MSDN WTF



  • Ok, this has been going on long enough now. I would have thought it would have been detected by Microsoft's goons by now, but obviously not. 

    Goto any MSDN page for API documentation, for example, CopyFile, note that the default syntax description is always VB? Even though 99% of the time, all you get is "This language is not supported, or no code example is available." ? It would still be a WTF if they actually gave the syntax for VB, but at least it wouldn't be as big, as people would get a hint of the required arguments. 

    Before this wonderful FUBAR, they didn't have those selection tabs - they assumed C++ by default. 

    So now for every API entry I want to lookup, I have to also click the C++ tab for the syntax because Microsoft assume everyone is using Visual Basic, which doesn't 99% of the API syntax parameters anyway. 

     



  • @Mole said:

    So now for every API entry I want to lookup, I have to also click the C++ tab for the syntax because Microsoft assume everyone is using Visual Basic,
    Are you blocking cookies? I don't see the behaviour you're describing. Cookie 'CodeSnippetContainerLang' seems to hold the last selected tab (though it does appear to be a session cookie.)



  • Mine is set to C#.



  • I see the C++ syntax.   Try switching the abomination to the "ScriptFree" view so you can actually use the page.



  • That's a C library function.  It's probably too much to ask for MSDN to give p/invoke or legacy VB declare examples.



  • @Xyro said:

    I see the C++ syntax.   Try switching the abomination to the "ScriptFree" view so you can actually use the page.
    Perfect, thats just what I wanted. Thanks!

    (It's still a WTF that they default to VB tho'....)



  • @Mole said:

    @Xyro said:

    I see the C++ syntax.   Try switching the abomination to the "ScriptFree" view so you can actually use the page.
    Perfect, thats just what I wanted. Thanks!

    (It's still a WTF that they default to VB tho'....)

    How is defaulting to the latest variant of the programming language which actually got microsoft into business in the first place a WTF?



  • @Medezark said:

    How is defaulting to the latest variant of the programming language which actually got microsoft into business in the first place a WTF?
     

    You forgot the sarcasm tags.

    You seriously argue that one of MS's most superseded products still has dibs onthe man pages for the exact reaosn it is ye oldy product?



  • @Medezark said:

    @Mole said:

    @Xyro said:

    I see the C++ syntax.   Try switching the abomination to the "ScriptFree" view so you can actually use the page.
    Perfect, thats just what I wanted. Thanks!

    (It's still a WTF that they default to VB tho'....)

    How is defaulting to the latest variant of the programming language which actually got microsoft into business in the first place a WTF?

    Because VB is always a WTF.  That's like Newton's First Law.


  •  @Medezark said:

    How is defaulting to the latest variant of the programming language which actually got microsoft into business in the first place a WTF?
    Besides the above, from a usability point of view, which would you expect to see as the default - the language to which they have the most syntax parameters for, or the one that has the least because it's meant for non-programmers to hack up simple front ends to databases? 



  •  @Mole said:

    from a usability point of view, which would you expect to see as the default - the language to which they have the most syntax parameters for, or the one that has the least because it's meant for non-programmers to hack up simple front ends to databases? 

    That's a completely different argument.

    I was taking issue with your communication of the idea that, equivalently, Dell should primarily display its very first computer models on the site, because they were his first and are the ones that got him into business in the first place.

    And that is a silly notion.

     

    Regardless, I think the default displayed language on MSDN should be C#.



  • @dhromed said:

    Regardless, I think the default displayed language on MSDN should be C#.
     

    I always get C#, but that's probably because of the cookies.



  • @dhromed said:

     @Mole said:

    from a usability point of view, which would you expect to see as the default - the language to which they have the most syntax parameters for, or the one that has the least because it's meant for non-programmers to hack up simple front ends to databases? 

    That's a completely different argument.

    I was taking issue with your communication of the idea that, equivalently, Dell should primarily display its very first computer models on the site, because they were his first and are the ones that got him into business in the first place.

    And that is a silly notion.

     

    Regardless, I think the default displayed language on MSDN should be C#.

