Headhunter WTF



  • This headhunter calls me up and tells me about this fantastic new opportunity he's working on; the company is having trouble finding qualified candidates, my resume is a point-for-point perfect fit with the job description, and would I be interested?

    Sure, but I'm working now and they're offering $40K less; I'm not looking for a pay cut.

    But times are tough - they won't pay that much.

    Then I'll pass.

    30 minutes goes by.

    Would you do it for $20K less?

    No.

    30 minutes goes by.

    $10K less?

    No.

    But you're a perfect fit!

    I recognize that times ain't the best; I'm not looking for a raise, just a lateral. If I'm so perfect a fit, then they should be willing to do a lateral, otherwise there's no point in me changing jobs other than to give you a commission.

    He's going to get back to me.

    Ya gotta love head hunters...



  • Most headhunters have a strategy that can be describe roughly as "Make incredibly stupid offers for a while so that eventually the moderately stupid offer seems brilliant."  They stick to this strategy for much the same reason spammers keep spamming: the returns make it a worthwhile strategy.



  • @snoofle said:

    ...$40K less...

    ...$20K less...

    ...$10K less...

     

    If you're making $200k/year now that first offer is a 20% pay cut. If you are making less (which I expect is the case for almost anyone) then it's even more of a pay cut.

    If you are such a "perfect fit" and they are "having trouble finding qualified candidates" then why would the lowball the offer so much in the first place? And making new offers $10k at a time just seems moronic. Are they hoping you will have suffered a head injury since the last offer and will think that their less than you are making now offer is suddenly wonderful?

    Seems to me if they were balking at paying you your current salary because "times are tough" then I'd worry about their stability. You could end up taking that 20% pay cut because in 9 or 10 months they might suddenly go away. Or you will.

    I'll never understand headhunters. Too much like car salesmen to me, and I hate car salesmen.



  • @sabbott64 <p>

    I suspect that the employer put the job out at $x/hr and the head hunter wanted to keep as much of that $x as they could, so he kept increasing how much he'd be willing to part with to see if I'd go for it. <p>

    I'm not making anywhere near $200K, but as long as I'm working I'm just not willing to take a cut; if I get laid off, that's another story. <p>

    I am guessing that the company is offering a rate that is approximately equal to my present base salary, but even in this economic climate I get a bonus plus full benefits so an hourly rate equal to my present base works out to a substantial cut and I'm just not going to swallow it just to give some headhunter a fee and part of my paycheck.



  • @sabbott64 said:

    Too much like car salesmen to me, and I hate car salesmen.
    I love car salesmen.  The structure of how they earn commissions is usually filled with potential exploits to save you money.  It's places like VW with their "no haggle" pricing that are ruining for those of us who enjoy haggling.



  • You may have told him what you make now.  I wouldn't have.  If he asks, say "I'm really not interested in telling you that.  Just name some numbers and I'll tell you what I think of them."  He shouldn't need to know that anyway.  You've obviously told him how much you want to make and that should be good enough.



  • @bstorer said:

    @sabbott64 said:

    Too much like car salesmen to me, and I hate car salesmen.
    I love car salesmen.  The structure of how they earn commissions is usually filled with potential exploits to save you money.  It's places like VW with their "no haggle" pricing that are ruining for those of us who enjoy haggling.

    Tell me more about this "haggling" and how to accomplish it, oh master.



  • Some of us don't even make as much as you turned down!



  • @morbius - I make pretty much the max anyone can make while still being a relatively low level cog in a big machine, but I've been doing it for 30 years; those annual increases plus the job-change bumps add up over time.

    I now make more than five times what I made when I first started out, though I'm not sure what it's worth in 1979 dollars...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    1979$1 is worth 2008$2.93

    So in reality you're only making around twice what you did then.



  • @Weng said:

    1979$1 is worth 2008$2.93

    So in reality you're only making around twice what you did then.

    Do me!  Do me!  I started out in 2005 and now make 5 times what I made then.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Congratulations, you make 5 times what you made in 2005 - give or take a few pennies on the dollar.



