Good old Europe



  • expanded slightly

    [URL=http://img31.imageshack.us/i/europet.png/][IMG]http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3037/europet.png[/IMG][/URL]

    [URL=http://plextor.com/]Plextor :-([/URL]

     


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

     Those are market zones.

    Calling Russia an Asian nation is pretty disingenuous, since damn near everybody lives east of the Urals (which is where Europe ends and Asia begins). Plextor therefore has chosen to give Russia to their European division because it doesn't merit its own division. Yes, it looks funny on a map - but also note that AFRICA is part of the European division, and is most decidedly NOT part of Europe in any way. You are not choosing a geographical area on that map, you are choosing a corporate territory.

     

    Yes, this is a soviet-era map. I can't find an up-to-date one that's actually a JPG.

     

    ED: overflow:scroll -btk



  • I could sort of understand Plextor's logic up to the point where the Middle East is NOT part of 'Europe.' For most suppliers I've worked with, the usual 'zone' is EMEA (Europe, Middle East, and Africa). Obviously Plextor prefers to lump the Middle East in with 'Asia' rather than 'Europe.' Whether this is just to be 'different,' I don't know, but it just looks plain weird, given that EMEA is kind of a de-facto 'standard' zone that many people understand.



  • Damn, they weren't supposed to reveal the secret plan yet!




  • @Cad Delworth said:

    Obviously Plextor prefers to lump the Middle East in with 'Asia' rather than 'Europe.'
     

    Duh.  Ever hear of "Asia Minor"?



  • @da Doctah said:

    Duh.  Ever hear of "Asia Minor"?

    If the middle east is part of Asia, how come Israel gets to compete in the Eurovision song contest?  Explain that if you can, Dr Smartypants.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Iago said:

    If the middle east is part of Asia, how come Israel gets to compete in the Eurovision song contest?  Explain that if you can, Dr Smartypants.
    Because Israel only exists because of a European exodus, and Europe feels really guilty about one of the driving forces behind that exodus.



  • @Weng said:

    @Iago said:

    If the middle east is part of Asia, how come Israel gets to compete in the Eurovision song contest?  Explain that if you can, Dr Smartypants.
    Because Israel only exists because of a European exodus, and Europe feels really guilty about one of the driving forces behind that exodus.

    I'd love to know what the caused the guilt that has resulted in Europe perpetrating the Eurovision song contest in the first place!



  • @da Doctah said:

    @Cad Delworth said:

    Obviously Plextor prefers to lump the Middle East in with 'Asia' rather than 'Europe.'
     

    Duh.  Ever hear of "Asia Minor"?

    I've not only heard of it, I've noticed that Plextor placed it in Europe.

    I find it hard to be surprised by the way Shinano Kenshi is organised, but having a few small boxes for the mouseover thing was definitely a bad move.



  • @__moz said:

    @da Doctah said:
    @Cad Delworth said:
    Obviously Plextor prefers to lump the Middle East in with 'Asia' rather than 'Europe.'
     Duh.  Ever hear of "Asia Minor"?
    I've not only heard of it, I've noticed that Plextor placed it in Europe.

    It's all a bit of a moot point, because if you look under Europe, it doesn't seem to mention either Africa, Russia or the Middle East at all.

    So they could just as easily have lumped it in with Taiwan.



  • Btw, their imagemap is also misaligned a bit...



  • @Iago said:

    @da Doctah said:

    Duh.  Ever hear of "Asia Minor"?

    If the middle east is part of Asia, how come Israel gets to compete in the Eurovision song contest?  Explain that if you can, Dr Smartypants.

     

    As Yoda never quite said, but I'm sure would have had it occurred to him: "Ohhh, Smartypants!  Pants not make one smart".



  • @OzPeter said:

    I'd love to know what the caused the guilt that has resulted in Europe perpetrating the Eurovision song contest in the first place!
     

    Like, Europe keyed Israel's car or something.



  • @OzPeter said:

    I'd love to know what the caused the guilt that has resulted in Europe perpetrating the Eurovision song contest in the first place!


