That Explains It...



  • Did anyone notice that, as a registered user, TDWTF was a bit slow? Not super-duper slow, but like, 200ms load times?

    Well turns out, there was a good reason. Community server (which, is used as the UserName store for the main site) half-uses some framework from Microsoft called ASPNET Membership. Or something.

    The aspnet_membership table (which has userId and password) did not index UserID, and the aspnet_user table (which has userid, user name, email, and other profile fields) did not index on User Name. Displaying your user name ("Welcome, Alex Papadimoulis" in the top right) required a full-table scan of two fairly large tables.

    Pick TRWTF: ASPNET Membership (for not index properly), CS (for not noticing it, or for half-using it, or for un-indexing it), or me (for using CS and/or not noticing this earlier).

    Oh, who I am I kidding... we all know TRWTF=CS!



  • Is there any real reason for still using CS? Surely, there must be another software package that does the same thing, but is still maintained and isn't shitty.



  • @pkmnfrk said:

    Is there any real reason for still using CS? Surely, there must be another software package that does the same thing, but is still maintained and isn't shitty.
    SSDS?



  • Time and effort to switch > 0.

    It's "on the list" but it's pretty hard to find time to research, figure out how to switch, migrate data, map old URLs (who likes broken URLS?), etc.

    The main site isn't as much a problem (all custom code), but the forums will be a major pain.



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    Time and effort to switch > 0.

    It's "on the list" but it's pretty hard to find time to research, figure out how to switch, migrate data, map old URLs (who likes broken URLS?), etc.

    The main site isn't as much a problem (all custom code), but the forums will be a major pain.

    See, now you're just tempting me to write about my experiences building on bad webapp frameworks. ;)



  • You have legions of disgruntled fans.  Give them clear goals and put them to work.  A quick googling for "community server export" shows some promise, and I'm sure that, for whatever platform you decide to switch too, you'll find someone experienced enough to help you import to it.



  • Not bad. Now it only takes me 4.8 seconds instead of 5 to download the tags open a thread.



  • @Rhamphoryncus said:

    You have legions of disgruntled fans.  Give them clear goals and put them to work.  A quick googling for "community server export" shows some promise, and I'm sure that, for whatever platform you decide to switch too, you'll find someone experienced enough to help you import to it.
     

    You can simply convert all of the exported data to XML. I heard that it's a superior new format - it could be very useful here! And it has "namespaces", so you can even embed the link to your site at the top and put your own name before the tags - pretty cool, eh?



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    Time and effort to switch > 0.

    It's "on the list" but it's pretty hard to find time to research, figure out how to switch, migrate data, map old URLs (who likes broken URLS?), etc.

    The main site isn't as much a problem (all custom code), but the forums will be a major pain.

    DUDE -- Just slap on a couple of friggin' indexes!!!


  •  Don't ditch CS - half the fun on this forum shows up as a result. What would we do without Signature Guy, absurd numbers of non-sequiturta.. non-sequiturta.. non-sequitur tags, andpos... and posts saying, "TRWTF is community server"?



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    Did anyone notice that, as a registered user, TDWTF was a bit slow? Not super-duper slow, but like, 200ms load times?

    Well turns out, there was a good reason. Community server<snip>

    All you had to say really. And that's this month's CS bashing quota filled.



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    Did anyone notice that, as a registered user, TDWTF was a bit slow? Not super-duper slow, but like, 200ms load times?
     

    It's slow because it loads 700KB of tag data on every fucking thread.

    That index is not going to help one iota.

    How in the heck are you not warp-speeding straight by your hosts' traffic limits?



  • @viraptor said:

    @Rhamphoryncus said:

    You have legions of disgruntled fans.  Give them clear goals and put them to work.  A quick googling for "community server export" shows some promise, and I'm sure that, for whatever platform you decide to switch too, you'll find someone experienced enough to help you import to it.
     

    You can simply convert all of the exported data to XML. I heard that it's a superior new format - it could be very useful here! And it has "namespaces", so you can even embed the link to your site at the top and put your own name before the tags - pretty cool, eh?

    Obviously I've made a fatal error in understanding the motivations of those legions of disgruntled fans...



