What the Update? and Crappy Anti Virus...



  • Ok so here is something that made me say "WTF"... It is not immediately obvious but think about it...

     

    http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/windows-7-application-compatibility-update-for-august-2009.ars

     

    Basically this fixes some incompatibilities with windows 7 and some anti virus programs. Which boggles my mind. Who in their right mind would use LEGACY anti-virus programs on windows 7?!?!@!@$@#$!@# Windows 7 by nature is different than older windows operating systems and it should be the creators who freaken' fix their applications. Because an anti virus program designed for say windows xp has no place in windows 7, it should be broken on principal alone.



  •  Apparently Trend is a bigger, steamier pile of shit than McAfee. McAfee at least works, even if it doen't report its status to Windows 7 properly.



  • Well in a year or so Microsoft is going to fix this mess once and for all and just release their own anti-virus software. OneCare sucked but the new one should be quite sufficient enough to make a lot of these bloated AV suites obsolete.



  • @Dudehole said:

    Well in a year or so Microsoft is going to fix this mess once and for all and just release their own anti-virus software. OneCare sucked but the new one should be quite sufficient enough to make a lot of these bloated AV suites obsolete.
     

    Yes, because we all know Microsoft is good at making non-bloated suites that just work...

    [ducks]



  • @joemck said:

    @Dudehole said:

    Well in a year or so Microsoft is going to fix this mess once and for all and just release their own anti-virus software. OneCare sucked but the new one should be quite sufficient enough to make a lot of these bloated AV suites obsolete.
     

    Yes, because we all know Microsoft is good at making non-bloated suites that just work...

    [ducks]

     

    I completely agree with that statement BUT windows defender is pretty damn good and windows anti virus might be too. It would be really nice if lets say 90% of the viruses were caught out-of-the-box by windows. You want the other 10% protection? buy a better anti virus. But 90% is better than 0% which is what many have.

     

     

    Also Trend is a flaming heap of horse shit. However the comedy asspect of people trying to run xp anti viruses on windows 7 is still worth it :P



  • @joemck said:

    @Dudehole said:

    Well in a year or so Microsoft is going to fix this mess once and for all and just release their own anti-virus software. OneCare sucked but the new one should be quite sufficient enough to make a lot of these bloated AV suites obsolete.
     

    Yes, because we all know Microsoft is good at making non-bloated suites that just work...

    [ducks]

     

    The only problem I had with Windows Vista is that some things require admin priveleges to run (like AutoMKV) that don't state that they do, and they fail silently.  I also assume this is partly because the application was not rewritten to work with Vista's security model.  That and ATI's crap x64 driver -- CCC has yet to load successfully after an entire year of owning my graphics cards and doing monthly driver upgrades with a full uninstall.

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority. ASLR randomizes the memory of windows making it very hard to do any type of reliable memory-based attack even without DEP or if loaded before windows, and IO priority makes sure all apps have a chance to read/write from disk and one application cannot lock up the computer during a disk intensive function, which seemed to happen all the time on every other windows computer I owned.



  • @nocturnal said:

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority.

    .....

     

     

    and Windows 7 will have an updated version of paint, a win-win situation



  • @Helix said:

    @nocturnal said:

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority.

    .....

     

     

    and Windows 7 will have an updated version of paint, a win-win situation

    Give me paint with layers and I'm sold.



  • @Daid said:

    @Helix said:

    @nocturnal said:

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority.

    .....

     

     

    and Windows 7 will have an updated version of paint, a win-win situation

    Give me paint with layers and I'm sold.

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.



  • @nocturnal said:

    ASLR randomizes the memory of windows making it very hard to do any type of reliable memory-based attack...

    It's kind of useless if you run 32-bit programs, though, because the address space isn't big enough to provide enough randomness.  Then you have OS X which is 32-bit through-and-through (although Snow Leopard is more 64-bit than previous versions, it's still not all the way there) but still offers ASLR which does little more than make loading applications slower.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Daid said:

    @Helix said:

    @nocturnal said:

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority.

    .....

     

     

    and Windows 7 will have an updated version of paint, a win-win situation

    Give me paint with layers and I'm sold.

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.

     

    Dear Sir,

    I have developed my own paint application and changed license from LGPL to our own in-house terms.
    However my user interface still looks not up to date.

    Please could you tell me what I need to do and email me the codes
     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Daid said:

    @Helix said:

    @nocturnal said:

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority.

    .....

     

     

    and Windows 7 will have an updated version of paint, a win-win situation

    Give me paint with layers and I'm sold.

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.

