Forum Guidelines Discussion



  • Several of the newbies, as well as long-time lurkers, have complained about the lack of guidelines about posting, but I felt it would be a good idea to keep discussion of guidelines to a separate thread from the discussion of existing moderation. Putting this thread here in General Discussion seemed like a more appropriate location as the rules are not meant to be a WTF. I feel the guidelines for posting should be in 2 parts, covering the forum software and the etiquette.
    If this is felt to be a good idea, then a sticky thread can be created with the results of the discussion.

    Forum Software

    This forum uses community Server, which has some strange quirks, so to minimise our pain and yours, some basic instructions are below

    1. There are many flaws with the standard and enhanced editors, which require Javascript to run. If you prefer to use the plain text editor, this can be set in your profile.
      1. In some browsers, particularly IE, newlines are not properly converted to HTML. You should therefore check the preview tab on the post page and edit the HTML manually if necessary before posting
      2. In Firefox, the comment field is not spellchecked by default. To turn it on, right-click in the field and select "Spell check this field"
      We know most of the flaws of the editor, so unless you find a security hole or something really major, we don't need to be told again.
    2. the edit time-out is very short, so use the preview function and think before you post.
    3. In the editor, if you click on the quote button without any text selected, the entire post is quoted. If part of the text is selected, the selected text is quoted.

    Posting Etiquette

    1. Do not quote the entire OP.
    2. If you are replying to anyone else, please quote the relevant excerpt from the post to provide context.
    3. Each reply should be to one post only (so that the comments appear in the correct place in the threaded view)
    4. We know that you can post arbitrary HTML. Please don't abuse this, it isn't funny any more
    5. If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please PM them, or take the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia
    6. Not all of the forum users are native speakers of English. Please be polite to them.
    7. Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such
    8. Conversely, please do not post an incoherent mess. If we can't understand it, at best you will be ignored

    Please remember that these are guidelines, not rules: even if this doesn't say you cannot do something it doesn't mean you won't get banned for it. In short, don't be a jerk.

    Does anyone think anything should be added?
    Does anyone think this is redundant?

    Please keep this discussion civil, and try to stay on topic. This thread is simply meant to come up with useful information for newbies, not to argue about past events. The idea is that if we have such a guidelines thread, people can point newbies to it and if they disagree with what they read they can discuss the matter there, leaving the rest of our threads unpolluted.



  • I agree with the guidelines 100%.

     

    Thanks for writing them down.



  • I largely agree with the guidelines. Just a few comments:

    1. Should a note be added with regards to using Opera?

    2. I think 'PM' should be defined and maybe a little note on it.  I know that I went the longest time trying to figure out that it meant "Personal Message".

    3. I would also add a note about how the "Insert/edit link" button is only active when your text is highlighted.  It isn't a disabled feature.

    That's all I can think of right now... 



  • I see that AmmoQ has locked the Moderation thread. I didn't mean to try to go around him by creating a new thread, in fact I had written most of this last night but forgot to post until this morning

    I ought to add a section explaining out various memes as well, but I will have to track down the original mug and sticker links, adn decide which are worth explaining and which to let them figure out for themselves.



  • @Physics Phil said:

    I ought to add a section explaining out various memes as well

    Please don't. That is defintely going way too far and would take a lot of fun away from us.

     

    Moderator's note: bs removed



  •  I'd add a couple more bits to the Etiquette section:

    a) Do not needlessly resurrect old threads. If the last reply in a  thread is more than 1 week old, please consider the discussion as "mostly dead", and anything beyond 2 weeks as completely dead.

    b) Do not spam the forums with 'me too!' type posts. This is not AOL.



  •  Phil, thanks for all the work you've put in drafting those guidelines. Please just add a very important one (actually more a rule than a guideline):

    Please do not try to enforce those guidelines when others violate them. Discussions about which guideline was violated or not and why are inherently off-topic.

     



  • here is the updated version to includde the suggestions made by others

    Forum Software

    This forum uses community Server, which has some strange quirks, so to minimise our pain and yours, some basic instructions are below

    • There are many flaws with the standard and enhanced editors, which require Javascript to run. If you prefer to use the plain text editor, this can be set in your profile.
      • In some browsers, particularly IE and Opera, newlines are not properly converted to HTML. You should therefore check the preview tab on the post page and edit the HTML manually if necessary before posting. Opera can also cause other mangling of posts. There is a button in the editor tab to do this.
      • In Firefox, the comment field is not spellchecked by default. To turn it on, right-click in the field and select "Spell check this field"
      • The insert/edit link button only works if you have text highlighted. This is a feature, not a bug.
      We know most of the flaws of the editor, so unless you find a security hole or something really major, we don't need to be told again.
    • the edit time-out is very short, so use the preview function and think before you post.
    • In the editor, if you click on the quote button without any text selected, the entire post is quoted. If part of the text is selected, the selected text is quoted.
    • Most instances of people's usernames are links to their profile. From here you can send them a private message, as well as see some of their public information

    Posting Etiquette

    Please do not try to enforce those guidelines when others violate them. Discussions about which guideline was violated or not and why are inherently off-topic.