    Not guilt: The ESC was started in about 1956 (I forget the precise date) by the EBU (European Broadcasting Union) as a Europe-wide live showcase for the fact that TV could, for the first time, be simultaneously broadcast all across the continent, from the UK in the West to (IIRC) Italy and Malta in the East. It just seems that no-one has bothered to stop it since!



  • @Cad Delworth said:

    Not guilt: The ESC was started in about 1956 (I forget the precise date) by the EBU (European Broadcasting Union) as a Europe-wide live showcase for the fact that TV could, for the first time, be simultaneously broadcast all across the continent, from the UK in the West to (IIRC) Italy and Malta in the East. It just seems that no-one has bothered to stop it since!

    Europe is so adorable.





  • @b-redeker said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Filed under: <font color="#698d73">I suppose</font>, <font color="#698d73">Awful music is better than shoot each other</font>

    I take it you've never watched it?

    Only what I see on YouTube!

    But I don't the song's catchiness interfere with my nationalist trolling. Mind in the game, man, mind in the game!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @b-redeker said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Filed under: <FONT color=#698d73>I suppose</FONT>, <FONT color=#698d73>Awful music is better than shoot each other</FONT>

    I take it you've never watched it?

    Only what I see on YouTube!

    But I don't the song's catchiness interfere with my nationalist trolling. Mind in the game, man, mind in the game!

    The epic suckiness of some of the songs has to be experienced to be believed. Disclaimer: do not click this. Seriously.



  • @b-redeker said:

    The epic suckiness of some of the songs has to be experienced to be believed. Disclaimer: do not click this. Seriously.

    That's surreal. Frightening. Is the "audience" all performers? Or do real Netherlandish people act like badly-built animatronics when at live music shows?

    Why is Lena (the German performer) singing in English? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Or do real Netherlandish people act like badly-built animatronics when at live music shows?
     

    BZZZT CLICK

    DOES NOT COM PUTE

    WHIRRRR THUNK

    PLAY SONG Y/N

    >_




  • @b-redeker said:

    The epic suckiness of some of the songs has to be experienced to be believed. Disclaimer: do not click this. Seriously.


    I didn't think that Sieneke song was so bad. But that (was it Estonian?) song that won a year or two back—Fairytale it was called—now THAT sucked. And blew. And then sucked again. FWIW, I think the best ever Eurovision song was Ding-A-Dong by Teach-In. And yes, I do prefer that song to ABBA's contest-winning worldwide hit Waterloo.



  • @Cad Delworth said:

    I didn't think that Sieneke song was so bad. But that (was it Estonian?) song that won a year or two back—Fairytale it was called—now THAT sucked. And blew. And then sucked again.

    That was Norway. Although Rybak sings excruciatingly bad, I still like it better than that awful Netherlands danceband cheese.



  • @Cad Delworth said:

    @b-redeker said:

    The epic suckiness of some of the songs has to be experienced to be believed. Disclaimer: do not click this. Seriously.

    I didn't think that Sieneke song was so bad. But that (was it Estonian?) song that won a year or two back—Fairytale it was called—now THAT sucked. And blew. And then sucked again. FWIW, I think the best ever Eurovision song was Ding-A-Dong by Teach-In. And yes, I do prefer that song to ABBA's contest-winning worldwide hit Waterloo.

    The depth of your knowledge in these matters is a little scary.



  • @b-redeker said:

    @Cad Delworth said:

    @b-redeker said:

    The epic suckiness of some of the songs has to be experienced to be believed. Disclaimer: do not click this. Seriously.

    I didn't think that Sieneke song was so bad. But that (was it Estonian?) song that won a year or two back—Fairytale it was called—now THAT sucked. And blew. And then sucked again. FWIW, I think the best ever Eurovision song was Ding-A-Dong by Teach-In. And yes, I do prefer that song to ABBA's contest-winning worldwide hit Waterloo.

    The depth of your knowledge in these matters is a little scary.

    He fails by excluding the YouTube link. Also in English, go figure.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @b-redeker said:

    The depth of your knowledge in these matters is a little scary.

    He fails by excluding the YouTube link. Also in English, go figure.

