Snazzy Java IP-address dialog.





  • Web UI for a WS5100, I think it was.



  • What are you talking about? I can read that perfectly fine!

    Ok, maybe only if I squint.



  •  It's a combination managment console and captcha generator.



  • TRWTF is Java's look-and-feel stuff. I've made Japa apps that look perfect on Mac but are practically unusable on Windows or Linux, or vise-versa.



  • @joemck said:

    TRWTF is Java's look-and-feel stuff. I've made Japa apps that look perfect on Mac but are practically unusable on Windows or Linux, or vise-versa.
     

    At this point in history, after 15 years of Java, I think we just need to admit that anybody who chooses to write a GUI app in Java hates their users. Sorry, but it's true... you knew going in that Java can't make a good UI, you've had 15 years of experiencing shitty Java UIs, there's really no other explanation.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @joemck said:

    TRWTF is Java's look-and-feel stuff. I've made Japa apps that look perfect on Mac but are practically unusable on Windows or Linux, or vise-versa.
     

    At this point in history, after 15 years of Java, I think we just need to admit that anybody who chooses to write a GUI app in Java hates their users. Sorry, but it's true... you knew going in that Java can't make a good UI, you've had 15 years of experiencing shitty Java UIs, there's really no other explanation.

    Maybe.  Or maybe it's because you love your users so much that you don't want them to become spoiled.  So, just a crazy, Depression-era grandfather, you deprive them of a life of comfort, to build character.



  • I'm quite sure that's some japanese insult written in Kanji there...

    @blakeyrat said:

    @joemck said:

    TRWTF is Java's look-and-feel stuff. I've made Japa apps that look perfect on Mac but are practically unusable on Windows or Linux, or vise-versa.
     

    At this point in history, after 15 years of Java, I think we just need to admit that anybody who chooses to write a GUI app in Java hates their users. Sorry, but it's true... you knew going in that Java can't make a good UI, you've had 15 years of experiencing shitty Java UIs, there's really no other explanation.

     Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.



  • @PSWorx said:

    Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.
     

    I have to admit I'm pretty ignorant of Eclipse. Mostly because I refuse to install Java on my computer after it got a virus from the Java plug-in a few months ago. It might be great, I dunno.

    Used to be, when I challenged people to demonstrate a Java GUI that didn't suck, they'd send me to Azureus. Which only proved that they had absolutely no idea how to judge the quality of a GUI.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Used to be, when I challenged people to demonstrate a Java GUI that didn't suck, they'd send me to Azureus. Which only proved that they had absolutely no idea how to judge the quality of a GUI.

    Azureus had a fairly mediocre GUI, but I don't know if I'd go so far as saying it was sucky.  There were a few nice things, like the "swarm" view was pretty cool, but that's just a neat feature and has nothing to do with Java.  In fact, Java is probably the reason the swarm looked like it was drawn on an NES and still felt laggy.   Of course, then it renamed itself to something else and became some kind of goddamn commerical video service or something and the last time I tried to use it I was so disgusted that I switched the uTorrent and never looked back.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @PSWorx said:
    Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.
    I have to admit I'm pretty ignorant of Eclipse. Mostly because I refuse to install Java on my computer after it got a virus from the Java plug-in a few months ago. It might be gr

    It's like we're back in 2003!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @PSWorx said:

    Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.
     

    I have to admit I'm pretty ignorant of Eclipse. Mostly because I refuse to install Java on my computer after it got a virus from the Java plug-in a few months ago. It might be great, I dunno.

    Eclipse has a pretty solid UI, other than the hellishly awful configuration dialog.  Still, it makes my head hurt just thinking about trying to create such something like Eclipse in Java.  I'm not sure why Sun programmed Java's layout managers to feel hate, but I can only assume it's part of their vast plan to punish Java developers.

    On a related note, why does Netbeans look vaguely like a children's toy?



