Dell Power supply



  • I saw a nice screen yesterday. The owner of that laptop had a broken Dell power supply. He bought a No-Name power supply (labeled "GPS"). As the power cord did not fit into the laptop he soldered the original cable to the new supply.

    The laptop starts and the following appeared

    [URL=http://img192.imageshack.us/i/dellpowersupply.jpg/][IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9674/dellpowersupply.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]

    The battery does not charge but the machine is working...



  • And the WTF is ... that the computer is actually able to communicate with the power supply?
    Or that "$brand sucks, here's a random thing with $brand"?

    Hm, maybe the WTF has been removed due to the crisis...



  • Standard Dell behavior, yeah... when there's no data link to the supply (yes, TRWTF is existance of such) it's not charging, even if the power feed is good enough to power up.



  • This sounds like the sort of shit Epson (used to?) pull with their printers - if you don't use Epson approved cartridge refills, the performance of the printer is sub-optimal (to the point of usually refusing to recognise the cartridges, thus not printing.)



  • I started to get this same damned message from my 18 month old Dell laptop using the power supply that came with the stupid thing.

    The battery used to charge anyway. 

    6 months later, I stopped getting the message, but the battery only holds a charge for 15 seconds.



  • @bannedfromcoding said:

    Standard Dell behavior, yeah... when there's no data link to the supply (yes, TRWTF is existance of such) it's not charging, even if the power feed is good enough to power up.
    I wouldn't call it so much of a wtf.  I'd rather the hardware talking with the batteries than the batteries exploding for having dumb controller logic. And it's not like there is a standard to lion battery design*.  Between the alternatives of not monitoring the battery and not letting it charge, the latter is much safer.



  • @hallo.amt said:

    As the power cord did not fit into the laptop he soldered the original cable to the new supply.

    Maybe that should've been a hint that he should stop being a cheapass bastard and buy a proper (i.e. Dell) replacement power supply.



  •  TRWTF(tm) is that he's using his GPS as a laptop power supply.



  • @Xyro said:

    @bannedfromcoding said:

    Standard Dell behavior, yeah... when there's no data link to the supply (yes, TRWTF is existance of such) it's not charging, even if the power feed is good enough to power up.
    I wouldn't call it so much of a wtf.  I'd rather the hardware talking with the batteries than the batteries exploding for having dumb controller logic. And it's not like there is a standard to lion battery design*.  Between the alternatives of not monitoring the battery and not letting it charge, the latter is much safer.


    What about having that in the batter Module which knows its batter much Beter than the Power supply ?



  • Power supplies are Not that complicated, you can take a cheapo as a spare. Usually without problems. At least that was my belief and it worked quite well with my laptop. The original supply semmed quite cheap.



  • @hallo.amt said:

    What about having that in the batter Module which knows its batter much Beter than the Power supply ?

    I think the hardware is having a hard time talking with the keyboard. Or the user.



  • I've gotten no-name power supplies for Dell laptops before, you just have to find one that markets itself as compatible with your existing one.

    Of course, there are sometimes other setbacks, such as one I used for a while that had a power cord that was only like a foot long.



  • @The_Assimilator said:

    @hallo.amt said:

    As the power cord did not fit into the laptop he soldered the original cable to the new supply.

    Maybe that should've been a hint that he should stop being a cheapass bastard and buy a proper (i.e. Dell) replacement power supply.

    Bingo.  What, is Dell supposed to support any shitty power supply you plug in?  I suppose the same people complaining about this would be okay after the batteries explode and burn their nuts off?  What happens if the shitty power supply fries the laptop?  Should Dell have to provide a replacement?  I mean, the user can just claim they were using the original power supply.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    Of course, there are sometimes other setbacks, such as one I used for a while that had a power cord that was only like a foot long
     

     So, you can get them for $5 at Subway?

     

    <sorry>



  • For a moment there, I thought your laptop was asking you to reset the power supply.