    In this case I know the story: the song was originally in Dutch. Back then you had to sing in [one of your national languages], but when they won, they sang the English version. Later it was allowed to sing in English during the contest (so smaller countries also have sort of a chance). I think btw this was the last time the Dutch won (or even ended in the top 10).



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Why is Lena (the German performer) singing in English? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

    It makes the playing field more fair. By using a language understood by most people, you make it possible for the majority of viewers to understand the lyrics, and they can take these into account when voting - the quality of a song might be ruined by its lyrics, or it might be improved. If you sing in your own language, voters can only judge your song by the melody and singing ability. Sure, that's a big part of what makes a song good, but there's that bit extra which you might be missing out on, and that could end up costing you the victory. Consequently, many entries get sung in English - at least in the actual contest; sometimes the songs are translated from the native language once selected to represent the nation (which sometimes ruins the song completely).

    It hasn't always been like this - although there were no language restrictions in the first ESC, in 1966, they added a rule stating that you had to sing in a national language of the country you represented. The rule was then removed in 1973, reinstated in 1977, and finally removed again in 1999, presumably for good this time.

    As to whether or not it defeats the point - not really. Lyrics and melody play a big role in representing the music of your country; language, not so much, especially since in many countries, popular music does not restrict itself to the national language anyway, which is, at least in part, related to the possibility of expanding to other countries: I've seen a Japanese band have success with one of their songs in Germany (despite singing in Japanese!), and I've seen a German band translate one of their songs to three other languages: English, French and Japanese. This sort of thing is not unique to countries where English is a secondary language: Sixpence None The Richer translated their song Kiss Me to Japanese.

    Anyway, Satellite was originally written by an American woman and a Danish man back in 2007, and it wasn't meant for Eurovision back then - so it was originally in English, and I believe the song would very likely have been ruined if they'd translated it to German.



  • @Pidgeot said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Why is Lena (the German performer) singing in English? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

    It makes the playing field more fair. By using a language understood by most people,

    But is that true? I mean there's the Brits, of course, but population-wise they aren't the way to go, and I get the distinct sense that very few European countries require the teaching of English. (At least, when I was in Europe a dozen years back or so, approximately 0 people spoke English in France or Germany. Or maybe they were just being dicks to the tourist...) Seems like (statistically) German would appeal to the most Euro-vision listeners, yes?

    @Pidgeot said:

    This sort of thing is not unique to countries where English is a secondary language: Sixpence None The Richer translated their song Kiss Me to Japanese.

    Fixed that for you.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    approximately 0 people spoke English in France or Germany

    Both seem to be rapidly changing. Years of American tourists simply shouting harder and harder to make themselves understood has finally paid off.

    English these days is the common speech of the youth; the German and French I learned now rendered useless (well... you still get better service). Even Italians and the Greek speak English these days (often very well too). Gone are the times when I had to speak Italian in an Italian police station because there was simply no officer who spoke English).

    Your point about German/statistics is interesting, but German is in most countries a) rather uncool or even b) despised. History and things.



  • @b-redeker said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    approximately 0 people spoke English in France or Germany

    Both seem to be rapidly changing. Years of American tourists simply shouting harder and harder to make themselves understood has finally paid off.

    Told you it would work!

    @b-redeker said:

    Gone are the times when I had to speak Italian in an Italian police station because there was simply no officer who spoke English

    Do you often get arrested in Italy?

    @b-redeker said:

    Your point about German/statistics is interesting, but German is in most countries a) rather uncool or even b) despised. History and things.

    Maybe they should pick a different language each year, and require the songs be sung in it. Or just always sing in Esperanto...



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @b-redeker said:
    Gone are the times when I had to speak Italian in an Italian police station because there was simply no officer who spoke English
    Do you often get arrested in Italy?

    When in Rome...



  • The best* parts of the Eurovision Song Contest are:

       1) Terry Wogan's commentary; and
       2) The hilariously nationalistic voting

     

    *Depending on your definition of 'best'



  • @RTapeLoadingError said:

       2) The hilariously nationalistic voting

    For certain values of nationalistic I guess, given that you cannot vote for your own country.



