Here are your unemployment benefits... your unemployment benefits were denied



  • I recently became unemployed (see the best of article "Hot Water Costs Money"), and decided to file for unemployment.  Now to be fair I didn't think I could get it because I did quit, but I've gotten it from companies I've quit before (one of which I quit after 3 months due to moving), so I figured it was worth a shot; it's up to the company to decide if they want to pay it, at any rate. So I filled out the form.  One week later, I got a letter saying the benefits I was supposed to be getting, and a reminder to claim my unemployment weeks, which I did.  I had it set up for direct deposit, but no money went in by week's end.  During that time, I got a second notice reminding me to claim the following weeks' benefits.  Since the first time didn't go in, I called the office, which is a WTF in itself:  The Florida unemployment office A) does not have call waiting, so 90% of the time you will get a busy signal, B) Uses an automated system anyways, once you get through, and C) does not have a call queue so if there's no operator to talk with (which happens often) you do not wait but instead are told to call back later, at which point the system hangs up on you.

    So anyways, after two days of trying to call and talk to someone to find out why my money didn't go in, they tell me that my claim has been denied by my old company, because I quit (proving that they really are cheapskate scumbags, but that's besides the point).  The system, it seems, mails out the benefit amount and reminders independent of actually being told if the person is getting benefits at all.  Week #3 rolls around and they send out a denial letter.  Keep in mind this is AFTER they told me I was getting benefits, how much I was getting, and sending out two reminders to claim benefits.  So to recap:  It takes them nearly a month to actually determine whether or not you are getting unemployment, during which point you are given the amount you should be receiving, reminders to claim weeks, and having to go through a ridiculously outdated and simplistic phone system to even talk to an actual person.

    So.. I guess the point of this is that Florida is the Real WTF.



  • TRWTF is that you thought you would get unemployment benefits for quitting.  Perhaps I'm just ill-informed, but I've always been told that you do not qualify for unemployment if you leave under your own free will.  I'd say you were lucky you got benefits in the previous cases, honestly.

     

    Anyway, sucks that they "pulled" your unemployment benefits. 



  •  That's what I thought, too.  I waited 2 months to apply because I thought I couldn't get it, but then remembered I got it from some other jobs so figured what have I got to lose?  Luckily fo rme I start a new job tomorrow.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    TRWTF is that you thought you would get unemployment benefits for quitting. 
     

    I would say that TRWTF is quitting with no place to jump to...



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I would say that TRWTF is quitting with no place to jump to...
     

    Sometimes the Real Real WTF is sticking around and letting your sanity go even further. 



  • @arty said:

    Sometimes the Real Real WTF is sticking around and letting your sanity go even further.

    True, but if you're in a position where you need to claim unemployment insurance you obviously aren't in the best financial situation to begin with.  How hard is it to stick it out for a month while you secure a new job?  I mean, if the place is really so bad it's going to cause you severe pain to work there, it's probably a basis for a lawsuit which is way better than unemployment insurance. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @arty said:

    Sometimes the Real Real WTF is sticking around and letting your sanity go even further.

    True, but if you're in a position where you need to claim unemployment insurance you obviously aren't in the best financial situation to begin with.  How hard is it to stick it out for a month while you secure a new job?  I mean, if the place is really so bad it's going to cause you severe pain to work there, it's probably a basis for a lawsuit which is way better than unemployment insurance. 

    This is so very, very true. Jumping jobs is something you should do when you've already secured the other job, unless you've got deep pockets, or sufficient savings to live off of them for 3 months.

    I once got fired because my former employer found out I was searching another job; this was a part-time job before graduation, and they were to switch me into full-time after graduation. I got a better offer, which I was considering, when my boss found out. I got fired.

    The "other deal" didn't go through, and I finally got a job about 3 months later. I was facing eviction by that time, as I had already burned down all my savings. Sheesh.



  • @danixdefcon5 said:

    I once got fired because my former employer found out I was searching another job;

    I never understood the reasoning behind this.  "If you try to leave, we will make you suffer!  Ha ha ha!" 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I never understood the reasoning behind this.  "If you try to leave, we will make you suffer!  Ha ha ha!"
     

    To quote the Moody Blues: "So if you gotta go, woa, you'd better go now!"

    I'd personally try to make the employee a better offer, though maybe the fact they didn't says enough ;-)



  •  Perhaps the real WTF is that you managed to get paid for unemployment from companies you quit from in the past.

