Why the I-Hate-Oracle Club?



  • I Hate Oracle... can I join?

    in-fact, I think I hate every "relational" ooops, I mean "SQL" database out there.... But at least T-SQL doesn't have pointers... Though I'm sure SQL 2005 is really going screw things up (further)

    My biggest WTF with 'Oracle', is for all the money it costs, shouldn't I be able to give it a Logical model, and it does all the weird arsed physical implementation for me? Why do I have to optimise the RDBMS, isn't that what the RDBMS is meant to do? Why should I have to denormalize my data model just so the RDBMS can work faster... Should it not do that for me? after all isn't an RDBMS meant to manage my data for me and not just provide a crappy mechanism (PL SQL, SQL+ etc)to retrieve my data from disk...



  • @hclark said:

    @LordHunter317 said:

    @swami said:



    Please tell me you're joking.  This is a Windows cultural VALUE?  Most Windows people hate this damn thing because the space screws everything up.
    It's a standard, even.  And most Windows users don't care about the space in the name.

    You know, GUIs and all that.  Kind of a wonderful invention, you know.



    Ugh. My first action on getting a new Windows box is to change HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ProgramFilesDir to someting sensible, like C:\Apps. The stupid hoops you have to do to handle spaced filenames, all those quotes and stuff.

    I'm with Oracle on that one.

    C:\Apps???



  • Four words

    Oracles Graphical User Interface !!!

    need I cay more about oracles implementation for providing developers a user interface, DOWN WITH FORMS ....



  • @Handyman said:

    Why I hate Oracle:

    • DUAL. Who the fuck came up with the idea of a table called DUAL that contains ONE record. Why not call it SINGLE? Or why not support the fact that WHERE clauses might be optional?
    • One engine = one database. On many other databases (Informix and PostgreSQL, to name a few), you can run many independent databases on a single engine. This means you can, for instance, easily clone a database for testing purposes. But we use Oracle. This means that we have to ask the sysadmins to create a new engine every time we need a new database. Even if we intend to almost never use it. And they often refuse, as every engine takes up too much server memory already.
    • The DATE type. Why call a type DATE and include a time? All sensible databases have separate types, like DATE, TIMESTAMP, TIME. Types that do what they say.
    • You cannot declare a parameter or a variable at the beginning of a stored procedure (before the BEGIN part) that has the word "end" in it. At least, not through ODBC -- the driver parses just enough to barf on that.

    And these are just the things that come to mind right now.

     

    I'm all for hating Oracle, but have you looked at a SQL TIMESTAMP column?  There sure ain't no time in there.



  • f'n installer, f'n package headers, f'n out cursors... i'm in



  • Just spent an hour in this thread, mostly laughing - 90% of the comments are on the order of "I hate my new Ferrari because my feet don't reach the pedals". I actually love the Oracle DBMS, but here is what I hate about Oracle in the general sense:

    1. Oracle Consulting is a cutthroat band of scum, almost as bad as Accenture.
    2. Oracle docs do a bad job explaining to application developers what the DBMS is. Junior programmers often get into trouble thinking it is a file manager like mySQL rather than a virtual machine like Java. For example, one guy on this thread was asking DBAs to install another "engine" instead of something sane like a schema.
    3. The Oracle App server product line is annoyingly difficult to do anything with, especially keep running.
    4. SQL is still not fully relational after 30 years. If they'd just add relational domains, Java people would stop getting hosed by impedance mismatches (the First Great Blunder).
    5. Oracle's CASE tool, which was a Cadillac product 20 years ago, has barely changed since then except to get a bizarre UI. If they'd get it to do UML and user stories and whatnot it would be a metadata repository everyone could use.

    BTW, some of the complaints people had about Oracle not fitting on a PC are obsolete - check out Oracle XE. I bet you still have to edit the registry manually to uninstall it, though.



  • Even the spammers hate Oracle



  •  Alex wrote:
    It insists on a root directory “C:\Oracle” instead of recognizing the decade-old “Program Files.”
     

