Phyton to java and more fun



  • For those of you who don't know: I'm a CS student. So I frequently work with different people on different types of projects.

    A few weeks ago I met a "funny" guy. You probably know the type of guy: short, a bit too much weight, 100% open-source, 100% command-line and living 80% of his time in his mother's basement with 2 keyboards and 4 lcd's (he told so myself: 1 for general-command line, 1 for vi, 1 for git/svn and 1 for the only GUI sin he allows himself: Iceweasel, a "100% OS" fork of Firefox)

    This leads to interesting situations. For example he always carries his ergonomic keyboard togethern with his 17" laptop (with the windows-logo peeled of and slackware installed) wich is quite the sight during colleges or practicals.

    Did I mention he hates everything even related to windows? That means he won't use a lot of the programs required for the study. He also despises Java (even though it is our main programming language) and only uses Java programs if there's absolutely no alternative (he even uses the alternative if the alternative is incompatible and/or inferior). This ,as I'm told, has led to "interesting" situations in previous projects.

    Anyway, he's not all that bad of a guy, just a bit annoying. Especially in discussions.

    He's a [b]huge[/b] fan of python. He thinks its the best language ever made. If it were up to him, it would replace everything from cloud-computing software to Java to ASP.NET to assembler. He also sees no use for strict-typed languages and hates the semilocon (; in english right?) and tells everyone who'll (pretend) to listen that newlines are all anyone could ever need to close a software command.

    Anyway, while working on my practical he came over for a chat. He reminded me again about how much he hated Java and told me his latest lifework: he was building a phyton to java converter, so he would still meet the requirement "the project must be written in Java" while still be able to code in phyton. I can't wait for the looks on the faces of his teammates and Student-assistand, after they see the prably horrible (generated) code.

     

    P.S. O, and morbs, you'd like him! He's a enormous fan of xkcd and doesn't let any opportunity let by to quote one, tell one again and/or explain one in lengthy detail



  • Find a mac fanboy and put them in the same room!



  • @Daid said:

    Find a mac fanboy and put them in the same room!
     

    If you add a windows fanboy the apocalypse will probably finally occur.



  • I bet if you mention Jython he'll have an aneurysm.

     



  •  I don't like Java (or any statically-typed language) all that much, either.  Otherwise, he sounds like the worst human being who has ever lived.



  •  WTF is "Phyton"?

    Hating Java: normal (in fact, Java actually sucks).

    Saying Python is the best language ever: TRWTF.



  • Are you sure you want to insult him in public?  After all, he is doing your practical for you.



  • Well, most of those opinions/behaviours aren't completely ridiculous, and could be defended in some way, but I guess the combination of all of them makes for a nasty package.

    Is he a new student? I hope that at some point he'll just realize what an idiot he's being, and learn to be more reasonable about his opinions

    <font size="small><subs>

    (says he who wrote 90% of one minor university Java project in Python and got full marks)

    </subs></font>



  • I wonder if he knows that VB doesn't use semi-colons and uses newlines to terminate the command.  Anyways, when he gets on your nerves you can just think about how after graduation you'll get a job making lots of money and he will be trying to find a company that will hire someone who refuses to use most languages other than python.



  • erm... dude... hi? Didn't you know I read these forums too.

    Screw you man, Python rocks.

    [code]import antigravity[/code]

    flies away



  • Why do i get the feeling that 'Love of python' and 'love of XKCD' are linked?



  • @pbean said:

    erm... dude... hi? Didn't you know I read these forums too.

    Screw you man, Python rocks.

    <FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2>import antigravity</FONT>

    *flies away*

    If pbean is really the guy you were referring to, then that is the most awesome thing I've read.



  •  Here's an easy solution: use Jython to compile the Python code to Java bytecode, then throw the bytecode through a decompiler.  There's no possible downside!



  • This leads to interesting situations. For example he always carries his ergonomic keyboard [b]together[/b] with his 17" laptop (with the windows-logo peeled off and slackware installed) wich is quite the sight during colleges or practicals.

    How is he using Slackware if he is using Iceweasel, which is [b]Debian[/b]'s version of Firefox? I thought Iceweasel is just Firefox with different branding and ports for other architectures.



  • @samanddeanus said:

    This leads to interesting situations. For example he always carries his ergonomic keyboard together with his 17" laptop (with the windows-logo peeled off and slackware installed) wich is quite the sight during colleges or practicals.

    How is he using Slackware if he is using Iceweasel, which is Debian's version of Firefox? I thought Iceweasel is just Firefox with different branding and ports for other architectures.

    Slackware can be made to install .deb packages. 



  • Iceweasel's the only really pure version of FireFox around so anyone who cares about freedom will go around to try and install that on their distro of choice.



  • @pbean said:

    Iceweasel's the only really pure version of FireFox around so anyone who cares about freedom will go around to try and install that on their distro of choice.
     