     



  • @Monomelodies said:

    make the employee a better offer

    Personally, I would never accept a counter offer.

    Assuming you decided to leave and found a suitable position...

    If you are leaving for more money, and your boss counters with more money, what he's really saying is: we think you're worth more, but we were paying you as little as we could get away with (as opposed to paying you a fair salary based upon skill/contributions), and will likely continue to do so.

    If you're leaving because you are PO'd at something/one, then the extra money isn't going to change that problem, and once you acclimate to the extra pay, the problem will again annoy you to the point of leaving.

    Edit: Sometimes, an employer will "lay you off" by eliminating the position (usually immediately followed by creating another nearly identical position). I've been caught up in this, and the discharge agreement included severance, and the company's statement that they would not block an unemployment claim. It depends upon your particular circumstances.


  • @snoofle said:

    Personally, I would never accept a counter offer.

    Assuming you decided to leave and found a suitable position...

    If you are leaving for more money, and your boss counters with more money, what he's really saying is: we think you're worth more, but we were paying you as little as we could get away with (as opposed to paying you a fair salary based upon skill/contributions), and will likely continue to do so.

    If you're leaving because you are PO'd at something/one, then the extra money isn't going to change that problem, and once you acclimate to the extra pay, the problem will again annoy you to the point of leaving.

    Agreed.  It would also be really awkward to keep working for someone after they knew you had been looking for a new job.  It would be like getting caught with your wife's sister and then trying to repair the marriage.  However, you can use your current offer as leverage to negotiate more money out of your new employer.  Playing people off of each other is probably the most satisfying part of the hiring process. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    TRWTF is that you thought you would get unemployment benefits for quitting.  Perhaps I'm just ill-informed, but I've always been told that you do not qualify for unemployment if you leave under your own free will.  I'd say you were lucky you got benefits in the previous cases, honestly.

     There are two reasons that I know of that allow you to quit and claim unemployment:

     - Significant medical changes (outside of work, inside of work, of course, would be something the company pays for) that make the job impossible (Lost your hands and you work a press, lost your mind and you develop software).

     - Significant/illegal changes to the job itself.  ie:  You were told you only work 40 hours a week, and now the company expects 80.  You were told you were a press operator, but now you administrate the company's PCs.  The makes "bad touch" touches.  You live in Alabama and work there.  Your company decided it is going to move you and your job to Canada.  ;-)

     Generally, you will need to claim these happened when applying.  You may also need to prove them.



  • @shepd said:

     - Significant medical changes (outside of work, inside of work, of course, would be something the company pays for) that make the job impossible (Lost your hands and you work a press, lost your mind and you develop software).

    This would be covered by different forms of insurance, some private and some public, as well as Social Security disability benefits.  I don't think it would qualify you for unemployment insurance benefits.

     

    @shepd said:

     - Significant/illegal changes to the job itself.  ie:  You were told you only work 40 hours a week, and now the company expects 80.  You were told you were a press operator, but now you administrate the company's PCs.  The makes "bad touch" touches.  You live in Alabama and work there.  Your company decided it is going to move you and your job to Canada.  ;-)

    If the job is moved, it's called being "laid off" which is usually why people go on unemployment.  If the job is requiring illegal activity, that's called "let the Feds deal with it and then sue the bastards". 



  • @ObiWayneKenobi said:

    So.. I guess the point of this is that Florida is the Real WTF.
     

    It's not the only one, though.

    I was laid off once at a job in Ohio. Since I didn't need the money, and was moving anyway, I didn't bother to file for unemployment. I moved back to NY instead.

    Once I got to NY, and didn't find a job right away, I decided to apply for unemployment after all. I applied in NY, which forwarded the claim to Ohio.

    Ohio approved the benefits (even though I was no longer in the state) and started sending me checks. They continued to send them for the next three months, until I found a job.

    Six months [b]after that[/b] (nine months after I'd applied and been approved, and after I'd received three months of payments, I got a notice that the previous employer was contesting it. Since I was out of state, a telephone hearing was scheduled.

    The state decided that, since I'd been out of state when I'd applied, I was not entitled to have collected, and ruled in favor of the employer. They then proceeded to send me a bill for the 13 weeks I'd collected at the maximum rate of $330 per week.