    This is the Golden Rule. The items below are guidelines, not rules: even if this doesn't say you cannot do something it doesn't mean you won't get banned for it. In short, don't be a jerk.

    • Do not quote the entire original post (OP).
    • If you are replying to anyone else, please quote the relevant excerpt from the post to provide context.
    • Each reply should be to one post only (so that the comments appear in the correct place in the threaded view)
    • We know that you can post arbitrary HTML. Please don't abuse this, it isn't funny any more
    • If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please send them a private message (PM), or take the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia
    • Not all of the forum users are native speakers of English. Please be polite to them.
    • Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such
    • Conversely, please do not post an incoherent mess. If we can't understand it, at best you will be ignored
    • Do not needlessly resurrect old threads. If the last reply in a thread is more than 1 week old, please consider the discussion as "mostly dead", and anything beyond 2 weeks as completely dead.
    • Do not spam the forums with 'me too!' type posts. This is not AOL.


  • I am way too lazy to edit that, but basically that's my opinion:

    [23:01] <DrJokepu> my problem with phil's list that the whole point of sarcasm that you don't tell it's sarcasm. it's like an iq-test.
    tagging sarcasm with </sarcasm> is plain faggotry i think
    [23:01] <mps> dr, stfu noob
    [23:01] <mps> DrJokepu: was that sarcasm?
    [23:02] <DrJokepu> ^_^
    [23:02] <hedonismbot> no u!
    [23:02] <drjokepu> was that sarcasm?
    [23:02] <mps> DrJokepu: your face is sarcasm, fgt
    [23:02] <morbz> DrJokepu: I agree.
    [23:03] <mps> I just dislike coddling people 
    [23:03] <mps> I think we should expect a certain level of intelligence on the forum
    [23:04] <mps> of course that doesnt explain why morb is here
    [23:05] <morbz> DrJokepu: Can you imagine if Jonathan Swift had been like "Begin sarcasm.."
    [23:05] <ammoq> DrJokepu: why don't you post your opinion about the sarcasm-tag in phil's thread? I'm sure many people agree with you.
    


  • @Physics Phil said:

    Several of the newbies, as well as long-time lurkers, have complained about the lack of guidelines about posting, but I felt it would be a good idea to keep discussion of guidelines to a separate thread from the discussion of existing moderation. Putting this thread here in General Discussion seemed like a more appropriate location as the rules are not meant to be a WTF. I feel the guidelines for posting should be in 2 parts, covering the forum software and the etiquette.
    If this is felt to be a good idea, then a sticky thread can be created with the results of the discussion.

    Forum Software

    This forum uses community Server, which has some strange quirks, so to minimise our pain and yours, some basic instructions are below

    1. There are many flaws with the standard and enhanced editors, which require Javascript to run. If you prefer to use the plain text editor, this can be set in your profile.
      1. In some browsers, particularly IE, newlines are not properly converted to HTML. You should therefore check the preview tab on the post page and edit the HTML manually if necessary before posting
      2. In Firefox, the comment field is not spellchecked by default. To turn it on, right-click in the field and select "Spell check this field"
      We know most of the flaws of the editor, so unless you find a security hole or something really major, we don't need to be told again.
    2. the edit time-out is very short, so use the preview function and think before you post.
    3. In the editor, if you click on the quote button without any text selected, the entire post is quoted. If part of the text is selected, the selected text is quoted.

    Posting Etiquette

    1. Do not quote the entire OP.
    2. If you are replying to anyone else, please quote the relevant excerpt from the post to provide context.
    3. Each reply should be to one post only (so that the comments appear in the correct place in the threaded view)
    4. We know that you can post arbitrary HTML. Please don't abuse this, it isn't funny any more
    5. If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please PM them, or take the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia
    6. Not all of the forum users are native speakers of English. Please be polite to them.
    7. Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such
    8. Conversely, please do not post an incoherent mess. If we can't understand it, at best you will be ignored

    Please remember that these are guidelines, not rules: even if this doesn't say you cannot do something it doesn't mean you won't get banned for it. In short, don't be a jerk.

    Does anyone think anything should be added?
    Does anyone think this is redundant?

