Goose Typing



  • "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a goose" - that seems to be SQL Server's interpretation of duck typing:

    create table duck(quack float)
    create table goose(gak int)

    insert duck values(0.1)
    insert duck select isnull(gak,quack) from duck left join goose on 1=1

    select * from duck where quack = 0

    (1 record selected)

    One might give SQL the benefit of the doubt that, while this code certainly quacks like a duck, it might walk like a goose, but it took me a while to figure out why a large database contained a couple of zero values that shouldn't be.



  • @JvdL said:

    select * from duck where quack = 0

    (1 record selected)

    Ah, there's your problem.  No quack. 



  • @JvdL said:

    One might give SQL the benefit of the doubt that, while this code certainly quacks like a duck, it might walk like a goose, but it took me a while to figure out why a large database contained a couple of zero values that shouldn't be.
     

    Are you trying to imply that Microsoft software might contain bugs?



  • @rohypnol said:

    Are you trying to imply that Microsoft software might contain bugs?

    Is that meant to be a dig at microsoft? Most software contains bugs, I have found that (established) MS products generally contain less bugs per feature than many alternatives. The problem is that they don't keep upgrading the same thing, they release new versions with sweeping changes so it just takes a little time to baton it down. Previous comments still stands, though, as most re-implementations of OSS seem to suck for a while as well.



  • @Howi said:

    Is that meant to be a dig at microsoft?

    It's meant to be a troll.

    @Howi said:

    All software contains bugs

    FTFY



  • @DaveK said:

    @JvdL said:

    select * from duck where quack = 0

    (1 record selected)

    Ah, there's your problem.  No quack. 



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        <div class="CommonDescription">The message you are replying to: Re: Goose Typing</div>
        
