Moderator WTF: Revisited



  • Alright, I thought we were all over this now, but it looks like another moderator has surfaced who has decided to start moderating against everything we decided in the previous two threads. Sorry to have to bring this up again, but without it being public, the rest of the forum will never see it. Everything is being done in the background in a sneaky manner right now.

    I am not sure why Jeff S has decided to surface now and why he has decided that his opinion is more valuable than the rest of the community.
    Apparently Jeff S has decided to take to monitoring the IRC channel, and is going to try and use what is said on the IRC channel against various members of the community, despite the obvious fact that the IRC channel has nothing to do with the forums and is not ‘official’ in any way.  This flies in the face of the obviously mature thing to do, which would be joining the IRC channel and talking to the people he has a problem with, or simply PMing them and letting them know what they might be doing to offend him so greatly.

    Instead, perfectly pleasant and humorous threads are being destroyed by blatantly poor moderation. Moderation should not be a way to censor those people you don’t like, nor should it be a way to exact your revenge against people. ammoQ has long understood the fine arts of moderation. Jeff S clearly understands none of them.

    We all decided to let the forums continue the way they were going. This decision was made as a community. I have not seen anything out of the ordinary so far, and I see no reason for the sudden inrush of a megalomaniac, immature mod who deletes posts with notifications like this:


    Your post was deleted by Jeff S.

    Subject: Re: I just conducted my first interview...

    Reason: :)




    Your post was deleted by Jeff S.

    Subject: Re: I just conducted my first interview...

    Reason: deleting posts is fun!


    I know this is the kind of professionalism I expect from a mod… </sarcasm>

    ammoQ has kept this place in fine working order for a long time. We all voiced our opinions, and the opinions were to keep going with ammoQ’s even hand of moderation.

    I think it is time for someone to explain the reason for the sudden change and why we are now going to a format where Jeff S will censor anyone he doesn’t like, but then allow others to make personal insults against those people who are now helpless. This is clearly not what the community had decided upon.

    Also, in the time since I started writing this, we had Jeff S expose himself as lurking on the IRC channel (he didn't do a great job hiding anyway despite purposely using a different nick to try and 'fool' us).
    He has expressed an extreme interest in silencing me. It appears he wants to make this an ad hominem issue, so that is fine with me. If I get banned or all my posts deleted, that is ok with me, it was a good run.
    The fact is that I don't think the community will appreciate his troll mod behavior, and I will let you all judge.



  • Hi -- Why not include the content of the posts that I deleted so others can judge if they should have been or not?

    Also, why not post my personal messages to you where I politely asked you to clean up your act?

    As a "man of the people" and "leader of this forum", you are not doing such as good job of providing unbiased and complete information to your minions.




  • @Jeff S said:

    Hi -- Why not include the content of the posts that I deleted so others can judge if they should have been or not?

    I deem this a prudent course of action.



  •  Not sure if MPS can provide it, so I will.

     

    Post #1:  The entire content of the post deleted was:

    "retard"

    Post #2:  The entire content of the post deleted was:

    "retard"

    That's all.  I apologize for my heavy-handed moderation and for censoring such intelligent points.  MPS -- Any other issues you have, post them here and I'll be happy to provide any specifics requested by the community so they can fully evaluate your concerns.



  •  In the interest of further full disclosure, here was my personal message sent to MPS (of course, it went unreplied):

     


    Hi -- Do you really need me to explain to you why I deleted a post where you simply called someone a "retard" ?

    You
    seem like you are an intelligent person.  I've read lots of your posts
    -- many of them are excellent.  Why resort to childish behavior that
    isn't funny or clever?  Aren't you better than that?  I know it's a
    funny little game to play, trolling and trying to flame and derail the
    forum, but I guess I just don't understand why.  Just bored? Care to
    explain?

    Anyway, if you like, I will put a quick note on all of
    your posts that I remove to let you know exactly why. Will that make
    things better for you?

    Let's be clear -- you aren't banned for
    one reason: because I think you are probably a decent, intelligent
    person who can contribute a lot, and you are definitely capable of
    adding lots of fun and insight to the forum.  People like you are
    exactly what makes places like this interesting to visit.  When you
    aren't purposely being a dick, of course.  Ah ... I just don't
    understand the logic of blatantly making an ass of yourself...

    Here's
    a challenge for you: see if you can be funny, and intelligent, without
    disrepecting others.  I am willing to bet you can do it.  I know it
    goes against your little IRC game and your "hax0r" personna, and you
    may not be "the man" over there if you "succumb to the mods" and act
    civilized -- but try it.  it takes more work and requires much more
    intelligence than just calling people "retards", but I think you can do
    it.  So, what do you say?