    Actually, the patent covers anything placed on top of anything else.  When one of the reporters at their press conference sarcastically quipped that it could be applied to everything on Earth, Adobe's CEO explained that their legal department wholeheartedly agreed, but were having trouble serving papers on God.  They had tried throwing a subpoena into the air and yelling, "you've been served!" with little success.



  • @Daid said:

    @Helix said:

    @nocturnal said:

    Windows Vista has two killer features that make me overlook everything that is wrong with it, until all is made well again in Win7: ASLR and IO priority.

    .....

     

     

    and Windows 7 will have an updated version of paint, a win-win situation

    Give me paint with layers and I'm sold.

    Paint.NET ? http://www.getpaint.net/



  • @nocturnal said:

    The only problem I had with Windows Vista is that some things require admin priveleges to run (like AutoMKV) that don't state that they do, and they fail silently.  I also assume this is partly because the application was not rewritten to work with Vista's security model.  That and ATI's crap x64 driver -- CCC has yet to load successfully after an entire year of owning my graphics cards and doing monthly driver upgrades with a full uninstall.
     

    I probably don't care, but just in case I do...

    What the heck is CCC?

    None of the Google replies seem relevant, except perhaps "Combined Community Codec Pack", whatever that is.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.

     

     Bullshit, nobody on the Slashdot would ever concede that FOSS applications have flaws.

     At least not with adding "if you think poorly kerned, aliased bitmap fonts don't look good, why don't you just write your own window manager?".



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What the heck is CCC?

     

    Catalyst Control Center.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @nocturnal said:

    That and ATI's crap x64 driver -- CCC has yet to load successfully

    ...

    What the heck is CCC?

     

    Catalyst control center.  It does thinks like give you hotkeys for changing resolution and video connector.  It's also big and bloated and yucky.  nocturnal is probably lucky to not be tripping over it all the time, unless he's constantly giving presentations on old projectors from a laptop.



  • Well I'm not gonna bother defending Vista (personally I don't think any part of that product justified the 5+ year development cycle) but I will say that without Office Outlook my professional life would be some kind of nightmarish hellscape.



  • Actually in my experience McAfee doesn't work. Unless you consider "oh you have a virus you should do something about it" working. I consider an antivirus working when it blocks and/or removes viruses, not merely reports them.



  • @joemck said:

    Yes, because we all know Microsoft is good at making non-bloated suites that just work...

    I don't know, I've never found office particularly bloated.  A few hundred MB isn't exactly a huge waste of space these days.  I'd much rather just "install everything" versus wasting time picking and choosing components only to be prompted later to insert my disc to install some feature I "smartly" chose not to install in the first place.

    Moreover, I don't really see how cutting down Office would somehow improve productivity, usability or system stability.

    Also, Vista worked for me, but I picked it up post SP1 with my new machine.



  • @lolwtf said:

    Actually in my experience McAfee doesn't work. Unless you consider "oh you have a virus you should do something about it" working. I consider an antivirus working when it blocks and/or removes viruses, not merely reports them.
    It does the opposite for me.  I keep a vnc client on my computers, but on my work machine, McAfee continually deletes it not because it thinks it's a virus, but because it recognizes that it's vnc and thinks that vnc is harmful in some way.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    It does the opposite for me.  I keep a vnc client on my computers, but on my work machine, McAfee continually deletes it not because it thinks it's a virus, but because it recognizes that it's vnc and thinks that vnc is harmful in some way.

    yeah, if you turn it onto ultra-paranoid it gets antsy about remote administration tools

    I've been using the beta of MS-antivirus for a while now, it's small, stable, fast, and there's new updates out about every day... someone noticed the virus definition version was the same as for MS forefront, so I'm assuming it uses the same or similar engine

    It's not especially configurable, but that's why it's the consumer product and not the enterprise product :)



  • @belgariontheking said:

    I keep a vnc client on my computers, but on my work machine, McAfee continually deletes it not because it thinks it's a virus, but because it recognizes that it's vnc and thinks that vnc is harmful in some way.
     

    To be fair, it's really, really easy to use VNC as spyware, since it has a mode to broadcast the computer screen without logging-out the user, or controlling the mouse/keyboard. I'd consider it harmful too.

    Use a remote administration tool that logs out the user while it's active, then you'll be fine.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @belgariontheking said:
    I keep a vnc client on my computers, but on my work machine, McAfee continually deletes it not because it thinks it's a virus, but because it recognizes that it's vnc and thinks that vnc is harmful in some way.
    To be fair, it's really, really easy to use VNC as spyware, since it has a mode to broadcast the computer screen without logging-out the user, or controlling the mouse/keyboard. I'd consider it harmful too.
    Which I would understand if it was blocking the server.  It's just deleting the client program.