    "The power supply isn't communicating. Please turn it off and on again."

     



  • I suppose the same people complaining about this would be okay after the batteries explode and burn their nuts off?

    The power regulator and charge circuit are built into the laptop and more often nowadays the battery itself. The job of the PSU is to supply up to X watts at Y volts. Within reason, even a highly incompatible charger should work to a degree. You'd have to plug it into a much bigger charger to get the ampage required to heat up the machine enough to blow up a battery, and internal fuses should prevent it from getting into that state anyway. You will not blow up your batteries or burn your nuts off with a knock-off charger. You might blow a fuse or the power management IC though.

    I've been using a no-name PSU for my Eee now for a year without problems. If you can charge these things off the terribly unstable power given out by a cigarette lighter socket, you honestly think a duff PSU could mess things up?



  • Seems pretty smart to me.  My new Dell laptop will work on the charger from the previous laptop, but it pops up a message saying it would prefer to have a 90W supply and the battery will take longer to charge.

    A bigger WTF is my Blackberry.  It won't charge off USB unless it can talk to the USB hub and confirm that it's allowed to draw power.  It won't charge off the wall charger that came with the phone and it won't charge from a laptop unless the laptop has Vista or the Blackberry software installed.  This behaviour changed during the phone's life because it used to work off any supply with a compatible plug - something got updated in the firmware without my knowlege.  Other people in the office with the same Blackberry have the same problem starting at the same time.

    I recently came across some circuit diagrams that will persuade an iPod to charge off a "dumb" USB supply.  Depending on the iPod model, there were 4 different configurations of resistors to hold the data lines high or low to suit the preferences of that model.  Is Apple trying to prevent you from using an older charger on your new iPod?



  •  @nexekho said:

    The job of the PSU is to supply up to X watts at Y volts.

     

    I thought that the job of the PSU was to supply Dell with $X dollars every Y months, something which a third-party charger is incapable of doing.  It's only natural that Dell would build in protections against the user circumventing the primary purpose of all of their hardware.

     



  • @Qwerty said:

     changed during the phone's life because it used to work off any supply with a compatible plug - something got updated in the firmware without my knowlege.  Other people in the office with the same Blackberry have the same problem starting at the same time.

    I recently came across some circuit diagrams that will persuade an iPod to charge off a "dumb" USB supply.  Depending on the iPod model, there were 4 different configurations of resistors to hold the data lines high or low to suit the preferences of that model.  Is Apple trying to prevent you from using an older charger on your new iPod?

    Yes. An older charger for an iPod would give out 12V. Newer iPod chargers give out 5V. With a flat battery, an iPod can cause some PCs to freeze or reset whe plugged in, hence why they now ask if they can draw X amount of current and only draw that amount. You can work around it by pretending to be a 5V wall charger.

    Its the same with my phone - if I plug it into the PC, it will be max 400mA, but if I plug it into a "dumb" wall charger it'll do nothing. If I plug it into the provided wall charger, it can draw upto 1A. Shorting the 5th and 4th pins in the USB connector also lets it work from a "dumb" power supply. 



  • @hallo.amt said:

    What about having that in the batter Module which knows its batter much Beter than the Power supply ?
     

    The batter module - that's the one for making pancakes, right?



  • @bullestock said:

    The batter module - that's the one for making pancakes, right?
     

    No no, it's the one for battering into submission.



  • @Smitty said:

    @hallo.amt said:
    What about having that in
    the batter Module which knows its batter much Beter than the Power
    supply ?

    I think the hardware is having a hard time talking with the keyboard.
    Or the user.

    It was not a keyboard but I was testing an iTampon. And it kept fixing my "spelling errors" but it was trying to make me write German. It also capitalizes quite randomly if you do not turn that off.

    And I never had an original power supply for my laptop. The first thing I did was to buy a couple of cheapos because the original one has a seal marking it as "compatible with our university's power network" and that stays at my office there.



