When Non-Technical Folks Enforce Rules for Technology



  • I work in a rather large cumbersome beaurocracy with extensive rules for everything from how to enter timecards to how many squares of TP are to be used for each visit to the can. Today's subject is the corporate policy that states (paraphrased): Thou shalt not connect non-corporate-issued devices to the corporate network.

    We have windows PCs. We do not have the admin password. As such, we can not install anything that alters the registry. I have an iPod, and although it can't transfer data between itself and the PC without a driver (presumably iTunes), it will charge when connected via usb. Someone spotted me with the wire connected to the PC and turned me in (that's a whole other story). Here is the conversation that subsequently transpired over several days.

    HR:      Corporate policy states: Thou shalt not.... You have violated this policy.
    Me:      The policy is intended to prevent viruses from being introduced into the network. 
             Since I don't have admin privileges, I can't install the driver required for the    
             PC to see the device. Accordingly, no file transfers are possible. It's simply charging
    HR:      Corporate policy states: ...
    Me:      Yes, but you have to understand what it means...
    HR:      (Borg-like intonation) You are in violation...
    Me:      I'd like to speak to a manager please
    Mgr:     I understand there is some confusion regarding your adherance to the corporate 
             policy regarding...
    Me:      *repeat explanation of what happened and why it's not a problem*
    Mgr:     That seems to make sense, but policy is clear...
    Me:      Blind obedience to something you don't understand doesn't make sense.  
             Let's talk to somebody on the technical side, from whence the policy came
    Tech:    snoofle is correct; without admin privileges, the required software can not be 
             installed, so there is no danger
    HR:      But he is still using bandwidth
    Me+Tech: If no data is being transferred, exactly what bandwidth is being used?
    Mgr:     What you're saying makes sense, but the policy says ...
    Me+Tech: Yes, but that's not what it means
    HrM:     Then the policy must be rewritten to be clear...

    The really sad thing is that this isn't the first time I've run into this stupidity, but HR keeps rotating their drones, and it needs to be explained over and over.

    God, I hate bean-counters...



  •  Get a power connector for it so you don’t have to plug it into your USB port.



  •  Yes, that makes sense,  but you violated the policy.

     

    Couldn't you have said "No, I did not violate the policy." and then left him to respond. Simple replies for a simple mind, see.



  • This does not violate the intent of the policy, and is perfectly safe.  Nevertheless, had I been your manager, I'd have asked you to stop doing it, because if people see you plugging your iPod in, it will weaken the policy.

    Basically, you can't rewrite the policy to allow for charging of devices via USB without making the policy too confusing for your non-technical staff.  And a security policy staff can't understand is one they're not going to follow.



  • @frymaster said:

    And a security policy staff can't understand is one they're not going to follow.
     

    Sometimes -- but only sometimes -- I don't like how you can leave out "that/which" in many an English sentence.

    A staff can't understand is one!



  • I like how they follow your advice to consult with a tech, but just ignore what he says.

    Although the case for rewritting the police to be clear is quite evident.



  • @snoofle said:

    Thou shalt not connect non-corporate-issued devices to the corporate network.

    You can set an iPod up to act as a USB drive which can be interfaced to your computer without the use of iTunes. I am not sure if connecting a USB drive to a Windows PC is allowable under your security settings, but if it is then the objection to your actions is valid.



  • @snoofle said:

    HR: But he is still using bandwidth
    I actually laughed at this one. WTF... Tell them you've brought some bandwidth from home and you're refilling the computer by pushing it in through the floppy drive slot.

    Oh and who's the prat that turned you in? I want to hear that story.



  •  @OzPeter said:

    You can set an iPod up to act as a USB drive which can be interfaced to your computer without the use of iTunes. I am not sure if connecting a USB drive to a Windows PC is allowable under your security settings, but if it is then the objection to your actions is valid.

    I used to do this, i.e. use my iPod as an external drive without installing iTunes. Windows XP recognised it without installing any drivers. Although I did have admin privileges on the machine so that might have made a difference.

    I would agree with the solution of buying a plug-in charger for your iPod!



  • HrM: Then the policy must be rewritten to be clear...

    Tech: Sure, how about "Thou shalt not connect non-corporate-issued devices to the corporate network, unless we say it's okay"



  • Behold the Policy.
    Praise the Policy.
    The Policy shelter us.
    The Policy protect us.
    The Policy guide us.
    Let none threaten the almighty Policy.