    Please keep this discussion civil, and try to stay on topic. This thread is simply meant to come up with useful information for newbies, not to argue about past events. The idea is that if we have such a guidelines thread, people can point newbies to it and if they disagree with what they read they can discuss the matter there, leaving the rest of our threads unpolluted.

    As for the forum software, deal with it. Either get your ass to Cleveland and become Alex's personal assistant and redo the site or deal with it. Given the subject matter on TDWTF, its expected for the readers to either have some IT background or be in the middle of learning it.

    You're never going to be able to enforce politeness.

    TDWTF has a history and a lot of its own meme's (thus quoting the entire OP), its amusing. Again deal with it. God forbid the modern internet generation have to read and filter information for themselves.

    Almost forgot. I use Opera so you're going to have to deal with my line breaks.

    I'll wait until the thread gets back on track then derail it again by posting in my medicore German.



  • @Rotary Jihad said:

    @Physics Phil said:

    Several of the newbies, as well as long-time lurkers, have complained about the lack of guidelines about posting, but I felt it would be a good idea to keep discussion of guidelines to a separate thread from the discussion of existing moderation. Putting this thread here in General Discussion seemed like a more appropriate location as the rules are not meant to be a WTF. I feel the guidelines for posting should be in 2 parts, covering the forum software and the etiquette.
    If this is felt to be a good idea, then a sticky thread can be created with the results of the discussion.

    Forum Software

    This forum uses community Server, which has some strange quirks, so to minimise our pain and yours, some basic instructions are below

    1. There are many flaws with the standard and enhanced editors, which require Javascript to run. If you prefer to use the plain text editor, this can be set in your profile.
      1. In some browsers, particularly IE, newlines are not properly converted to HTML. You should therefore check the preview tab on the post page and edit the HTML manually if necessary before posting
      2. In Firefox, the comment field is not spellchecked by default. To turn it on, right-click in the field and select "Spell check this field"
      We know most of the flaws of the editor, so unless you find a security hole or something really major, we don't need to be told again.
    2. the edit time-out is very short, so use the preview function and think before you post.
    3. In the editor, if you click on the quote button without any text selected, the entire post is quoted. If part of the text is selected, the selected text is quoted.

    Posting Etiquette

    1. Do not quote the entire OP.
    2. If you are replying to anyone else, please quote the relevant excerpt from the post to provide context.
    3. Each reply should be to one post only (so that the comments appear in the correct place in the threaded view)
    4. We know that you can post arbitrary HTML. Please don't abuse this, it isn't funny any more
    5. If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please PM them, or take the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia
    6. Not all of the forum users are native speakers of English. Please be polite to them.
    7. Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such
    8. Conversely, please do not post an incoherent mess. If we can't understand it, at best you will be ignored

    Please remember that these are guidelines, not rules: even if this doesn't say you cannot do something it doesn't mean you won't get banned for it. In short, don't be a jerk.

    Does anyone think anything should be added?
    Does anyone think this is redundant?

    Please keep this discussion civil, and try to stay on topic. This thread is simply meant to come up with useful information for newbies, not to argue about past events. The idea is that if we have such a guidelines thread, people can point newbies to it and if they disagree with what they read they can discuss the matter there, leaving the rest of our threads unpolluted.

    As for the forum software, deal with it. Either get your ass to Cleveland and become Alex's personal assistant and redo the site or deal with it. Given the subject matter on TDWTF, its expected for the readers to either have some IT background or be in the middle of learning it.

    You're never going to be able to enforce politeness.

    TDWTF has a history and a lot of its own meme's (thus quoting the entire OP), its amusing. Again deal with it. God forbid the modern internet generation have to read and filter information for themselves.

    Almost forgot. I use Opera so you're going to have to deal with my line breaks.

    I'll wait until the thread gets back on track then derail it again by posting in my medicore German.

    Oh I almost forgot. Wrap everything I say in sarcasm tags. Or ~'s whatever the fuck it is we're supposed to use to indicate sarcasm.



  • Fully agreed with the rules. If the quote thing is now official consensus, I'm fine with it.

    Maybe you could add what morbiuswilters said about rss and emails here. At least it made the quoting more understandeable for me.



  •  notes added:

     

     1.  Perhaps we could pursued Alex to increase the timeout of the edit button.  I'm assuming it's a pretty easily configured variable.

     

    • Do not quote the entire original post (OP).

    I think this only applies to posts that are very long.  If it's less than 10 or so lines then it doesn't matter. 

     

    • If you are replying to anyone else, please quote the relevant excerpt from the post to provide context.