  • @Dudehole said:

    Well in a year or so Microsoft is going to fix this mess once and for all and just release their own anti-virus software. OneCare sucked but the new one should be quite sufficient enough to make a lot of these bloated AV suites obsolete.
     

    Is this something different than Forefront ?  I mean, it enables business by managing risk and empowering people.  A product with buzzwords like that has to be good, right?

    (They're using it at my office.  I can't say we have regular virus attacks since we mostly know what we're doing, but it's done nothing but slow the machines down).



  • it uses the same virus definition files as forefront, so presumably the engine in the same or similar, but it's aimed at the consumer.  I haven't digged into it too much, but it doesn't look very customisable, or controllable via group policy - i'd imagine you have to stay with forefront for that.  Though, unlike your experience with forefront, ms antivirus is blazingly fast for me



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.

     

    What about GIMP? 



  • @arty said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @nocturnal said:

    That and ATI's crap x64 driver -- CCC has yet to load successfully

    ...

    What the heck is CCC?

     

    Catalyst control center.  It does thinks like give you hotkeys for changing resolution and video connector.  It's also big and bloated and yucky.  nocturnal is probably lucky to not be tripping over it all the time, unless he's constantly giving presentations on old projectors from a laptop.

     

    I have nvidia and xp x64..

    Registry entry for nvidia equivelent of CCC goes bad... Lets see.

    1) No uninstall PERIOD

    2) Right clicking on a video file causes an explorer error.

    3) Installing new drivers does not fix the problem because it cannot uninstall the old version, or does not know it exits, or whatever.

    4) They don't even offer a tool to remove this crap.

    5) 1 is so powerful that it had to be mentioned 3 times.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @belgariontheking said:
    I keep a vnc client on my computers, but on my work machine, McAfee continually deletes it not because it thinks it's a virus, but because it recognizes that it's vnc and thinks that vnc is harmful in some way.
    To be fair, it's really, really easy to use VNC as spyware, since it has a mode to broadcast the computer screen without logging-out the user, or controlling the mouse/keyboard. I'd consider it harmful too.
    Which I would understand if it was blocking the server.  It's just deleting the client program.

     

    What, you don't remember the mcafee and trend lawsuits against MS when ms introduced the moving kernel (kernel code can live in any part of the memory, and does not have to be loaded the same way every time... which turned out to not be that useful anyways, more of an attempt to foil windows cracks). Which broke their code because they were injecting ring 0 drivers that modify windows file allocation tables and such. They were suing because they claimed ms was fucking up their business. To which AVG and others reponded with make a decent antivirus already, we did, and it works fine.

    In any case these companies need a nice ass-whoopin'. Anti virus measurements need to take into acount how much they fuck with you.



  • Ah, yah. I never install that shit. I used to just select "drivers only" when downloading, now I'm even lazier and just let Windows Update or Steam do my driver updates for me.

    As far as I can tell, that custom nVidia control panel is only useful if you want to rotate a monitor 90 degrees or do some other silly thing that Windows' control panel doesn't already support. When that comes up, I'll go ahead and install it. (It's been a decade and it's yet to come up.)



  • Apparently, this launched today:



  • @astonerbum said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.

     

    What about GIMP? 

    It looks like ass.



  •  @morbiuswilters said:

    @astonerbum said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Sorry, Adobe owns a patent on layers so no one else can use it and that's why FOSS applications look like ass.  It's true, I read it on the Slashdot.

     

    What about GIMP? 

    It looks like ass.

    A working ass :) Wait didn't 3d studio back in the day of dos have layers as well? In fact what about paint shop pro? They are not photoshop but I don't hear about these programs being sued out of existence. I think we need some citation on that patent.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Ah, yah. I never install that shit. I used to just select "drivers only" when downloading, now I'm even lazier and just let Windows Update or Steam do my driver updates for me.

    As far as I can tell, that custom nVidia control panel is only useful if you want to rotate a monitor 90 degrees or do some other silly thing that Windows' control panel doesn't already support. When that comes up, I'll go ahead and install it. (It's been a decade and it's yet to come up.)

     

    As an added bonus, nvidia drivers can ONLY be installed in admin mode in xp x64. Otherwise it causes the computer to boot, crash, boot, crash. boot, crash... etc.

    Yea and it had some settings on that I could not change, which is fustrating caz I can't customize them anymore and they keep getting applied. oy!


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