  • @DOA said:

    Oh and who's the prat that turned you in? I want to hear that story.

    Agreed - your tales are well written and funny, I'm sure this would be no exception!  Please do tell.



  • The policy does need to be rewritten to be clear.  Specifically, it needs to be clarified that IT policy is to be enforced by IT and only IT. 

    <hints id="hah_hints"></hints>



  • I'll bet there were people like you in Gomorrah.

    Lot: God says thou shalt not covet another man's wife.
    Snoofle's Great great great great...: The policy is intended to prevent jealous husbands 
         from going round killing covetters. Since her husband doesn't know, and he's away 
         all weekend, no-one's getting hurt. Accordingly, no covetter killing is possible. I'm 
         simply having a bit of fun.
    Lot: God says...
    That chap: Yes, but you have to understand what it means...
    Lot (sounding like he's in a Cecil B De Mille film): God won't be happy...
    That chap: I'd like to talk to a city elder
    City elder: I understand you've been playing away from home...
    That chap: *Yes, but her husband isn't going to find out*
    City elder: That seems to make sense, but policy is clear...
    That chap: Blind obedience to something you don't understand doesn't make sense.  
         Let's talk to somebody on the religious side, from whence the policy came.
    Angel of Death: (Rains down fireballs, for God is not to be messed with).
    

    The policy was phrased in simple terms precisely so that _everyone_ could understand it - which is clearer:

    • Thou shalt not connect non-corporate devices to the corporate network
    or
    • Thou shalt not connect non-corporate devices to the corporate network except for ipods, and then only for charging; and headphones; or those cute little usb fans; or toasters; except on the last day of term, when anything goes really.

    ???

    TRWTF is that you thought diluting the policy simply to suit your own selfish ends would be a good idea. Worse, you just thought that you'd circumvent it without even asking whether it would be OK before doing it. Had you asked, you'd have been able to say that the sysadmin says it's OK, go and whine at him.



  • @drbhoneydew said:

    I'll bet there were people like you in Gomorrah.

    Lot: God says thou shalt not covet another man's wife.
    Snoofle's Great great great great...: The policy is intended to prevent jealous husbands 
         from going round killing covetters. Since her husband doesn't know, and he's away 
         all weekend, no-one's getting hurt. Accordingly, no covetter killing is possible. I'm 
         simply having a bit of fun.
    Lot: God says...
    That chap: Yes, but you have to understand what it means...
    Lot (sounding like he's in a Cecil B De Mille film): God won't be happy...
    That chap: I'd like to talk to a city elder
    City elder: I understand you've been playing away from home...
    That chap: *Yes, but her husband isn't going to find out*
    City elder: That seems to make sense, but policy is clear...
    That chap: Blind obedience to something you don't understand doesn't make sense.  
         Let's talk to somebody on the religious side, from whence the policy came.
    Angel of Death: (Rains down fireballs, for God is not to be messed with).
    

    The policy was phrased in simple terms precisely so that _everyone_ could understand it - which is clearer:

    • Thou shalt not connect non-corporate devices to the corporate network
    or
    • Thou shalt not connect non-corporate devices to the corporate network except for ipods, and then only for charging; and headphones; or those cute little usb fans; or toasters; except on the last day of term, when anything goes really.

    ???

    TRWTF is that you thought diluting the policy simply to suit your own selfish ends would be a good idea. Worse, you just thought that you'd circumvent it without even asking whether it would be OK before doing it. Had you asked, you'd have been able to say that the sysadmin says it's OK, go and whine at him.

     

     

    Equivocation of violation of a spiritually-mandated law of morality from a supreme being with plugging in your iPod to charge it.

    You win the internet sir.



  • I've been thinking and I've reached the conclusion that everyone should get corporate-issued iPods to prevent cases just like this.



  • @drbhoneydew said:

    I'll bet there were people like you in Gomorrah.

