Should I remove this sig?



  • There has been some complaints raised about my signature recently.  In the interest of being fair, I offer this vote.  Is my signature offensive to you? Perhaps I've made it a bit too subtle, but dhromed's avatar has been 'shopped in. The original looks like this:


    The text incourages Netherlanders to join the Waffen SS and help fight Bolshevism.  My initial response to this outrage was as follows:

    Other than accusing dhromed of Nazism, I really don't believe this
    particular poster is excessively offensive.  In my opinion, the fact
    that it has Nazi origins really isn't enough.   It doesn't denegrate
    Jews or any other racial or ethnic group.  Yeah, it does oppose the
    Bolsheviks, but I find it really hard to take a side in a war of
    extremists.

    But I'm willing to hear arguments on the matter.  So vote below, and feel free to explain your position.  I don't promise to abide by the poll, but I'll take it into account.

    [Poll]



  • No.

    As you said in another thread, it is a symbol but it not overtly offensive. Yes, some people will be offended or those same people can look at it as a highlight of not forgetting our history. Ok, Nazis were bad, commies are/were bad, early 'merican settlers kicking the snot out of the natives were bad, romans were bad, perhaps the real WTF is that the only groups of motherfuckers these people consider to be good are the hippies and left-wing nutjobs in politics...

    Fuck em, keep it



  • just shop the offensive symbols out and replace them with something.. hell anything will do.  That way you won't have to deal with more complaints.

     



  •  Mods are Nazi, Fascist pigs!



  • @bstorer said:

    But I'm willing to hear arguments on the matter.  So vote below, and feel free to explain your position
    I voted for "No, and removing it is unnecessary." Personally I think that being overly sensitive about shit like this is pointless, if you can't joke about some massive failure then there is something horribly wrong. At no point is it actually trying to portray Nazism as glamourous, nor is it trying to belittle the horror that the halocaust was, nor is it like you're trying to promote the Aryan race (seriously). It's actually kind of sad that someone wants to forget that we're actually capable of that nighmarish inhumanity, I for one do not want anyone to try to repeat it, and being able to joke about it freely definately helps with keeping the ignorance at bay.



    The only possible issue I see from this is the trivialization of the events, but this isn't some massive campaign to dillute the message, and everyone here is hopefully mature enough to understand it isn't about dilluting it either.



  • No.

    Instead, I think we should start an Internatial Association for People Offended by Other People Who Get Offended by Every Little Tiny Thing.

     




  • I don't think it's particularly offensive. :) But I'm wondering if there's a point you're trying to make? Because I'm not getting it.



  • The only thing that bothers me about your sig is how eye-catching the color scheme is.  Then I end up staring at communist/nazi/socialist/european propaganda instead of reading posts.  Also, I worry it catches the eyes of co-workers passing by.

    @too_many_usernames said:

    No.

    Instead, I think we should start an Internatial Association for People Offended by Other People Who Get Offended by Every Little Tiny Thing.

    International People Offended by Other People Taking Overblown Offense:  IPOOPTOO



  • @antred said:

    I don't think it's particularly offensive. :) But I'm wondering if there's a point you're trying to make? Because I'm not getting it.
    Behind the scenes: we (the mods) have been dealing with a number of really bad spammers (2-3 posts per minute for hours on end) but have no way to deal with them. So it was decided that we should elect one of the mods to become an admin (current ones are Alex P. and AmmoQ), IIRC bstorer actually gave the suggestion for dhromed first and went through the effort to have his sig become a pollitical banner for the vote. One dhromed actually got admin powers bstorer immediately began a slander campaign with the tag-line "Why so socialist?" with obvious reference to that new batman movie with The Joker in it. After a brief discussion it was made clear that dhromed is actually anti-socialist and thus began the current campaign.



    TL;DR: It's a massive in-joke.



  • @Lingerance said:

    @antred said:
    I don't think it's particularly offensive. :) But I'm wondering if there's a point you're trying to make? Because I'm not getting it.
    Behind the scenes: we (the mods) have been dealing with a number of really bad spammers (2-3 posts per minute for hours on end) but have no way to deal with them. So it was decided that we should elect one of the mods to become an admin (current ones are Alex P. and AmmoQ), IIRC bstorer actually gave the suggestion for dhromed first and went through the effort to have his sig become a pollitical banner for the vote.

    @Lingerance said:

    One dhromed actually got admin powers bstorer immediately began a slander campaign with the tag-line "Why so socialist?" with obvious reference to that new batman movie with The Joker in it.

     

    (Also, it's a play on the anti-Obama  posters:

    )

     

     



  • @Xyro said:

    International People Offended by Other People Taking Overblown Offense:  IPOOPTOO

     

    Heh, you noticed that "hidden" in there... but did a better job of making a phrase instead of just a word - I like it!