    @swami said:


    Please tell me you're joking.  This is a Windows cultural VALUE?  Most Windows people hate this damn thing because the space screws everything up.

    You can also configure the Oracle base directory when installing your software.  Though, like most software, it probably wouldn't like a path with a space in it.

     

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. I hate software that isn't smart enough to install to a directory with spaces in the name.  After all, we've only had about 15 years to work on it, right?  Isn't that enough time for anyone?  :-)

    If I try to install software and it "screws up" because there's a space in the file name or path name, I usually chuck the software in the trash where it belongs.  I use a lot of software from many companies, and all of what I use has no trouble with spaces in path names.



  • @DWalker59 said:

    I hate software that isn't smart enough to install to a directory with spaces in the name.  After all, we've only had about 15 years to work on it, right?  Isn't that enough time for anyone?  :-)

    If I try to install software and it "screws up" because there's a space in the file name or path name, I usually chuck the software in the trash where it belongs.  I use a lot of software from many companies, and all of what I use has no trouble with spaces in path names.

     

    I agree, it I come across software that can't even deal with spaces in the path whats the rest of the code going to be like? It smacks of unprofessionalism



  • @ammoQ said:

    syntax of the INSERT statementWell, this actually applies
    to all SQL databases, not just Oracle... but since they already
    introduced so many proprietary SQL extensions, they could have cared
    for that one too:

    INSERT INTO mytable (c1, c2, c3, ..., c57) VALUES (v1, v2, v3, ..., v57)
    What's

    wrong with it? Try to match the entries in the column list with the
    entries in the value list. Nearly impossible for tables with many
    columns. I would gladly welcome a DBMS which introduces a new
    (UPDATE-like) syntax:

    INSERT INTO mytable SET c1=v1, c2=v2, c3=v3, ..., c57=v57

    If you know such a DBMS, please tell me.

    LDAP.  HTH.  HAND.

    (Well, ok, technically, LDAP's format is more of a

    dn: attr=value,ou=orgunit2,ou=orgunit1,dc=example,dc=com
    changetype: modify
    replace: attrToReplace
    attrToReplace: new_attr_value
    -
    delete: attrToDelete
    attrToDelete: specific attr value to delete
    -
    add: attrToAdd
    attrToAdd: value to add
    

    but my point is, the attributes are associated with their values.  Also, I've seen several (in-house) tools which let one specify an LDAP change on the command-line with a attribute=value format.

    Incidentally, LDAP databases also have the benefit that they support multi-valued attributes directly, rather than forcing one to kludge it by using a separate table to store the multiple values in separate rows.  This allows one to do queries to find all the entries which do not contain a particular value in a multivalued field, and actually get an answer which does not include entries which have at least one value which is not the value you are trying to exclude, even though they do also have the value you're trying to exclude.

    It's a shame that it doesn't handle the relational part at all.  I'd really like to know of a database that actually does first-class multi-valued attributes, yet also allows for lookup tables.  Sadly, whenever I talk to the hierarchical database people about wanting lookup tables, they say I want a relational database, don't bug them.  Whenever I talk to the relational database people about wanting first-class multi-valued columns, they say such a thing does not and cannot exist (as they apparently feel unable to admit the continued existence of the hierarchical database people, while also being unwilling to code that which could actually finally give hierarchical databases their death blow).  And, whenever I talk to the object oriented database people (such as the "fine folk" at Oracle, they tell me their stuff all works flawlessly, but I can't get it to reliably do anything, except not work right (that bit's easy - it does that right out of the box).  Sigh.  I wish it was as simple as, "I've just been talking to the wrong database people."

    Disclaimer: Yeah, it's an old post.  It's also a mostly dead subforum, such that this is the second posting, despite it being a week after its prior post, and the only newer post hasn't gotten any replies.  Also, as Alex spawned it, can it ever be truly too old to be raised?