    Lot: God says thou shalt not covet another man's wife.
    Snoofle's Great great great great...: The policy is intended to prevent jealous husbands
    from going round killing covetters. Since her husband doesn't know, and he's away
    all weekend, no-one's getting hurt. Accordingly, no covetter killing is possible. I'm
    simply having a bit of fun.
    Lot: God says...
    That chap: Yes, but you have to understand what it means...
    Lot (sounding like he's in a Cecil B De Mille film): God won't be happy...
    That chap: I'd like to talk to a city elder
    City elder: I understand you've been playing away from home...
    That chap: *Yes, but her husband isn't going to find out*
    City elder: That seems to make sense, but policy is clear...
    That chap: Blind obedience to something you don't understand doesn't make sense.
    Let's talk to somebody on the religious side, from whence the policy came.
    Angel of Death: (Rains down fireballs, for God is not to be messed with).

    The policy was phrased in simple terms precisely so that _everyone_ could understand it - which is clearer:

    • Thou shalt not connect non-corporate devices to the corporate network
    or
    • Thou shalt not connect non-corporate devices to the corporate network except for ipods, and then only for charging; and headphones; or those cute little usb fans; or toasters; except on the last day of term, when anything goes really.

    ???

    TRWTF is that you thought diluting the policy simply to suit your own selfish ends would be a good idea. Worse, you just thought that you'd circumvent it without even asking whether it would be OK before doing it. Had you asked, you'd have been able to say that the sysadmin says it's OK, go and whine at him.

    I completely disagree with this. Little USB fans are not cute.

    @Zecc said:

    I've been thinking and I've reached the conclusion that everyone should
    get corporate-issued iPods to prevent cases just like this.
    Win.

     



  •  I'll need to see if I can dig up the security policy for where I am now. 

    In addition to the no USB policy (which is silly because much of the companies code is on USB hard drives) the policy prohibits insecure devices such as I-phones*, camera phones, and digital cameras.  Not just for hooking to the machine, but 'in the building' (no it's not enforced). (how it was spelled in the document)

     It touts the importance of 'secure' windows passwords on unencrypted drives. *secure meaning letters and numbers etc. Meanwhile loading a linux live cd would bring full access to everything.  Additionally passwords must be changed every 25 days, you can't have the same password you used the last 15 passwords, you can't change your password more than once a day etc. And it starts giving you daily reminders when your password is 3 weeks from expiring.

    It stresses the importance of using e-mail for sensitive documents instead of share drives (it's an external unencrypted e-mail system).

    Also under a strict interpretation using of the document sending eachother e-mail or using the internet is prohibited.  (All of their work is web related)

    -MBirchmeier



  • @drbhoneydew said:

    I'll bet there were people like you in Gomorrah.

    I'll bet the people he talked to were like you, following corporate policy as divine commandments.



  • @MBirchmeier said:

     I'll need to see if I can dig up the security policy for where I am now. 

    In addition to the no USB policy (which is silly because much of the companies code is on USB hard drives) the policy prohibits insecure devices such as I-phones*, camera phones, and digital cameras.  Not just for hooking to the machine, but 'in the building' (no it's not enforced). (*how it was spelled in the document)

     It touts the importance of 'secure'* windows passwords on unencrypted drives. *secure meaning letters and numbers etc. Meanwhile loading a linux live cd would bring full access to everything.  Additionally passwords must be changed every 25 days, you can't have the same password you used the last 15 passwords, you can't change your password more than once a day etc. And it starts giving you daily reminders when your password is 3 weeks from expiring.

    It stresses the importance of using e-mail for sensitive documents instead of share drives (it's an external unencrypted e-mail system).

    Also under a strict interpretation using of the document sending eachother e-mail or using the internet is prohibited.  (All of their work is web related)

    -MBirchmeier

    Hey, that sounds just like my older job! Except some of those rules were actually enforced.

    USB pendrives were restricted, that is, you couldn't bring one unless you had an access permit signed by the area director, and even then it required god knows how many signatures for that. Of course, USB drives being so small, they didn't even activate the metal detector and thus were kind of overlooked. However, if security got its hands on your USB drive while inside the building, it would be retained by them. Ugh.

    The other devices they didn't allow were basically anything programmable: laptops, harddrives, and even smartphones. (This is also the reason I didn't buy a BlackBerry until I switched jobs.) All of them bound by the "God-allowed permit" rules ... which by the way, had a 5-day maximum validity.

    Even with the USB "tolerance", I once got berated by my boss because I plugged in a Bluetooth dongle on my PC; my boss was extremely paranoid on that point, so I backed down. Still, I found it funny that the IT head of security's laptop showed up in my BT device scan...