    I appealed the decision, as I had clearly been out of state when I applied for benefits and they approved (and mailed checks out) knowing that fact.  After another year of certified letters back and forth, and three more telephone hearings, they decided not to  pursue it any further.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    This would be covered by different forms of insurance, some private and some public, as well as Social Security disability benefits.  I don't think it would qualify you for unemployment insurance benefits.

    Maybe where you are.  In Canada, you will get unemployment benefits.  No, it's not easy to get them, but with persistence and a valid reason, you will.  They're probably easier to get than benefits from your average insurance company, though.  I've learned a lot about this in the past few months, as the wife is presently working with a lawyer to get money she deserves from her insurance company.  As long as the net amount after paying the lawyer is under ~$-2500, I don't mind, since I have a special pit of hate for insurance companies (whatever I spend, I expect their lawyers are tripling for the insurance company). http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/ei/legislation/ei_regs_part1_26.shtml

    WSIB (Canadian version of what you would be thinking of) covers you for any illness/injury that happens on the job that will improve in a reasonable amount of time and therefore a back-to-work plan can be organized.  They will pay benefits for an illness/injury on the job that permanently handicaps you from the job also, after which you will then proceed to unemployment.  WSIB is indirectly paid for by companies and employees through wage deductions and (I'm guessing) fines/levies on companies.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    If the job is moved, it's called being "laid off" which is usually why people go on unemployment.

    Crappy employers won't officially lay off the employees, though; they will just tell them to move or quit.  ie:  Illegal change to the job.  I'm not necessarially talking about the job making you do illegal things (although that is a valid reason to quit and receive pogey).  Rather, I'm thinking about the employer not declaring you as laid off when they are required to, ie: by forcing you to either quit or actually firing you.



  • @shepd said:

    Maybe where you are.  In Canada, you will get unemployment benefits.

    That seems odd and pointless.  There are already benefits for injured individuals.  Why burden the unemployment insurance for no reason?

     

    @shepd said:

    Crappy employers won't officially lay off the employees, though; they will just tell them to move or quit.  ie:  Illegal change to the job.

    I've never really heard of this.  I'm not even sure if it would be legal in the US. 



  • @snoofle said:

    @Monomelodies said:

    make the employee a better offer

    Personally, I would never accept a counter offer.

    Assuming you decided to leave and found a suitable position...

    If you are leaving for more money, and your boss counters with more money, what he's really saying is: we think you're worth more, but we were paying you as little as we could get away with (as opposed to paying you a fair salary based upon skill/contributions), and will likely continue to do so.

    If you're leaving because you are PO'd at something/one, then the extra money isn't going to change that problem, and once you acclimate to the extra pay, the problem will again annoy you to the point of leaving.

    When I left my previous job, one of the main reasons was that my raise had been denied, instead being given something like an $80/month raise. The reasoning with management was "we got lots of IT Security experts, we can replace you in a blink of an eye!" ... until I actually gave my two weeks notice.

    Surprise, surprise: I get an offer of an immediate, fast-tracked raise to the salary I was being offered (which incidentally, was the same amount I would've got with my failed raise request.) Too bad some of the other reasons I wanted to leave involved being PO'd at our boss and management because of excessive unpaid overtime, reducing our vacation days, and many other things. So basically I would've been paid the same as now, but I'd still have the same problems I wanted to leave in the first place!

    Also, as morb pointed it out, accepting said offer is kind of like sleeping with your wife's sister, then trying to fix your marriage. You just can't do that.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @shepd said:

    Crappy employers won't officially lay off the employees, though; they will just tell them to move or quit.  ie:  Illegal change to the job.

    I've never really heard of this.  I'm not even sure if it would be legal in the US. 

     

    I'm guessing it's probably not legal too. I've also heard of that happening, though. Many times, from different people.



  • @danixdefcon5 said:

    I once got fired because my former employer found out I was searching another job

    TRWTF is that this is legal.



  • @lolwtf said:

    TRWTF is that this is legal.

    The burden of making it illegal is surely worse than allowing the occasional asshole the freedom to act the fool. 



  • @ObiWayneKenobi said:

    ...I've gotten it from companies I've quit
    before (one of which I quit after 3 months due to moving), so I figured
    it was worth a shot...

    @morbiuswilters said:

    TRWTF is that you thought you would get unemployment benefits for quitting.

