It's Comcastic!
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So I'm surfing the Web, minding my own business, with the TV on for background noise. Suddenly, the cable box outputs a solid gray screen. I flip the channel up and down, no change. Switch to the analog tuner, nothing. Sure enough, my AIM connection is down and, after walking over to the cable modem, it's fresh out of happy, blinking lights.
Sigh. Comcast. Out comes the CDMA phone and a USB tether to contact customer support (I hate waiting on hold and then talking to CSRs). With apologies to "Kathleen," what follows is a transcript of my live "help" session (emphasis added):
ASIDE: I can appreciate that her job is to chat online while following a script, using a program easily eclipsed by the 1999 version of AOL Instant Messenger, but do the scripted responses really need to be so blatantly patronizing?
LiveAssist Transcript
chat id : ed8deec9-81cf-442b-bcea-ed24a88f28a8
Problem : Cable (TV + Internet) outage
William > Cable (TV + Internet) outage
Kathleen > Hello William_, Thank you for contacting Comcast Live Chat Support. My name is Kathleen. Please give me one moment to review your information.
Kathleen > I can appreciate why this cable and internet issue is of great concern to you. I certainly would want it resolved myself.Kathleen > William, may I ask what do you see on your TV screen, are you getting any message?
William_ > Cable box outputs a grey screen. Analog channels via TV tuner aren't there either. Internet service was lost simultaneously.
William_ > No message.
Kathleen > I know we can find a solution to your concern today.
Kathleen > For identification, could you please verify the last four digits of the Social Security Number listed on the account?
William_ > xxxx
Kathleen > I appreciate that information.
Kathleen > I am going to send a signal to your cable box, please turn on your cable box and your TV so we can check if there has any improvement.
Kathleen > Can you please provide your cable box serial number? You may find it on or underneath your cable box.
William_ > How are you going to send a signal to a device that's not receiving any signals? Three independent devices stopped receiving a signal at the same time.
Kathleen > I understand how frustrating this can be.ASIDE: Which part? The service interruption, or that said interruption will render your signal-sending attempts completely useless?
Kathleen > Regarding this issue I will set up a trouble call with one of our trained professional technician to diagnose exactly what the issue is and correct it.
ASIDE: At this point, I'm thinking, "Great! I can talk to someone with technical knowlege."William_ > So I need to make my phone available (vs. using it as my means of communicating with you right now)?
Kathleen > I am sorry for the confusion. I am going to schedule a technician to come out to check your cable box and service.
William_ > I don't need a service call. Someone needs to check the cable network in my area.
William_ > This is a general outage. It started about 25 minutes ago.
Kathleen > William, I checked the account and there is no record of outage in the area.ASIDE: This is the point where I start drilling into my temple with a now useless length of coax.
Kathleen > I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you.
Kathleen > I will take note of it on the account to provide you credit regarding this inconvenience.
Kathleen > I have finished placing a note on your account to provide you credit.
Kathleen > Again, I am sincerely sorry for the inconvenience this has cause you.
William_ > Thank you. I hope your records will soon show the outage. The only alternative is someone physically changing my cable connection at 12:30 in the morning -- while possible, I think less likely.
William_ > Have a good evening.
Kathleen > Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention.
Kathleen > Do you have any other questions for me today?
William_ > No.
Kathleen > It certainly has been my pleasure assisting you today.The rest of the transcript is all boilerplate, scripted tripe.
I bet you do; there's nothing quite like getting paid for reaming your customers. But, to be fair, it is a Comcastic reaming!Kathleen > Thank you for contacting Comcast! We appreciate your business!
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I think we need to start using "comcast" as a verb. We can define it as "being screwed vigorously in the ass by someone while simultaneously being charged for their inconvenience".
"Oh man, that pizza place loves to comcast me. They got my order completely wrong 3 out of the last 4 times I've ordered!"
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Is it me or are the patronizing responses even more annoying than the cable problem?
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@TehFreek said:
I think we need to start using "comcast" as a verb. We can define it as "being screwed vigorously in the ass by someone while simultaneously being charged for their inconvenience".