  • @Qwerty said:

    A bigger WTF is my Blackberry.  It won't charge off USB unless it can talk to the USB hub and confirm that it's allowed to draw power. 
    Same thing with my Motorola Razr. It has a micro USB port but the stock phone will not charge if you use a standard cable and plug it into any old USB port. It has to work through an approved charger. I think at one stage I did try a third party firmware mod that allowed the phone to charge off any USB port, but I don't bother with that and just make sure that I have an approved charger handy at all times.



  • @nexekho said:

    I suppose the same people complaining about this would be okay after the batteries explode and burn their nuts off?

    The power regulator and charge circuit are built into the laptop and more often nowadays the battery itself. The job of the PSU is to supply up to X watts at Y volts. Within reason, even a highly incompatible charger should work to a degree. You'd have to plug it into a much bigger charger to get the ampage required to heat up the machine enough to blow up a battery, and internal fuses should prevent it from getting into that state anyway. You will not blow up your batteries or burn your nuts off with a knock-off charger. You might blow a fuse or the power management IC though.

    I've been using a no-name PSU for my Eee now for a year without problems. If you can charge these things off the terribly unstable power given out by a cigarette lighter socket, you honestly think a duff PSU could mess things up?

    Well, clearly I was exaggerating with the "nuts burned off" comment.  The point is, laptops have warranties and if a cheap power supply fucks something up, Dell has to pay to fix it.  It seems sensible they would protect against shitty, third party power supplies.  Besides, is it really that expensive to buy a Dell replacement?  Hell, I've had two laptop power supplies go bad and they just shipped me a new one, free of charge.  For one of those, the laptop wasn't even under warranty anymore, but they must have figured it was easier to just replace it for free than deal with an unhappy customer.



  • @OzPeter said:

    @Qwerty said:
    A bigger WTF is my Blackberry.  It won't charge off USB unless it can talk to the USB hub and confirm that it's allowed to draw power. 
    Same thing with my Motorola Razr. It has a micro USB port but the stock phone will not charge if you use a standard cable and plug it into any old USB port. It has to work through an approved charger. I think at one stage I did try a third party firmware mod that allowed the phone to charge off any USB port, but I don't bother with that and just make sure that I have an approved charger handy at all times.
    I have one of those.  Some off-the-shelf USB cables work, some don't.  I can't make heads or tails out of it.  When I plug mine into the puter, Linux will recognize it and provide power to it; but if I don't use one of the blessed cables, the phone doesn't charge.  Strangely enough, the battery icon will blink as if it was charging, but it just doesn't charge. Wtf.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Well, clearly I was exaggerating with the "nuts burned off" comment.  The point is, laptops have warranties and if a cheap power supply fucks something up, Dell has to pay to fix it.
    Only if someone can prove that it was caused by manufacturing defect, and if its inside the warranty you would just get the original Dell PSU replaced. If you used a knock-off PSU whilst your Dell one was working fine then Dell has a right to refuse repair and charge you for shipping the broken laptop back to you.

    Saying that, there are stories going around now that Dell are selling known faulty products, so it might be even easier to get something you blew up repaired under warranty. 



  • @Xyro said:

    Some off-the-shelf USB cables work, some don't.

    Talking about that, a few years ago I managed to get two Laser 1GB MP3 players for $1 each. They both worked fine and they lasted for about 10 hours on a charge. I even brought one on holidays to Japan (9 hours flight each way, though I didn't use it the entire way) to listen to on the plane and it still had charge when I got home. But one of the cables would only charge (no data) and the other would not charge (only data). Quite lucky they both had faults but they were the opposite!