    I really don't see the point in this if it's obvious who you are replying to, especially if it's the last post in the thread.  This, it seems to me, adds more scrolling than quoting the entire OP.

     

    • Each reply should be to one post only (so that the comments appear in the correct place in the threaded view)

    This also implies that you should hit "reply to" on the correct post, not just to the last post like I sometimes do ;)

     

    • If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please send
      them a private message (PM), or take the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia

    I think this rule kind of violates the idea of a "forum."  I'd rather not encourage people to move arguments elsewhere, I'd rather encourage people to keep arguments civilized and not to argue over stupid shit like quoting the OP, or spelling mistakes.

     

    • Not all of the forum users are native speakers of English. Please be polite to them.

    However, I think it should be stressed that everyone should try to post coherent sentences with good spelling.  I bother to look a word up if I don't know how to spell it, and I expect others to have good spelling too.  This includes sentences like, "I like u 2 man, i tlak lik im chating"

     

    • Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such

    No.

     

    • Conversely, please do not post an incoherent mess. If we can't understand it, at best you will be ignored

    I guess this goes with the one 2 above it.   I would just like it to include very bad spelling and obviously lazing grammar.

     

    • Do not needlessly resurrect old threads. If the last reply in a
      thread is more than 1 week old, please consider the discussion as
      "mostly dead", and anything beyond 2 weeks as completely dead.

    I would say this doesn't apply if you have a new idea, or something of considerable value to add to the thread.  Obviously you should think twice before resurrection though.



    @Physics Phil said:

    • Do not spam the forums with 'me too!' type posts. This is not

    QFI (Quoted for Irony) 



  • @tster said:

    • If you are replying to anyone else, please quote the relevant excerpt from the post to provide context.

    I really don't see the point in this if it's obvious who you are replying to, especially if it's the last post in the thread.  This, it seems to me, adds more scrolling than quoting the entire OP.

     

     Maybe, but as stated earlier, if a thread splinters into multiple topics (as threads often tend to do), replies can get confusing unless a poster quotes just exactly what he/she's replying to.



  • @Girtych said:


    Maybe, but as stated earlier, if a thread splinters into multiple topics (as threads often tend to do), replies can get confusing unless a poster quotes just exactly what he/she's replying to.
     

    If that's the case, then yes, of course you quote. However, I think we can use common sense to decide when it's sensible to quote and when not.

    For example, I'd consider quotes like the one I just made in this post bad. In this case, the context is clear and the post gives no new information, instead just clutters up the thread.



  • @tster said:

    • Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such

    No.

     

    Yes.  Again, remember that these are only guidelines, not rules.  If you feel that your sarcasm will be worsened by using a sarcasm tag, then there is no one forcing you to do so.  Just recognize that if someone mistakes your post for serious, then the thread is likely to degrade to a flamewar.

    My experience has been (in this forum, other forums, and IM chats) that many people just can not tell the difference, and the guidance of the </sarcasm> tag will make the joke clear -- therefore funny. 



  • @Physics Phil said:

    ...even if this doesn't say you cannot do something it doesn't mean you won't get banned for it
     

    So, don't do what Johnny-Don't-Do does?   



  • Another update to handle the newer comments, particularly tster's.

    Forum Software

    This forum uses community Server, which has some strange quirks, so to minimise our pain and yours, some basic instructions are below

    1. There are many flaws with the standard and enhanced editors, which require Javascript to run. If you prefer to use the plain text editor, this can be set in your profile.
      1. In some browsers, particularly IE and Opera, newlines are not properly converted to HTML. You should therefore check the preview tab on the post page and edit the HTML manually if necessary before posting. Opera can also cause other mangling of posts. There is a button in the editor tab to do this.
      2. In Firefox, the comment field is not spellchecked by default. To turn it on, right-click in the field and select "Spell check this field"
      3. The insert/edit link button only works if you have text highlighted. This is a feature, not a bug.
      We know most of the flaws of the editor, so unless you find a security hole or something really major, we don't need to be told again.
    2. the edit time-out is very short, so use the preview function and think before you post.
    3. In the editor, if you click on the quote button without any text selected, the entire post is quoted. If part of the text is selected, the selected text is quoted.
    4. Most instances of people's usernames are links to their profile. From here you can send them a private message, as well as see some of their public information

    Posting Etiquette

    Please do not try to enforce those guidelines when others violate them. Discussions about which guideline was violated or not and why are inherently off-topic.

    This is the Golden Rule. The items below are guidelines, not rules: even if this doesn't say you cannot do something it doesn't mean you won't get banned for it. In short, don't be a jerk.