    Anyway ... I usually plugged in my reliable W300 to the USB port, as it served both as a USB drive and for charging! I do the same with my BlackBerry now, but the difference is that we don't have Borg rules over here. Oh, by the way, most of those restrictions have been dropped in my former job.



  • To Various: I do have a wall-charger at home (see below) 

    @Zagyg said:

    @DOA said:

    Oh and who's the prat that turned you in? I want to hear that story.

    Agreed - your tales are well written and funny, I'm sure this would be no exception!  Please do tell.

    The rule was always "don't plug anything from home into the network", but the techies who enforced the rules realized that nobody plugged in their iPods to use as drives because everyone has flash drives, and (mostly) abided by the no-plug-in (flash drives) rule. As such, plugging in the iPod was an inoffensive violation and overlooked. In all the years of iPods existence, not one issue was ever encountered.

    Our company recently got bought out (deservedly so) by a much Much MUCH larger entity  beaurocracy cluster-WTF. Now they have peons walking around looking to see what people are doing. I just happen to sit in a semi-visible place. As for the rule, my boss laughed it off and told HR to get a clue. Of course, I brought in my wall plug.

    I am now awaiting the complaint that I am using corporate resources (electricity) for personal use. You know, if all 200+K of us did it, it would be a several KW of power in addition to the tens of MW the company already uses... (Yes, I know that's sort of a realistic argument, but in the grand scheme of things around here, it's like complaining that I spent 2 cents extra for pleasure when the total bill was several $million)

     



  • @snoofle said:

    Now they have peons walking around looking to see what people are doing.

     

    I am adding "Do you have peons walking around looking to see what people are doing?" to my list of "if you answer yes to this, I am not going to work here" questions to ask in interviews.  Thanks.



  • This reminds me of a story where someone littered a bunch of USB sticks outside a bank before lunch time to test the security. And sure enough, a few employees picked up a stick and proceeded to unwittingly install trojans on the bank's PCs.

    Ofcourse, those PCs were probably all running on administrator privileges. But running on user priviliges is no guarantee that the machine cannot be compromized.



  • @SpoonMeiser said:

    I like how they follow your advice to consult with a tech, but just ignore what he says.

     

    Because scum like these are not interested in the truth, just the status quo in their fantasy world.



  •  I'm reminded of the 6-person company I worked for a year ago.  The PC I was given to do my work on was an aging Pentium III (yes, three) whose video card somehow managed to do 1280x1024.  I started bringing in my laptop to do work on, since it was faster, had more ram, had more hard drive space, and had better screen resolution.  Its network card was probably faster too (it matters when you're throwing several-hundred-MB files around all day).  My productivity soared (i'm not even being sarcastic!).

    About four months later I got an e-mail from the boss saying "Laptops, flash drives, and iPods are no longer allowed.  Except for my laptop.  And [the lead programmer]'s laptop."  Note that only three of us brought laptops, including the boss and the lead programmer, and only the other peon brought his iPod.  The rule was clearly targetted at the two of us.

    I asked the boss about it, bringing up everything from the productivity boost I had gained to the crappiness of the Pentium III machine to the spirit of the rule (I keep my computers secure).  His reply was "a client wanted assurance of a security policy being enforced, and that no data would be stolen."  The lead programmer - who was present for almost all meetings with almost every client - told me that no client had requested such a policy.  I would also like to point out that we had permission to ssh in to the server from off-site, not to mention that we could FTP to anywhere from on-site, so if we were dead-set on stealing data then banning USB drives would do nothing to prevent it.  I'd be willing to bet that if the same server is still running there, then my ssh login is still enabled...

    I'm still confused why that boss did that.

    Other WTFs from that boss:

    - Hiring me and the other peon at $X/hr, then sending us an e-mail saying "I'm looking for people to work here to do [half as much work as us peons] for $(X+2)/hr.  Send them my way if you know of anyone."

    - Telling the secretary that he thought I had messed up the database one day and was too scared to come clean (I hadn't touched that database in weeks at that point).

    - Yelling at the other peon for screwing up a database import that the peon had never done before, when in fact the peon followed the boss' instructions to the letter - the boss' instructions were missing a vital step.

    - Claiming the marketing guy was worthless, when in fact the company's business more than quadrupled shortly after the marketing guy was hired.

    - Refusing to give the marketing guy a full sales commission because he couldn't answer all the minor technical questions and had to transfer the prospective clients to the boss for those answers.