"Oh man, that pizza place loves to comcast me. They got my order completely wrong 3 out of the last 4 times I've ordered!"
I better hope for you that those pizza's screwed you in the ass after you opened them, otherwise your example wouldn't fit your own definition.
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The only thing worse than clueless customers are clueless customers who think that they know everything.
99.9% of customers don't know anything about the thing that they need help with, so the helpdesk has no reason to believe that you are some kind of an expert who knows exactly where the problem lies.
Just let the helpdesk do their job and don't waste their time.
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Sounds pretty much like an ELIZA clone.
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I'm confused, how did you know it was a general outage for your area? It could have just as easily been a chipmunk that had chewed through your cable line.
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@Yaos said:
I'm confused, how did you know it was a general outage for your area? It could have just as easily been a chipmunk that had chewed through your cable line.
That's my question. It seems unlikely that the OP could have asked his neighbors whether their cable was working at 12:30 am, and even if he did ask, that information wasn't in the OP.
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@belgariontheking said:
@Yaos said:
Clearly he left out the obvious step of trying to use his neighbor's wireless connection. That's step #1 in fault resolution for network outages.I'm confused, how did you know it was a general outage for your area? It could have just as easily been a chipmunk that had chewed through your cable line.
That's my question. It seems unlikely that the OP could have asked his neighbors whether their cable was working at 12:30 am, and even if he did ask, that information wasn't in the OP.
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@bstorer said:
@belgariontheking said:
@Yaos said:
Clearly he left out the obvious step of trying to use his neighbor's wireless connection. That's step #1 in fault resolution for network outages.I'm confused, how did you know it was a general outage for your area? It could have just as easily been a chipmunk that had chewed through your cable line.
That's my question. It seems unlikely that the OP could have asked his neighbors whether their cable was working at 12:30 am, and even if he did ask, that information wasn't in the OP.That unfortunatly doesn't work if your neighbours WLAN has WPA2 encryption with a 14 character key. Unless you have configured those >:-)
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@Yaos said:
I'm confused, how did you know it was a general outage for your area? It could have just as easily been a chipmunk that had chewed through your cable line.
I'm in an apartment; all the cable lines (from the pole) are underground and the line from the distribution box to (only) my apartment isn't really accessible to most wildlife. Considering the possible trouble points of the cable system vs. the relatively miniscule subset that represents my node, it's statistically improbable that the elusive Houston chipmunk chose my one meter of exposed cable to chew (while inside the box)... but I'll give it to you, it was possible. However, I was pretty sure that the outage affected more than one customer -- hence, the "general outage" statement, hoping to get the CSR to realize that resetting my box wasn't going to fix anything.
@bstorer said:
Clearly he left out the obvious step of trying to use his neighbor's wireless connection. That's step #1 in fault resolution for network outages.
I don't trust my neighbors' networks. My wired boxes run Linux, but my laptop is a tablet running XP; its patches are up to date, but why push my luck?
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@wrprice said:
Random babbling
You made absolutely no sense in that post. Did you even read what you were replying to?
Also, you were an asshole to the support line. I hope you never get your service back.
Learn how to treat people.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Also, you were an asshole . . . Learn how to treat people.
Look in a mirror, much?
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Have you actually read the transcript you posted?
Sure did. Including the parts where:
- I answer every part of the CSR's initial questions.
- I indicate conditions at my location that indicate a simultaneous failure of all cable-related devices within my apartment.
- My frustration levels rise because the CSR is proceeding down a resolution path that could not yeild results -- wasting my time and their's -- to the point where I ask a question challenging such logic.
I'm sorry that the question wasn't phrased in a more polite fashion, but at least I didn't resort to name-calling during the first "conversation" with a stranger. I continued:
- Explicitly stating that I did not need (perhaps I should've used the word "want') a service call, because I didn't want to be charged for the technician.
- Stated that I believed it to be a general outage.
- Expressed that I hoped the system would show such an outage (systems can be wrong, too).
- Explicitly said "thank you" rather than immediately terminating the chat.