  • @bstorer said:

    @sabbott64 said:

    Too much like car salesmen to me, and I hate car salesmen.
    I love car salesmen.  The structure of how they earn commissions is usually filled with potential exploits to save you money.  It's places like VW with their "no haggle" pricing that are ruining for those of us who enjoy haggling.

    So I've heard - yet it seems to me that all the people I know who enjoy haggling actually pay more for basically the same stuff when they go to a place that does haggling, versus some place that doesn't.  (That is, they may talk the vendor down to 50% of the 'list price', but that 'list price' was 150% higher than the list price at the competing vendor where I shopped for the same goods, from the same manufacturer.)

    Also, it tends to take long enough that one can bring in more revenue by lowering prices to reasonable amounts, and eliminating that time.

    As such, by eliminating haggling, the only people one hurts is crazy people who want to waste both more time and more money buying the stuff they want.



  • @Weng said:

    Congratulations, you make 5 times what you made in 2005 - give or take a few pennies on the dollar.

    Wewt!  I started out making $100 a week working as a "cable jockey".  I spent most of my time underneath desks, working amongst massive webs of cabling; plugging, unplugging, tracing and replacing.  Of course, I graduated beyond that awhile ago and now I'm in charge of managing almost a dozen servers and I even program software sometimes.  The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.



  • @sabbott64 said:

    I'll never understand headhunters. Too much like car salesmen to me, and I hate car salesmen.

     

    They get say
    $50/hour for the position, so they lowball you for $25/hour and they
    pocket the other 25.  This isn't really their fault, they are just trying to maximize their proffit.  You would do the same thing.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.
    I think someone needs to tell morbs that someone has compromised his account.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.
    I think someone needs to tell morbs that someone has compromised his account.

    Nah, he's just really drunk.  It happens... a lot.



  • @bstorer said:

    @boomzilla said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.
    I think someone needs to tell morbs that someone has compromised his account.

    Nah, he's just really drunk.  It happens... a lot.

    I was not drunk, I was serious...



  • @tgape said:

    So I've heard - yet it seems to me that all the people I know who enjoy haggling actually pay more for basically the same stuff when they go to a place that does haggling, versus some place that doesn't.  (That is, they may talk the vendor down to 50% of the 'list price', but that 'list price' was 150% higher than the list price at the competing vendor where I shopped for the same goods, from the same manufacturer.)

     

    I've found the problem, and it is your math skills.

     

    If you take 50% off of a list price that is 150% of a competing list price you will pay 75% of the competing list price.  Consider:

     

    No Hagglestore: List price $100

    Haggles-R-Us:  List Price $150

     

    Price paid:

    No Hagglestore: $100

    Haggles-R-Us: $75



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Do me!  Do me!  I started out in 2005 and now make 5 times what I made then.

    Where is obligatory "but socialist Obama is going to tax me back to 2005."?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @bstorer said:

    @boomzilla said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.
    I think someone needs to tell morbs that someone has compromised his account.

    Nah, he's just really drunk.  It happens... a lot.

    I was not drunk, I was serious...

    Those aren't mutually exclusive.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I was not drunk, I was totally serial, guys...
    FTFY



  • @alegr said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Do me!  Do me!  I started out in 2005 and now make 5 times what I made then.

    Where is obligatory "but socialist Obama is going to tax me back to 2005."?

    After the US healthcare system collapses it will be more like 2005 B.C.



  • Its funny becausemy friend's company (which has management who sees no value in programmers till recently) is hiring a mid-level programmer for $40k. Which is WAAAY below starting salary for a junior, or maybe a good starting salary for a fresh-out-of-college junior in NYC.

    They are quite confused as to why their candidates are all incompetent, have almost no work experience, and even applied for a position.

    Now my question: Is it really that crazy to think that programmers are critical for your business when you are a software company?



  • @astonerbum said:

    Its funny becausemy friend's company (which has management who sees no value in programmers till recently) is hiring a mid-level programmer for $40k. Which is WAAAY below starting salary for a junior, or maybe a good starting salary for a fresh-out-of-college junior in NYC.

    $40k is plenty to live in New York.  Why, you could afford the finest cardboard box on Park Ave.



  •  @morbiuswilters said:

    @astonerbum said:

    Its funny becausemy friend's company (which has management who sees no value in programmers till recently) is hiring a mid-level programmer for $40k. Which is WAAAY below starting salary for a junior, or maybe a good starting salary for a fresh-out-of-college junior in NYC.