    - Giving us a $1/hr raise after the lead programmer quit in an attempt to appease our disgruntlement... I guess he realized that if he lost us too, he'd have four workloads to do by himself.  (It didn't work... I gave notice a few weeks later).

    - Refusing to give me work to do during my last three weeks of employment there after I gave notice, despite him being overwhelmed with three workloads and despite me asking several times an hour for an assignment the entire time.



  • TRWTF: @snoofle said:

      I have an iPod, and although it can't transfer data between itself and the PC without a driver (presumably iTunes),
    I have a PC at work that is locked down also.  And my MP3 player works just fine - no need for a "driver".  I've never encountered an MP3 player that requires a "driver" to transfer files.  Makes you wonder why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is such a genius.



  • @Heron said:

    - Refusing to give me work to do during my last three weeks of employment there after I gave notice, despite him being overwhelmed with three workloads and despite me asking several times an hour for an assignment the entire time.

     

    Ha ha, sounds like his crime, was also his punishment. Fantastic.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    TRWTF: @snoofle said:

    I have an iPod, and although it can't transfer data between itself and the PC without a driver (presumably iTunes),
    I have a PC at work that is locked down also.  And my MP3 player works just fine - no need for a "driver".  I've never encountered an MP3 player that requires a "driver" to transfer files.  Makes you wonder why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is such a genius.

    If an MP3 player doesn't need a driver, that means it's announcing itself to the computer as a USB mass-storage device. Consequently, the OS will treat it just like a USB hard drive. The IPod, on the other hand, announces itself as something else. The downside is that it requires a driver; the upside is much tighter integration with iTunes.



  • @Carnildo said:

    (...)The IPod, on the other hand, announces itself as something else. The downside is that it requires a driver; the upside is much tighter integration with iTunes.
    I wouldn't think of "tighter integration with iTunes" as an upside, unless I were Steve Jobs.

    Windows Media Player integrates perfectly with anything even remotely similar to an mp3 player, the "Sync playlist" option works even on USB drives. My only quirk with that is that Media Player insists on converting all the files to .wma whenever it can.



  • 2 years ago, my company introduced a new policy which forced everyone to tick a box that they agreed otherwise their account got locked out.  Since there's no way of viewing the policy after you've ticked the box, I am paraphrasing instead of quoting, but there was a line in the middle that said something like "Thou shalt not create or cause to be created any website."

    Because I operate a personal website, I couldn't tick the box and my account got locked out.

    Eventually one of the higher-ups had to sit down with me and explain that the policy didn't really mean what it said, didn't apply to me and I could ignore it if I wanted to.  I'm happy with that outcome.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    Makes you wonder why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is such a genius.
     

    You act surprised by this - it's just Apple following it's standard "enforce use of our technology and platform by us and no one else" corporate stance. It hasn't changed since Apple was born, and likely never will.



  • @Qwerty said:

    2 years ago, my company introduced a new policy which forced everyone to tick a box that they agreed otherwise their account got locked out.  Since there's no way of viewing the policy after you've ticked the box, I am paraphrasing instead of quoting, but there was a line in the middle that said something like "Thou shalt not create or cause to be created any website."

    Because I operate a personal website, I couldn't tick the box and my account got locked out.

    Eventually one of the higher-ups had to sit down with me and explain that the policy didn't really mean what it said, didn't apply to me and I could ignore it if I wanted to.  I'm happy with that outcome.

    I remember back in my "financial institution" job that some wise guy asked the IT security folks to block all users from setting up "webservers". Thing is, I doubt that switches are able to "firewall" such services as they all are in the same subnet.


  • @Carnildo said:

    If an MP3 player doesn't need a driver, that means it's announcing itself to the computer as a USB mass-storage device. Consequently, the OS will treat it just like a USB hard drive. The IPod, on the other hand, announces itself as something else. The downside is that it requires a driver; the upside is much tighter integration with iTunes.
    Actually, iPoo announces itself as a normal USB drive (or at least the few I've worked with did), however it's firmware will not play any audio file that's not written in it's database - this is what iTunes is needed for. There are 3rd party programs that can populate this database, however Apple is actively trying to lock them out with firmware updates. Note that Ipods can be formatted with either FAT32 or HFS filesystem, and if you connect a HFS-formatted iPod to Windows, you'll only be able to charge it, since Windows doesn't support HFS (you can also reformat it with iTunes to FAT32, but that'll erase everything on the drive).



