Interview feedback: the new way?



  • Recently I applied for a job at a bank in a near-by city. At the interview I learned that the job was quite unlike the advertised position but was still intesting, and I was still interested.

    At the end of the inteview the main recruiter, Julie, stated she would let me know their descision in about ten days. Two weeks later I see the same job re-advertised on the same website. Is this how recruitment people "let you know" these days?



  • I was under the impression that they normally don't inform you when you are not accepted for the job (even in the past), and saying that you'd get confirmation later is only true if you do get the job, since informing you didn't will give the non-potential-hire a chance to freak-out putting the interviewer in a very awkward situation. Not that you'd be the one that does freak out, they just don't want the chance of it happening. Although some employers are generally nice enough to tell you why you didn't get the job, and if not they'll tell you that you didn't, but those a few and far between.



  • @Lingerance said:

    I was under the impression that they normally don't inform you when you are not accepted for the job (even in the past), and saying that you'd get confirmation later is only true if you do get the job, since informing you didn't will give the non-potential-hire a chance to freak-out putting the interviewer in a very awkward situation. Not that you'd be the one that does freak out, they just don't want the chance of it happening. Although some employers are generally nice enough to tell you why you didn't get the job, and if not they'll tell you that you didn't, but those a few and far between.
     

    I've never been turned down for a job, but I would expect a a company to inform you if they decided not to hire you if you were applying for a professional position.



  • @tster said:

    @Lingerance said:

    I was under the impression that they normally don't inform you when you are not accepted for the job (even in the past), and saying that you'd get confirmation later is only true if you do get the job, since informing you didn't will give the non-potential-hire a chance to freak-out putting the interviewer in a very awkward situation. Not that you'd be the one that does freak out, they just don't want the chance of it happening. Although some employers are generally nice enough to tell you why you didn't get the job, and if not they'll tell you that you didn't, but those a few and far between.
     

    I've never been turned down for a job, but I would expect a a company to inform you if they decided not to hire you if you were applying for a professional position.

    That would be nice, but unfortunately has never been the case in my experience.  I've only had a few jobs I have interviewed for and not received the position, but only once have they ever contacted me afterwards and told me why I was rejected.  Then again, a lot of those places were pretty WTFy in their own right and I generally left the interview not really wanting the position anyway.  The places I have been hired have also been WTFy and after observing the hiring process from the inside I can say it mostly consisted of pulling names out of a hat or whatever particular mood the interviewer was in that day.  These were mostly small companies (less than 50 employees), though, so maybe in larger, more organized companies a response in the case of rejection is more normal.  Personally I don't like larger companies, though, so I never apply for positions there... 



  • It's amazing how unprofessional interviewers can be.

    From what I've directly experienced and heard, they'll almost always tell you they'll let you know, but won't actually contact you unless you get the job.

    Mostly it's cowardice. If they can just avoid unsuccessful applicants, they won't have to directly deal with disappointing people. It's unprofessional, but then a great number of people are.

    I think the shoddiest experience I had was interviewing for a small company who offered me the job, but tried to lowball the salary offer with the usual "it's such a fun place to work, it's like a little family, money's not the most important thing" attitude*. I got back to them with a somewhat higher figure, as is the custom in haggling, and rather than accepting or refusing, they just never got back to me. I'm honestly glad not to have ended up working for a pack of wankers like that (although I have ended up working for other wankers in the end).

    * I hate this approach for two reasons. The first is that I'm supposed to really care about the success of a company that hasn't actually hired me yet, and may turn out to be shit anyway. The second is that you can't guarantee a minimum number of warm, fuzzy feelings in an employment contract, so if it turns out to be not as fun as described there's precisely fuck all short of leaving you can do about it.



  •  Hey, it could be worse. I once applied for a small temporary position at a non-ict (non-profit) company. When I heard the details of the job I said I would consider it (which I really did). Afterwards I called the interviewer and email both the interviewer and the HR person.

    I have had a total of 3 calls and 2 emails over a period of 6 weeks where they asked me to still take the job, that can be irritating too...



  • What the heck happened to common courtesy? Why isn't it common any more?

    If you have got as far as an interview then I believe courtesy demands they let you know the results. It doesn't have to be a phone call, it could be a letter (physical or electronic). On a related note, I feel that if a recruiter is nervous about calling someone and saying "sorry, you didn't get the position" then they are in the wrong job.