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@julmu said:
The only thing worse than clueless customers are clueless customers who think that they know everything.
99.9% of customers don't know anything about the thing that they need help with, so the helpdesk has no reason to believe that you are some kind of an expert who knows exactly where the problem lies.
Just let the helpdesk do their job and don't waste their time.And the only thing worse than clueless customers who think they know everything are clueless helpdesk employees who know nothing (but the script in front of them). It's funny really that you're saying not to waste the helpdesk's time. I'd think it's their job not to waste yours.
Usually I don't even bother with the initial jackass I get support from on the first line and just steer the conversation straight towards a promotion towards the second line. The only thing the first line is usually good for is telling you to set everything to automatic and reboot/powercycle your modem.
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@wrprice said:
If this one thread makes me an "asshole" in your eyes, I'm sorry.
I would say the fact that you automatically assume that there is a regional outage and won't let her do her job (no matter how ridiculous it may seem to you) makes you an asshole.
There is no excuse for calling a level 1 helpdesk person and being rude to them. They are just doing their jobs. And complaining she follows her script is stupid as well. That is her job.
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Looks like a standard call to customer service. I fail to see how this is any more WTF worthy than any other such call.
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Well besides the fact that this guy took the time to let the helpdesk clerk know that he looks down upon them even though he is pretty clueless?
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@Spectre said:
Sounds pretty much like an ELIZA clone.
I've got a 'MegaHal' bot which is a bayesian language learning system. Let's see what it says!
> Cable box outputs a grey screen.
"Do you actually want a new job.."
> I don't need a service call. Someone needs to check the cable network in my area.
"Check to see was someone watching me."
> So I need to make my phone available ?
"I just do that if you don't pay, then you have requested and is not available."
Seems about the same - and the bot got trained on an IRC channel full of racing simulator guys.
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@PeriSoft said:
I've got a 'MegaHal' bot which is a bayesian language learning system. Let's see what it says!
Needs moar disc scratch insurance!
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
I would say the fact that you automatically assume that there is a regional outage and won't let her do her job (no matter how ridiculous it may seem to you) makes you an asshole.
Would you, honestly, take apart your entertainment center to get to the tiny serial number sticker on the bottom of the cable box in that situation? Seriously? (This is despite the WTF of having all my account information but not the serial number of their own box?) The cable box isn't sitting on top of the TV waiting to be flipped over, but no one asked how much of a hassle that would be, huh?
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
There is no excuse for calling a level 1 helpdesk person and being rude to them. They are just doing their jobs. And complaining she follows her script is stupid as well. That is her job.
I don't consider trying to derail the script as being rude, particularly when it's clearly unhelpful. I'm not complaining about Kathleen; I'm sure she did exactly what she was trained to do: the script. My complaint (and my opinion of the WTF) is the script itself: where it suggests resetting the cable box in response to an outage. From Kathleen's perspective, her job is to follow the script. From my perspective, Comcast's job is to listen to the customer and understand when a particular script might not be appropriate.
Both sides presumed to know more than they did. I'm at a loss because I don't have access to their information systems. They're at a loss because they're sitting in a call center halfway across the country and don't have my situational awareness. We're both at a loss because the process uses a script that believes it can account for all possible scenarios. I assumed I have more technical knowlege than the CSR (having done broadcast TV engineering). Comcast's policies exclude the possibility that (despite some opinions here) I'm not a complete idiot.
I'm sure, eventually, we would've reached the point in the script where it indicates a non-local equipment or signal issue. Unfortunately, my chat session was intended as a courtesy to inform them of a potential outage. How long would it take to wade through however many levels of script there were to get to that point? I'm sorry CSRs have to put up with such unscripted behavior because their employers have enforced such a system. But Comcast isn't paying ME to use that system, I'm merely left no other choice. A simple person-to-person dialogue without immediately invoking a scripted session would've allowed Kathleen to offer to start a checklist or simply note my service complaint. I could've made the choice and left it at that (saving everyone time); there was no need to go immediately into the reset-the-box script, making me feel like I was talking to a computer instead of a person. THAT was my complaint in this thread and source of additional frustration.