    $40k is plenty to live in New York.  Why, you could afford the finest cardboard box on Park Ave.

    Couldn't he just sleep under his desk and bath himself with paper towels and the bathroom sink?  Not only is it cheap, but it implies a devotion to the company that management is sure to appreciate.



  • @bstorer said:

     @morbiuswilters said:

    @astonerbum said:

    Its funny becausemy friend's company (which has management who sees no value in programmers till recently) is hiring a mid-level programmer for $40k. Which is WAAAY below starting salary for a junior, or maybe a good starting salary for a fresh-out-of-college junior in NYC.

    $40k is plenty to live in New York.  Why, you could afford the finest cardboard box on Park Ave.

    Couldn't he just sleep under his desk and bath himself with paper towels and the bathroom sink?  Not only is it cheap, but it implies a devotion to the company that management is sure to appreciate.

    True.  With the money saved he could afford two meals a day from the street vendors selling rancid kabobs of questionable zoological origin.



  • @tster said:

    @tgape said:

    So I've heard - yet it seems to me that all the people I know who enjoy haggling actually pay more for basically the same stuff when they go to a place that does haggling, versus some place that doesn't.  (That is, they may talk the vendor down to 50% of the 'list price', but that 'list price' was 150% higher than the list price at the competing vendor where I shopped for the same goods, from the same manufacturer.)

     

    I've found the problem, and it is your math skills.

     

    If you take 50% off of a list price that is 150% of a competing list price you will pay 75% of the competing list price.

    Yes, and if you take 50% off of a list price that is 150% higher than the competing price1, you get a price that is 125% of the competing list price.

    No Hagglestore: List price $100

    Haggles-R-Us: List Price $250


    Price paid:

    No Hagglestore: $100

    Haggles-R-Us: $125

    You fail at reading comprehension.

    1 That is, 250% of the competing price.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Weng said:

    Congratulations, you make 5 times what you made in 2005 - give or take a few pennies on the dollar.

    Wewt!  I started out making $100 a week working as a "cable jockey".  I spent most of my time underneath desks, working amongst massive webs of cabling; plugging, unplugging, tracing and replacing.  Of course, I graduated beyond that awhile ago and now I'm in charge of managing almost a dozen servers and I even program software sometimes.  The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.

     

    Does this include the deep nadir of being a PHP-tard who was unemployed for several months thanks to a Canadian company buying your employer out?

    I guess I should applaud you just for finding a job.



  • @TheTXI said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Weng said:

    Congratulations, you make 5 times what you made in 2005 - give or take a few pennies on the dollar.

    Wewt!  I started out making $100 a week working as a "cable jockey".  I spent most of my time underneath desks, working amongst massive webs of cabling; plugging, unplugging, tracing and replacing.  Of course, I graduated beyond that awhile ago and now I'm in charge of managing almost a dozen servers and I even program software sometimes.  The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.

     

    Does this include the deep nadir of being a PHP-tard who was unemployed for several months thanks to a Canadian company buying your employer out?

    I guess I should applaud you just for finding a job.

    It was pretty boring being unemployed, but still far better than being a fat, teetotaling (because his mother was a drunk whore), Obama-loving, marginally retarded (oh, redundant) DotNetNuke themer from backwater West Virginia (redundant again) who thinks a Mitsubishi Eclipse is an "expensive car", who gets paid about as much as McD's assistant manager and who married his ugly whale of a girlfriend after a pregnancy scare that ended up being a false alarm that wasn't all that surprising seeing as his weak, genetically-inferior sperm has trouble navigating its way completely into his cousin's toothless mouth, not to mention through the rancid, hellish cavern that is his wife's diseased womb.



  •  @morbiuswilters said:

    @TheTXI said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Weng said:

    Congratulations, you make 5 times what you made in 2005 - give or take a few pennies on the dollar.

    Wewt!  I started out making $100 a week working as a "cable jockey".  I spent most of my time underneath desks, working amongst massive webs of cabling; plugging, unplugging, tracing and replacing.  Of course, I graduated beyond that awhile ago and now I'm in charge of managing almost a dozen servers and I even program software sometimes.  The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.