    I would continue reading this thread after the second comment, but my brain just stumbled. Hard.



  •  Hmm, not sure what your problem was with the unemployment system, I had no issues (I'm from Florida also). Back in my high school minimum wage days, I quit a job because they had promised me at least 25 hours a week part-time, which was the amount I needed to make my bills. After a few months they started slowly cutting down my hours until I was only working 10 hours a week. I quit, without giving a day's notice, once that schedule was posted, and immediately filed an unemployment claim. I cited that my reasons for quitting were that I was unable to pay my bills with the amount I was working, and that the employer had gone against their verbal promise to give me a guaranteed amount of hours. They determined I was eligible for unemployment, and I milked about 10 weeks from the company while I found another job.



  • @Arctic_Panda said:

    I would continue reading this thread after the second comment, but my brain just stumbled. Hard.

    200mg of seroquil and a pint of vodka should take care of that.  Not so much with the reading comprehension, but it will put you straight into a pleasant sleep. 



  • @danixdefcon5 said:

    I once got fired because my former employer found out I was searching another job; this was a part-time job before graduation, and they were to switch me into full-time after graduation. I got a better offer, which I was considering, when my boss found out. I got fired.
     

     LOL I got a 25% pay rise instead :) And further rises every 6 months



  • @snoofle said:

    Personally, I would never accept a counter offer.

    Neither would/have I. It makes sense from the employer's perspective, though - at least more sense than giving someone the boot. Remember, we were talking about "just browsing", not actually "having received an offer". If that were the situation I'd be damn sure, as an employer, to sit with my employee and find out what the problem is in the first place. If I'd want to keep him/her at all, of course.



  • @snoofle said:

    @Monomelodies said:

    make the employee a better offer

    Personally, I would never accept a counter offer.

    Assuming you decided to leave and found a suitable position...

    If you are leaving for more money, and your boss counters with more money, what he's really saying is: we think you're worth more, but we were paying you as little as we could get away with (as opposed to paying you a fair salary based upon skill/contributions), and will likely continue to do so.

     

    Do you realize that the point of a company is to make the most money for its shareholders? By paying every employee as much as that employee wants, they won't accomplish their goal.  So what they do is they underpay as much as possible while paying enough to keep around the people they want to keep.  Of course, if you're leaving for money reasons and they want to keep you then they have miscalculated and a counter-offer is them recalculating their guess of how much you need to keep you there.  It's not like they are personally out to fuck you.  They are just trying to maximize profits.  If you can't handle the reality of corporate culture then I suggest starting your own company and watch what you do with your own employees.



  • @omgitsfletch said:

     Hmm, not sure what your problem was with the unemployment system, I had no issues (I'm from Florida also). Back in my high school minimum wage days, I quit a job because they had promised me at least 25 hours a week part-time, which was the amount I needed to make my bills. After a few months they started slowly cutting down my hours until I was only working 10 hours a week. I quit, without giving a day's notice, once that schedule was posted, and immediately filed an unemployment claim. I cited that my reasons for quitting were that I was unable to pay my bills with the amount I was working, and that the employer had gone against their verbal promise to give me a guaranteed amount of hours. They determined I was eligible for unemployment, and I milked about 10 weeks from the company while I found another job.

     

    you do realize that this makes you look like a looser.  I worked during high school (I made above minimum wage because I actually got promotions though).  I needed about 25 hour a week too.  However, instead of being a little whiny bitch and telling them I needed 25 hours, I worked harder so that they wanted me around more.  Ended up I had to start asking them for less hours because they would keep scheduling me for almost 40 hours.  I knew people like you though.  They would come to work and fuck around the whole time and complain that they don't get enough hours.  When they saw how many hours I and the other good workers were getting they would get angry and quit.  Then the managers and I would laugh at them and we would go about our business.  It usually isn't much of a loss when someone like that quits.



  • @tster said:

    Do you realize that the point of a company is to make the most money for its shareholders?

    @tster said:

    It's not like they are personally out to fuck you.  They are just trying to maximize profits.  If you can't handle the reality of corporate culture then I suggest starting your own company and watch what you do with your own employees.

