Moved: Offtopic Discussion w/Katja



  • @CPound said:

    Katja: What is considered a good salary for a seasoned programmer in the Netherlands?

    For example, in the U.S. a seasoned Cold Fusion Developer can make anywhere from $60-$90K annually. If they are making $30K that would be on the low end. $90K is of course ideal, and $60K is more realistic.

    How does that compare with salaries in the Netherlands? (Please convert to U.S. currency please.)

    Don't know, actually. My dad works on a contract-base for one company and does some other small projects when he has some time available for them. Basically, he's self-employed and I think he easily earns over $100K each year. But it actually depends on the orders that he gets. In recent years, I've helped him a bit with some projects for which he made sure I have a bit more cash saved in the bank. [:P]

    I think the average developer here would earn between $3K and $5K per month here, so less than you've mentioned. That's why my dad is self-employed, doing lots of freelance work. It pays a lot better here.



  • Hey Katja, what are the most common programming languages used in the Netherlands? Do people prefer any one over another?

    Delphi perhaps?



  • @CPound said:

    Hey Katja, what are the most common programming languages used in the Netherlands? Do people prefer any one over another?

    Delphi perhaps?

    I think the same as in other countries. VB and C+ of course. Java is popular too these days and C# is gaining popularity. Delphi is a bit declining but I think it will come back again soon. A lot of web languages are popular too, especially PHP and ASP (ASP.NET) but I also noticed that some people are even writing code in VBA as part of their Office documents... But the old Turbo Pascal and even Assembler are still used here.

    But if it's about popularity then I'd say:

    1) VB

    2) Java

    3) C++

    4) Delphi

    But hey, that's just according to some Dutch forum that I visit.



  • Has anyone else noticed the popularity of the "Discussion w/Katja" section?



  • Put a cute chick in your avatar too...



  • @phx said:

    Put a cute chick in your avatar too...

    Huh-huh-huh. He called her "cute". Huh-huh-huh.



  • @Katja said:

     CPound wrote:

    Hey Katja, what are the most common programming languages used in the Netherlands? Do people prefer any one over another?

    Delphi perhaps?

    I think the same as in other countries. VB and C+ of course. Java is popular too these days and C# is gaining popularity. Delphi is a bit declining but I think it will come back again soon. A lot of web languages are popular too, especially PHP and ASP (ASP.NET) but I also noticed that some people are even writing code in VBA as part of their Office documents... But the old Turbo Pascal and even Assembler are still used here.

    But if it's about popularity then I'd say:

    1) VB

    2) Java

    3) C++

    4) Delphi

    But hey, that's just according to some Dutch forum that I visit.



  • I meant to say, "Which one?", but I must've accidentally erased my post before hitting 'Post' :D



    Alex, look what I found in my Javascript console:

    Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure
    code: 0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE)
    [nsIDOMNSHTMLDocument.execCommand]"  nsresult: "0x80070057
    (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE)"  location: "JS frame ::
    http://thedailywtf.com/FreeTextBox/FreeTextBox-MainScript.js ::
    FTB_Initialize :: line 53"  data: no]



  • @aapopfriets said:

    I meant to say, "Which one?", but I must've accidentally erased my post before hitting 'Post' :D

    Alex, look what I found in my Javascript console:
    Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE) [nsIDOMNSHTMLDocument.execCommand]"  nsresult: "0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE)"  location: "JS frame :: http://thedailywtf.com/FreeTextBox/FreeTextBox-MainScript.js :: FTB_Initialize :: line 53"  data: no]

    Well, you're Dutch, I guess. Especially since your name translates to "Monkey on fried potatoes" so the forum I sometimes visit is the Computer Totaal forum. http://forum.computertotaal.nl/phpBB2/index.php has a programming section in case you're interested. Not that I pay much attention to this forum, though... Too many beginners there... [:P]



  • @phx said:

    Put a cute chick in your avatar too...

    [:$] Are you flirting with me? [^o)]



  • @Katja said:

     phx wrote:
    Put a cute chick in your avatar too...

    Embarrassed Are you flirting with me? [^o)]

    lol, no. You can keep the compliment tho ;)



  • Huh-huh-huh. She said "flirt". Huh-huh-huh.



  • Jealous, CPound?...



  • Um...er...[:$]



  • Katja (I'm not even going to try to quote you):

    Yeah, the 'friets' in my name is a combination of 'friet' and 'fiets',
    can't live without the best dish in the world in my nickname. I'm
    really impressed by the guess though, because most people just tell me
    I can't even spell my own name ;)



    I always hang out at http://got.tweakers.net. Sure, some people are
    arrogant there, but they just don't want beginners, only people who
    know stuff and/or don't mind doing some work of their own (STFW and
    RTFM) before dumping their problems in a topic. Maybe you'll feel more
    at home over there ;)




  • Katja, don't you listen to him! He's trying to lure you away from your true friends!