  • @OzPeter said:

    @Qwerty said:
    A bigger WTF is my Blackberry.  It won't charge off USB unless it can talk to the USB hub and confirm that it's allowed to draw power. 
    Same thing with my Motorola Razr. It has a micro USB port but the stock phone will not charge if you use a standard cable and plug it into any old USB port. It has to work through an approved charger. I think at one stage I did try a third party firmware mod that allowed the phone to charge off any USB port, but I don't bother with that and just make sure that I have an approved charger handy at all times.

    You can get a fake driver for Windows XP that enables computer charging, but can't actually talk to the phone. Sorry I don't have a link, and I'm not sure if there's a Vista/Windows 7 version of that driver available.

    IIRC, my Mac could actually charge the thing without hacks. This was around OS X 10.4.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @OzPeter said:
    @Qwerty said:
    A bigger WTF is my Blackberry.  It won't charge off USB unless it can talk to the USB hub and confirm that it's allowed to draw power. 
    Same thing with my Motorola Razr. It has a micro USB port but the stock phone will not charge if you use a standard cable and plug it into any old USB port. It has to work through an approved charger. I think at one stage I did try a third party firmware mod that allowed the phone to charge off any USB port, but I don't bother with that and just make sure that I have an approved charger handy at all times.

    You can get a fake driver for Windows XP that enables computer charging, but can't actually talk to the phone. Sorry I don't have a link, and I'm not sure if there's a Vista/Windows 7 version of that driver available.

    IIRC, my Mac could actually charge the thing without hacks. This was around OS X 10.4.

     

     

     No need for fake ones, just get the real charging drivers...

     http://www.motorola.com/Support/US-EN/Support-Homepage/Software_and_Drivers/USB-and-PC-Charging-Drivers



  • @dcraig said:

    No need for fake ones, just get the real charging drivers...

     http://www.motorola.com/Support/US-EN/Support-Homepage/Software_and_Drivers/USB-and-PC-Charging-Drivers

    Nice. In my defense, at the time I owned a RAZR, there were no official ones. And the Moto Connect software cost like $40.



  • @Mole said:

    If you used a knock-off PSU whilst your Dell one was working fine then Dell has a right to refuse repair and charge you for shipping the broken laptop back to you.

    Right, but how will they know you used a knock-off PSU?  I'm guessing the same firmware that pops up this error messages logs it permanently so they know if you used a third-party PSU.  But it still seems reasonable for them to simply lower the performance of the laptop to guarantee safer interoperability.  It still costs them to deal with and reject user-damaged equipment claims, so anything to minimize that seems sensible.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Mole said:

    If you used a knock-off PSU whilst your Dell one was working fine then Dell has a right to refuse repair and charge you for shipping the broken laptop back to you.

    Right, but how will they know you used a knock-off PSU?  I'm guessing the same firmware that pops up this error messages logs it permanently so they know if you used a third-party PSU.  But it still seems reasonable for them to simply lower the performance of the laptop to guarantee safer interoperability.  It still costs them to deal with and reject user-damaged equipment claims, so anything to minimize that seems sensible.

    I'm sure that Dell will limit its use of vendor lock-in to scenarios that save them on support costs without really hurting their customers.  It's not like Lexmark tried to use the DMCA to prevent competitors from selling compatible toner or anything.

    The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act specifically disallows Dell from requiring a specific brand of accessory.  In order to be exempt, not only would Dell have to have a good reason, but they would also have to file for a waiver for a tie-in sales provision.  The FTC normally requires that the vendor provide supplies for free in order to get a waiver.  So, it may cost Dell a few cents per unit to deal with the existence of third-party power supplies, but federal law requires them to do so in the United States.



  • I agree, morbius. 

    Our servers (which are not exactly new) report and store "fault codes" which includes things like ab-normal voltages, temperatures, etc. There's nothing stopping Dell from recording the fact that a dodgy PSU was plugged in and that the voltages were way-off spec. 

    Then again, if your product manual says "Only use the official adaptor" can you be denied a warranty claim because you didn't? 



  • @Mole said:

    I agree, morbius. 