  • I've also recently discovered that it loads all those hundreds of KB of tags into the HTTP header during a POST, too.  Awesome.

    Also, right now I can't post a reply to Swampy's thread.  :(  I've had something to tell him since yesterday, but every time I've tried to post, I get an oops message.  But somehow, Spenk is able it post...

    Many people have recommended this in the past, and I would totally support a TDWTF-community-based effort to rewrite our own forum software.  I'd learn .NET just to contribute.  Set up a new virtual server to host the ongoing results and give a few of us database/server access and elect a few organizers/leaders.  I think we could come up with something marvelous!



  • Meh, all this void talk of We'll build it ourselves!

    Another forum I frequent has Vanilla. It has its share of oddities, as any software does, but on the whole it's zippy and simple. Awesome feature includes auto-scroll to the latest post/page of a thread since you least read it. +1 for that. It also has a similar awesome quoting feature, where you select some text and hit Quote.

     

    It's php, though, but it really does have benefits, such as REDUCING SERVER LOAD BY 90% (ASS-FIGURE)



  •  Wow, you weren't kidding... this page is 580 KB when downloaded.... 

    what the .... 

     



  •  You forgot to add some witty tags.



  •  @Rhamphoryncus said:

    You have legions of disgruntled fans.  Give them clear goals and put them to work.  A quick googling for "community server export" shows some promise, and I'm sure that, for whatever platform you decide to switch too, you'll find someone experienced enough to help you import to it.

    +1

     I'm convinced you can find a couple regulars willing to chip in some free time. Or even work time.



  • @viraptor said:

    @Rhamphoryncus said:

    You have legions of disgruntled fans.  Give them clear goals and put them to work.  A quick googling for "community server export" shows some promise, and I'm sure that, for whatever platform you decide to switch too, you'll find someone experienced enough to help you import to it.
     

    You can simply convert all of the exported data to XML. I heard that it's a superior new format - it could be very useful here! And it has "namespaces", so you can even embed the link to your site at the top and put your own name before the tags - pretty cool, eh?

     

     

    ObMeme:

    Get several wooden tables.  Print out all of the existing articles and comments.   Place each page on a separate wooden table, photograph, then scan in to the new forum software.  Profit!!  Brillant!



  • @dhromed said:

    It's slow because it loads 700KB of tag data on every fucking thread.

    That index is not going to help one iota.

    You're right, an index wouldn't help that.... but oh, oh.... I know what will!!!

    <FONT size=2>  DELETE cs_posts_incategories
      DELETE cs_post_categories_parents
      DELETE cs_post_categories
    </FONT>

    <FONT size=2>Maybe I should make this a scheduled job.

    </FONT>


  • @b-redeker said:

     @Rhamphoryncus said:

    You have legions of disgruntled fans.  Give them clear goals and put them to work.  A quick googling for "community server export" shows some promise, and I'm sure that, for whatever platform you decide to switch too, you'll find someone experienced enough to help you import to it.

    +1

     I'm convinced you can find a couple regulars willing to chip in some free time. Or even work time.

    Yes, the WTF irony would be MUCH more apparent if the forum's shittiness was actually created by WTF readers.



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    @dhromed said:

    It's slow because it loads 700KB of tag data on every fucking thread.

    That index is not going to help one iota.

    You're right, an index wouldn't help that.... but oh, oh.... I know what will!!!

    <font size="2">  DELETE cs_posts_incategories
      DELETE cs_post_categories_parents
      DELETE cs_post_categories
    </font>

    <font size="2">Maybe I should make this a scheduled job.</font>

    <font size="2"></font>

    Aw, at least keep a (running) couple month's worth.



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    @dhromed said:

    It's slow because it loads 700KB of tag data on every fucking thread.

    That index is not going to help one iota.

    You're right, an index wouldn't help that.... but oh, oh.... I know what will!!!

    <font size="2">  DELETE cs_posts_incategories
      DELETE cs_post_categories_parents
      DELETE cs_post_categories
    </font>

    <font size="2">Maybe I should make this a scheduled job.</font>

    NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo...  :(  All our witty parenthetical tags!  :'(

    Is it possible to just modify the outputting template so the HTML element which contains all the tags never gets generated?