    1. Do not unnecessarily quote the entire original post (OP).
    2. If you are replying to anyone else, please quote enough to provide context. Some people follow the forums via email updates, and without the context provided by a quote, it can be hard to follow the conversation
    3. Each reply should be to one post only, and you should use the reply-to link on the relevant post (so that the comments appear in the correct place in the threaded view)
    4. We know that you can post arbitrary HTML. Please don't abuse this, it isn't funny any more
    5. If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please consider sending them a private message (PM), or taking the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia.
    6. Not all of the forum users are native speakers of English. Please be polite to them. Conversely, please do not post an incoherent mess. If we can't understand it, at best you will be ignored. Text speak and 1337 are especially annoying when overused.
    7. Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. If your post is likely to be misconstrued as flamebait, it is a good idea to make your intent clear by means of the tags field
    8. Do not needlessly resurrect old threads. If the last reply in a thread is more than 1 week old, please consider the discussion as "mostly dead", and anything beyond 2 weeks as completely dead. If you have a new idea, or something of considerable value to add to the thread, by all means do so, but please think before you post.
    9. Do not spam the forums with 'me too!' type posts. This is not AOL.

    I cannot claim credit for the "this is not AOL" comment, that is entirely MarcB's wit.

    Feel free to edit points if you think there is a better way to write them, since coherent explanation isn't always my strong point.



  • @Rotary Jihad said:

    As for the forum software, deal with it. Either get your ass to Cleveland and become Alex's personal assistant and redo the site or deal with it.

    I'm not complaining, this is just meant as a warning for new users so that they don't end up with their first few posts mangled

    @Rotary Jihad said:

    You're never going to be able to enforce politeness.

    I'm not trying to enforce politeness, instead I'm just trying to determine a consensus about what is considered correct behaviour, thus keeping these interminable debates over quoting styles and the like out of our other threads.

    @Rotary Jihad said:

    Almost forgot. I use Opera so you're going to have to deal with my line breaks.

    In this case it wasn't too bas, but when someone posts a big wall of text, it is harder to read, and needlessly so. Knowing that this is going to happen, they can make have the courtesy to prevent it.



  • @tster said:

     1.  Perhaps we could pursued Alex to increase the timeout of the edit button.  I'm assuming it's a pretty easily configured variable.

    I would prefer not.  I don't use the edit feature personally and would like it removed.  I think people should take more care and proofread before posting.  If you can catch the error after you post, you could have caught it before you did.   If you huffed paint thinner just before posting and completely screwed the pooch, you can always post a retraction.  I'm not a big fan of revisionist history, either.  However, I do think this needs to be made clear for new users who may not be aware of the posting timeout.

     

    @tster said:

    I think this only applies to posts that are very long.  If it's less than 10 or so lines then it doesn't matter. 

    Quoting should be used to give context.  If your OP quote does not give context, it should not be done.  I don't think anyone is arguing that the OP should never be quoted, just that quoting the whole thing is silly, regardless of an arbitrary "acceptable" amount of lines.  Hell, you can quote the whole OP if you need to respond point-by-point and it is the best way to establish context.  I understand not everyone is an English major here (let alone a native English speaker) but there are some fairly basic guidelines of style that improve readability.  I think people would complain if my post was in a very tiny font, too.  It's all about taking care when replying and thinking about others.

     

    @tster said:

    I really don't see the point in this if it's obvious who you are replying to, especially if it's the last post in the thread.  This, it seems to me, adds more scrolling than quoting the entire OP.

    It establishes context, as I said above.  You may think your post will appear directly below the one you are replying to, but there is no way to be sure.  Once again, there is no need to quote the entire post you are replying to, just enough to establish context and allow us to switch gears.  It's not about the amount of scrolling, it's about the signal-to-noise ratio.  I know that term gets bandied about a lot on tech forums, but it's an important part of writing no matter where you are.  Remember, as a writer people are doing you a favor by reading your post.  It is your responsibility to make your audience comfortable and to assist in their understanding.

     

    @tster said:

    This also implies that you should hit "reply to" on the correct post, not just to the last post like I sometimes do ;)

    This is the proper way to reply to someone.  Anything less disrupts the context.  You may think this is pedantic whining, but my real goal here is to increase the quality of the replies.  Nobody is going to go over your post with a fine-tooth comb and point out spelling or grammar mistakes, but I would hope technically-inclined people would understand the importance of being direct and clear when communicating.


    @tster said:

    I think this rule kind of violates the idea of a "forum."  I'd rather not encourage people to move arguments elsewhere, I'd rather encourage people to keep arguments civilized and not to argue over stupid shit like quoting the OP, or spelling mistakes.