    Our servers (which are not exactly new) report and store "fault codes" which includes things like ab-normal voltages, temperatures, etc. There's nothing stopping Dell from recording the fact that a dodgy PSU was plugged in and that the voltages were way-off spec. 

    Then again, if your product manual says "Only use the official adaptor" can you be denied a warranty claim because you didn't? 

    No.  The whole point of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act was to make it illegal to make warranty coverage dependant on "tie-in sales".  Also, if your Dell power supply fries your Dell laptop, then they'll replace the power supply under warranty.  However, they are under no obligation to replace the laptop that the power supply fried regardless of brand.  There is a 90% chance that a Dell power supply is simply the cheapest aftermarket power supply available with a Dell logo stamped on it.  The only thing you gain by using a Dell power supply is avoiding finger pointing when it isn't clear whether the power supply or the laptop is broken.


  • @Jaime said:

    No.  The whole point of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act was to make it illegal to make warranty coverage dependant on "tie-in sales".  Also, if your Dell power supply fries your Dell laptop, then they'll replace the power supply under warranty.  However, they are under no obligation to replace the laptop that the power supply fried regardless of brand.  There is a 90% chance that a Dell power supply is simply the cheapest aftermarket power supply available with a Dell logo stamped on it.  The only thing you gain by using a Dell power supply is avoiding finger pointing when it isn't clear whether the power supply or the laptop is broken.
     

    I gotta figure there is some kind of loophole for manufactured items.  I highly doubt any car company would repair your car on warranty after you put in a cheap chinese part and blew up the engine, just as well as Dell wouldn't repair a laptop on warranty that had its motherboard fried after you plugged in a cheap chinese power supply.

    And if there isn't one it should be added, that's assanine that I can get a warranty covered repair after my own damn screw up.  Not that I would ever use anything besides the manufacturer parts, but common sense isn't so common these days.



  • @Master Chief said:

    I gotta figure there is some kind of loophole for manufactured items.  I highly doubt any car company would repair your car on warranty after you put in a cheap chinese part and blew up the engine, just as well as Dell wouldn't repair a laptop on warranty that had its motherboard fried after you plugged in a cheap chinese power supply.

    Well, here's the thing.

    @15 USC 2302 (c) said:

    No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if -

    (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
    (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. 

    In your example, car companies are likely to say that while they won't fix the engine for free, the warranty on the car ("his written or implied warranty of such product" in the legalese) has not been voided. You would stil be able to get, e.g, new tires under warranty if they were covered, even if you've blown up the engine installing a bad third-party part. They can also claim that if you're not a certified mechanic of some kind, you've voided the warranty just by removing the part you were replacing.

    Note that the warrantor can argue that the product won't "function properly" with a cheap Chinese part, and that the FTC can argue that stopping people from using cheap Chinese parts is in the public interest.

    Note also that none of this applies to article or service provided without charge. Was the original power supply paid for? Or did it come free with the purchase of the computer? Hard to say.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    Was the original power supply paid for? Or did it come free with the purchase of the computer? Hard to say.
    (Am I allowed to return the computer but keep the free gift?)



  • @Jaime said:

    The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act specifically disallows Dell from requiring a specific brand of accessory.  In order to be exempt, not only would Dell have to have a good reason, but they would also have to file for a waiver for a tie-in sales provision.  The FTC normally requires that the vendor provide supplies for free in order to get a waiver.  So, it may cost Dell a few cents per unit to deal with the existence of third-party power supplies, but federal law requires them to do so in the United States.

    Which is, uh, exactly my point?  They can't get out of supporting warranties for laptops fried by third-party PSUs, so they simply make the firmware reject non-OEM PSUs.  There's no law I know of that requires them to make their products easily compatible with third-party accessories, so it's the most sensible way for them to protect themselves from fraudulent claims.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Jaime said:

    The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act specifically disallows Dell from requiring a specific brand of accessory.  In order to be exempt, not only would Dell have to have a good reason, but they would also have to file for a waiver for a tie-in sales provision.  The FTC normally requires that the vendor provide supplies for free in order to get a waiver.  So, it may cost Dell a few cents per unit to deal with the existence of third-party power supplies, but federal law requires them to do so in the United States.