    Is, by any chance, one half of your face painted blue?



  • @sibtrag said:

    Are you sure you want to insult him in public?  After all, he is doing your practical for you.

     

    I wasn't really insulting him. Just ehh.. "Pointing out" some quirks. Besides, he didn't do it for me (he even did another version so it wouldn't be possible)



  • @ebs2002 said:

    If pbean is really the guy you were referring to, then that is the most awesome thing I've read.
     

    I don't really think he is. For example this post hints that he's using windows, which I'm almost sure he rarely uses. On the other hand this thread is something he could've started.

    Well, I met him earlier today and he didn't mention it. I didn't bring it up because I just now read the thread and so hadn't read the post of pbean yet.



  • @pbean said:

    Iceweasel's the only really pure version of FireFox around so anyone who cares about freedom will go around to try and install that on their distro of choice.

    I pray you are joking. 



  • Ok, completely off-topic, but I have to ask.  morbius, what's up with the avatar change?



  • @campkev said:

    Ok, completely off-topic, but I have to ask.  morbius, what's up with the avatar change?

    He's rebranding in an effort to capture a wider audience.  To that end, he's moving away from the universally-derided MFD, and leveraging one of the most well-loved images on the internet: some random Asian female.  Synergistically, said female is giving a hand gesture that could be subconciously construed as a shocker, thus creating excitement in younger demographics, such as the tweeners who are so rich with disposable income.  However, since the gesture isn't the shocker, it gives morbiuswilters deniability that will enable him to retain high approval numbers with focus groups that skew older.  In addition, he is prepared for the paradigm shift that will accompany the digital television conversion next February; all polling trends point to an expectation for more definition, such as switching to a color image in lieu of crude line art.



  • @bstorer said:

    @campkev said:

    Ok, completely off-topic, but I have to ask.  morbius, what's up with the avatar change?

    He's rebranding in an effort to capture a wider audience.  To that end, he's moving away from the universally-derided MFD, and leveraging one of the most well-loved images on the internet: some random Asian female.  Synergistically, said female is giving a hand gesture that could be subconciously construed as a shocker, thus creating excitement in younger demographics, such as the tweeners who are so rich with disposable income.  However, since the gesture isn't the shocker, it gives morbiuswilters deniability that will enable him to retain high approval numbers with focus groups that skew older.  In addition, he is prepared for the paradigm shift that will accompany the digital television conversion next February; all polling trends point to an expectation for more definition, such as switching to a color image in lieu of crude line art.

    Bravo, sir. 



  • @bstorer said:

    Synergistically, said female is giving a hand gesture that could be subconciously construed as a shocker
     

    The shocker, no. That's her fuckin' metal face.



  • @durendal.mk3 said:

    The shocker, no. That's her fuckin' metal face.

    QFT.  I'm not even sure what the shocker is, but I'm guessing it's one of those fancy new sex moves the kids are always doing.  Back in my day we were happy just having the Filthy Sanchez and the Cincinatti Steamer.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Cincinatti Steamer.
    Boy you learn something every day.

    BTW, it's Cincinnati.   Unless you're a Reds baseball player and the equipment manager hates you*.

    * a reference to a player in the 90s who had "Cincinnati" mispelled on his jersey.  I don't remember who and I dunno if the information exists on the internet, so I'm not gonna bother to try.  I don't even remember exactly how it was misspelled.  I remember on the news they said, "It's one thing to be a losing pitcher.  It's another thing to be a losing pitcher with <misspelling> on your jersey.



  • @dtech said:

    @ebs2002 said:

    If pbean is really the guy you were referring to, then that is the most awesome thing I've read.
     

    I don't really think he is. For example this post hints that he's using windows, which I'm almost sure he rarely uses. On the other hand this thread is something he could've started.

    Well, I met him earlier today and he didn't mention it. I didn't bring it up because I just now read the thread and so hadn't read the post of pbean yet.

     

    How would I otherwise know that you were born in 1990, study at the TU Delft, your computer has an AMD X2 3800+ CPU and your screen in a Samsung 205BW? Naturally I don't simply break it to you when we meet... that would be awkward. Who discusses a forum topic in RL... if anyone would hear that I frequent forums rather than newsgroups, they'd kill me for sure.



  • Don't you just hate that perpetually crowded bus 121?



  • @pbean said:

    Iceweasel's the only really pure version of FireFox around so anyone who cares about freedom will go around to try and install that on their distro of choice.
    Uhh, no. Lern2Research and stop spouting religious nonsense, please.

    Mozilla doesn't want people using Firefox to refer to anything but Mozilla's official builds, because they want to make legally liable people who maliciously modify the source code to send credit card numbers to an e-mail address and still call it Firefox. Mozilla wants to avoid damaging the Firefox name.