     

    Does this include the deep nadir of being a PHP-tard who was unemployed for several months thanks to a Canadian company buying your employer out?

    I guess I should applaud you just for finding a job.

    It was pretty boring being unemployed, but still far better than being a fat, teetotaling (because his mother was a drunk whore), Obama-loving, marginally retarded (oh, redundant) DotNetNuke themer from backwater West Virginia (redundant again) who thinks a Mitsubishi Eclipse is an "expensive car", who gets paid about as much as McD's assistant manager and who married his ugly whale of a girlfriend after a pregnancy scare that ended up being a false alarm that wasn't all that surprising seeing as his weak, genetically-inferior sperm has trouble navigating its way completely into his cousin's toothless mouth, not to mention through the rancid, hellish cavern that is his wife's diseased womb.

    Wow, it must really suck for you to make less money than that guy.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

     

    It was pretty boring being unemployed, but still far better than being a fat, teetotaling (because his mother was a drunk whore), Obama-loving, marginally retarded (oh, redundant) DotNetNuke themer from backwater West Virginia (redundant again) who thinks a Mitsubishi Eclipse is an "expensive car", who gets paid about as much as McD's assistant manager and who married his ugly whale of a girlfriend after a pregnancy scare that ended up being a false alarm that wasn't all that surprising seeing as his weak, genetically-inferior sperm has trouble navigating its way completely into his cousin's toothless mouth, not to mention through the rancid, hellish cavern that is his wife's diseased womb.

    You forgot to mention that cat he murdered with a couch.



  • @bstorer said:

    You forgot to mention that cat he murdered with a couch.
    Well it shouldn't have been steeling his change.  That cat got what it had coming to it: a horrible, smelly fart-filled end.



  • @TheTXI said:

    Wow, it must really suck for you to make less money than that guy.

    I was talking about you, silly.



  • @bstorer said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

     

    It was pretty boring being unemployed, but still far better than being a fat, teetotaling (because his mother was a drunk whore), Obama-loving, marginally retarded (oh, redundant) DotNetNuke themer from backwater West Virginia (redundant again) who thinks a Mitsubishi Eclipse is an "expensive car", who gets paid about as much as McD's assistant manager and who married his ugly whale of a girlfriend after a pregnancy scare that ended up being a false alarm that wasn't all that surprising seeing as his weak, genetically-inferior sperm has trouble navigating its way completely into his cousin's toothless mouth, not to mention through the rancid, hellish cavern that is his wife's diseased womb.

    You forgot to mention that cat he murdered with a couch.

    I must've forgot that one.  Which of the fatties couldn't afford water?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I was talking about you, silly.
     

    Wow, it must really suck for you to make less money than me.



  • @TheTXI said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I was talking about you, silly.
     

    Wow, it must really suck for you to make less money than me.

    Yes, things are horrible in Impossibleland...   pstorer isn't funny but DaveK is, btk is straight and your wife is thin and attractive.



  • @TheTXI said:

     @morbiuswilters said:

    @TheTXI said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Weng said:

    Congratulations, you make 5 times what you made in 2005 - give or take a few pennies on the dollar.

    Wewt!  I started out making $100 a week working as a "cable jockey".  I spent most of my time underneath desks, working amongst massive webs of cabling; plugging, unplugging, tracing and replacing.  Of course, I graduated beyond that awhile ago and now I'm in charge of managing almost a dozen servers and I even program software sometimes.  The sharp ascent of my career has been deeply rewarding (both financially and emotionally) and deeply deserved.

     

    Does this include the deep nadir of being a PHP-tard who was unemployed for several months thanks to a Canadian company buying your employer out?

    I guess I should applaud you just for finding a job.

    It was pretty boring being unemployed, but still far better than being a fat, teetotaling (because his mother was a drunk whore), Obama-loving, marginally retarded (oh, redundant) DotNetNuke themer from backwater West Virginia (redundant again) who thinks a Mitsubishi Eclipse is an "expensive car", who gets paid about as much as McD's assistant manager and who married his ugly whale of a girlfriend after a pregnancy scare that ended up being a false alarm that wasn't all that surprising seeing as his weak, genetically-inferior sperm has trouble navigating its way completely into his cousin's toothless mouth, not to mention through the rancid, hellish cavern that is his wife's diseased womb.