    Which is, uh, exactly my point?  They can't get out of supporting warranties for laptops fried by third-party PSUs, so they simply make the firmware reject non-OEM PSUs.  There's no law I know of that requires them to make their products easily compatible with third-party accessories, so it's the most sensible way for them to protect themselves from fraudulent claims.

    Ask Lexmark.  They tried to sue a company for making aftermarket toner, but they went a step further and invoked the DMCA anti-circumvention provision.  They lost http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark_Int'l_v._Static_Control_Components .  Making compatible products isn't that hard, Dell's attempts don't provide a technical barrier that's even worth mentioning, they are simply hoping to scare enough customers into buying overpriced Dell crap.  I'm still confused why you think an OEM power supply is actually better than an aftermarket power supply.  The variation from product to product doesn't signify any extra thought or engineering in the product, it's done to ensure that your old spare power supply won't work in your new laptop.

    BTW, what fraudulent claims?  If the power supply fries the laptop, Dell doesn't have to pay for it.  Even if a Dell power supply fries a Dell laptop that is under warranty, they don't have to pay for it.  They probably will, but "incidental or consequential" damages aren't covered.  Insurance is the opposite.  If your hot water tank fails and floods your basement, insurance pays for the cleanup, but not the tank.  The tank warranty pays for the tank, but not the cleanup.



  • @Jaime said:

    They probably will, but "incidental or consequential" damages aren't covered.  Insurance is the opposite.  If your hot water tank fails and floods your basement, insurance pays for the cleanup, but not the tank.  The tank warranty pays for the tank, but not the cleanup.
     

    Western life is a complex affair.



  • @Jaime said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Jaime said:

    The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act specifically disallows Dell from requiring a specific brand of accessory.  In order to be exempt, not only would Dell have to have a good reason, but they would also have to file for a waiver for a tie-in sales provision.  The FTC normally requires that the vendor provide supplies for free in order to get a waiver.  So, it may cost Dell a few cents per unit to deal with the existence of third-party power supplies, but federal law requires them to do so in the United States.

    Which is, uh, exactly my point?  They can't get out of supporting warranties for laptops fried by third-party PSUs, so they simply make the firmware reject non-OEM PSUs.  There's no law I know of that requires them to make their products easily compatible with third-party accessories, so it's the most sensible way for them to protect themselves from fraudulent claims.

    Ask Lexmark.  They tried to sue a company for making aftermarket toner,

     

    You two are not talking about the same thing.



  • @stratos said:

    @Jaime said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Jaime said:

    The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act specifically disallows Dell from requiring a specific brand of accessory.  In order to be exempt, not only would Dell have to have a good reason, but they would also have to file for a waiver for a tie-in sales provision.  The FTC normally requires that the vendor provide supplies for free in order to get a waiver.  So, it may cost Dell a few cents per unit to deal with the existence of third-party power supplies, but federal law requires them to do so in the United States.

    Which is, uh, exactly my point?  They can't get out of supporting warranties for laptops fried by third-party PSUs, so they simply make the firmware reject non-OEM PSUs.  There's no law I know of that requires them to make their products easily compatible with third-party accessories, so it's the most sensible way for them to protect themselves from fraudulent claims.

    Ask Lexmark.  They tried to sue a company for making aftermarket toner,

     

    You two are not talking about the same thing.

    Sure we are, we are both talking about why Dell tries to lock out third-party power supplies.  He claims it is done to protect Dell from invalid warranty claims on broken laptops, I claim that Dell only does it to force as many customers as possible to buy an overpriced, piece-of-crap, Dell power supply.