  • Some lovely security tidbits from a former employer:

    1. Two networks - the corporate network and the dev network.  Access between the two limited to Remote Desktop, SSH, and a couple of network drives.  That's not so bad except when taken in combination with #2 and #3

    2. Company-issued laptops only functioned on the corporate network.  No dev network machines allowed at desks.  So all dev work *had* to be done via Remote Desktop or some equivalent technology.  My expensive overpowered corporate laptop basically provided me with email and an RDC connection to the dev world.

    3. No dev network access in conference rooms.  To do any kind of demo in a conference, you *had* to take your coroporate laptop and use Remote Desktop.  Royal pain in the neck.

    OK, the above are annoying but at least make a tiny bit of sense - they wanted to lock down the corporate network so that us geeks can't muck up the important stuff like sales and marketing.  The one-set-of-rules-fits-all mentality is utterly stupid, though - the machine whose keys I actually press should be the machine suited for my primary job.  If I'm in sales, that's email/contact management; if I'm in marketing, that's, um, whatever marketing people use; if I'm a developer, that's development.

    But in any case, the rest of these are utterly senseless.

    4. No POP3 access to the outside world from anywhere - outside email was considered a security risk.  Web-based mail was considered safe, as was NNTP-based news, but not email.

    5. No SSH to the corporate network or outside world from the dev network.  In fact, very little outside world access from the dev network (I believe they had started allowing web access from dev just before I started there (via acquisition of $REALLY_COOL_SMALL_COMPANY, by the way.  I never would have gone there on my own).

    6. Network and program usage on the corporate network/machines were very heavily monitored.

    The combination of #4, 5, and 6 caused a bunch of us to end up running SSH from corporate to dev, then tunnelling via that from dev to the outside world, effectively bypassing all of the security restrictions.  At least one IT guy was aware of this and (luckily) turned a blind eye because he knew how stupid the policies were.

    7. Almost none of the corporate systems (email, intranet, expense reporting, etc) shared common technology or security.  This resulted in umpteen different passwords, each of which had to follow slightly different rules and had to be changed frequently.  Net result: people tended to write down all of their passwords.  Others (myself included) would use a single password that met all requirements (luckily there weren't any mutually exclusive ones).  On password-expiry day, I'd spend 15 minutes or so changing my password multiple times until I could cycle back to the one I liked (luckily, we didn't have the only-change-it-once-per-day rule cited by MBirchmeier).

    I work in a much happier place now ...



  • @ender said:

    @Carnildo said:
    If an MP3 player doesn't need a driver, that means it's announcing itself to the computer as a USB mass-storage device. Consequently, the OS will treat it just like a USB hard drive. The IPod, on the other hand, announces itself as something else. The downside is that it requires a driver; the upside is much tighter integration with iTunes.
    Actually, iPoo announces itself as a normal USB drive (or at least the few I've worked with did), however it's firmware will not play any audio file that's not written in it's database - this is what iTunes is needed for. There are 3rd party programs that can populate this database, however Apple is actively trying to lock them out with firmware updates. Note that Ipods can be formatted with either FAT32 or HFS filesystem, and if you connect a HFS-formatted iPod to Windows, you'll only be able to charge it, since Windows doesn't support HFS (you can also reformat it with iTunes to FAT32, but that'll erase everything on the drive).
    I've found the easiest way around the apple lockouts is to install a 3rd party shell onto the iPod.  Rockbox is the one I use and I'm sure there's others that work just as well if not bette (Rockbox is the first one I've tried).  Granted, then you can't play the newly added songs from the other shell and vice versa.  But it's a good way to eliminate the need for itunes, and silly play/transfer restrictions.

     -MBirchmeier



  •  TRWTF is that your office has a snitch who would actually report co-workers.  I say you take him/her out back and show them what happens to rats.



  • @ObiWayneKenobi said:

    TRWTF is that your office has a snitch who would actually report co-workers.  I say you take him/her out back and show them what happens to rats.

    What would that be?  Paying taxes on the cheese they accumulate? 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Paying taxes on the cheese they accumulate? 
     

    Stop being a sheeple! Taxes are unconstitutional and therefore cannot be enforced! In order for the rats to pay taxes, they would have to admit to the consumption of said cheese, and that would be self incrimination!


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