    Debian has a long-standing policy of rolling their own updates, for accountability reasons; there are contracts in place. Functional, non-security updates are traditionally excluded from already-released Debian versions, for the same reasons. Debian wants to avoid damaging the Debian name.

    Mozilla felt that Debian's roll-your-own practices exceeded the bounds of the changes they could make to the browser and still call it Firefox, so they yanked the branding license. Thus, Debian could no longer use the Firefox name. They came up with a name that was evocative of the original, yet still distant enough to avoid lawsuits: Iceweasel.

    Both the binaries and the source code of Mozilla Firefox are on much more favorable license terms than "Debian Iceweasel, based on Mozilla browser technology", and more up-to-date as well. It's only the name and the logo that's non-free.

    Speaking of, the copy of Iceweasel on your computer has the credit card stealing patch I snuck in. Debian can't do anything to me for making that change, because Iceweasel is "free". Gotcha! :P



  • @pbean said:

    <font face="Lucida Console" size="2">import antigravity</font>

    flies away

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

     I don't like Java (or any statically-typed language) all that much, either.  Otherwise, he sounds like the worst human being who has ever lived.

     

    statically typed prevents caziness that I see at work... ok no you can write shit in any language... You should tell your classmate that python is for whimps, the only true language is binary and anyone coding otherwise is an ub3r n00b. Also show him how easy it is to download porn on windows using torrents and compare it to his experience on hus ub3r l33t slackware. And while you enjoy the bounding tits, he will enjoy compiling his kernel so he can install sound drivers.



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    @pbean said:

    Iceweasel's the only really pure version of FireFox around so anyone who cares about freedom will go around to try and install that on their distro of choice.
    Uhh, no. Lern2Research and stop spouting religious nonsense, please.

    Mozilla doesn't want people using Firefox to refer to anything but Mozilla's official builds, because they want to make legally liable people who maliciously modify the source code to send credit card numbers to an e-mail address and still call it Firefox. Mozilla wants to avoid damaging the Firefox name.

    Debian has a long-standing policy of rolling their own updates, for accountability reasons; there are contracts in place. Functional, non-security updates are traditionally excluded from already-released Debian versions, for the same reasons. Debian wants to avoid damaging the Debian name.

    Mozilla felt that Debian's roll-your-own practices exceeded the bounds of the changes they could make to the browser and still call it Firefox, so they yanked the branding license. Thus, Debian could no longer use the Firefox name. They came up with a name that was evocative of the original, yet still distant enough to avoid lawsuits: Iceweasel.

    Both the binaries and the source code of Mozilla Firefox are on much more favorable license terms than "Debian Iceweasel, based on Mozilla browser technology", and more up-to-date as well. It's only the name and the logo that's non-free.

    Speaking of, the copy of Iceweasel on your computer has the credit card stealing patch I snuck in. Debian can't do anything to me for making that change, because Iceweasel is "free". Gotcha! :P

    Wow, your explanation is even more insane and wrong than his.  It was rebranded because Debian doesn't consider the icons and branding free since they are copyrighted in a non-free way.  That's it.  There is a flag to enable or disable the official Mozilla branding at compile-time and Iceweasel is just Mozilla with a different flag.  Then there was some bitching and butthurt between the Debian freetards and the Mozilla idiots and many inflammatory blog postings were made, etc...

     

    Really, though, it sounds like you pulled this theory out of the same place the Debian idiots pulled this "controversy".



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    Debian has a long-standing policy of rolling their own updates, for accountability reasons; there are contracts in place. Functional, non-security updates are traditionally excluded from already-released Debian versions, for the same reasons. Debian wants to avoid damaging the Debian name.

    Which brought us the fabulous RNG bug in OpenSSL. Way to go, the Debian team; you made a WTF worthy of the Main Page! (and the main page of The Register, and Bruce Schneier's CRYPTO-GRAM, and yes, even XKCD.)

    I have a friend who also went python-only and refused to touch Windows platforms for anything other than Starcraft. Problem is, he successfully locked himself out of many Linux jobs because they ask for C or PHP, not Python; and other jobs ask for Win2000/Win2003 Server knowledge. While I prefer Linux myself, I did learn to admin Win2003 Server, many Active Directory features and even managed to do some authentication and user management modules on Java for AD.

    I landed one project with the aforementioned "user management" software, and two sysadmin jobs which involved managing W2k/W2k3 servers, as well as some Linux ones. My friend only landed one project, and that was because it was for a custom-made software he sold.

    He finally had to cease the python-mania when I got him a job, as it a was shell-only dev house (and no python installed.) Java was allowed, but just barely.

    But I'd say the worst case I've seen in "only in my language" is with one Cocoa worshipper. He refuses to code in anything other than ObjC/Cocoa, and whenever he does go into the Windows world of programming, he tries to copy the Aqua look-and-feel into Windows.