No WTF here? Ah, well, at least you've helped me vent rather than directing it at Kathleen. ;-) Thank you all for that.
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@wrprice said:
Would you, honestly, take apart your entertainment center to get to the tiny serial number sticker on the bottom of the cable box in that situation?
No, if I had that poor of a setup where this was impossible, I would politely reply "I am sorry, but I cannot access that right now, is there something else I could provide?".
@wrprice said:
to an outage
She clearly told you there was no outage in your area. You just assumed there was one.
@wrprice said:
when a particular script might not be appropriate
They did. They sent out a tech which means "This customer is too stupid/rude for our normal support and needs his hand held in person." Congratulations.
@wrprice said:
a script that believes it can account for all possible scenarios.
No, it is a script that helps about 95% of their customers, to keep common folks from clogging up level 2 support with "How do I program my remote?" questions.
@wrprice said:
I assumed I have more technical knowlege than the CSR
No, you just looked down upon her for no apparent reason.
@wrprice said:
(having done broadcast TV engineering)
Based on your technical assessment of the situation, this is TRWTF then.
@wrprice said:
Comcast's policies exclude the possibility that (despite some opinions here) I'm not a complete idiot.
Being that you have no idea how helpdesk's work and that you don't understand what transpired, you should not be surprised people think you are an idiot.
@wrprice said:
I'm sure, eventually, we would've reached the point in the script where it indicates a non-local equipment or signal issue.
Based on what? You had no evidence that it was anything outside your home.
@wrprice said:
Unfortunately, my chat session was intended as a courtesy to inform them of a potential outage.
But that is not what you said, and you didn't allow her to run through the level 1 diagnostics so that she could escalate it to someone who could better assist you. So you just wasted her time.
@wrprice said:
A simple person-to-person dialogue without immediately invoking a scripted session would've allowed Kathleen to offer to start a checklist or simply note my service complaint
Again, it would help if you actually understood how tiered support works. You clearly have no clue.
@wrprice said:
there was no need to go immediately into the reset-the-box script
Funny thing is, when I read your transcript I come to the conclusion I would have done the same to you. You didn't exhibit any understand of the problem or willingness to cooperate. You were just another rude know-it-all customer.
@wrprice said:
No WTF here?
There is a WTF here, but it is not what you think it is.
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@wrprice said:
I don't consider trying to derail the script as being... (etc...)
You have never worked as 1st level helpdesk agent? have you?
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
There is no excuse for calling a level 1 helpdesk person and being rude to them. They are just doing their jobs.
You know who else were just doing their jobs? The Nazis.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Based on what? You had no evidence that it was anything outside your home.
You think, rather, that the simultaneous failure of three otherwise independent devices (cable box, analog tuner in TV, cable modem) on three different cable circuits indicates that the cable box needs a reset signal?
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@wrprice said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Based on what? You had no evidence that it was anything outside your home.
You think, rather, that the simultaneous failure of three otherwise independent devices (cable box, analog tuner in TV, cable modem) on three different cable circuits indicates that the cable box needs a reset signal?
It all comes in on the same cable line. Anything could have happened to that cable line.
Also, her sending a signal to your box offers a lot of diagnostics on their end and they can see if a hub is down, or if there is a cable break, and usually get a very good idea where the break is.
But you just pushed her right around and wouldn't cooperate.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
But you just pushed her right around and wouldn't cooperate.
Did I say 'no' immediately? No. I asked a question. And she could've responded to my question of how sending a signal to a box in this situation would help. Is the customer asking a question considered "push[ing] her right around" and not cooperating? Instead of addressing my question, she went directly to the next card. This would lead to a technician coming out to my residence and a charge on my account because he wouldn't find anything. (The service managed to be restored w/out such a visit, FYI.) That Kathleen was trained to go to the next card isn't the point. I was at the mercy of the script and had to address the "step" I was on.
At that point, yeah, I was resistive as a result of my immediate experience with Comcast's customer service policies. That makes me an asshole? Fine, I acknowlege receiving your opinion.
