MSN Live WTF



  • So I have a MSN Live account that I hardly ever use. For some reason, I had to sign into it today, and I realized that I had forgotten the password. Not a Problem I though, and clicked on the "Forgot your password" link

    I am taken to the page, where I enter my Email address, and enter the CAPTCHA. After that, I am taken to another pages, which asks me, how I want to reset the password. I want to get a message on my alternate email, so I click on "send password reset instruction to me in email".. and this is what I see

    MSN WTF

    What's the WTF, do you ask me? well the censored option, is the emaill of account, I have forgotten the password to. How they expect me to sign into that account to see the email, is beyond me.



  • IIRC there is nothing to stop you from having a Windows Live™ account with a non-Hotmail (or whatever it is called these days) account. Hence you might be able to read your default e-mail address.

    Or do I get something wrong?



  • @dev3 said:

    How they expect me to sign into that account to see the email, is beyond me.
     

    Maybe all the email going to that account is forwarded? <troll type="gmail">It's what I'd do, if I was forced to use Windows Live Email</troll>

    When I first saw the picture, I thought that you could specify the alternate e-mail address. Now that would've been fun.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    1. You can check your Hotmail or whatever with a real mail client. Your mail client may have the password saved.
    2. The "Alternate email" is optional.
    3. You can have your Live account associated with a non-Microsoft email address. I do.


  • Sure I could have a non Hotmail/Live email connected to this account,But that is not the case here. The email address shown here, is in fact an "@live.com" email address



  • @dev3 said:

    Sure I could have a non Hotmail/Live email connected to this account,But that is not the case here. The email address shown here, is in fact an "@live.com" email address

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but doesn't the text on the right actually state that you may still be able to receive the instructions via that account ?



  • @SenTree said:

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but doesn't the text on the right actually state that you may still be able to receive the instructions via that account ?
     

    I noticed that too, and was wondering the same thing...

    Could it be that dev3 just didn't bother to read before deciding it was a WTF? 



  • @KenW said:

    Could it be that dev3 just didn't bother to read before deciding it was a WTF? 
     

    No way! That never happens on the Side Bar!



  • No that Link doesn't help one bit. The help link, links to https://help.live.com//help.aspx?project=liveidv1&market=en-in&querytype=keyword&query=teser_drowssap_liame&tmt=&format=b1 Which you can see, doesn't say anything about my situation



  • @dev3 said:

    No that Link doesn't help one bit. The help link, links to https://help.live.com//help.aspx?project=liveidv1&market=en-in&querytype=keyword&query=teser_drowssap_liame&tmt=&format=b1 Which you can see, doesn't say anything about my situation

    True.

    To reset your password by requesting a password reset e-mail:
    1. On any Windows Live website or service sign-in page, click Forgot your password.
    2. Enter your Windows Live ID, type the characters you see in the Picture box, and then click Continue.
    3. Select Send password reset instructions to me in e-mail.
    4. In the list, select the e-mail address where you want the password reset e-mail to be sent, and then click Continue.
    5. On the confirmation page, click OK.
    6. When you receive the password reset e-mail, click the link in the e-mail to reset your password, and then follow the online instructions.

    Ok ... and how might I receive my password reset e-mail if I don't remember my f'in password???

    The true WTF might be that the "suggestion" given in the reset password page is shown in the Notes section of said help link:

  • If you're using a Windows Live ID for your alternate e-mail address and you've selected Remember me on this computer and Remember my password on the login screen, you'll be able to log into your e-mail and retrieve your password.
  • Oooh ... so you're pretty much screwed if you didn't do something as security-compromising as saving your password on the Windows Live ID screen. And if they're talking about using the alternate e-mail address ... well its supposed to be that you have access to the alternate e-mail anyway. Yep, WTF indeed!



  • @danixdefcon5 said:

    Ok ... and how might I receive my password reset e-mail if I don't remember my f'in password???

    You have an alternate email account or you still have login credentials stored in your browser or email client.

     

    @danixdefcon5 said:

    Oooh ... so you're pretty much screwed if you didn't do something as security-compromising as saving your password on the Windows Live ID screen. And if they're talking about using the alternate e-mail address ... well its supposed to be that you have access to the alternate e-mail anyway. Yep, WTF indeed!

    Saving your passwords on your own machine is not a security-compromising WTF.  Also, I think you have to have an alternate email address to sign up for Hotmail, but even if you don't how else are they going to handle a password reset?  They have to have an email to send the reset confirmation to, it's either got to be your alternate email account or the one you are trying to reset.  This is a pretty reasonable way for handling lost passwords.



  • @dev3 said:

    No that Link doesn't help one bit. The help link, links to https://help.live.com//help.aspx?project=liveidv1&market=en-in&querytype=keyword&query=teser_drowssap_liame&tmt=&format=b1 Which you can see, doesn't say anything about my situation

    However it did provide help for many other users and it only says it may help.  There's no other way to handle this, really.  You're the one who forgot your password, they're just trying to provide you with as many options as possible to reset it. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

     You're the one who forgot your password, they're just trying to provide you with as many options as possible to reset it. 

    As I mentioned in my orignal post, I wanted to get the email on my alternate email address, and that is the option I selected. Things went fine after that, and I could reset the password without any problems.

    I just find it weird, that just when only one email account is linked to this live account, MSN, thinks that it's a valid solution to send the email, to the account which I cannot open.