    B



  •  It's been a while since I applied for a permanent position (I'm a contractor now), but this seems to be how it goes:

    • If they are interested, the company will contact you pretty soon after your interview.
    • If they don't want you, they won't answer within the time frame they mentioned. Some companies send out notifications as an afterthought (up to one month after they close the hiring process). Others will not send you anything.
    • Asking the prospective employer for a status is useless. By the time you think they should have reached a conclusion, they have already hired someone else.
    • If a job posting returns, it could be a fake position. (Advertisement space in the job section tends to be cheaper than in other parts.)



  • From my experiences, they will tell you on the spot or the next day if they're going to hire you.  Anything more than that, keep looking.

    The one exception to this though... in college I interviewed for a few really bad jobs that I wouldn't have wanted.  I could pretty much tell so didn't put much effort into having the interview go well.  Sometimes would get offers from them like 4 or 5 weeks after the interview.  This basically meant they made offers to other people, and those people didn't take it (because they also realized the job sucked).  You obviously don't want to work in a place like that.



  •  It's not that hard for them to send an email, it's not like they have to deal with a bad reaction... Then again some people might reply to those...



  • @ggeens said:

     It's been a while since I applied for a permanent position (I'm a contractor now), but this seems to be how it goes:

    • If they are interested, the company will contact you pretty soon after your interview.
    • If they don't want you, they won't answer within the time frame they mentioned. Some companies send out notifications as an afterthought (up to one month after they close the hiring process). Others will not send you anything.
    • Asking the prospective employer for a status is useless. By the time you think they should have reached a conclusion, they have already hired someone else.
    • If a job posting returns, it could be a fake position. (Advertisement space in the job section tends to be cheaper than in other parts.)

    Makes sense, but I'm curious about point 4 (or more likely have missed the point).  What's to be gained by advertising and interviewing for a fake position?



  • @ggeens said:

    What's to be gained by advertising and interviewing for a fake position?

    Sometimes HR folks like to keep a constant flow of current resumes in case an emergency-hiring situation comes up (you know, when someone unexpectedly quits/dies and they need to fill it *tomorrow* - of course a crock, as nobody is productive on day one).

    Personally, I think the lack of response from hiring managers goes along the lines of why, at the end of a so-so/bad date, you say: I'll call you, knowing full well you never will.

     



  • @drinkingbird said:

    Mostly it's cowardice. If they can just avoid unsuccessful applicants, they won't have to directly deal with disappointing people. It's unprofessional, but then a great number of people are.

     

    It's actually more a case of avoiding the recruiter than avoiding the unsuccessful applicants.  When you're dealing directly with candidates and you get one that's just blatantly unqualified, and I mean "shouldn't even be applying for jobs in this field, let alone at this company" unqualified, you have the option of using some cop-out like "we don't think you'd really be such a good fit" or "we've decided to give the position to somebody else."  Recruiters, on the other hand, like to drive employers crazy asking for the exact reasons why somebody was turned down, and after the 5th time telling them "well, it might have something to do with the fact that you were obviously on crack when you sent him to us", it just gets old and tiresome.

    Some of the employers are really jerks, I'm sure, but most of the time, if someone really wants to hire you, you'll know it by the end of the interview, and if they don't call you back at all it means you weren't even in their top 3.  Keep in mind that you're attending relatively few interviews (probably), so it may seem to you like only a few minutes for a paltry courtesy call, but if a company has interviewed 50 people in the past week, you really can't expect them to call back every single one of them unless they've got an HR department to delegate to.

    So yeah, when we say "we'll let you know", it means "we'll let you know IF we have an offer for you", not "we'll let you know exactly what our decision is".



  • @Aaron said:

     Keep in mind that you're attending relatively few interviews (probably), so it may seem to you like only a few minutes for a paltry courtesy call, but if a company has interviewed 50 people in the past week, you really can't expect them to call back every single one of them

     

    If they have time to interview 50 people, they probably have time to call 50 people.  Hell, You could send 50 form emails in like 5 minutes. 

    The real reason companies don't call you is that if their top 4 choices don't accept the position then they want to be able to pull you up and offer you the job without making it seem like you were only picked because everyone else turned them down.  Of course, if you don't hear back form them within a couple of days, you should assume that they chose someone else.  Furthermore, it wouldn't bother me if I was the 4th person they wanted.  If the job is non-WTF and the pay is good then who cares how many people turned them down.