        
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    				                <b>lolwtf wrote the following post at Thu, Feb 26 2009 1:14 AM:</b>
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    				                        <div id="ctl00_ctl00_bcr_bcr_PostForm__QuoteText">@DaveK said:<blockquote><p>@JvdL said:<blockquote></p><pre><code>select * from duck where quack = 0<br><br><b>(1 record selected)</b></code></pre><p></blockquote> Ah, there's your problem.&nbsp; <a href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-No-Quack.aspx" mce_href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-No-Quack.aspx" title="The original post (well, original re-post)" target="_blank">No quack.</a>&nbsp;</p></blockquote></div>
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%23163%3b38+to+send+me+a+letter.&amp;Stimulation+of+the+CLIT+is+not+advised&amp;Stimulation+of+the+CLIT+is+not+advised&amp;subliminal+messages+make+me+sick&amp;subliminal+messages+make+me+sick&amp;subtlety&amp;subtlety&amp;superman&amp;superman&amp;syntax+error&amp;syntax+error&amp;t&amp;t&amp;tag+cloud+attack&amp;tag+cloud+attack&amp;tag+cloud+attacks+are+lamer+than+this&amp;tag+cloud+attacks+are+lamer+than+this&amp;Tag+goes+here&amp;Tag+goes+here&amp;tag+reuse&amp;tag+reuse&amp;tag_clouds_are_lame&amp;tag_clouds_are_lame&amp;tags+are+used+so+i+can+find+my+lost+kitten&amp;tags+are+used+so+i+can+find+my+lost+kitten&amp;tags+lol&amp;tags+lol&amp;Take+that!&amp;Take+that!&amp;Takes+a+sip+of+magma+from+mug+decorated+with+weighted+companion+cubes+and+cake&amp;Takes+a+sip+of+magma+from+mug+decorated+with+weighted+companion+cubes+and+cake&amp;Tales+from+the+interview&amp;Tales+from+the+interview&amp;TDWTFWTF&amp;TDWTFWTF&amp;tech+support&amp;tech+support&amp;Technology+is+better+if+it+has+an+%22X%22+in+it.&amp;Technology+is+better+if+it+has+an+%26quot%3bX%26quot%3b+in+it.&amp;Tell+me+about+it.+The+first+time+I+turned+on+my+1680x1050+20%22+I+cut+myself.&amp;Tell+me+about+it.+The+first+time+I+turned+on+my+1680x1050+20%26quot%3b+I+cut+myself.&amp;Telstra&amp;Telstra&amp;Terry+Pratchett+got+knighted&amp;Terry+Pratchett+got+knighted&amp;testing&amp;testing&amp;TeX&amp;TeX&amp;THAT+WAS+QUITE+SLOW+BECAUSE+I+NEEDED+TO+CORRECT+SEVERAL+LOWER-CASE+LETTERS+I+TYPED+BECAUSE+I+PRESSED+SHIFT+OUT+OF+HABIT.&amp;THAT+WAS+QUITE+SLOW+BECAUSE+I+NEEDED+TO+CORRECT+SEVERAL+LOWER-CASE+LETTERS+I+TYPED+BECAUSE+I+PRESSED+SHIFT+OUT+OF+HABIT.&amp;That%27s+racist!&amp;That%27s+racist!&amp;That%27s+what+friends+are+for.&amp;That%27s+what+friends+are+for.&amp;That%27s+what+they+taught+me+in+public+school+at+least...&amp;That%27s+what+they+taught+me+in+public+school+at+least...&amp;The+Atlantic+Ocean+cannot+stop+curses&amp;The+Atlantic+Ocean+cannot+stop+curses&amp;the+complaining+about+hp+club&amp;the+complaining+about+hp+club&amp;The+Excel+Flightsim+team&amp;The+Excel+Flightsim+team&amp;The+foolish+built+his+house+upon+the+decimal+timestamp&amp;The+foolish+built+his+house+upon+the+decimal+timestamp&amp;The+ice+Stone+Has+Melted!&amp;The+ice+Stone+Has+Melted!&amp;the+interview+jokes+are+getting+to+old+for+even+me+now+%3aD&amp;the+interview+jokes+are+getting+to+old+for+even+me+now+%3aD&amp;The+more+you+know...&amp;The+more+you+know...&amp;the+new+COKE+Math&amp;the+new+COKE+Math&amp;The+package+mailing+capabilities+of+email+combined+with+the+speed+of+snail+mail&amp;The+package+mailing+capabilities+of+email+combined+with+the+speed+of+snail+mail&amp;The+real+WTF+are+people&amp;The+real+WTF+are+people&amp;the+real+WTF+is+the+universe&amp;the+real+WTF+is+the+universe&amp;The+robots+will+probably+take+over+the+wrong+planet+by+mistake&amp;The+robots+will+probably+take+over+the+wrong+planet+by+mistake&amp;the+train+approaching+platform+5+is+the+0.5639+service+to+Glasgow+Central&amp;the+train+approaching+platform+5+is+the+0.5639+service+to+Glasgow+Central&amp;The+Truth+cannot+stop+ignorant+posters&amp;The+Truth+cannot+stop+ignorant+posters&amp;there+is+no+link&amp;there+is+no+link&amp;there+is+no+spoon&amp;there+is+no+spoon&amp;This+guy+must+own+stock+in+a+company+that+makes+AIDS+cures.&amp;This+guy+must+own+stock+in+a+company+that+makes+AIDS+cures.&amp;This+has+been+tips+and+tricks+with+btk&amp;This+has+been+tips+and+tricks+with+btk&amp;This+is+just+as+retarded+as+the+idiots+who+say+copyright+infringement+isn%27t+theft+because+copying+digital+media+doesn%27t+%22take%22+anything+or+because+they+weren%27t+going+to+buy+it+anyway...&amp;This+is+just+as+retarded+as+the+idiots+who+say+copyright+infringement+isn%27t+theft+because+copying+digital+media+doesn%27t+%26quot%3btake%26quot%3b+anything+or+because+they+weren%27t+going+to+buy+it+anyway...&amp;This+is+starting+to+look+familiar.&amp;This+is+starting+to+look+familiar.&amp;This+just+sort+of+turned+into+a+semi-off-topic+criticism+of+how+binaries+are+handled+in+the+FOSS+ecosystem...&amp;This+just+sort+of+turned+into+a+semi-off-topic+criticism+of+how+binaries+are+handled+in+the+FOSS+ecosystem...&amp;This+place+really+is+turning+into+Slashdot...&amp;This+place+really+is+turning+into+Slashdot...&amp;This+site+may+harm+your+computer&amp;This+site+may+harm+your+computer&amp;This+thread+is+now+a+browser+war&amp;This+thread+is+now+a+browser+war&amp;three+must+be+better&amp;three+must+be+better&amp;throw+new+TagException()&amp;throw+new+TagException()&amp;throw+new+T%d0%b0gException()&amp;throw+new+T%d0%b0gException()&amp;time+warner&amp;time+warner&amp;TinyMCE&amp;TinyMCE&amp;to+lazy+to+change+subject&amp;to+lazy+to+change+subject&amp;TODO%3a+finish+tags&amp;TODO%3a+finish+tags&amp;toinform+viaemail&amp;toinform+viaemail&amp;Too+many+cooks+in+the+kitchen&amp;Too+many+cooks+in+the+kitchen&amp;Too+obvious&amp;Too+obvious&amp;toolchain&amp;toolchain&amp;totally+sfw&amp;totally+sfw&amp;TOTY&amp;TOTY&amp;toys&amp;toys&amp;tr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    Thu, Feb 26 2009 1:14 AM