    Not disagreeing, but I'd just like to point out this is not limited to corporate culture.  In any transaction, buyer and seller try to get the most return for the least effort.  The equilibrium between these two forces is the price of whatever is being exchanged, in this case an employee's salary.  Employers are no more trying to fuck over employees than vice-versa, they both are just trying to maximize returns for themselves, thereby increasing the overall wealth that is created by the transaction.  Ultimately, price equilibrium is a result of millions of tiny factors, but it is nothing more than information -- the aggregate of the value assigned to a particular good or service by every buyer and every seller.  People often take such things personally, but price is just the desirability of a particular good or service, determined by every participant in the market.



  • @tster said:

    @snoofle said:

    If you are leaving for more money, and your boss counters with more money, what he's really saying is: we think you're worth more, but we were paying you as little as we could get away with (as opposed to paying you a fair salary based upon skill/contributions), and will likely continue to do so.

     

    Do you realize that the point of a company is to make the most money for its shareholders? By paying every employee as much as that employee wants, they won't accomplish their goal.  So what they do is they underpay as much as possible while paying enough to keep around the people they want to keep.  Of course, if you're leaving for money reasons and they want to keep you then they have miscalculated and a counter-offer is them recalculating their guess of how much you need to keep you there.  It's not like they are personally out to fuck you.  They are just trying to maximize profits.  If you can't handle the reality of corporate culture then I suggest starting your own company and watch what you do with your own employees.

    First, I need to point out the difference between 'a fair wage' and 'paying every employee as much as that employee wants'.  Nobody has suggested the latter here, and TRWTF is that you apparently think someone has.

    The point of a *corporation* is to make the most money for its shareholders.  This is not, however, in conflict with the concept of paying a fair wage.  It's a matter of psychology - if an employee knows that he/she is not being paid as much as he/she should be, then said employee is motivated to seek other employment.  On the other hand, certain employees will work harder given more money, even beyond the point of fair salary.

    Also note that, in general, a very disproportionate amount of pay (at least in the US) goes to the C-level officers.  Frequently, this is far in excess of any value said individuals have contributed, except by the simple act of staying put and providing stability.  The general reason for this is that changes of C-level officers get reported, at least to the stockholders, and frequent changes tend to inspire stock holders to sell their stock.  That having been said, many corporations would probably be more profitable if they took half of the C-level officers' compensation, and portioned it out to the rest of the company.

    Not all companies are corporations, although given the benefits of incorporation, many (probably most in the US) are.  At least part of the point of sole proprietorships and partnerships is to make money for the owner or owners, but they may have additional motives as well.  Non-profits, on the other hand, *should* have staying solvent as a fairly high priority, but do not always.



  • @tgape said:

    First, I need to point out the difference between 'a fair wage' and 'paying every employee as much as that employee wants'.  Nobody has suggested the latter here, and TRWTF is that you apparently think someone has.

     

    I do not recognize the existence of a "fair wage."  It's a made up bullshit phrase made by politicians and labor activists.  If someone feels they aren't making enought then they are looking to make the amount that they want.  Hence, "as that employee wants."  I'm sorry if this point confuses you, but there is no such thing as what a "fair" amount of money is to pay someone.  If I could find people to work for me for $10/hour where the competition is all paying $20/hour, am I being "unfair?"  No, I've simply been better at finding lower price labor.  It would be unfair if they were forced to work there, but last time I checked, no one in a non-shit country is forced to work at a specific place anymore.



  •  @Dalden said:

     Perhaps the real WTF is that you managed to get paid for unemployment from companies you quit from in the past.

     

    It never hurts to try.  When I was in Seattle, I stopped showing up at my bartending gig because it ran from 12a to 8a and i just kept oversleeping.    This was a little 24 hour card room with blackjack and baccarat, etc. and three months into the job they began to stop serving alcohol from 12a to 4a.  Since  very few ppl come to drink from 4a to 8a  I was just making $7 an hour and virtually no tips.  Eventually I just stopped setting my alarm clock and two weeks later filed for unemployment.  I gave my reason for quitting as unable to mentally and physically meet the challenge of the late night hours or something like that.  Anyway they called me back about a week later and said that the casino informed them that I never gave notice of quitting, and they decided to fire me for continous no call no shows.  All I could say to the unemployment lady was "ok, I didn't know that.  I'm not gonna argue with them."  Then she told me how much my benefits were, how to claim online, etc.  I was like WTF.  Two weeks later, I got my first unemployment check for $225.



  • <font color="#990000" size="7">Somebody please lock this zombie thread. kthxbai</font>


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