    								    </div></blockquote><p>&nbsp;If the community deems this to be "heavy-handed mod trolling without any effort to be cooperative" then so be it. </p>


  •  Oh, one more thing:

    This flies in the face of the obviously mature thing to do, which would
    be joining the IRC channel and talking to the people he has a problem
    with
    , or simply PMing them and letting them know what they might be
    doing to offend him so greatly.

    I did do exactly both of those things.  I will be more than happy to post the transcript of how the IRC discussion went as well if anyone would like to see it.  

    Sadly, MPS doesn't seem to be very honest.  Not what I'd be looking for in a "respected leader of this forum" ....



  •  And finally, for those who are curious as to who's been "trolling" and "accusing others of trolling", you may enjoy browsing through some google results:

     Don't just look at the summary. Read the posts. 

    Just about every thread he is involved in ends up with MPS trolling others, or MPS accusing others of trolling, and/or MPS then reporting to the moderators that someone is trolling.  It's not very clever or funny.  Long before I started (finally) trying to moderate some of it.

    MPS -- as a greatly respected leader of this community, with so many people looking up to you and learning from your example, I think you can do a lot better than this.



  • @dhromed said:

    @Jeff S said:

    Hi -- Why not include the content of the posts that I deleted so others can judge if they should have been or not?

    I deem this a prudent course of action.

     

    I would, however, they were deleted. Not sure what this means in Jeff's world, but in mine, it means I can no longer see them.



  •  @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I would, however, they were deleted. Not sure what this means in Jeff's world, but in mine, it means I can no longer see them.

    Great point.  I have taken care of that by posting them earlier in this thread.

    I can also start posting your tags as they are removed and so on as well, if the community would like that. 

    So, now you've aired your grievances, they have been proven to be mostly lies unfortunately, but at least publicly noted and acknowledged, so let's move on and enjoy the forum. 

     



  • Persons deleting or censoring posts should have a large anvil dropped on their genitals.  

    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous
    sea of liberty - Thomas Jefferson

     



  • @Jeff S said:

    Also, why not post my personal messages to you where I politely asked you to clean up your act?
     

    You mean the one you posted below that you sent me after posting the same thing on IRC, and a day after deleting most of the posts I made?

    @Jeff S said:

    As a "man of the people" and "leader of this forum", you are not doing such as good job of providing unbiased and complete information to your minions.

    Funny. I see you using these quotes. I have never said any of these things and find both titles rather amusing, as I am sure everyone else would.

    Someone here is spreading lies, but it surely isn't me.



  • @Jeff S said:

     Not sure if MPS can provide it, so I will.

     

    Post #1:  The entire content of the post deleted was:

    "retard"

    Post #2:  The entire content of the post deleted was:

    "retard"

    That's all.  I apologize for my heavy-handed moderation and for censoring such intelligent points. 

     

    There have been over a dozen posts deleted. Most have had no notification sent. This also does not include all the tags that were deleted as well.

    The two 'retard' posts you were referring to were in response to dhromed's trolling. And they were tagged with something along the lines of "If dhromed can post this, so can I".

     

    You can speak the truth now, I have nothing to hide, do you?



  • We'll just let the facts speak for themselves.  And they have.



  • @Jeff S said:

    In the interest of further full disclosure, here was my personal message sent to MPS (of course, it went unreplied):
     

    You also sent the same thing to me over IRC, with more 'colorful' wording.

    I chose to reply there. I believe the reply was: "Go fuck yourself." and "Eat shit and die".

    Remember that now?



  • Is it possible to just remove the ability for anybody to delete posts they didn't originally write?  Or is this another one of those configuration things that Alex would have to do but won't?



  • Wait, after having posted that, I looked again.  My post has a delete button, but the other ones don't.  So it looks like this is already in place.  How is Jeff deleting other people's posts?  Are CS privileges hackable?



  •  You posted two examples of me deleting your stuff for no reason. And you are correct, I did not give a reason for those two deletions.  And that is why I provided the content of the posts that were deleted for others to judge for themselves if reasons were necessary.  Simple as that.



  • The only time I visited you in the IRC channel was today.  I never forwarded or cut and paste that PM message in the IRC channel.



  • @Jeff S said:

    And that is why I provided the content of the posts that were deleted for others to judge for themselves if reasons were necessary.  Simple as that.
     

    You're a sad little man. 