    We're trying to eliminate these off-topic flamefests altogether.  That means if someone does break protocol, we don't all jump down their throat.  As history has shown us, this only leads to escalation and flamefests that help no one.  I have already agreed to stop trying to "enforce" the etiquette rules.  I think if you already have a legitimate post and you want to add a polite "by the way, we do appreciate it if.." at the end of your post that seems to be acceptable, but posts that only correct etiquette are no longer acceptable.  Also, if you notice a particular user egregiously violating protocol and you don't have something legitimate to say, you can always shoot them a Private Message and politely and kindly inform them of the rules.

     

    @tster said:

    • Some people have non-functioning sarcasm detectors. Please tag sarcastic comments as such

    No.

    (Not to get off-topic, but the way you have chosen to quote the person you are replying to makes it hard for me to quote you.)  I agree that ruining sarcasm is a bad idea.  On the other hand, a good comedian always does his or her best to ensure the audience understands the joke.  I frequently find myself rewording statements so my intent is more clear and direct.  Also, a good comedian should be prepared to have a joke bomb and should be able to handle someone who misses the joke in a light-hearted way.

     

     @tster said:

    • Do not needlessly resurrect old threads. If the last reply in a
      thread is more than 1 week old, please consider the discussion as
      "mostly dead", and anything beyond 2 weeks as completely dead.

    I would say this doesn't apply if you have a new idea, or something of considerable value to add to the thread.  Obviously you should think twice before resurrection though.

    I think one week is the absolute limit.  After that, you are free to start a new thread and post a link to the old thread.  However, you should not be directly replying to any week-old post as the individual who posted it has probably already considered it laid to rest.  If your new content is good enough to post after one week, then it should be good enough to start a new thread with.  Dredging up old arguments or discussions is tiring and counter-productive.  I don't know of many forums that allow posting after a certain deadline, simply because everyone who had something to say has spoken their piece.  If you missed being able to state your opinion, too bad, unless you have something so amazing it would justify a new thread.  A new thread will get a lot more attention and will actually engage people.  Posting in a week-old thread is like missing a debate class and showing up the next week to debate the topic you missed: everyone else has moved on and you are only inconveniencing and annoying others by dredging the old debate back up.



  • @PSWorx said:

    If that's the case, then yes, of course you quote. However, I think we can use common sense to decide when it's sensible to quote and when not.

    Really? Do you even read the forums? I think we, as a group, have more than demonstrated our lack of common sense.



  • @tster said:

    • If you believe someone is calling you out unfairly, please send
      them a private message (PM), or take the matter to the IRC channel: irc://irc.slashnet.org#TDWTFMafia

    I think this rule kind of violates the idea of a "forum."  I'd rather not encourage people to move arguments elsewhere, I'd rather encourage people to keep arguments civilized and not to argue over stupid shit like quoting the OP, or spelling mistakes.

    ammoQ has explained that one of his primary concerns was that the forum was turning from discussion to discussion of the discussion... kind of like this entire thread. Thus, the purpose of #TDWTFMafia is to provide a place for those meta-discussions, should you feel the need to have them, or really, anything else you desire. If you want to talk to fellow TDWTFers in real time, but seek the same civility you want here, perhaps #TDWTF is more to your liking.



  • @Physics Phil said:

    [guidelines v0.3]
     

    I think the guidelines are becoming a bit wordy. 



  • Another CS bug users should know about, IMO: when using WYSIWYG editor, it is possible to trick CS into writing the <font face="Courier">IMG</font> element with <font face="Courier">width</font> and <font face="Courier">height</font> attributes set to 0 (note that as I don't use the WYSIWYG editor, I don't know how exactly to do it, but I suspect it happens if you sumbit exactly after you insert the image). In this case, IE won't display the image. So if you see a dot where an image should be, look in the page source.

    About code snippets: I find that there is no perfect way to insert them, in raw mode at least. The most reliable way appears to be <pre>[ code ][i]code here[/i][ /code ]</pre>, but be aware that the [ code ] BBcode interprets the C escape sequences (\n, \t, etc.). You can also use the <font face="Courier">PRE</font> element alone, but you'll need to escape <font face="Courier"><</font> as <font face="Courier">&lt;</font>. [ code ] by itself is worthless, as it eats the newlines.

    Oh, and if you advertise #TDWTFMafia, be sure to advertise #TDWTF as well. 8=]



  • @Spectre said:

    when using WYSIWYG editor, it is possible to trick CS into writing the <font face="Courier">IMG</font> element with <font face="Courier">width</font> and <font face="Courier">height</font> attributes set to 0 (note that as I don't use the WYSIWYG editor, I don't know how exactly to do it,
    When you have the insert image dialog open, once you tab off of the image URL, it loads that image to pull in the height and width attributes. If you hit okay without letting it do this, it'll screw you over. At least, that's how I understand it to work (not work?).
    @Spectre said:
    Oh, and if you advertise #TDWTFMafia, be sure to advertise #TDWTF as well. 8=]
    I mentioned you guys above.