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                          Re: Goose Typing
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                          <blockquote><div><img src="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/Themes/leanandgreen/images/icon-quote.gif" mce_src="../Themes/leanandgreen/images/icon-quote.gif"> <b>DaveK:</b></div><div><blockquote><div><img src="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/Themes/leanandgreen/images/icon-quote.gif" mce_src="../Themes/leanandgreen/images/icon-quote.gif"> <b>JvdL:</b></div><div><pre><code>select * from duck where quack = 0<br><br><b>(1 record selected)</b></code></pre></div></blockquote> Ah, there's your problem.&nbsp; <a href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-No-Quack.aspx" mce_href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-No-Quack.aspx" title="The original post (well, original re-post)" target="_blank">No quack.</a>&nbsp;</div></blockquote>
                          
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    Thu, Feb 26 2009 3:23 AM



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                          Re: Goose Typing
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      							        Thu, Feb 26 2009 1:14 AM    
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      									    Re: Goose Typing
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      									    <blockquote><div><img alt=""> <b>DaveK:</b></div><div><blockquote><div><img alt=""> <b>JvdL:</b></div><div><pre><code>select * from duck where quack = 0<br><br><b>(1 record selected)</b></code></pre></div></blockquote> Ah, there's your problem.&nbsp; <a href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-No-Quack.aspx" mce_href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-No-Quack.aspx" title="The original post (well, original re-post)" target="_blank">No quack.</a>&nbsp;</div></blockquote>
      									    
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      							    <div><span id="ctl00_ctl00_bcr_bcr_ctl00_PostList_ctl07_ctl23_ctl01">Filed under: <a rel="tag">community server blows goats</a>, <a rel="tag">Nominated for... what DO we give for good posts anyway?</a></span></div>
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      				    </tbody></table><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I agree with whatever lolwtf just said.&nbsp;</p>
                          
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    I divided by zero. OSHII--

     



  • isnull returns the data type of the check expression (by design), gak, which is DT int, value is null, quack 0.1 therefore converts to int, returning 0. Annoying and unexpected perhaps, but not a bug.



  • Read the docs next time.  You want COALESCE, not ISNULL.



  • @Howi said:

    @rohypnol said:

    Are you trying to imply that Microsoft software might contain bugs?

    Is that meant to be a dig at microsoft? Most software contains bugs, I have found that (established) MS products generally contain less bugs per feature than many alternatives. The problem is that they don't keep upgrading the same thing, they release new versions with sweeping changes so it just takes a little time to baton it down. Previous comments still stands, though, as most re-implementations of OSS seem to suck for a while as well.

    I think you meant "button it down", but I like the idea of beating my code into submission with a stick.



  • @CDarklock said:

    @Howi said:

    All software contains bugs

    FTFY

     What about the UNIX 'true', 'false', 'echo', and 'cat' programs? Actually useful and easily possible to write without bugs.

     

     



  • @samanddeanus said:

    @CDarklock said:

    @Howi said:

    All software contains bugs

    FTFY

     What about the UNIX 'true', 'false', 'echo', and 'cat' programs? Actually useful and easily possible to write without bugs.

     

    ORLY?  Shouldn't they all still be at version 1.0.0, if that was so?



  • @DaveK said:

    @samanddeanus said:

    @CDarklock said:


    @Howi said:

    All software contains bugs


    FTFY



     What about the UNIX 'true', 'false', 'echo', and 'cat' programs? Actually useful and easily possible to write without bugs.


     

    ORLY?  Shouldn't they all still be at version 1.0.0, if that was so?