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@wrprice said:
And she could've responded to my question of how sending a signal to a box in this situation would help.
Perhaps she doesn't know. How would it have hurt you to let her do what she was asking to do?
You were just being a prick pretending you were somehow above her.
@wrprice said:
I was resistive as a result of my immediate experience with Comcast's customer service policies
Right, so you started the conversation with a predetermined opinion that you were going to be unsatisfied and that you would need to be rude.
Well, it came true. Proud?
@wrprice said:
This would lead to a technician coming out to my residence and a charge on my account because he wouldn't find anything.
Right, you told her the problem was on her side. You insisted on it. So she sent into 'stupid/rude customer mode' and sent a technician so that you could prove that it was on their end.
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@wrprice said:
Did I say 'no' immediately? No. I asked a question. And she could've responded to my question of how sending a signal to a box in this situation would help. Is the customer asking a question considered "push[ing] her right around" and not cooperating? Instead of addressing my question, she went directly to the next card. This would lead to a technician coming out to my residence and a charge on my account because he wouldn't find anything. (The service managed to be restored w/out such a visit, FYI.) That Kathleen was trained to go to the next card isn't the point. I was at the mercy of the script and had to address the "step" I was on.
At that point, yeah, I was resistive as a result of my immediate experience with Comcast's customer service policies. That makes me an asshole? Fine, I acknowlege receiving your opinion.
Ever heard of tracert? That's fairly similar to what she was asking to do.
Also your assumption that everyone in the building, let alone the region, were suffering an outage was very presumptuous. You have no idea if it is out. All you know is the one line running to your location is dead.
Bottom line is these people are provided a script to handle most of the usual problems in a polite timely manner. The reason they ask you to power cycle all the time? A polite way to check to see if your power cables are plugged in.
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@DeLos said:
Bottom line is these people are provided a script to handle most of the usual problems in a polite timely manner. The reason they ask you to power cycle all the time? A polite way to check to see if your power cables are plugged in.
I work for the local county and we had Comcast providing Internet access for the library so the library would not be taking up our precious bandwidth. Almost every day the cable modem would have to be power cycled as it would freeze up. Comcast's explanation was that there is no equipment that exists (not just at Comcast, anywhere, and this was not a level 1 saying it) that can handle the load our library provides. I guess the old equipment was just faking it. :(
This story is about Comcast so it's relevant. :stare:
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I'll let this be my last comment.
Upon reflecting on the perspective offered here, I've changed my mind. It was and is never my intention to be a jerk to CSRs. In this case, I percieved that my questions weren't being addressed and that I was "stuck" in the script unable to talk with the human on the other end (except for what the script allowed). While I still find that aspect extremely frustrating, in this case you're right that I wasn't patient enough.
I'm not above admitting that I was wrong; perception trumps intention every time. I don't know if I'll be able to send an apology to Kathleen, but I'll give it an honest shot. Sorry to any CSRs and other WTF'ers out there.
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@wrprice said:
perception trumps intention every time.
Well, took a big man to admit that.
Good to see these discussions go right sometimes.
Sorry to be a dick about it, but I felt it had to be said.
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I've been in your position; no hard feelings.
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I've had them "send a signal" to a modem that was behind a line that had been PHYSICALLY RIPPED TO SHREDS when an AT&T commercial fiber emergency contractor accidentally dug into the CATV/telephone easement trying to find a missing fiber line splice point (the junction box wasn't where it was on the schematic). They said the "self test" said everything was working fine.
Comcast and Verizon already had crews there patching things back up by the time I made the call (I was just calling to demand a credit, but had to go through their hoop-jumping first), and AT&T's guys had located the splice point 200 yards away from where it was supposed to be (and also located the break point - some dickhead decided to augur a fencepost straight into the middle of the easement, and ignore when the augur started bringing up bits of glass, rubber, and plastic)
Once upon a time, I had the number to the local Comcast technician dispatch office (the ones the field techs call when they need to reference shit). They'd actually do serious support on the phone if you convinced them you knew what the hell you were doing.