    I brought up the toner thing to show how far manufacturers will go to lock in sales of consumables or accessories and that the courts have frowned on this business practice.  If the Dell power supply thing ever found its way to court, it would probably receive a similar reception.  I brought up the incidental damages thing to refute the claim that Dell has to do this to prevent invalid warranty claims.  Dell can even deny claims for damage caused by their own power supply, so they certainly could deny coverage for damage caused by third-party power supplies.  They don't even need a reason, since the laptop isn't actually defective, but was damaged.

    The warning message from the original post is 100% about selling power supplies and is a shady business practice that is trying to end-around the consumer protections put in place by the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.  Lexmark tried it and was slapped down.



  • @Jaime said:

    [quote user="stratos"]

    You two are not talking about the same thing.

    Sure we are, we are both talking about why Dell tries to lock out third-party power supplies.  He claims it is done to protect Dell from invalid warranty claims on broken laptops, I claim that Dell only does it to force as many customers as possible to buy an overpriced, piece-of-crap, Dell power supply.

    I brought up the toner thing to show how far manufacturers will go to lock in sales of consumables or accessories and that the courts have frowned on this business practice.  If the Dell power supply thing ever found its way to court, it would probably receive a similar reception.  I brought up the incidental damages thing to refute the claim that Dell has to do this to prevent invalid warranty claims.  Dell can even deny claims for damage caused by their own power supply, so they certainly could deny coverage for damage caused by third-party power supplies.  They don't even need a reason, since the laptop isn't actually defective, but was damaged.

    The warning message from the original post is 100% about selling power supplies and is a shady business practice that is trying to end-around the consumer protections put in place by the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.  Lexmark tried it and was slapped down.

    [/quote]

    I think the problem nobody sees here is that a properly manufactured and tested third-party product designed to be compatible != a power supply for a likely unrelated product with a new connector soldered onto the end.

    I've used third-party power supplies with no problem before. The thing is, I didn't have to hack them to work. For the Lexmark thing to be comparable, it would have to not be about Lexmark not allowing third-party Lexmark-compatible cartridges, but rather Lexmark not allowing HP or Dell cartridges.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    it would have to not be about Lexmark not allowing third-party Lexmark-compatible cartridges, but rather Lexmark not allowing HP or Dell cartridges.
     

    ... with a new connecter soldered onto the end.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    the problem nobody sees here is that a properly manufactured and tested third-party product designed to be compatible != a power supply for a likely unrelated product with a new connector soldered onto the end.

    I've used third-party power supplies with no problem before. The thing is, I didn't have to hack them to work. For the Lexmark thing to be comparable, it would have to not be about Lexmark not allowing third-party Lexmark-compatible cartridges, but rather Lexmark not allowing HP or Dell cartridges.

    But the Dell message wasn't designed to protect against hacked power supplies, it's designed to either make it difficult for aftermarket suppliers to compete or to extort a licensing fee from them.  The fact that it comes up after a homebrew hack is merely coincidental.  Lexmark proved that this is the motivation by taking the toner manufaturer to court because they refused to pay the licensing fee.

    Brother has a directly comparable scenario.  There are several models of Brother toner cartridges that are technically the same, but aren't interchangeable.  Dremel out a notch in the right place and you can use the left over cartridges from an old printer for a new one.  Substitute Brother for Lexmark in all of the statements above and now we have the hack back in all of the compared scenarios, the only difference is the Brother doesn't sue when someone makes one of these: http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/brother-tn550-tn580-toner-cartridge-compatible-black

    Warranty coverage is a red herring.  The only reason a manufacturer mentions quality control or warranty coverage when these questions come up is because PR people aren't allowed to say "We make it is difficult as possible to make accessories for our products so that we can sell them at a higher profit, we also do it in such a way that it doesn't raise our costs much and if we use the right technology, sometimes it allows us to leverage the legal system against our competitors.  We also like to blame every problem on spyware and regularly suggest that customers wipe all of their data off their laptop to reduce our troubleshooting costs.".