  •  I vote no.  I really hate people that get offended by every little thing and want everybody else to "take it down, its offensive man".  My grandfather died in WWII, but I don't go around kicking Germans in the nuts for it, or hating Volkswagons. Ok, the VW Beatle is a piece of shit, but other than that, they're fine.

     

    Oversensitive vaginas need to go fuck off.  Just my 2 cents.



  • @amischiefr said:

    Oversensitive vaginas need to go fuck off
    I don't get why that'd be a bad thing.



  • As a dutch person myself I am deeply offended by this and feel that all references to nazism should be completely and utterly removed. All offenders should be rounded up and marked for their possible nazi-sympathies, perhaps at some later date we can collectively ship them to proper processing facility. I think there are still some unused camps in germany we could ship them too.



  • The point is not that it's offensive, but that it uses propaganda material of a fascist ideology that was responsible for the deaths of at least 11 million people, as a way of acting victimised in an insignificant power struggle. It's like using footage from an abortion as an advertisement for detergent.



  • @TGV said:

    The point is not that it's offensive
    No, that's exactly what it is.  You are offended. People don't break out the 50-foot text simply because the medium is disproportionate to the message.

     @TGV said:

    but that it uses propaganda material of a fascist ideology
    It uses the material but not the ideology.  It doesn't promote systematic genocide or ethnic subjugation.  It does promote the opposition of the Bolsheviks, which, again, I don't really disagree with.  Your reaction seems to be centered around the thought process of, "OMG Nazis!"  I don't subscribe to the theory that everything to do with them should be completely off limits.  Believe me, I gave this at least a bit of thought before I did it.  I didn't want to make something that could be repurposed as genuine propaganda today, and I don't think this can.  The Bolshevik threat has diminished just a tad since the 1940s. @TGV said:
    responsible for the deaths of at least 11 million people
    Don't get me wrong, the death of 11 million people is terrible, and I'm not saying anyone ought to slap on a swastika armband and revive the Kristallnacht.  But I think this has more to do with the fact that it's specifically the Nazis.  Hell, the Bolsheviks and the resulting Communist Party of the USSR is culpable in at least five times that many deaths, and perhaps many, many more.  Yet if I had used one of these posters, there wouldn't be half the reaction.

    I hotlinked the shit outta those, so I hope they come through for you.  The second one is another excellent study in artistry, by the way.@TGV said:

    as a way of acting victimised in an insignificant power struggle
      There's no power struggle.  There's only false indignation, a lot of hyperbole, and a dash of mockery toward the common cry of moderator fascism.@TGV said:
    It's like using footage from an abortion as an advertisement for detergent.
    It's the same in that there is gross hyperbole, yes.  But this poster doesn't have any graphic depiction or language.  All of that needs to be read into it, and the general consensus is that you're reading way more into it than most.

    On a related note, out of respect for those of you who live in countries that have adopted a head-in-the-sand approach to their own awful history, I will be removing the references to the SS from the poster.  I don't know that I'll get to it until tomorrow, so until then, I've replaced it with a censored version.  Enjoy.



  • @bstorer said:

    Where did you find those nifty Obama campaign posters?



  • Some quotes and thoughts out of order and/or context:

    @bstorer said:

    Believe me, I gave this at least a bit of thought before I did it.

    I know, which is why I didn't really mind. But after seeing it a couple times, I basically waited for you to remove it.

    @bstorer said:

    There's only false indignation, a lot of hyperbole, and a dash of
    mockery toward the common cry of moderator fascism.

    I figured that would be it. However, we apparently disagree on how funny this bit of mockery is, or how often you should repeat it. This goes for signatures in general btw: most signatures are just not funny or interesting enough, with the exception of the "Depends. Is that an imperial fuckload or a metric one?" retort (and even that one is getting a bit stale)

    @bstorer said:
    It does promote the opposition of the Bolsheviks

    Wellll.... on the surface maybe, but the whole Russian campaign was mostly about "Lebensraum", about exterminating Jews, about enslaving the Slavs, and about hate, terror and bigotry. Defeat the Bolsheviks was just a more popular slogan in Holland than "kill the Jews", but the whole Eastern Front business was just such a total cockup on all sides with such a huge dose of utter horror thrown in that all in all, the poster to me is first of all a reminder of a very, very black page in history.

    @bstorer said:

    Yet if I had used one of these (Soviet) posters, there wouldn't be half the
    reaction.

    True. The difference to me is, as despicable and antisemitic and murderous as Stalin was, he didn't actually promote that as central part of his ideology (not everyone may agree with this). But I admit that this is a thin line. Still, you wouldn't have used an anti-Jew poster, I think, or a Hutu/Tutsi poster, yet that is the sort of horror this calls up for me.