  •  Is "nationalistic" not the word I'm looking for?

     I.e. Greece votes for Cyprus but not Turkey;  Sweden votes for Norway;  No-one votes for UK.

     



  • @RTapeLoadingError said:

     Is "nationalistic" not the word I'm looking for?

     I.e. Greece votes for Cyprus but not Turkey;  Sweden votes for Norway;  No-one votes for UK.

    I think the word is "nepotism". In Greek this translates to "Business as usual".



  • @blakeyrat said:

    But is that true? I mean there's the Brits, of course, but population-wise they aren't the way to go, and I get the distinct sense that very few European countries require the teaching of English. (At least, when I was in Europe a dozen years back or so, approximately 0 people spoke English in France or Germany. Or maybe they were just being dicks to the tourist...)

    I think it's a side effect of globalization. Communication across borders is more and more important these days, but in order for that to work, you need to speak a common language. Historically, the people you'd be talking to would often be your neighbors, because it wasn't as easy to get in touch with countries beyond that, so that naturally limited the language pool you might have to choose from, and for many countries, English was not really one of those languages.

    As technology improved, it became more relevant to communicate with people that are much further away, and this creates the need for a lingua franca. For whatever reason, this ended up being English, and so this suddenly made it more relevant to learn English as well.

    That change has only happened fairly recently, so many people, especially the older generation or people living in rural areas, are not as likely to have learnt English - they never had a need for it. In modern society, however, that's changing, and it's becoming harder to get by without any knowledge of English.

    The situation is somewhat worse in France, Germany and Spain (maybe Italy as well). I believe this is because they are large countries with a lot of people; this makes them more capable of fending for themselves, which reduces the need to communicate with the outside world. Even so, I believe the situation is changing rapidly to accomodate for the modern society. Other countries, e.g. all of Scandinavia, place much more emphasis on English, because it's more necessary.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Seems like (statistically) German would appeal to the most Euro-vision listeners, yes?
     

    If we were only considering Western Europe, German probably isn't a bad choice, but many Eastern European countries take part as well, and they are unlikely to speak German there (and that's just considering participating countries, rather than including countries which broadcast the contest but cannot participate). Since you have to get votes from *many* countries, you have to consider the languages spoken in them as a whole, and looking at all of the participating countries as a whole, English is really your best bet.

    @RTapeLoadingError said:

      1) Terry Wogan's commentary; and

    A shame he hasn't been the UK commentator since 2008, then.

    @RTapeLoadingError said:

     Is "nationalistic" not the word I'm looking for?

     I.e. Greece votes for Cyprus but not Turkey;  Sweden votes for Norway;  No-one votes for UK.

    Yes, regional block voting certainly happens, and there's nothing new about that. There are many reasons for this, but it doesn't appear to skew the results significantly, so it's not as bad as one might think.

    And to be fair, UK haven't exactly been delivering quality performances all of the time. (Hey, at least you scored 5th in 2009.)



  • @Pidgeot said:

    A shame he hasn't been the UK commentator since 2008, then.
     

    I stopped watching it when I moved to Australia in 2005 so perhaps I should have said...

    @Revised throwaway comment about Eurovision said:


    The best* parts of the Eurovision Song Contest were**:

       1) Terry Wogan's commentary; and
       2) The hilariously nationalistic*** voting****

    Depending on your definition of 'best'
    * I stopped watching it when I moved to Australia in 2005
    *** Although I possibly mean 'nepotistic'
    **** I concede that this possibly does not skew the result in any meaningful way

     

     



  • @Weng said:

    ... since damn near everybody lives east of the Urals (which is where Europe ends and Asia begins).

    Did you mean to say West, or am I just reading that heatmap really badly?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I get the distinct sense that very few European countries require the teaching of English. (At least, when I was in Europe a dozen years back or so, approximately 0 people spoke English in France or Germany. Or maybe they were just being dicks to the tourist...)
     

    Ever been to Dutchland?

    Nearly everybody speaks English here.

    We are dicks to tourists using well-formed English sentences.