  • As a novice,this is the first time I have seen the 'hate club' about the Oracle.It is surprising but truthfulthe way Oracle come in the recent years.



  • I really hate oracle.

    I hate the fact it has huge memory usage spikes with queries containg nclob.

    I hate the way you have to reinstall it two or three times to get rid of that wierd driver error.

    I hate the fact there's no freaking way it'll work if you try and install two different client versions.

    I hate the fact indexes are not used if your NVARCHAR2 is a little too long, but NVARCHAR is ok.

    I hate the fact one error code can cover 25 different problems.

    I hate the way the GUI has at least a 2 second lag time and message boxes pop-up telling you what you just clicked on.

    SQLplus is w$nk, but it really improved my typing! I love the fact you can't use the cursor, cycle old commands or edit anything inline. (Yeah I know about ED) 

     

    I'll be back with more, thats just off the top of my head.

    <FONT size=1>

    ORA-12514: TNS:listener does not currently know of service requested in connect descriptor</FONT>



  • Because I hate Oracle. I hate how it works. I hate its name. I hate the logo. I hate Larry Ellison. I even hate The Oracle from The Matrix.

    Prof: So we have an oracle program. Does anybody know what an oracle is?

    Student 1: An evil company.

    Student 2: A lady in the Matrix who bakes cookies for you.

    Prof: Exactly.



  •  Alex wrote:
    It insists on a root directory “C:\Oracle” instead of recognizing the decade-old “Program Files.”

    Bit of necro, but... It's configured to install itself into a directory defined by ORACLE_BASE and ORACLE_HOME, so that one user may have many different installations (and different versions of) Oracle RDBMS installed, and they don't clash with other users installing and running Oracle S/W.

    Under *nix, it often complains if these environment variables aren't set - in the setup guide, defining these variables is one of the pre-requisites. Under Windows, if they're not set, they default to C:\Oracle. It's not a matter of recognition of the decade-old Windows standards, it's more in keeping with the Oracle Optimal Flexible Architecture which is intended to be platform-agnostic (which sometimes means a choice to deliberately ignore newer platform-specific standards or permit the user to set those standards prior to install).

    BTW - is this "I hate Oracle RDBMS", or is it "I hate The Oracle Corporation"...? I kinda hate companies that share product and organisation name.



  • @xdaniel said:

    SQLplus is w$nk, but it really improved my typing! I love the fact you can't use the cursor, cycle old commands or edit anything inline. (Yeah I know about ED)

    Weird... I use SQLplus (over the GUI tools) for precisely that reason - that the cursor keys provide history recall and allow inline editing.



  • @Cassidy said:

    Under Windows, if they're not set, they default to C:\Oracle.
     

    So they chose to default to "C:\Oracle" specifically under Windows, and then you say it's not a matter of not recognizing the standard for that platform?

    That does not compute.


     



  • @dhromed said:

    So they chose not to stop with an error message about unset environment variables (like they do on every other install) but default to "C:\Oracle" specifically under Windows.

    FTFY. It's still WTF City, just a different route there.

    I think part of the reason behind it was that (historically) the installer couldn't cope with spaces in filenames[1] so defaulted to this location in Windows to avoid the support issues (and embarrassment). I understand the space issue is fixed now - I ought to run through a quick 11g install to test this. I'll do it tomorrow.

    [1] or rather, some idiot coder stupidly assumed that spaces wouldn't exist in paths because they're uncommon in *nix platforms.

     



  •  Ok, that's more explainable.



  • .. only in the context of Oracle and their ingrained stupidity, yup.

    I actually like many of the things their database does. It just horrifies me that an organisation that shows technical brilliance and good clue in one aspect is so bumbling in another, as though common sense took a holiday at some point but forgot to close the door on production development, allowing idiocy to wander in freely and contaminate things liberally... then didn't even bother to check after returning from vacation. Hell, empty string is NULL is frankly bonkers and inexcusable.



  • @Cassidy said:

    I understand the space issue is fixed now - I ought to run through a quick 11g install to test this. I'll do it tomorrow.
     