  • @Xyro said:

    Is it possible to just modify the outputting template so the HTML element which contains all the tags never gets generated?

    This is Community Server. What do you think??

     



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    @Xyro said:

    Is it possible to just modify the outputting template so the HTML element which contains all the tags never gets generated?

    This is Community Server. What do you think??

     

     

    Maybe you can put them at the end, so that the loading doesn't interfere with the content.

    This would also delay the onload event, but you'll probably be reading for a few seconds before clicking anything, in which time the page completes.



  •  why are those even needed.... I guess when posting, to suggest tags... but you could use ajax to retrieve the list just when user actually clicks on the Reply button

     Could at least use gzip encoding to send the page compressed to users, saving bandwidth and making the pages feel snappier.

     

    /// i see they're gone now :)



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    <font size="2">  DELETE cs_posts_incategories
      DELETE cs_post_categories_parents
      DELETE cs_post_categories
    </font>

    <font size="2">Maybe I should make this a scheduled job.</font>

     

    Not sure if you meant this as a joke, but this could actually be a good idea. Are the tags neccessary? Do you know if people use them? (Other than the obligatory tag-spam-soup, of course...)



  • @aihtdikh said:

    Do you know if people use them?

    I did a SELECT TagName, COUNT(*) type query and found that the top tags were like "Breast Programming". I forget the rest... and obviously I can't check anymore.



  • @mariushm said:

     why are those even needed.... I guess when posting, to suggest tags... but you should use ajax to retrieve the list just when user actually clicks on the Reply button
     

    FTFY. This is exactly what Ajax was invented for. The current case is a prime example of how not to use tags.



  •  The top one is now conjugate (according to the new tag cloud). I like that.



  • @mariushm said:

     why are those even needed.... I guess when posting, to suggest tags...

    You can edit the tags on your posts from the thread page, without opening up the full editor. This is why the tags are included in the thread page — to make the tag autocomplete thing work when you do that.



  • @b-redeker said:

     The top one is now conjugate (according to the new tag cloud). I like that.

     

    You can blame dhromed for that.



  • Oh please don't ever change it!

    The DWTF just wouldn't be the DWTF without our beloved WTF-y CS.

    Who's with me?



  • @superjer said:

    Oh please don't ever change it!

    The DWTF just wouldn't be the DWTF without our beloved WTF-y CS.

    Who's with me?

    But I still can't post to Swampy's thread :(



  • @Someone You Know said:

    @b-redeker said:

     The top one is now conjugate (according to the new tag cloud). I like that.

     

    You can blame dhromed for that.

     

    I thought that was implied.



  •  AHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA



  • On the bright side, the forum's fast again.




  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    Did anyone notice that, as a registered user, TDWTF was a bit slow? Not super-duper slow, but like, 200ms load times?

     

     

    Alex, you may think that 200 ms load times aren't super-duper slow, but they were killing me!

    I remember the days when "www" really did stand for "world-wide wait".  

     When a AT&T 56k High-Speed connection was really about 1 or or 2k.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    You can edit the tags on your posts from the thread page, without opening up the full editor. This is why the tags are included in the thread page — to make the tag autocomplete thing work faster when you do that.

    FTFY.  

    You could do the same thing a little slower with less bandwidth usage and faster initial load times.

    Furthermore, in today's TDWTF, the tags only exist for abuse.  Nobody's searching for posts about Java or C# or The Atlantic Ocean and its inability to stop curses.  As such, they are assuredly already in the autocomplete for FF for the abusers (like me).

    Your point is still factual, but I think in Today's TDWTF, that feature of CS is just useless.  I shudder to think of the forum system where it is useful.  Maybe Boy Scout troop 673 has a CS forum or something?   Click on the tab for the Patriotism Merit Badge and you get all of Morb's posts where he details how to gut a middle eastern man in 60.4 seconds?



  • @belgariontheking said:

    in Today's post-9/11 TDWTF, that feature of CS is just useless.

     

    FTFY.


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