  • @Spectre said:

    be sure to advertise #TDWTF as well. 8=]
     

    Why? Do people really need another IRC channel to idle on?



  • @bstorer said:

    When you have the insert image dialog open, once you tab off of the image URL, it loads that image to pull in the height and width attributes. If you hit okay without letting it do this, it'll screw you over. At least, that's how I understand it to work (not work?).
     

    I always grab the picture and stretch it back and forth real quick, never had a problem and it is quick to do.



  • I've never had any sort of trouble adding images.

    Here:

    Paste URL, click Insert. that's it.

    Image courtesy of moi.

     (I also justy edited this post, to see if it screws anything up. It seems not to.)



  • @dhromed said:

    I've never had any sort of trouble adding images.
     

    You must be some kind of wizard or something!!!



  • puts on robe & wizard hat 



  • @dhromed said:

    puts on robe & wizard hat 

     

    Lights torch



  • @Physics Phil said:

    In short, don't be a jerk.
     

    I think this is all you need ... 



  • @Nelle said:

    @Physics Phil said:

    In short, don't be a jerk.
     

    I think this is all you need ... 

    The only trouble with that is that it assumes all people have an equal definition of what being a jerk is, and are willing and able to reign in their behaviour.


    In general such consensus only works in collectives of a handful of people. Once you exceed some critical number of people such expectations tend to fall down.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @dhromed said:

    puts on robe & wizard hat 

     

    Lights torch

     

    YOU

    SHALL

    NOT

    PASS 

    ZOWNT CRACOOM



  •  It seems the question of improving the forums was passed to my subconscious because today, completely out of the blue I came up with an idea. I don't know if anyone's suggested this already but how about a configurable filter that blocks posts that have more than x number of quotes? And since I doubt anyone will be arsed to implement something like this in the forum software I wonder if you could built it client-side. Greasemonkey perhaps?

     




  • @DOA said:

     It seems the question of improving the forums was passed to my subconscious because today, completely out of the blue I came up with an idea. I don't know if anyone's suggested this already but how about a configurable filter that blocks posts that have more than x number of quotes? And since I doubt anyone will be arsed to implement something like this in the forum software I wonder if you could built it client-side. Greasemonkey perhaps?

     


     

    why would we want to block only the posts that have a significant number of responses?



  • @tster said:

    why would we want to block only the posts that have a significant number of responses?
    Quotes, not responses. As in writing a dissertation to argue with someone's post sentence by sentence. Which is what happens in almost every flame war.



  • @DOA said:

    @tster said:

    why would we want to block only the posts that have a significant number of responses?
    Quotes, not responses. As in writing a dissertation to argue with someone's post sentence by sentence. Which is what happens in almost every flame war.

     

    That is ridiculous. That assumes that every argument or discussion on the forum is a flamewar.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    That is ridiculous. That assumes that every argument or discussion on the forum is a flamewar.
    Only the ones containing more than x amount of quotes in a single post. We could even restrict it so the quotes have to be from the same person. This way you don't miss out on posts that answer to several people at once.

    Needless to say x is up to the reader to decide. And so is whether he'd use the filter at all. 



  • @DOA said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    That is ridiculous. That assumes that every argument or discussion on the forum is a flamewar.
    Only the ones containing more than x amount of quotes in a single post. We could even restrict it so the quotes have to be from the same person. This way you don't miss out on posts that answer to several people at once.

    Needless to say x is up to the reader to decide. And so is whether he'd use the filter at all. 

    This has to be one of the weakest ideas I've heard so far.  You basically want to filter out everything that is the least bit difficult or accurate and only have the fluff delivered to you.  Seriously, why are you here if you don't want to discuss and argue with people? 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    This has to be one of the weakest ideas I've heard so far. 
     

    Yeah really, I am sure no one here would be smart enough to change their quoting habits to evade the filter or anything.



  •  @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Yeah really, I am sure no one here would be smart enough to change their quoting habits to evade the filter or anything.
    I don't see what the problem is. This was suggested as a view filter and in no way obstructs posting. Anyone who enjoys these posts is welcome to have it disabled and read/argue to his heart's content. Those who are not interested can skip them. Just like now with the difference that we wont have to use the scrollbar as much.