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    Mozilla doesn't want people using Firefox to refer to anything but Mozilla's official builds, because they want to make legally liable people who maliciously modify the source code to send credit card numbers to an e-mail address and still call it Firefox. Mozilla wants to avoid damaging the Firefox name.

    Speaking of, the copy of Iceweasel on your computer has the credit card stealing patch I snuck in. Debian can't do anything to me for making that change, because Iceweasel is "free". Gotcha! :P

    Do you really think people who steal credit card numbers care about violating trademarks and copyright? Mozilla tries to use its copyright licence to "clarify" the trademark situation, which makes it a "non-free" copyright licence.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    It was rebranded because Debian doesn't consider the icons and branding free since they are copyrighted in a non-free way.  That's it.
    Man, I was wondering if all that was true or not.  thanks for setting the thread straight.



  • @dhromed said:

    Don't you just hate that perpetually crowded bus 121?

    You mean the one that stops at the Prof. Telderslaan, which is about 50 meters from the street where I live? Sure. it's crowded, it's also always late and sometimes never shows up.

     Yeah, this long time lurker registered so that he could make this comment. Meh.



  • @Kevin said:

    You mean the one that stops at the Prof. Telderslaan, which is about 50 meters from the street where I live? Sure. it's crowded, it's also always late and sometimes never shows up.
     

    Oh, by the time it's there, it's mostly empty already, having spilled its contents out by the concrete frog.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    It was rebranded because Debian doesn't consider the icons and branding free since they are copyrighted in a non-free way.  That's it.
    Man, I was wondering if all that was true or not.  thanks for setting the thread straight.
     

    Well, to be totally accurate, because of the non-free artwork, a Debian packager circumvented the "official" build process and included generic branding but with the Firefox name, which Mozilla called them out on. This is from the Bugzilla thread, and pretty much sums up the issue:

    > I had to break the switch, because I need to call it Firefox, but I
    > can't include the official graphics.
    >
    I've confirmed that this isn't acceptable usage of the trademark. If
    you are going to use the Firefox name, you must also use the rest of the
    branding.
    >> Why can't you just use the official branding switch, anyway?
    >>
    >
    > Because it uses graphics which have a non-free copyright license.
    >
    This is not something where you are free to pick what parts you want to
    use. Either use the trademarked logos and name together or don't.

    (cue a long copyright-vs-trademark-law debate.) Debian opted to rebrand instead of include what they considered copyright-encumbered artwork, which was central to using the Firefox name. The alternative was to submit to Mozilla any patches made by the team, even for security purposes specific to Debian, even if a downstream patch affected a previously frozen release. Iceweasel allows Debian to abide by its own free software principle and maintain control over all content in its official distribution. It does seem silly to me that two very popular free software organizations couldn't come to some equitable agreement, really. It's a huge waste of everybody's time to worry about forking and repackaging Firefox, Thunderbird, and Seamonkey, over, basically, 8-bit icon art.



  • @sootzoo said:

    @belgariontheking said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    It was rebranded because Debian doesn't consider the icons and branding free since they are copyrighted in a non-free way.  That's it.
    Man, I was wondering if all that was true or not.  thanks for setting the thread straight.
     

    Well, to be totally accurate, because of the non-free artwork, a Debian packager circumvented the "official" build process and included generic branding but with the Firefox name, which Mozilla called them out on. This is from the Bugzilla thread, and pretty much sums up the issue:

    > I had to break the switch, because I need to call it Firefox, but I
    > can't include the official graphics.
    >
    I've confirmed that this isn't acceptable usage of the trademark. If
    you are going to use the Firefox name, you must also use the rest of the
    branding.
    >> Why can't you just use the official branding switch, anyway?
    >>
    >
    > Because it uses graphics which have a non-free copyright license.
    >
    This is not something where you are free to pick what parts you want to
    use. Either use the trademarked logos and name together or don't.

    (cue a long copyright-vs-trademark-law debate.) Debian opted to rebrand instead of include what they considered copyright-encumbered artwork, which was central to using the Firefox name. The alternative was to submit to Mozilla any patches made by the team, even for security purposes specific to Debian, even if a downstream patch affected a previously frozen release. Iceweasel allows Debian to abide by its own free software principle and maintain control over all content in its official distribution. It does seem silly to me that two very popular free software organizations couldn't come to some equitable agreement, really. It's a huge waste of everybody's time to worry about forking and repackaging Firefox, Thunderbird, and Seamonkey, over, basically, 8-bit icon art.

    How was what I said any less accurate?  Debian didn't want to use the icons, Mozilla said "use the icons or lose the branding" so they re-branded it.  And yes, it is immensely retarded and shows what a bunch of inflexible twats the Debian people are.  That such petty arguments are par-for-the-course in FOSS is quite sad. 


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