    Meh.  In MY opinion, which is neither honest nor humble, the display should default to VB, unless VB has no documentation, and then point to successively lower level langauges beginning with the bstrdized son of VB and C which is C#, and progressing down the chain to C++, C, and then Assembly.  Or perhaps the order should be based on some pole as to number of users.

    And, MOLE, your illustration would be appropriate if VB were not in current use and not still in the process of continual growth and expansion.  However considering that VB is being expanded and evolving, you FAIL.  Also, your characterization of VB and VB programmers is unfair and inflamatory. I have nothing against the various C flavors, when used to develop close to metal executables.  However as capabilities have been added that drive C farther and farther from bare metal, it becomes more and more cumbersome to code.  And when targetting a CLR, or any runtime package, the difference between one language over another tends to disappear.

    As far as "hacking together front ends for databases", the same could be said of virtually any language, as front ends for databases are very common programming tasks.  At least i didn't suggest that FoxPro be the default.



  • @Medezark said:

    and then point to successively lower level langauges beginning with the bstrdized son of VB and C which is C#

    cough



  • @Medezark said:

    However considering that VB is being expanded and evolving, you FAIL.  Also, your characterization of VB and VB programmers is unfair and inflamatory.
    ...  hwæt? Is this guy for real?  Medezark, you're a poor VB programmer, aren't you?  No wonder you don't understand.



  • @Xyro said:

    @Medezark said:

    However considering that VB is being expanded and evolving, you FAIL.  Also, your characterization of VB and VB programmers is unfair and inflamatory.
    ...  hwæt? Is this guy for real?  Medezark, you're a poor VB programmer, aren't you?  No wonder you don't understand.

    Actually I'm a Z80 assembly programmer.



  • @Xyro said:

    @Medezark said:

    However considering that VB is being expanded and evolving, you FAIL.  Also, your characterization of VB and VB programmers is unfair and inflamatory.
    ...  hwæt? Is this guy for real?  Medezark, you're a poor VB programmer, aren't you?  No wonder you don't understand.

    In reference to your tags, unfortunately my first exposure to programming was Z80 Assembly language, followed by Pascal. 



  • @frits said:

    That's a C library function.  It's probably too much to ask for MSDN to give p/invoke or legacy VB declare examples.

    Another reason may be that it isn't supported on OS's after Windows 2000 and Windows 2000 Server, and thus no-one's been keeping the reference files updated?



  • @Medezark said:

    @Xyro said:
    @Medezark said:
    However considering that VB is being expanded and evolving, you FAIL.  Also, your characterization of VB and VB programmers is unfair and inflamatory.
    ...  hwæt? Is this guy for real?  Medezark, you're a poor VB programmer, aren't you?  No wonder you don't understand.
    In reference to your tags, unfortunately my first exposure to programming was Z80 Assembly language, followed by Pascal.
    That sounds pretty epic, actually (if you'll excuse the overused internet vocab).  Do you mind if I ask how old you are? Share with us some war stories!



  • @Medezark said:

    the bstrdized son of VB and C which is C#

    So who's the cuckold?  'Cause the kid is a redhead and Java's a ginger.



  • @XIU said:

    Mine is set to C#.
    Mine too, which is what I use. It's telepathic!

    ED: However, us knowing to what post you are replying is not.  Added a quote.  -btk



  • I'm 41, be 42 this month.  Our  elementary school library had a TRS-80 Model 1 and tapes for the Z-80 Assembler.  When I wrote a simple lunar lander in machine language it was arranged for me to go to Duke Universities "Computer Kamp" the summers of 1980 and 1981.  They wanted me to write an attendance program that would run on a TRS-80 Model I with a tape drive and 4K RAM.  That was a non-starter.  1981 Duke used TRS-80's -- Models I, III and a few Color Computers.  1982 they had upgraded to IBM PC's and Pascal.



  • @bstorer said:

    Because VB is always a WTF.  That's like Newton's First Law.
     

    Seconded.  Fervently.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @XIU said:

    Mine is set to C#.
    Mine too, which is what I use. It's telepathic!

    ED: However, us knowing to what post you are replying is not.  Added a quote.  -btk

     

    Ok, this forum software is a WTF, but I guess I assumed the mods knew how to work it.