    The only reason to try to circumvent the filter would be purely to be a twat and shove crap down people's throats. Kinda like a spammer.



  • @DOA said:

    don't see what the problem is. This was suggested as a view filter and in no way obstructs posting. Anyone who enjoys these posts is welcome to have it disabled and read/argue to his heart's content. Those who are not interested can skip them. Just like now with the difference that we wont have to use the scrollbar as much.

    So you still haven't answered my question: why are you here?  You don't seem interested in anything other than useless fluff comments. 



  • @DOA said:

    I don't see what the problem is.
     

    Let me explain it then:

    If you 'filter' out some people's arguments to other people, you will end up with those people making very confusing posts because they did not have the context of the argument everyone else did. That kind of already happens now, but that is usually due to someone not being able to read, or just ignoring other people's points. It is already damned annoying. We don't need to give these people another excuse. Also, I have seen many very valid arguments where this style of quoting was used.

    There is no magical software solution, nor should there be. CS cannot shield your eyes from every argument that happens in the forum. Arguments can be a good thing, and area valid use of a forum. The ones that go too far? You don't have to read them or reply to them. 

    If you don't like a thread, argument or a post, don't read it.  It is so very simple.

    There was already a thread for this. It was shot all full of holes. And really, your idea is much worse. 

    @DOA said:

    The only reason to try to circumvent the filter would be purely to be a twat and shove crap down people's throats. Kinda like a spammer.

    This comment is quite ridiculous on it's accord, but really, we don't need this kind of talk in this thread. You were asked to keep the thread civil. Please assist us in this.



  • Hmm.. MPS and mobiuswilters don't like the idea. Who knew...



  • @DOA said:

    Hmm.. MPS and mobiuswilters don't like the idea. Who knew...

    Yes, apparently I like fact and discussion more than I like ignorant bullshit.  I know you'd rather have a forum where nobody disagrees with your comfortable little world-view, but that is not what this place is for.  Ignoring a post because it provides correction to another post is perhaps the most narrow-minded thing you can do.  Go ahead, though, it's not like you can decrease the intelligence of your posts any more.



  • @DOA said:

    I don't see what the problem is. This was suggested as a view filter and in no way obstructs posting. Anyone who enjoys these posts is welcome to have it disabled and read/argue to his heart's content. Those who are not interested can skip them. Just like now with the difference that we wont have to use the scrollbar as much.
     

    The problem is very simple:  Imagine attending a debate match, being a participant, and configuring your ipod to drown out speakers based on some personal bias against the argument they were about to make.   How useless would your contributions be?  How much would you annoy everyone else for wasting their time?

    Ideas that result in participants not seeing the same information results in fragmentation of the discussion, period.  No way around it, and its annoying as hell.

    Why don't you just make a script that drops a flamey icon next to a post if your algs predict possible flamage in it?  Then you can have a visual clue but still read it.


    Honestly though, what ever happened to using the filter in the brain?  Its so good at skimming over stuff and picking out spots that have relevance.  Its also an important life skill - if you intend to read any API documentation, any newspapers, trade journals - anything you have to mine information out of.  Why would anyone want to limit the amount of practice they get at this critically important skill? 
    If its not on 100% automatic and strain free, you need the practice to make it on this planet.

    Seriously, after digging out relevant data in a massive set of api docs, this site should be like candy to skim through.  If its not, use it to improve your skills in this area - you won't regret it.



  • @BeenThere said:

    Why don't you just make a script that drops a flamey icon next to a post if your algs predict possible flamage in it?  Then you can have a visual clue but still read it.
    Hmm.. visual warning instead of completely omitting the post. Fair enough.

    @BeenThere said:

    Seriously, after digging out relevant data in a massive set of api docs, this site should be like candy to skim through.
    It is. This filter idea isn't actually something I'll personally sit down and write (flamewars don't annoy me that much). Think of it as an intellectual exercise. And everyone's welcome to contribute both to the logic and the technologies that you'd use.

     



  • @DOA said:

    It is. This filter idea isn't actually something I'll personally sit down and write (flamewars don't annoy me that much). Think of it as an intellectual exercise. And everyone's welcome to contribute both to the logic and the technologies that you'd use.
     

    Once again... there is a thread devoted to this discussion. Why don't you go there instead of derailing this one?

    Just in case you had problems finding it: http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/8834.aspx



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Once again... there is a thread devoted to this discussion. Why don't you go there instead of derailing this one?

    Just in case you had problems finding it: http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/8834.aspx

     

    Technically that thread hasn't been posted in for a week, and rezing something dead results in the punishment of crucifixion if I recall.  (I don't know if that counts as irony)  I am sure we can let that pass though in this case.


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