    Katja? Katja?!?



  • @aapopfriets said:

    Katja (I'm not even going to try to quote you):
    Yeah, the 'friets' in my name is a combination of 'friet' and 'fiets', can't live without the best dish in the world in my nickname. I'm really impressed by the guess though, because most people just tell me I can't even spell my own name ;)

    I always hang out at http://got.tweakers.net. Sure, some people are arrogant there, but they just don't want beginners, only people who know stuff and/or don't mind doing some work of their own (STFW and RTFM) before dumping their problems in a topic. Maybe you'll feel more at home over there ;)

    I have no problem quoting you, though... [8-|]

    Well, your name is indeed a bit weird at first. I thought about 'friet', 'fiets' and even 'fries' as possible mixtures. Or 'fies' but that's spelled wrong...

    I know tweakers and a few other forums too but I just don't have time to respond to all those forums to begin with. Some of them have an extremely high frequency of posting so if you're away one day, you'll have to read hundreds of messages the next day... Besides, I like the english-language forums slightly better because you meet more people from all over the world there. Besides, it's good practice for me in this weird, foreign language,,,

     

    Wow, page 5 already, all for me... [:$]

    Now, let's try this...

    @CPound said:

    Katja, don't you listen to him! He's trying to lure you away from your true friends!

    Katja? Katja?!?

    Yep, the two quotes work too... [:D]

    Don't worry, CPound. I like this forum quite well because it teaches me things that I should not do... [8-|]



  • Hey Katja, what's a typical day like for a "student" in Amsterdam? Do you do typical American-like things, such as "hang out at the mall"? I bet Amsterdamians go to clubs and/or discoteques (if that's how you spell it). There is some weird attraction with the pulsating Euro-beat...

    I imagine during the evenings (when you are not out partying at the clubs) you sit at home watching American broadcasts.

    Am I pretty close?



  • My average day? They're not that average to begin with but in general, I get up around 6:30, turn on the coffee,take a shower, wake the other 3 girls with whom I share my place, get dressed, make breakfast for myself, get my books and other stuff and then schooltime. Since I have a driver's license and a car, I'm the designated driver of the four of us so we all just go in my car. Not easy to find a parking space but hey, if I leave early, I always get one.

    Then it's time to do the school stuff. Listen to teachers, get more homework, a bit talking with friends during the free moments until it's time to go home again. In general, we all four go home at the same moment so I'm driving them all home again. And then my duties are finished and I can spend time online or doing my homework.

    The other girls take care of the household and of course dinner. Since I'm the one driving, I never have to cook. (Hmmm, let me think. I did cook once for them but after that time, they all volunteered to cook in my place instead...) I don't have to hang on the phone with my friends since we all share the same house. It's actually quite cost-effective...[;)]

    Oh, well... On friday and saturday evening we do go out sometimes but hey... If you have a whole house for the four of you, then why not use it to party there... All we have to do is buy some chips, something to drink, make sure we have some good music and things can become quite fun at home too. Of course, limited to good friends only but it's a lot cheaper than going to clubs, bars, coffeeshops, disco's or whatever else. (Especially since those clubs charge the same amount in Euro's for drinks as they used to do in Guilders. Two Euro for a glass of cola is a pure rip-off. I can buy a whole bottle for that amount! So we're not often going out.

    About sitting at home watching TV... Well, we have a widescreen TV but we all want to see different things. Besides, I'm a bit computer-addicted so I prefer to sit in my room behind my computer. And the computer has a special TV card so I can watch TV while reading the WTF at the same time. [:P]

    Shopping is fun too, btw. Again, I'm the designated driver and the car makes sure we can do a lot of shopping if need be. Unfortunately, the inner city of Amsterdam is difficult to reach by car so when we go shopping for clothes, we prefer the public transit. Which means we can't buy too much because we have to carry it all too.

    The malls like those in the USA are unfamiliar here, btw. There are large shopping centres here but I prefer the local supermarket. Free parking there...

    And when the weather is nice, you won't find us at home. You can find us at the beach though, playing beach-volleyball if possible. And getting a nice tan of course.



  • Katja: thanks for the info. I take it you don't "date" much as it would intrude on your computer time?

    Actually, that's really smart. Complete yourself before you get involved in complex (unecessary) relationships.