  • @Jaime said:

    Warranty coverage is a red herring.  The only reason a manufacturer mentions quality control or warranty coverage when these questions come up is because PR people aren't allowed to say "We make it is difficult as possible to make accessories for our products so that we can sell them at a higher profit, we also do it in such a way that it doesn't raise our costs much and if we use the right technology, sometimes it allows us to leverage the legal system against our competitors.

    Man, you're still ignoring the fact that a bad charger can actually KILL people via making their laptop battery explode. That? That seems to be the pertinent point. (And stop talking about printers, who gives a shit about printers?)

    Look, you're all "corporations are all evil, everybody's out to get us" mode right now. Fine. But you have to at least concede the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Dell is trying to prevent people's genitals from melting off!



  • @Jaime said:

    Lexmark proved that this is the motivation by taking the toner manufaturer to court because they refused to pay the licensing fee.

    So Lexmark suing a third-party to prevent them from selling a legal product in the open market is the same thing as Dell having firmware limit the performance of a laptop when a non-OEM PSU is used?  And because Lexmark was trying to abuse the law to increase its profits is obviously proof that Dell is doing the same thing, even though they aren't violating the law at all?  And, of course, you have no evidence of any of this.

     

    I'm gonna call it: you are fucking retarded.  Get the fuck out of here and go back to Slashdot, you whiny, tinfoil-hat-wearing dipshit.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Jaime said:

    Lexmark proved that this is the motivation by taking the toner manufaturer to court because they refused to pay the licensing fee.

    So Lexmark [b]making it difficult and legally risky to sell a[/b] legal product in the open market is the same thing as Dell having [b]an annoying and potentially scary message[/b] when a non-OEM PSU is used?  And because Lexmark was trying to abuse the law to increase its profits [b]provides precedent suggesting that maybe[/b] Dell is doing the same thing.

    FTFY

    Yeah, your right, vendor lock-in is so prevalent that an act of congress was passed to help control it, but Dell is a benevolent organization and I'm paranoid for even suggesting that they are doing what everyone else is doing.  All this even though Dell is in an industry that regularly requires customers to agree to a contract after they have purchased a product that stipulates that it can be changed at any time in the future, showing blatant disregard for the law.



  • @Jaime said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Jaime said:

    Lexmark proved that this is the motivation by taking the toner manufaturer to court because they refused to pay the licensing fee.

    So Lexmark making it difficult and legally risky to sell a legal product in the open market is the same thing as Dell having an annoying and potentially scary message when a non-OEM PSU is used?  And because Lexmark was trying to abuse the law to increase its profits provides precedent suggesting that maybe Dell is doing the same thing.

    FTFY

    Yeah, your right, vendor lock-in is so prevalent that an act of congress was passed to help control it, but Dell is a benevolent organization and I'm paranoid for even suggesting that they are doing what everyone else is doing.  All this even though Dell is in an industry that regularly requires customers to agree to a contract after they have purchased a product that stipulates that it can be changed at any time in the future, showing blatant disregard for the law.

    Jesus fuck.

    How 'bout you take off your tonfoil hat, stop preaching from your EVIL CORPORATE soapbox, and maybe consider that the "annoying and potentially scary message" is there to prevent injury and/or death, as other posters have mentioned?

    What's next, are you going to argue that road signs warning people about falling rocks are also "annoying and potentially scary" and should therefore be removed? Seriously, GTFO.



  • @The_Assimilator said:


    What's next, are you going to argue that road signs warning people about falling rocks are also "annoying and potentially scary" and should therefore be removed? Seriously, GTFO.

     

    Those are just to keep people afraid and under control. The signs are placed on the side of the road by the government. Who owns the highways, and therefore the rocks that fall on them? The government

    Coincidence? I think not!


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