  •  Hi -- I am a moderator, and in fact a very awful person who is deleting meaningful posts such as calling people "retards".  I apologize for denying you access to such insightful posts as those.



  •  @chebrock said:

    @Jeff S said:

    And that is why I provided the content of the posts that were deleted for others to judge for themselves if reasons were necessary.  Simple as that.
     

    You're a sad little man. 

    Why is that?   I simply posted all of the information so that everyone can judge for themselves -- exactly as MPS did (though I did not include any lies).  I didn't initiate any of this.  What makes me a "sad little man"?  Just curious.  Thanks!



  • @jetcitywoman said:

    How is Jeff deleting other people's posts?

    Jeff is a mod.

     

    I find it interesting that this status is not visible in any form.



  • @Jeff S said:

     @chebrock said:

    You're a sad little man. 

    Why is that?   I simply posted all of the information so that everyone can judge for themselves -- exactly as MPS did (though I did not include any lies).  I didn't initiate any of this.  What makes me a "sad little man"?  Just curious.  Thanks!

     

    I'd like to know as well.

    Let's talk it out.



  • I'm cross-posting here because this makes more sense in this thread than it does in its original thread:

    @Jeff S said:

    My expectations for him are simple:  no childish insults.  That's ... pretty much it.  It's possible to be funny, clever and intelligent in different ways, but unfortunately none of them involve calling people "retards".
    As I said in IRC, I think you don't understand the purpose of the daily WTF at all.

    People find hilariously stupid anecdotes of idiots trying to work in IT and submit them to be ridiculed. That is why this site exists. That is why we're all here.

    People come to the forums and betray their misunderstandings of IT by posting without thinking and/or without having a solid background of knowledge in the area they're writing about. MPS et al. come by and ridicule them so that if anyone is using Google and happens upon the original silliness he'll know to not duplicate it. This is the very reason this site exists.

    There is no point in respecting idiots. If you respect their ideas even slightly they might think they're doing something right, and that would be very, very bad. 95% of the things MPS writes here happens to be abrasive. That is an effect. The cause is the fact that 95% of posts here are people advocating stupid shit (indeed, 95% of everything is usually stupid shit). MPS wants the world of IT to be a better place by correcting one stupid idea at a time. The only reason you're singling him out is because he's louder than the rest of us.



  • @Welbog said:

    I'm cross-posting here because this makes more sense in this thread than it does in its original thread:

    @Jeff S said:

    My expectations for him are simple:  no childish insults.  That's ... pretty much it.  It's possible to be funny, clever and intelligent in different ways, but unfortunately none of them involve calling people "retards".
    As I said in IRC, I think you don't understand the purpose of the daily WTF at all.

    People find hilariously stupid anecdotes of idiots trying to work in IT and submit them to be ridiculed. That is why this site exists. That is why we're all here.

    People come to the forums and betray their misunderstandings of IT by posting without thinking and/or without having a solid background of knowledge in the area they're writing about. MPS et al. come by and ridicule them so that if anyone is using Google and happens upon the original silliness he'll know to not duplicate it. This is the very reason this site exists.

    There is no point in respecting idiots. If you respect their ideas even slightly they might think they're doing something right, and that would be very, very bad. 95% of the things MPS writes here happens to be abrasive. That is an effect. The cause is the fact that 95% of posts here are people advocating stupid shit (indeed, 95% of everything is usually stupid shit). MPS wants the world of IT to be a better place by correcting one stupid idea at a time. The only reason you're singling him out is because he's louder than the rest of us.

     

    Simply calling people "retards" and the like, and purposely making stuff up to troll (and then braggin about it on the IRC channell -- i.e., "SOLAR BEARS"), and flinging personal insults, purposefully flaming original posters, and abusing the tags and the like doesn't make this place or IT in general any better.



  • @Jeff S said:

    Simply calling people "retards" and the like, and purposely making stuff up to troll (and then braggin about it on the IRC channell -- i.e., "SOLAR BEARS"), and flinging personal insults, purposefully flaming original posters, and abusing the tags and the like doesn't make this place or IT in general any better.
    I disagree. MPS makes these forums a funnier and more entertaining place. If you can't find the humour in solar bears, then you really are a sad little man.



  • @Welbog said:

    MPS wants the world of IT to be a better place by correcting one stupid idea at a time.

    Laudable. But the thing is, he's not doing that. He's being abrasive for the heck of it, (mostly) without much content, and a special desire for having the last word; an inablity to let go of the Reply button.