    Bonus: sam of as sount kaint of laik Goltmember wen wie doe it.



  • @dhromed said:

    Bonus: sam of as sount kaint of laik Goltmember wen wie doe it.

    sjam of asj sjount kaint of laik Koltmember wen wie doewit.

    FTFY



  • @bjolling said:

    sjam
     

    Although nobody actually says "sj" instead of "s"



  • @dhromed said:

    @bjolling said:

    sjam
     

    Although nobody actually says "sj" instead of "s"

    Amshterdam. But no actual people live there, only sex-workers, writers and tv people.



  •  I hate Amsterdam.



  • @dhromed said:

     I hate Amsterdam.

    Unfair competition toward your diversified portfolio?



  •  I don't know what you mean.



  • @b-redeker said:

    @dhromed said:

    @bjolling said:

    sjam
     

    Although nobody actually says "sj" instead of "s"

    Amshterdam. But no actual people live there, only sex-workers, writers and tv people.

    Indeed. Even a Scot like me knows there is no such sound as "sh" in spoken Nederlands. It really annoys me when comedians doing a so-called comedy Dutch accent invariably get this wrong, saying things like "Thish ish my partner Ton, he ish REAL great in bed with our gay shexsh!" and similar inaccurate rubbish. And at least, unlike the British undercover agents during WW2 ;), I can pronounce "Scheveningen" correctly! ("ss-HAY-vn-ing'n" is about the closest I can write it down, since I don't write IPA)


  • @dhromed said:

     I don't know what you mean.

    I asume this is directed at me, perhaps I needed to quote better.

    @b-redeker said:

    Amshterdam. But no actual people live there, only sex-workers, writers and tv people.

    @serguey123 said:

    @dhromed said:

     I hate Amsterdam.

    Unfair competition toward your diversified portfolio?

    I don't like quoting myself and trying to explain unfunny jokes but I was trying to imply that you hated Amsterdam because you where in the same line of work as the people there (leaning heavily toward sex worker due to previous post about how "hard" is the economy and how some IT people are treated worse than sex workers) and the competition was "hard".

    Oh well



  • @Cad Delworth said:

    It really annoys me when comedians doing a so-called comedy Dutch accent invariably get this wrong
    The only excuse I can think of is that people in the media (whether it be Comedians, or Hollywood or even the news) rely on stereotypes in order to set the "action/mood/location" etc. Even if the stereotypes have no basis in reality the audience uses them to connect to the media. I have a whole list of pet peaves from accents to car wheels screaching on dirt roads etc that I have almost given up on evert seeing correctly portrayed.



  • @OzPeter said:

    @Cad Delworth said:
    It really annoys me when comedians doing a so-called comedy Dutch accent invariably get this wrong
    The only excuse I can think of is that people in the media (whether it be Comedians, or Hollywood or even the news) rely on stereotypes in order to set the "action/mood/location" etc. Even if the stereotypes have no basis in reality the audience uses them to connect to the media. I have a whole list of pet peaves from accents to car wheels screaching on dirt roads etc that I have almost given up on evert seeing correctly portrayed.

    Yup. Same reason they put lens flares in CGI movies. By making it look slightly more "fake" you can trick people into thinking it's more "real".

    This can backfire, though. The bullet pinging sounds that were considered "real" back in the 60s sound ridiculous now-- which really cuts onto serious movies made when that convention was being phased out, like Tora! Tora! Tora!



  • @Cad Delworth said:

    Even a Scot like me knows there is no such sound as "sh" in spoken Nederlands.

    There's not? Then I've always pronounced Sjakie en de Chocoladefabriek wrong, apparently. Thanks for pointing that out!



  • @Pidgeot said:

    The situation is somewhat worse in France, Germany and Spain (maybe Italy as well). I believe this is because they are large countries with a lot of people; this makes them more capable of fending for themselves, which reduces the need to communicate with the outside world. Even so, I believe the situation is changing rapidly to accomodate for the modern society. Other countries, e.g. all of Scandinavia, place much more emphasis on English, because it's more necessary.

    We can speak English, it's proven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWB5oyIjSF0


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