  • @ggeens said:

    If they don't want you, they won't answer within the time frame they mentioned. Some companies send out notifications as an afterthought (up to one month after they close the hiring process). Others will not send you anything.
    I love getting emails saying "we've filled this position" two months after I've accepted another position.

    That said, I've been on all points in this spectrum, from calling me (twice) to tell me they went with someone else and why (they found someone with the "nice to haves"), to never calling again, to telling me in the interview "yeah, we were looking for someone ... older."



  • @Zagyg said:

    What's to be gained by advertising and interviewing for a fake position?
    I bet there's some advantage to keeping your company's name on the job boards, even if you're not actually looking to hire anyone.  In which case, why even take interviews?  If your name is on the job board, you've succeeded at the lame, subtle form of advertising.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    @Zagyg said:

    What's to be gained by advertising and interviewing for a fake position?
    I bet there's some advantage to keeping your company's name on the job boards, even if you're not actually looking to hire anyone.  In which case, why even take interviews?  If your name is on the job board, you've succeeded at the lame, subtle form of advertising.

    Whoever said it above was mostly right: places with high turnover that frequently need to fill positions may not having an opening when they post the ad, but by the time they interview it's possible and opening could have come up.  Not only that, but it gives them a pool of "maybes" that they can contact up to 6 months later should they need someone on short notice.  Another common scenario (especially with the recent economic downturn) is that projects will end up cancelled due to budgetary constraints, etc.  It doesn't seem uncommon for a project to cancelled because no suitable candidate can be found for the right price.  So companies may put out "feelers" while the project is still not set in stone.  I wouldn't really call any of these strategies "lame" even though they are interviewing for a position that may not even exist. 



  • @belgariontheking said:

    ... to telling me in the interview "yeah, we were looking for someone ... older."
    I'm going to assume that you weren't born in 1907 but 1967, in which case you can sue them for age discrimination. ☺



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    @belgariontheking said:
    ... to telling me in the interview "yeah, we were looking for someone ... older."
    I'm going to assume that you weren't born in 1907 but 1967, in which case you can sue them for age discrimination. ☺
    Actually, 1982. You know what happens when you assume, right?



  • @tster said:

    If they have time to interview 50 people, they probably have time to call 50 people.

    WTF?  That's like saying "If you can afford to pay $100, you can afford to pay $150."  Specious reasoning at best.

    The real reason companies don't call you is that if their top 4 choices don't accept the position then they want to be able to pull you up and offer you the job without making it seem like you were only picked because everyone else turned them down.  Of course, if you don't hear back form them within a couple of days, you should assume that they chose someone else.  Furthermore, it wouldn't bother me if I was the 4th person they wanted.  If the job is non-WTF and the pay is good then who cares how many people turned them down.

    Yes, this might be true in a lot of cases.  But again, when dealing with recruiters specificaly, they tend to bring in a lot of blatantly unqualified people whom the employers wouldn't even call as a last resort.  I'll put it this way - in some cases, "we'll call you" is actually short form for "don't call us, we'll call you."



  • @Aaron said:

    @tster said:

    If they have time to interview 50 people, they probably have time to call 50 people.

    WTF?  That's like saying "If you can afford to pay $100, you can afford to pay $150."  Specious reasoning at best.

     

    No, it's more like saying that if they can afford to spend $10,000 they can probably affor to spend $10,100.  You see the cost of interviewing someone isn't double the cost of calling them back and telling them no.  The cost to interview someone will range anywhere from $100 (like a small business) to $1,000 or more.  However, the cost to call someone back will always be about $2.  If you mail or email them instead the cost will be maybe $0.60 or $0.25 respectively. 



  • I have generally been successful in my interview history. Although this past year, I had an extremely WTF-y experience with a technology Consulting company.

    First Phone Interview with HR went well. At the end, we scheduled a Phone Interview with the Development Manager the following week.Phone interview with Development Manager went well. He called back later that day and scheduled another Phone Interview with a Lead Developer the following week. Interview with Lead Developer went VERY well. We saw eye-to-eye on many things that mattered a lot to him.