    MPS (or at the very least, you) feels he's calling people on their bullshit. The mods call him on his.



  •  No --I've written over and over that MPS is funny and has a lot to contribute, and he even seems quite intelligent.  Just don't deliberately troll, that's all, and don't accuse people of trolling every chance you get and keep reporting every single post over and over to the moderators.  That's all.  Read what I wrote to him earlier that i posted in this thread.  I've enjoyed very many of his posts,and I know lots of others have as well.

    For some reason, though, normal, intellgent, humorous and creative posts aren't enough for him; he needs to insult and to troll. I don't get it.  If you are not smart, funny and creative, sure, trolling and name-calling is all you have. Yet, for some reason, he keeps coming back to it when he doesn't need to ...

     (note: the SOLAR BEARS was just an example of people posting stuff solely to troll and/or flame, and then goign to the IRC channel to brag to their buddies about how they were able to derail a thread and/or upset someone or make them take their comments seriously)



  • @Welbog said:

    MPS makes these forums a funnier and more entertaining place.

    I have no problems with, for example, his OMG A sober one!! comment. Any forum needs its Comic Relief character. But the now famous Retard posts appear entirely devoid of such jocular motives, and were cleaned up.



  • The slight irony is that he's gotten us all talking about him.

     So.

    Who's up for a movie and then some beers?



  • @dhromed said:

     So.

    Who's up for a movie and then some beers?

    Are you asking me on a date?



  • Yo listen up Mr. Jeff, with all due respect, you are wrong and have no sense of "self-placement" nor sense of humour.

    Trust me, you are the odd ball right now. You have a power and do not know how to use it.  Deleting posts or threads is just plain bad moderation.

    You could learn a thing or two from AmmoQ.. and lighten up a little.. if things get out of hand, then lock the thread, but deleting post... not good man, just not good.

    This forum is good fun for most.. I bet that even some of the alleged "trolls" whom are being called "retarded" or whatever, are actually enjoying themselves and having fun also.

    As someone said before, you just don't get the spirit of TDWTF forums. 

    Lighten up dude, don't take this shit so seriously, is a humor site.. is just another internet forum.

    Maybe you have a very refined sense of humour, and don't find funny a lot of stuff here.. but hell, I do laugh a lot at these place... stop ruining the experience.. 

     



  • @fatdog said:

    Yo listen up Mr. Jeff, with all due respect, you are wrong and have no sense of "self-placement" nor sense of humour.

    Trust me, you are the odd ball right now. You have a power and do not know how to use it.  Deleting posts or threads is just plain bad moderation.

    You could learn a thing or two from AmmoQ.. and lighten up a little.. if things get out of hand, then lock the thread, but deleting post... not good man, just not good.

    This forum is good fun for most.. I bet that even some of the alleged "trolls" whom are being called "retarded" or whatever, are actually enjoying themselves and having fun also.

    As someone said before, you just don't get the spirit of TDWTF forums. 

    Lighten up dude, don't take this shit so seriously, is a humor site.. is just another internet forum.

    Maybe you have a very refined sense of humour, and don't find funny a lot of stuff here.. but hell, I do laugh a lot at these place... stop ruining the experience.. 

     

    Do me a favor: Can you read my words through this thread (again, if necessary), and in a sentence or two, state what you think my position on all this is?  Give it an honest shot. What is my viewpoint on this?



  • @fatdog said:

    Yo listen up Mr. Jeff, with all due respect, you are wrong and have no sense of "self-placement" nor sense of humour.

    Trust me, you are the odd ball right now. You have a power and do not know how to use it.  Deleting posts or threads is just plain bad moderation.

    You could learn a thing or two from AmmoQ.. and lighten up a little.. if things get out of hand, then lock the thread, but deleting post... not good man, just not good.

    This forum is good fun for most.. I bet that even some of the alleged "trolls" whom are being called "retarded" or whatever, are actually enjoying themselves and having fun also.

    As someone said before, you just don't get the spirit of TDWTF forums. 

    Lighten up dude, don't take this shit so seriously, is a humor site.. is just another internet forum.

    Maybe you have a very refined sense of humour, and don't find funny a lot of stuff here.. but hell, I do laugh a lot at these place... stop ruining the experience.. 

    Oh, and two more things:

    1) people are complaining about the trolling and flaming in these forums

     and

    2) I am not the only moderator deleting posts. 

    The reason posts are deleted instead of locking threads: If an OP starts a thread and some are enjoying it and it spirals out of control due to trolling/insulting, the OP does not deserve to have their thread locked and the conversation terminated. 