  • @dev3 said:

    I just find it weird, that just when only one email account is linked to this live account, MSN, thinks that it's a valid solution to send the email, to the account which I cannot open.

    As has been stated many times in this thread and is clearly on the help page you linked it could be possible you have the credentials saved in your email client so you can get the reset confirmation email without knowing the password.  What part of this are you failing to grasp?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    As has been stated many times in this thread and is clearly on the help page you linked it could be possible you have the credentials saved in your email client so you can get the reset confirmation email without knowing the password.  What part of this are you failing to grasp?
     

    Look, it is clear this guy is just learning to use a computer, and somehow found our forum. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @dev3 said:

    I just find it weird, that just when only one email account is linked to this live account, MSN, thinks that it's a valid solution to send the email, to the account which I cannot open.

    As has been stated many times in this thread and is clearly on the help page you linked it could be possible you have the credentials saved in your email client so you can get the reset confirmation email without knowing the password.  What part of this are you failing to grasp?

    If you're using a Windows Live ID for your alternate e-mail address and you've selected Remember me on this computer and Remember my password on the login screen, you'll be able to log into your e-mail and retrieve your password.

    Note ... for your alternate e-mail address. That is, another account where you do have access. Meanwhile, the help article doesn't mention a case for "select my own address, send confirmation e-mail to locked out account, access account by using saved credentials." That's the WTF he's talking about, as the previous screen linking to this article states you can do.

    Of course we understand what that paragraph means, but help files are supposed to be helpful for clueless users. Anyway ... I think the security question is a far quicker method for resetting passwords in Hotmail. Though I do wonder why do most "security questions" force me to use stupid questions like "What's my dog's name?" instead of letting me type in my own question. Most pre-made security questions are usually information that any friend of mine would know, and thus insecure.




  • Also, the only situation in which the "help" would actually help is if:

    1. You have your credentials stored on computer A
    2. You attempt to log in from computer B, realize that you forgot your password, and remember that you can log in automatically from computer A



      Otherwise, if you always automatically log in from computer A with saved credentials, how would you know that you forgot your password in the first place?



  • @cconroy said:

    Also, the only situation in which the "help" would actually help is if:

    1. You have your credentials stored on computer A
    2. You attempt to log in from computer B, realize that you forgot your password, and remember that you can log in automatically from computer A



      Otherwise, if you always automatically log in from computer A with saved credentials, how would you know that you forgot your password in the first place?
     

     

    Again. It may help you.

    It doesn't say "This is the solution to all your problems."



  • @cconroy said:


    Also, the only situation in which the "help" would actually help is if:

    1. You have your credentials stored on computer A
    2. You attempt to log in from computer B, realize that you forgot your password, and remember that you can log in automatically from computer A



      Otherwise, if you always automatically log in from computer A with saved credentials, how would you know that you forgot your password in the first place?

    Or if you have the credentials stored in another browser or in your mail client.  The point is it is possible to get into the account without a password and this is clearly stated on the help page. 



  • You forgot the pw to your dev3@hotmail.com account? 



  • @TheDude said:

    You forgot the pw to your dev3@hotmail.com account? 

     

    Wait! It could be dev3@live.com too! 



  • Of course it's a WTF. It'd be just like if you forgot your password here and Community Server helpfully offered to send you a private message.



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    Of course it's a WTF. It'd be just like if you forgot your password here and Community Server helpfully offered to send you a private message.

    RIGHT.

    I find it funny how a simple thing like this turned into another of those "there is no WTF here" threads. There are even IT jokes about this: "Your password for mymail@crapmail.com has been reset. Your new password will be delivered shortly at mymail@crapmail.com . Have a nice day!!!"



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    Of course it's a WTF. It'd be just like if you forgot your password here and Community Server helpfully offered to send you a private message.
     

    Considering CS emails you the PMs I would say that is not a WTF at all.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Considering CS emails you the PMs I would say that is not a WTF at all.

     

     

    Wow, for once I actually agree with MPS! 



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    Of course it's a WTF. It'd be just like if you forgot your password here and Community Server helpfully offered to send you a private message.

    Once again, it is not a WTF.  They give you the option to email the reset link to your alternate email or to your Hotmail account.  It is possible to get your mail from your Hotmail account even if you do not remember the password.  This is explained clearly on the help page and has been explained several times already in this thread.  If you cannot grasp the very obvious concept that having the ability to retrieve mail from the account is not the same as knowing the password, then there is no hope for you.  It's not like this is the only option, either, the alternate email address is what most people would use, but this provides a second mechanism to reset the password.  This actually is quite useful because your alternate account may have long ago been shut down.  If this is the case then you would be completely screwed without the Hotmail option.  As it is, it provides a possible option for people who would otherwise lose their Hotmail account completely.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Saving your passwords on your own machine is not a security-compromising WTF.  Also, I think you have to have an alternate email address to sign up for Hotmail, but even if you don't how else are they going to handle a password reset?  They have to have an email to send the reset confirmation to, it's either got to be your alternate email account or the one you are trying to reset.  This is a pretty reasonable way for handling lost passwords.

    I don't know if they still do this, but like many sites Hotmail used to have the option to create a new password for your account by answering a security question. One of these was 'What is your favourite football team?', and I could not believe how many people selected this one, as practically anybody who knew them could change their password. Out of curiosity, and nothing more than that of course, I once tried logging in as 'liverpooolfc@...', and was amazed to find that this person had chosen the football security question. Too bad I couldn't work out the answer, though.


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