the last six thousand years (the age of the planet according to a relative of mine).

     Yes, but these guys 'theory' is that the dinosaurs went extinct precisely because they didn't get berths on the Ark...



  • @havokk said:

    Don't forget the dinosaurs.
     

    They didn't make it.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @too_many_usernames said:
    What's a cubit?


    You really should consider trying to find a way to hear the Cosby [i]Noah[/i] sketch before poor QBert there accidentally logs in to some secret database with his trademark exclamations.



  • @dhromed said:

    @havokk said:

    Don't forget the dinosaurs.
     

    They didn't make it.

    Yes, but they did die heroically saving us all.  We owe it to them to remember.


  • @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:
    This is bullshit, I know it, you know it, I won't even bother with examples and statistics on how wrong this statement is.
    It's a philosophical statement, so I don't see what statistics have to do with its "wrongness." I would appreciate an explanation, though, if you have one.

    Ok, from a purely philosophical view, that is correct, except is not american concept.  Have you heard about the French Revolution?  The wrongness start when we put to practice that statement.

     

    The American revolution happened before the French, you ignoramus.  Plus, the French didn't (and probably still don't) believe in the rest of that idea as it is entered in the Declaration: "and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."  The French revolution was atheistic and by default that means that human rights come from men.  This was reflected in what came next.




  • @serguey123 said:

    @Xyro said:

    @serguey123 said:
    Let us see, example of scam hmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)
    How exactly is that scam? Because it gives more representational power to smaller states...? I kind of like it that way.

    You don't see a contradiction between a so called democracy that empower some citizens more than other? Ok.

     

    It empowers legislative divisions, the states-- not the citizens.  And that's why it's called a republic, which is a subtype of democracy.



  • @operagost said:

    And that's why it's called a republic, which is a subtype of democracy.
     

    Republics aren't a subtype of democracy.  America is a democratic republic, which is why people get the two types confused.



  • @toshir0 said:

    @amischiefr said:

    Not to mention that the American Revolution started in 1776 and the French Revolution was from 1789–1799.  The words "All men are created equal" was penned and signed in the Declaration of Independence 13 years before the French Revolution even began, making his arguement completely retarded.
    And the US declaration of independence was totally spontaneous, of course ! Not at all inherited from all the 18th century's french philosophers work, of course !

     

    The original post said something like, "heard of the French Revolution", not French philosophy.  As if the violent, oppressive, chaotic French revolution that devolved into a dictatorship was anything to be proud of.



  • @operagost said:

    As if the violent, oppressive, chaotic French revolution that devolved into a dictatorship was anything to be proud of.

    It brought us the Guillotine, and that thing's pretty badass.



  • @operagost said:

    @serguey123 said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:
    This is bullshit, I know it, you know it, I won't even bother with examples and statistics on how wrong this statement is.
    It's a philosophical statement, so I don't see what statistics have to do with its "wrongness." I would appreciate an explanation, though, if you have one.

    Ok, from a purely philosophical view, that is correct, except is not american concept.  Have you heard about the French Revolution?  The wrongness start when we put to practice that statement.

     

    The American revolution happened before the French, you ignoramus.  Plus, the French didn't (and probably still don't) believe in the rest of that idea as it is entered in the Declaration: "and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."  The French revolution was atheistic and by default that means that human rights come from men.  This was reflected in what came next.


    Oh, I know which happened first, my point was that the french revolution was an example of a good idea gone bad and that the pure philosophical idea was not american so...


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