  • Actually, one of the house rules is "no guys in the house". So dating would become a bit troublesome. But no, I don't spend that much time on my computer anyway. It's useful for my homework and as a reference while studying but if there's a good movie on TV or one of the girls has rented a nice DVD then we're all on the couch in the living room, cola and chips nearby. Better even than a movie theatre since at home I can wear anything I like while watching a movie. And we happen to have a big widescreen TV with a good sound system so it's real fun...



  • @Katja said:

    Better even than a movie theatre since at home I can wear anything I like while watching a movie.

    ...[:$]...



  • Well, watching a movie at home can be quite comfortable. I get home,
    eat dinner, sometimes take a quick shower and then watch the movie
    dressed in just a bathrobe and a pair of bunny-eared slippers. If I'd
    be in a movie-theatre dressed like that, I'd probably be either laughed
    at by everone or admired by all the guys. Or both...



  • Plus you would probably be pretty cold.

    What with you living in the Netherlands and everything...



  • Well, I'm quite used to the cold weather here. I'm already at the beach
    when it's only 20C. Which is what? 50 to 60F? The Netherlands actually
    has a quite moderate weather in general, since we're so close to the
    sea. This winter it barely even snowed, and I can forget about skating
    on natural ice for now since there's barely any ice where I like to
    skate.

    Oh, well... I like the winter just as much as our summers.



  • Do you skate close to the "dykes"? (Is that the correct term?) You know, the walls that hold all the water back?

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">And do they ever tell you, "Don't ram into the dyke, you'll flood the country." or something like that?</FONT>



  • @CPound said:

    Do you skate close to the "dykes"? (Is that the correct term?) You know, the walls that hold all the water back?

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">And do they ever tell you, "Don't ram into the dyke, you'll flood the country." or something like that?</FONT>

    I thought it is Dike, not Dyke. And the Dutch dikes are pretty large in general. But most of them aren't there to keep the sea out, but to make sure the big rivers don't flood areas located on the other side of the dikes.

    Dutch dikes are pretty solid, btw. And as long as we have a bit rainy summers, they will hold quite well. But when it gets too dry, the dikes will become dry and as a result a bit lighter than water. And floating dikes don't stop water that well, as has been proven last year...

    Against the sea, we have the dunes, not dikes. Just huge piles of sand of high quality are keeping most of the sea in the sea and outside the Netherlands. [:)] Which makes out beaches so nice and soft. No rocks on our beaches...

    And on those dikes that just keep the rivers in the river you can often drive with your car, since there are roads located on top of them! They can handle quite a lot so a small girl like me can't really harm such a big pile of sand.

     

    Oh, one more nice fact about dikes. You would expect that they are there to stop the water but no... Dikes are actually quite full with water. They are actually quite wet on the inside, unless it's very dry weather. (Then they start floating...) The trick of those dikes however is to make sure the water flows very slowly in the areas that they are supposed to keep dry. That way, the bit of water that does get through can easily be moved away to other locations. So basically, dutch dikes always leak...



  • I am so ignorant of the Netherlands...[:$]



  • It's weird to read how people think about us. [:|] [:P]



  • And mayonaise on chips is nice!



  • @Menzel said:

    And mayonaise on chips is nice!

    Ewww... I dislike mayonaise. That stuff will make you as fat as an American... [:P]



  • <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">I like mayo...[:$]</FONT>



  • Say, CPound, what's your current weight? [:P]



  • @Katja said:

    Say, CPound, what's your current weight? Stick out tongue

    Compared to Europeans, I'm probably huge. But compared to another US citizen, I'm average to slim.

    I'll leave it at that. [;)]



  • Are you more a curry sauce person Katja? Or no sauce at al?.



    With my 76 Kg, 186 cm I don't see myself as a fat person....



  • @Menzel said:

    Are you more a curry sauce person Katja? Or no sauce at al?.

    With my 76 Kg, 186 cm I don't see myself as a fat person....

    Wow, you're 15 KG fatter than I am. And we are the same length... So, compared to me, you are huge... [:P]

    I like Curry, yes, but not as sause. And I prefer potatoes cooked, not fried in fat... At least someone here in this forum needs to take care of her figure... [:$]

     

    (Are we at page 6 already? No...)



  • @Katja said:

    And we are the same length...

    I find it fascinating how you refer to your “length”. It must be a Netherlands/Euro type of thing, because in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>US</st1:place></st1:country-region> we use "length" for measuring things which are horizontal. Things like tables and fish. In the US, we measure human beings vertically (i.e. standing up) in “height” terms. It’s “how tall are you?” not “how lengthy are you?”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

    <o:p> </o:p>

    <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> is a very special place.