    So, finally got around to it. Firstly, set environment variables of ORACLE_BASE and ORACLE_HOME (latter should be relative to former, but it's usually changable during install):

    Okay, all set... let's start the install:

    So.. the installer does pick up this environment variable, rather than going for a hard-coded default. So far, not bad. It did moan about ORACLE_HOME not being under ORACLE_BASE (fair enough), but more of a warning rather than an error. I could still proceed.

    .. or could I?

    Okay... so ORACLE_HOME contains the space character. Nowhere does it mention that this is actually forbidden, nor are there any suggestions that it should be removed/replaced with something else. Helpfully, the action informs me a "few additional characters that are allowed for your platform". Of which space is a permitted character.

    So, in conclusion, the Oracle installer cannot cope with spaces in filenames. Thankfully, everything is logged in case I hadn't taken screen dumps:

    Hah, it even mangles filenames! Well, it can't cope with spaces, so it won't choose to store it in "C:\Documents And Settings" since that contains --

    -- WAT?

    Okay, it's official. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Oracle?

    Shitting fuck.



  • @Cassidy said:

    So, in conclusion, the Oracle installer cannot cope with spaces in filenames.

    Yep. It seems to be that whoever is in charge of writing installers at Oracle really hates spaces with a passion. It's not just the database client; practically every piece of Oracle software refuses to install to a directory containing spaces.

    In fact, I've had software from an independent vendor that is perfectly happy to install to a directory containing spaces, but [i]the same software[/i] bundled with an Oracle application and using an Oracle installer (but still installing separately from the Oracle application) refuses to install to a path containing spaces. I assume this is because the person writing the installer has an extreme horror of spaces.

    Granted, it could also be because the Oracle app wants to talk to the other app, and a path with spaces in it would make the Oracle app's head explode. But that's not really any better.

    I have to admit, though, the "Documents and Settings" bit was funny. Did you actually try putting it there, though? Did it work? I wouldn't be surprised to find that it either failed, or created a new directory C:\Documents and put something under there...



  • @Scarlet Manuka said:

    I have to admit, though, the "Documents and Settings" bit was funny. Did you actually try putting it there, though?

    It defaulted to that location, I'm guessing ${HOME}/.oracle for its own hidden-dir stuff, and the home dir translated to the profile dir on Windows.

    @Scarlet Manuka said:

    Did it work?

    Yes. Yes, it did... which is TRWTF: it clearly can cope with spaces in names, unless it's chucking it at some WinAPI which handles the space interpretation. The irony that it wrote a logfile in that dir with an entry informing the user it won't tolerate spaced filenames is.. oh.. ow, my head...

     



  • @Cassidy said:

    The irony that it wrote a logfile in that dir with an entry informing the user it won't tolerate spaced filenames is.. oh.. ow, my head...

    space space space I wanna be in a path with space are we in space yet why aren't we in space yet I wanna be in space spaaaaaaaaaaaaace


  • Banned

    This post is deleted!


  • Oracle Homes? Really? I never had to buy SQL Server a home to get it to work. And cursors, results sets? ORACLE: Oh, you want me to GIVE those to you? Thought you just wanted me know the results. Uh, no thanks. This whole technology thing already borders on magic enough without moody relational databases that give you attitude.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @cunhajo GODDAMNIT FBMAC CUNHAJO!!!


  • area_can

    @antiquarian who are all these random new people joining the forum? Is TDWTF gaining popularity or something?


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @bb36e said in Why the I-Hate-Oracle Club?:

    @antiquarian who are all these random new people joining the forum? Is TDWTF gaining popularity or something?

    New people? Where? :eyes:


  • Dupa

    @bb36e said in Why the I-Hate-Oracle Club?:

    @antiquarian who are all these random new people joining the forum? Is TDWTF gaining popularity or something?

    It’s just @boomzilla acting weird. It happens sometimes, when he has too much free time on his hands and wants to avoid work.


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