  • @derula said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    @PSWorx said:
    Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.
    I have to admit I'm pretty ignorant of Eclipse. Mostly because I refuse to install Java on my computer after it got a virus from the Java plug-in a few months ago. It might be gr

    It's like we're back in 2003!

    You goddamn whore.



  • @bstorer said:

    On a related note, why does Netbeans look vaguely like a children's toy?

    To me, it looks more like an editor written entirely in HTML, CSS and Javascript.  You know, the kind of thing that's impressive because of the sheer, slavish devotion that went into crafting such a monstrosity.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @bstorer said:

    On a related note, why does Netbeans look vaguely like a children's toy?

    To me, it looks more like an editor written entirely in HTML, CSS and Javascript.  You know, the kind of thing that's impressive because of the sheer, slavish devotion that went into crafting such a monstrosity.

     

    I actually love NetBeans for PHP... Eclipse plain sucks, while NetBeans will do integrated PHPdoc (think javadoc) and NATIVE SVN, thank you very much.

    (ducks)



  • @bezking said:

     

    I actually love NetBeans for PHP... Eclipse plain sucks, while NetBeans will do integrated PHPdoc (think javadoc) and NATIVE SVN, thank you very much.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually like Netbeans, especially for JRuby.  But I always feel like one of the buttons should inform me that the cow says "moo."



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @derula said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    @PSWorx said:
    Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.
    I have to admit I'm pretty ignorant of Eclipse. Mostly because I refuse to install Java on my computer after it got a virus from the Java plug-in a few months ago. It might be gr

    It's like we're back in 2003!

    You goddamn whore.

     

    The reason people don't get viruses any more is because they're smart enough to no longer install Java. Java on the web never recovered after Microsoft ditched it when XP came out, and normal people don't need things like Eclipse or Netbeans.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @joemck said:

    TRWTF is Java's look-and-feel stuff. I've made Japa apps that look perfect on Mac but are practically unusable on Windows or Linux, or vise-versa.
     

    At this point in history, after 15 years of Java, I think we just need to admit that anybody who chooses to write a GUI app in Java hates their users. Sorry, but it's true... you knew going in that Java can't make a good UI, you've had 15 years of experiencing shitty Java UIs, there's really no other explanation.

    And this is the real WTF. It basically means that you nowadays only find Java in the backoffice and other places were there is no need for a GUI. I'm not sure what SUN/Oracle wants with Java, but unless you need something really portable, and don't care about the GUI, you'll use something else than Java.

    I find that for getting people hooked on programming, it helps if it's easy to make a decent GUI.

     

    ) Or you've sold your soul to the devil some years ago and now can't back out of the contract.

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The reason people don't get viruses any more is because they're smart enough to no longer install Java. Java on the web never recovered after Microsoft ditched it when XP came out, and normal people don't need things like Eclipse or Netbeans.

    Who gives a shit about that?  Stop talking.  He posted an xkcd, goddammit.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @joemck said:

    TRWTF is Java's look-and-feel stuff. I've made Japa apps that look perfect on Mac but are practically unusable on Windows or Linux, or vise-versa.
     

    At this point in history, after 15 years of Java, I think we just need to admit that anybody who chooses to write a GUI app in Java hates their users.

     

    I've a long history of writing GUI apps in Java. On the other hand, that doesn't disprove your point.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @PSWorx said:
    Well, there are positive examples, like Eclipse (at least after it dragged itself to finally finish loading). I agree however, you have to try really hard to produce a non-shitty UI with java.

    ...when I challenged people to demonstrate a Java GUI that didn't suck, they'd send me to Azureus.

    Both Azureus and Eclipse use SWT for their GUI. It's basically a library that wraps the native widgets of the OS it is running on (Windows, GTK etc). Most other Java programs use Swing which is the native Java GUI library. Swing programs can change the look-and-feel to better match the OS it is running on but it still won't look 100% right; for example the Open/Save dialog in Swing is complete garbage compared to the standard Windows ones.

    The funny thing is that before Swing Java programs used AWT which was also a wrapper around native widgets.


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