  • @Jeff S said:

    I did do exactly both of those things.  I will be more than happy to post the transcript of how the IRC discussion went as well if anyone would like to see it.  
     

    I guess I should have clarified for our less intelligent readers: 

     @MasterPlanSoftware said:

     This flies in the face of the obviously mature thing to do, which would
    be joining the IRC channel and talking to the people he has a problem
    with, or simply PMing them and letting them know what they might be
    doing to offend him so greatly before deleting posts and tags and not after you were told of the prospect of this thread being created.

    Again. The truth...



  • @Jeff S said:

     You posted two examples of me deleting your stuff for no reason. And you are correct, I did not give a reason for those two deletions.  And that is why I provided the content of the posts that were deleted for others to judge for themselves if reasons were necessary.  Simple as that.

     

    Liar.



  • @Jeff S said:

    The only time I visited you in the IRC channel was today.  I never forwarded or cut and paste that PM message in the IRC channel.
     

    Ok, then you are really stupid and retyped it verbatim.

    What would you like me to say? What does it matter?



  • @Jeff S said:

    We'll just let the facts speak for themselves.  And they have.
     

    Indeed, but only one of us has posted facts here.

     

    You see, funny thing, but there are plenty of people here who hate me, but even they would still admit that I speak the truth and don't hide anything. Being forward with your intentions helps with that trust.

    Anybody who has been to our IRC channel can especially testify to that.



  • @Jeff S said:

     Hi -- I am a moderator, and in fact a very awful person who is deleting meaningful posts such as calling people "retards".  I apologize for denying you access to such insightful posts as those.

     

    Why don't you (or another mod like AmmoQ who we actually trust, and doesn't spew verbal diarrhea like you do) explain to us all of the deletes and edits you made in this thread: http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/9525.aspx

    You know, the one that was progressing perfectly fine until you derailed and destroyed it?



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    What would you like me to say? What does it matter?

     

    No. I guess it doesn't.  Because you are not here to be reasonable, but simply to troll and disrupt.  Too bad.  



  •  This thread is unlocked.



  • To all: this thread is currently unlocked, but further discussion has been moved here:

    http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/9586.aspx

    I encourage everyone with any concerns about the topics mentioned here to review the new thread in full and contribute any further comments there.

    In retrospect, I should not have locked this thread and I am very grateful to MasterPlanSoftware for continuing the discussion.

    Thanks!

    - Jeff S (the mean fascist moderator-troll)



  • @dhromed said:

    @Welbog said:

    MPS wants the world of IT to be a better place by correcting one stupid idea at a time.

    Laudable. But the thing is, he's not doing that. He's being abrasive for the heck of it, (mostly) without much content, and a special desire for having the last word; an inablity to let go of the Reply button.

    MPS (or at the very least, you) feels he's calling people on their bullshit. The mods call him on his.

     

    I agree that MPS must be called on his bullshit - but don't call his bullshit with YOUR OWN bullshit (like randomly deleting posts w/o notifying the poster, etc).



  • @Doctor Steel said:

    @dhromed said:

    @Welbog said:

    MPS wants the world of IT to be a better place by correcting one stupid idea at a time.

    Laudable. But the thing is, he's not doing that. He's being abrasive for the heck of it, (mostly) without much content, and a special desire for having the last word; an inablity to let go of the Reply button.

    MPS (or at the very least, you) feels he's calling people on their bullshit. The mods call him on his.

     

    I agree that MPS must be called on his bullshit - but don't call his bullshit with YOUR OWN bullshit (like randomly deleting posts w/o notifying the poster, etc).

     

    1.  As noted, this thread is dead and the conversation has moved to a different thread.  

    2. Dhromed is not a mod and cannot delete posts.



  • @tster said:

    2. Dhromed is not a mod and cannot delete posts.

    cough

    I deleted 1 MPS post, a while back. It said "Retard", and was in defense of Morbius' thinly veiled insult, because I had responded to it with a mild knock-it-off post, clothed in a jab, which I believed Morbius, of all people, would be able to appreciate. As Mr. Wilters has not spoken out, I believe this still to be the case, and MPS' "Retard" post was unnecessary and inflammatory. It therefore matched criteria for deletion without notification. In other words, I don't think I need to justify cleaning up bullshit.

    After MPS defiantly reposted it almost immediately, I was taken aback by this oddly aggravating behaviour, and talked to AmmoQ about it. In the mean time, it was again deleted, by another mod. I do not know if that was Jeff.


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