    /******<br> * true
    *
    * v1.01 - Fixed return value
    * v1.0 - Initial release
    *
    *
    /

    int main ()
    {
    // return 1;
    // Apparently UNIX expects 0 on success.
    return 0;
    }



  • @DaveK said:

    @samanddeanus said:

    What about the UNIX 'true', 'false', 'echo', and 'cat' programs? Actually useful and easily possible to write without bugs.

     

    ORLY?  Shouldn't they all still be at version 1.0.0, if that was so?

     

    Maybe they needed to be updated when things like the C syntax changed to be able to be compiled with newer versions of gcc (or whatever) Or a new license. Or when someone FIXMEs it...

    [code]
    zemm@brio:~$ /bin/echo --version
    echo (GNU coreutils) 6.10
    Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
    This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
    There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

    Written by FIXME unknown.
    [/code]

     I actually googled for a changelog of the coreutils and found some frightening entries! All software has bugs!



  • @Zemm said:

    <font face="Lucida Console">
    zemm@brio:~$ /bin/echo --version
    echo (GNU coreutils) 6.10
    Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later &lt;http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html&gt;
    This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
    There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

    Written by FIXME unknown.
    </font>


    Funny, I got:

    $ /bin/echo --version
    --version



  • @Random832 said:

    @Zemm said:

    <font face="Lucida Console">
    zemm@brio:~$ /bin/echo --version
    echo (GNU coreutils) 6.10
    Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later &lt;http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html&gt;
    This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
    There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

    Written by FIXME unknown.
    </font>


    Funny, I got:
    $ /bin/echo --version
    --version

    I suspect you actually typed "echo --version" but cut and pasted the OP's use of "/bin/echo" when you composed your post.

    Either that or you're on a SUN box or something odd like that. 



  • "something odd like that" = "anything other than GNU/Linux", right?



  • @Random832 said:

    @DaveK said:
    @Random832 said:
    Funny, I got:
    $ /bin/echo --version
    --version

    I suspect you actually typed "echo --version" but cut and pasted the OP's use of "/bin/echo" when you composed your post.

    Either that or you're on a SUN box or something odd like that. 

    "something odd like that" = "anything other than GNU/Linux", right?

    POSIX actually requires echo not to recognize any options (except for possibly -n).



  • @Spectre said:

    POSIX actually requires echo not to recognize any options (except for possibly -n).
    POSIX sounds like a jerk.  He thinks he's so great because his name ends in "IX"?  Screw him!



  • @Random832 said:

    Funny, I got:

    $ /bin/echo --version
    --version

     

    My paste was from Ubuntu 8.04. I get the same as you on Mac OSX 10.5.

    I did /bin/echo as echo is a shell builtin and also just echoed "--version".



  • @CDarklock said:

    @Howi said:

    All software contains bugs

    FTFY

     

    Does not. Here I present the worlds smallest bug-free and self-replicating code (it outputs itself to stdout). not invented by myself btw (see ioccc)

    Here it comes:



  •  Calling one-liner programs "software" is like calling a linux user with root privileges an "administrator".

    Consider these:

    "All software contains bugs"

    "All  non-trivial software behaving in different ways depending on input have bugs".

    They're both saying the same thing,  only with different options.



  • @dtech said:

    @CDarklock said:

    @Howi said:

    All software contains bugs

    FTFY

     

    Does not. Here I present the worlds smallest bug-free and self-replicating code (it outputs itself to stdout). not invented by myself btw (see ioccc)

    Here it comes:


    Filed under: you'll see i'm right, just compile it with gcc<input name="ctl00$ctl00$bcr$bcr$ctl00$PostList$ctl22$ctl23$ctl01" id="ctl00_ctl00_bcr_bcr_ctl00_PostList_ctl22_ctl23_ctl01_State" value="value:Filed%20under%3A%20%3Ca%20href%3D%22%2Ftags%2Fyou_2700_ll%2Bsee%2Bi_2700_m%2Bright%2Fdefault.aspx%22%20rel%3D%22tag%22%3Eyou'll%20see%20i'm%20right%3C%2Fa%3E%2C%20%3Ca%20href%3D%22%2Ftags%2Fjust%2Bcompile%2Bit%2Bwith%2Bgcc%2Fdefault.aspx%22%20rel%3D%22tag%22%3Ejust%20compile%20it%20with%20gcc%3C%2Fa%3E" type="hidden">
    						    </td>
    					    </tr>
    				    </tbody></table>
    			    
    		    
    		        <a title="193032" class="" name="193032"></a></blockquote> Your program has a bug:<p><blockquote></p><pre>~ $ gcc -g -O2 -o nullprog -x c - &lt; /dev/null<br>/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-cygwin/4.3.2/../../../libcygwin.a(libcmain.o):(.text+0xab):<br> undefined reference to `_WinMain@16'<br>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status<br>~ $<br></pre></blockquote> I'm fairly sure it won't link on Linux platforms either.<br>


  • @dtech said:

    Here I present the worlds smallest bug-free and self-replicating code (it outputs itself to stdout).