    @bstorer said:

    head-in-the-sand approach to their own awful
    history

    Not for me. Quite the opposite in fact.

    I admit to being a bit overly sensitive about these matters. Others will see different things looking at that poster, and I respect that. However, you asked for an honest opinion, and mine is: I've seen it, now remove it please. Thanks.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



  • @b_redeker said:

    However, we apparently disagree on how funny this bit of mockery is, or how often you should repeat it. This goes for signatures in general btw: most signatures are just not funny or interesting enough, with the exception of the "Depends. Is that an imperial fuckload or a metric one?" retort (and even that one is getting a bit stale)
    It was never intended to last very long (the previous "vote dhromed" and "why so socialist" posters lasted, what, a couple days each?).  Big signatures never should last that long (except this one (caution: may cause seizures or stop the hearts of the weak) I used for a while, which was perfect in every way.  I only removed it because morb changed his signature, thus making it less topical.). @b_redeker said:
    @bstorer said:
    head-in-the-sand approach to their own awful
    history

    Not for me. Quite the opposite in fact.

    I didn't have you in mind when I wrote that.  I didn't have TGV or anyone else in mind, either.  It's more a reference to Germany's retarded laws and generally stupid approach to their own past.



  • @b_redeker said:

    This goes for signatures in general btw: most signatures are just not funny or interesting enough, with the exception of the"Depends. Is that an imperial fuckload or a metric one?" retort (and even that one is getting a bit stale)
     

    Psh.

    My sig is unflawed and timeless.



  • @bstorer said:

    (except this one (caution: may cause seizures or stop the hearts of the weak)
    I vaugley remember that. What was Morb's sig that prompted that?



  • @Lingerance said:

    @bstorer said:
    (except this one (caution: may cause seizures or stop the hearts of the weak)
    I vaugley remember that. What was Morb's sig that prompted that?

    Aw man, I missed that one!

    (You people have far too much free time, by the way. Or, more accurately: you folks are far more creative than I with your free time.)



  • @Lingerance said:

    @bstorer said:
    (except this one (caution: may cause seizures or stop the hearts of the weak)
    I vaugley remember that. What was Morb's sig that prompted that?
    Some sort of giant ribbon about butt cancer.



  • You left out an option in the poll:

    -- Don't care.  I never see it.  All signatures are stupid and annoying so I have them disabled in my profile settings.



  • Posting this here for posterity and taking it out of my signature because I dislike large signatures.


     



  •  In my opinion. It looks fabulous. No need to get rid of it. This sig is good.



  • @danieljones2006 said:

     In my opinion. It looks fabulous. No need to get rid of it. This sig is good.

    ... "fabulous"?



  • @Lingerance said:

    @danieljones2006 said:

     In my opinion. It looks fabulous. No need to get rid of it. This sig is good.

    ... "fabulous"?
     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabolous




  • This seems like a good thread to post this, for fans of both Obama and penises.



  • @Zecc said:

    This seems like a good thread to post this, for fans of both Obama and penises.

    http://accidentalpenis.com/post/708221085/autograph-penis

     

    According to Wikipedia:

     "deer
    penis
    , which is said in traditional Chinese medicine to
    enhance virility in men, was added to the list of banned
    substances during the 2008 Beijing Olympics"

    I suppose testing positive for deer penis might be a little embarassing?

     



  • @El_Heffe said:

    I suppose testing positive for deer penis might be a little embarassing?

    If you're the poor bastard giving the test, the correct adjective is "terrifying".



  • I vote no. I really hate people that get offended by every little thing and want everybody else to "take it down, its offensive man". My grandfather died in WWII, but I don't go around kicking Germans in the nuts for it, or hating Volkswagons. Ok, the VW Beatle is a piece of shit, but other than that, they're fine.

    Oversensitive vaginas need to go fuck off. Just my 2 cents.



  • @LeeRain said:

    VW Beatle
    All German emulations of the Beatles must indeed be terrifying.  I can only imagine.



  •  @LeeRain said:

    I vote no. I really hate people that get offended by every little thing and want everybody else to "take it down, its offensive man". My grandfather died in WWII, but I don't go around kicking Germans in the nuts for it, or hating Volkswagons.

    When they say to take it down, look at them suspiciously and ask if they really want their names recorded among the fascist dictators who suppressed all dissenting expression in the media.

    (BTW, love the Soviet poster with the hammer, sickle and star motif.  I may refer to it for a discussion in another forum about baking soda logos.  Did you know the original significance of those three elements was to represent Industry, Agriculture and Science respectively; who's got a problem with those for ideals?)


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