  • @KoFFiE said:

    when you lie down on your bed - you can measure yourself horizontally Big Smile Wink

    I'm going to have to try that. Maybe it will make the measuring process easier.



  • I find it fascinating how you refer to your “length”. It must be a Netherlands/Euro type of thing, because in the US we use "length" for measuring things which are horizontal.

    Interesting, I always thought "length" is just the size of the long side, and width the size of the the short side of something.

    Is that proper english or american english? :-)



  • Have to agree with joodie here. Length is just the longest side and
    width the short side. With most two-dimensional items that is. And
    while humans are 3D objects, no one really asks for all three
    dimentions. (Width, Depth and Height.) Most just want to know 2
    dimensions or even just one. Length is the most important one here,
    since it indicates the longest side. Means only an extremely fat dwarf
    will have a bit of problems since his longest side might be
    horizontal...[:P]



  • Hmmph.

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">(I wish there was an arms-folded emoticon.)</FONT>



  • I know it's a semantic thing, but this is really interesting to me. 



    I hate to be redundant, but I just have to state this...



    I have a hard time with the notion that what we in america think of as
    "height" is considered a "side" there. Sides are horizontal, either
    length or width.   By your definition, something that is 2
    meters wide, 2 meters long, and 8 meters high has a "length" of 8
    meters????



    Come to think of it, I guess I'd be more interested in the length or
    width of someone rather than their height, when considering their
    relative attractiveness.  :)






  • From the Oxford Guide to the English Language:

    Height: Measurement from base to top or head to foot.

    Length: Measurement or extent from end to end.

    Width: distance from side to side.

    So according to these definitions, if someone is lying down, he's only a foot or so high. But his length stays unchanged because it's measured between the two ends. (And in general, the ends of an oblect are the two parts with the biggest distance in-between. And width? Width is used to measure any side and not just the front side or side side.

    So if you say that you're 6 feet high then I hope you didn't measure yourself while lying down on the floor or we'll have to call the people from "Save the whales" to push you back in the ocean...

     

    (And wow. 6 pages only about me here...[:P])



  • Yup...6 pages and counting. I hope Alex is noticing this. So maybe he'll really consider your avatar for the WTF logo.

    Whaddya say Alex?


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @CPound said:

    Yup...6 pages and counting. I hope Alex is noticing this. So maybe he'll really consider your avatar for the WTF logo.

    Whaddya say Alex?

    While I haven't followed the entire discussion, I noticed it got pretty large ... I'm impressed! Maybe we can come up with a new forum outside of General Discussion (as that's a bit too ... general).

    As for the logo, I'm going to post a vote thing on monday -- but only for logos that fit the "Stamp" concept (sorry [;)]) ... and this because I want to make actual rubber stamps -- that'd be sweet!



  • Well, just consider making an alternate logo...one for the "hardcore" members. With Katja on it. It's like a reward for us for being faithful or something.

    Do you think you could make a stamp with Katja's avatar?



  • Oh yeah, one more thing...if you look at Katja's avatar you'll notice this expression on her face as she's sipping from the coke bottle...it essentially says "WTF!"

    I think it's very applicable.



  • You are absolutely correct about people in the US and subtitles. Most people fall asleep watching films where they "have to read". The movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon for example...as action-packed as it was, I know many people who snored through the whole thing.

    And just out of curiosity, what is it about Anime that people love so much? What is the attraction?



  • I would be an exception to that generalization - not that I often do
    it, but I have no problem with subtitles... I can read quite quickly,
    and also consider it a useful tool for learning something about other
    languages. 



    Sometimes, while watching DVDs, I'll turn on the foreign language subs
    and learn that way as well (mostly spanish ones, since I'll never
    pronounce french correctly, nor do I care to, and those are the most
    common "other" languages on the DVDs I own)



    As far as Anime goes, I really can't stand it.    The
    animation style gets old, the storylines aren't very
    unique.   And I've seen a few truly shocking / disgusting
    ones that border on or completely are child-pornography, which I'm told
    are quite common in japan... 



    I'm glad to be an American!!










  • I guess you just have to get used to reading subtitles but the biggest advantages of subtitles is that you learn to read pretty fast and often you also pick up something from a foreign language.

    To be honest, when I watch DVD's these days, I tend to switch to the English subtitles instead of my native (Dutch) language, because it helps me to learn to read English a lot better. It's great for learning a foreign language.

     

    And Anime? Aren't those just adult cartoons, full violence and sexual references? Guess that's the thing that attracts viewers. [:)]


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