    I hereby assert that this is not code. Per Wikipedia:

    "...any collection of statements or declarations written in some human-readable computer programming language."

    You can parse this two different ways:

    1. "...any collection (of statements or declarations written in some human-readable computer programming language)."

    2. "...any collection (of statements or declarations) written (in some human-readable computer programming language)."

    I assert that the latter is more sensible, and that your collection is not code because it has not been written - since there is nothing to write.

    It is entirely possible to argue that this is both code and not-code, from which I would be forced to infer that you have been to the maze and retrieved the black particle, and therefore that further discussion with you is pointless.



  • @dtech said:

    Does not. Here I present the worlds smallest bug-free and self-replicating code (it outputs itself to stdout). not invented by myself btw (see ioccc)

    Here it comes:

     It does not compile with gcc. The ioccc entry just chmodded it executable in the Makefile. Plus I already mentioned /bin/true which could be implemented by a blank file.



  • @CDarklock said:

    2. "...any collection (of statements or declarations) written (in some human-readable computer programming language)."

    I assert that the latter is more sensible, and that your collection is not code because it has not been written - since there is nothing to write.


    The program is a collection of statements written in a [snip] language. The empty collection is a subset of every possible set, hence it is a subset of the set "all of the possible combinations of statements in a programming language"



  •  As an ammendum to the blank program (stolen from the judges report)

     "

        To use:
    make smr
    ./smr

    "

    "

    While strictly speaking, smr.c is not a valid C program, it is
    not an invalid C program either! Some C compilers will compile
    an empty file into a program that does nothing. But even if your
    compiler can't, the build instructions supplied with this entry
    will produce an executable file. On most systems, the stdout
    from the executable will exactly match original source.

    "



  • @dtech said:

     As an ammendum to the blank program (stolen from the judges report)

     "

        To use:
    make smr
    ./smr

    "

    There's a bug in this program.  Doesn't compile.

     

    ~ $ cd /tmp
    /tmp $ mkdir smr
    /tmp $ cd smr
    /tmp/smr $ make smr
    make: *** No rule to make target `smr'. Stop.
    /tmp/smr $

    And just to make sure it wasn't a bogus error message, I searched my entire hard drive after running that command.  There weren't any non-existent zero byte files there afterward that hadn't already been there before, so I'm sure it failed; it must have, it didn't even invoke the compiler.

    @dtech said:

    While strictly speaking, smr.c is not a valid C program, it is
    not an invalid C program either! Some C compilers will compile
    an empty file into a program that does nothing. But even if your
    compiler can't, the build instructions supplied with this entry
    will produce an executable file. On most systems, the stdout
    from the executable will exactly match original source.

    "

    Well, far be it from me to quibble with the judges of the IOCCC, but they're wrong.  That is neither a valid C program nor an invalid C program - nor is it any kind of C program at all - or rather, to just the same extent, it's a neither-valid-nor-invalid C++ program.  Err, no wait a minute, I mean it's a yacc .Y file.  No!  A .L file for input to flex!  And it outputs a C file not remotely related to it's own source!  No, hang on, I'm wrong.  It's assembler, that's clearly a nonexistent .S file there.  Errrr....



  • > /bin/echo --version
    --version
    > uname -a -H
    Windows Thorin 4.0 SP6 x86 Intel_x86_Family15_Model4_Stepping1



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    > /bin/echo --version
    --version
    > uname -a -H
    Windows Thorin 4.0 SP6 x86 Intel_x86_Family15_Model4_Stepping1

    I believe SFU/Interix/the NT Posix subsystem is very much exactly what I was describing when I said "something odd" :-)

    ackspitooie   Anyway, if you've got NT4, you should be running Cygwin b20.  Apparently that was the best version they ever did.

     


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