    Wow, it must really suck for you to make less money than that guy.

     

     

    So uh.... I take it this thread got derailed.



  • @Vechni said:

    So uh.... I take it this thread got derailed.

    Really, it was already dead.  Sadly, TheTXI's niece had to start pre-school and without her around to sit on his lap he got bored and stumbled in to troll me.  Just ignore it.



  • Yeah, that is impressive. Gotta gain the skills to make the bucks 🙂



  • @ogilmor said:

    Yeah, that is impressive. Gotta gain the skills to make the bucks 🙂

     

    I've also found the right attitude has a lot to do with it.  You can go in and be helpful and nice and work overtime for free.  Or you could be awesome like me and demean everyone and shirk duties and cultivate an extremely arrogant persona.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @ogilmor said:

    Yeah, that is impressive. Gotta gain the skills to make the bucks 🙂

     I've also found the right attitude has a lot to do with it.  You can go in and be helpful and nice and work overtime for free.  Or you could be awesome like me and demean everyone and shirk duties and cultivate an extremely arrogant persona.

     "Helpfulness" (i.e. "being a tool") will  get you only so far.  Joking aside, having a good attitude will help you be successful.  Common sense, no?  Given equal skills, who would you rather work with, a jerk or a nice guy?



  • @ogilmor said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @ogilmor said:

    Yeah, that is impressive. Gotta gain the skills to make the bucks 🙂

     I've also found the right attitude has a lot to do with it.  You can go in and be helpful and nice and work overtime for free.  Or you could be awesome like me and demean everyone and shirk duties and cultivate an extremely arrogant persona.

     "Helpfulness" (i.e. "being a tool") will  get you only so far.  Joking aside, having a good attitude will help you be successful.  Common sense, no?  Given equal skills, who would you rather work with, a jerk or a nice guy?

    Myself.  Of course, my skills are unparalleled.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @ogilmor said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @ogilmor said:

    Yeah, that is impressive. Gotta gain the skills to make the bucks 🙂

     I've also found the right attitude has a lot to do with it.  You can go in and be helpful and nice and work overtime for free.  Or you could be awesome like me and demean everyone and shirk duties and cultivate an extremely arrogant persona.

     "Helpfulness" (i.e. "being a tool") will  get you only so far.  Joking aside, having a good attitude will help you be successful.  Common sense, no?  Given equal skills, who would you rather work with, a jerk or a nice guy?

    Myself.  Of course, my skills are unparalleled.

    So you never have your girlfriend jacking you off because you're much better at doing it yourself?


  • @bjolling said:

    So you never have your girlfriend jacking you off because you're much better at doing it yourself?

     

    Why would he want her to do something he can take care of himself?  Girlfriends are there to do something we can't:  put it in their mouths.  Now, maybe he's that flexible, maybe he's not...



  • @amischiefr said:

    @bjolling said:

    So you never have your girlfriend jacking you off because you're much better at doing it yourself?

     

    Why would he want her to do something he can take care of himself?  Girlfriends are there to do something we can't:  put it in their mouths.  Now, maybe he's that flexible, maybe he's not...

    Even if I was that flexible, I don't want a dick in my mouth because that is gay.  I'm still going to put a mirror on top of her head so I can look at myself while she pleasures me.



  • So....Are you a jerk or a nice guy?

    In what way are your skills unparalleled?

    Please, bore us all some more 🙂



  • so why u have pic of a hot chick on your profile if u don't want dicks in ur mouth. that's more retarded and gay than people who have "avatars."



  • @ogilmor said:

    so why u have pic of a hot chick on your profile if u don't want dicks in ur mouth. that's more retarded and gay than people who have "avatars."
    I have something you should try to read:



    I'm not sure if you'll be able to, though. "Communication" has an awful lot of letters.



  • @ogilmor said:

    so why u have pic of a hot chick on your profile if u don't want dicks in ur mouth. that's more retarded and gay than people who have "avatars."

     

    So is your picture an actual picture of you?  If so I can see why you're so angry.


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