    When you reply with no quote, it puts a "in response to" link in the upper right of the response. Click that, and it shows what I'm replying to.

    No chiding me for using the software as intended. :P



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @XIU said:

    Mine is set to C#.
    Mine too, which is what I use. It's telepathic!

    ED: However, us knowing to what post you are replying is not.  Added a quote.  -btk

     

    Ok, this forum software is a WTF, but I guess I assumed the mods knew how to work it.

    When you reply with no quote, it puts a "in response to" link in the upper right of the response. Click that, and it shows what I'm replying to.

    No chiding me for using the software as intended. :P

    Bullshit.  If I have to click a link to know what the hell you're talking about, I'd rather just ignore what you have to say.  Quoting gives the proper context so we can rapidly comprehend what you are trying to say, then ignore it.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @XIU said:

    Mine is set to C#.
    Mine too, which is what I use. It's telepathic!

    ED: However, us knowing to what post you are replying is not.  Added a quote.  -btk

     

    Ok, this forum software is a WTF, but I guess I assumed the mods knew how to work it.

    When you reply with no quote, it puts a "in response to" link in the upper right of the response. Click that, and it shows what I'm replying to.

    No chiding me for using the software as intended. :P

    Bullshit.  If I have to click a link to know what the hell you're talking about, I'd rather just ignore what you have to say.  Quoting gives the proper context so we can rapidly comprehend what you are trying to say, then ignore it.

     

     

    I don't give a shit about your preference. I'm saying that if the forum has feature X, and I use feature X, you can't chide me for it.

    If you don't like the forum replying without quoting, then fix the code so it won't let me do that. If it lets me do that, then I'm going do-- in fact, now I'm going to specifically to piss-off Morbius.

     

    Disregard that, I suck cocks.

     

    [FTFY. -TheShadowMod]



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Ok, this forum software is a WTF, but I guess I assumed the mods knew how to work it.
    Like Morb, I would rather just see it right there than have to click something, wait for it to open, and read.  

    @blakeyrat said:

    When you reply with no quote, it puts a "in response to" link in the upper right of the response. Click that, and it shows what I'm replying to.
    It also does that when you reply with a quote.  However, with a quote, I don't have to.  More importantly, I have to middle click it or lose where I was on this page. 

    It was easy for me to put the quote in.  Would have been even easier for you to do it in the first place.

    @blakeyrat said:

    No chiding me for using the software as intended. :P
    Except that you didn't. :Þ



  • @Medezark said:

    In reference to your tags, unfortunately my first exposure to programming was Z80 Assembly language, followed by Pascal.

    Nice. I started with a stripped-down BASIC running on a Z80 micro, then Z80 assembler, then Pascal when I went to uni. (And then others, yes.)

    In my first-year CS course, we did Pascal in the first semester and PDP-11 assembler in the second. Most of the other students found PDP-11 assembler limiting and difficult; I found it ridiculously easy in comparison to Z80 :)



  • @blakeyrat said:


    I don't give a shit about your preference. I'm saying that if the forum has feature X, and I use feature X, you can't chide me for it.

    If you don't like the forum replying without quoting, then fix the code so it won't let me do that. If it lets me do that, then I'm going do-- in fact, now I'm going to specifically to piss-off Morbius.

     

    Disregard that, I suck cocks.

     

    [FTFY. -TheShadowMod]

     

     

    Are you doing anything later?

     

    (Not you, blakeyrat; I was talking to ShadowMod.)



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Medezark said:
    and then point to successively lower level langauges beginning with the bstrdized son of VB and C which is C#
    cough
    ugh Hungarian notation



  •  Better a bstrdized son that a bstorerized son.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    Better a bstrdized son that a bstorerized son.
     

    No.

    No I will not marry you.

    >: (



  • @dhromed said:

    @Someone You Know said:

    Better a bstrdized son that a bstorerized son.
     

    No.

    No I will not marry you.

    >: (

     

    Please? I'll throw in an Alien Atomizer.



  •  @Someone You Know said:

    Alien Atomizer.

    The Nova Surge owns it.


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