Unfortunately, that number now forwards to 1-800-COMCAST.
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@wrprice said:
I'm not above admitting that I was wrong
I'm impressed.
I've been in your shoes before (we all have) and I've been in Kathleen's situation as well: first line support sucks. For every user who knows what their problem is there's a hundred who are absolutely convinced they know what the problem is. First time you you waste hours running down a customer's "problem" only to find it's something trivial is the last time you ever deviate from the script. It just makes your life easier to be confident it's not something basic and - and this might be even more important - it covers you if you have to escalate it. Otherwise the first thing you'll have to admit when you try and pass it up the chain is that, no, you haven't tried A B and C. Sucks when you *do* know what the problem is as an end-user, no question.
The best support calls I fielded were the ones where the customer understands you want to help them and are limited. The second best are the ones where the customer takes a moment to calm down and apologise for getting cross with you. Anything else can be turned into a good support call by "loosing" them in the call system and driving them insane with on hold music... ;-)
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@m0ffx said:
@bstorer said:
The Nazis.
You lose.@MasterPlanSoftware said:
See tags
Actually, YOU lose- see bstorer's tags. There's a whole irony pie baked especially for you.
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How to make trollsoup ala TDWTF
1. Take any thread
2. Add MasterPlanSoftware
3. Let it simmer for a few hours
4. Server in your favourite browser
5. Enjoy they flaming goodness.
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@DOA said:
How to make trollsoup ala TDWTF
1. Take any thread
2. Add MasterPlanSoftware
3. Let it simmer for a few hours
4. Server in your favourite browser
5. Enjoy they flaming goodness.
Did you actually read the thread?
How is it trolling? We have actually had a valid disucssion of the OP and left on a good note.
The idiots coming in at the last minute crying 'troll!' are the only trolls in sight.
AmmoQ: Please lock this thread. As you can see, this was going fine until the actual trolls showed up. Let's let this one go on the positive note and not let it continue to devolve.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@DOA said:
Did you actually read the thread?How to make trollsoup ala TDWTF
1. Take any thread
2. Add MasterPlanSoftware
3. Let it simmer for a few hours
4. Server in your favourite browser
5. Enjoy they flaming goodness.
How is it trolling? We have actually had a valid disucssion of the OP and left on a good note.
The idiots coming in at the last minute crying 'troll!' are the only trolls in sight.
Mmmmm... soup....
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@wrprice said:
Kathleen > For identification, could you please verify the last four digits of the Social Security Number listed on the account?
William_ > xxxx
Kathleen > I appreciate that information.Totally a bot.
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@DOA said:
Mmmmm... soup....
Weren't you the troll who derailed the entire "This is what we're expected to learn" thread by making an idiotic, uninformed anti-gun post?
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@bstorer said:
@Benanov said:
Totally a bot.
And how do you feel about totally a bot?You fail! Troll! Off-topic! Not-funny! Soup!
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@morbiuswilters said:
@bstorer said:
@Benanov said:
Totally a bot.
And how do you feel about totally a bot?You fail! Troll! Off-topic! Not-funny! Soup!
Oh, i fail troll offtopic notfunny soup.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Weren't you the troll who derailed the entire "This is what we're expected to learn" thread by making an idiotic, uninformed anti-gun post?
You're right, I forgot to add you to the ingredients... Sorry, that was the diet soup.
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@DOA said:
Is that your new strategy? Somebody calls you on something, and you just go, "You're in the soup!" That sounds like an excellent way to handle criticism, especially valid criticism.@morbiuswilters said:
Weren't you the troll who derailed the entire "This is what we're expected to learn" thread by making an idiotic, uninformed anti-gun post?
You're right, I forgot to add you to the ingredients... Sorry, that was the diet soup.
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@DOA said:
You're right, I forgot to add you to the ingredients... Sorry, that was the diet soup.
Isn't it enough you destroyed that thread, you had to do it to this one too?
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And that concludes my demonstration of the recipe. For more flavour please let it shimmer some more and check back in a few hours.