    Over the next 3 weeks things started to get flaky. I would follow-up at least once a week, only to be put off. Then, out of the blue, the HR rep calls and asks if I can be there NEXT WEEK. This job was a good 14-hour drive from where I was living. I told her that no, unfortunately, I would need to give 2 weeks notice at my current job and needed some time also to get moved. The next day, the Development Manager calls and says that they want to hire me for a specific project and asks if I have experience developing Manufacturing Software and also Oracle DB experience. I told him that I did not, or both would have certainly been listed on my resume. No problem, he says, he wants me to interview with the Client the next day. The client asks the same questions of me and I give the same responses. The Development Manager is flabbergasted that the interview did not go well.

    This was in August. In the meantime, I have moved across the country for another position. The Consulting Company called me two weeks ago asking me if I was still interested in a job with them.

    Crazy.



  • @jpaull said:

    First Phone Interview with HR went well. At the end, we scheduled a Phone Interview with the Development Manager the following week.Phone interview with Development Manager went well. He called back later that day and scheduled another Phone Interview with a Lead Developer the following week. Interview with Lead Developer went VERY well. We saw eye-to-eye on many things that mattered a lot to him.

    Over the next 3 weeks things started to get flaky. I would follow-up at least once a week, only to be put off. Then, out of the blue, the HR rep calls and asks if I can be there NEXT WEEK. This job was a good 14-hour drive from where I was living. I told her that no, unfortunately, I would need to give 2 weeks notice at my current job and needed some time also to get moved. The next day, the Development Manager calls and says that they want to hire me for a specific project and asks if I have experience developing Manufacturing Software and also Oracle DB experience. I told him that I did not, or both would have certainly been listed on my resume. No problem, he says, he wants me to interview with the Client the next day. The client asks the same questions of me and I give the same responses. The Development Manager is flabbergasted that the interview did not go well.

    QFWTF


  • @tster said:

    The cost to interview someone will range anywhere from $100 (like a small business) to $1,000 or more.  However, the cost to call someone back will always be about $2.  If you mail or email them instead the cost will be maybe $0.60 or $0.25 respectively. 

     

    Very nice, quantifying the cost in salary-hours and ignoring the effects of stress and distraction, the opportunity cost, and the actual ROI.  You'd make a good PHB.

    This is in addition to the fact that you've blatantly pulled these numbers out of your ass.



  • @Aaron said:

    @tster said:

    The cost to interview someone will range anywhere from $100 (like a small business) to $1,000 or more.  However, the cost to call someone back will always be about $2.  If you mail or email them instead the cost will be maybe $0.60 or $0.25 respectively. 

     

    Very nice, quantifying the cost in salary-hours and ignoring the effects of stress and distraction, the opportunity cost, and the actual ROI.  You'd make a good PHB.

    This is in addition to the fact that you've blatantly pulled these numbers out of your ass.

     1.  If you interviewed 50 people then you have an HR department
    that will be doing the calling.  Since this is part of their primary
    job there is no stress or distraction.  If you are refering to sending
    emails then there certainly isn't any stress or distraction since it
    would take about 3 minutes to pull up the form email and send it to a
    list of people.

    2.  I assumed a cost of $100/hour for your
    employees.  If you can justify a higher cost than this for an HR person
    or some lower level manager in the unlikely case that they set up 50
    interviews then I would love to hear it.

    3.  You might not like
    that I pulled numbers from the air, but this is how business is done. 
    Managers don't run a cost-benefit analysis on if they should call back
    an interview candidate to tell them they aren't hired.  They
    good-enough numbers from their head and realize that the cost is
    negligable.  

    4.  You entirely missed the point.  Even if you
    said that the cost per employee hour was $10,000 then the cost is still
    negligible compared to the cost of actually conducting an interview. 
    The point is that if it cost $n to conduct an interview, it costs
    probably less than ($n * .02) to make a phone call.

     




  • @Iago Espino said:

    At the end of the inteview the main recruiter, Julie, stated she would let me know their descision in about ten days. Two weeks later I see the same job re-advertised on the same website. Is this how recruitment people "let you know" these days?

    Little update: The day after I submitted this item, I was both rung and emailed about not getting the position. Timing is everything. 

     



  • @Iago Espino said:

    @Iago Espino said:

    At the end of the inteview the main recruiter, Julie, stated she would let me know their descision in about ten days. Two weeks later I see the same job re-advertised on the same website. Is this how recruitment people "let you know" these days?

    Little update: The day after I submitted this item, I was both rung and emailed about not getting the position. Timing is everything. 

     

     

    other than that it sucks that you didn't get the position, this postmade me chuckle heartily.


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