Test WTF



  • OK, second thread. This time improved with PNG.

     I'm a CS teacher at some higher-level institution in a spanish-speaking country.

     This is a scan of how a certain student in my class answered question 2.

     

    If you're rusty on your spanish, this is what it says:

     

    2. (10%) For each one of the following features, state whether it corresponds to GIF, JPEG, BOTH or NEITHER:
    a. Is a RASTER image format
    b. Is a VECTOR image format
    c. Uses a palette
    d. Can store various images on the same file
    e. Is more appropriate for photographies
    f. Can represent transparency
    g. Uses compression that discards data in order to minimize final file size
    h. Divides the image in rectangles of 8x8, 8x16 or 16x16

    And this student's answer was H 

     

     

    Mahoro 



  • Adding some ":" at the end of each sentence maybe woul've helped this guy to figure out what he had to do. How many ppl answered like that/not in the intended way? 



  •  All those that didn't read the question and answered randomly.



  • Actually, only this one. (Thank Thor)

    I know, when I took a Human-Machine interfaces course (in a different school), we talked about how interfaces could have "affordance" that invited users to use them in a specific way.

    But this is ridiculous, I'd expect a 4th year CS student to be able to read and comprehend a basic test question.

    I know, TRWTF is that this topic is on a 4th year CS course, but trust me, questions 3 to 8 on this "Multimedia and Computer Graphics" were more focused on the "Computer Graphics" aspect, and dealt more with Z-buffers, Gouraud shading and stuff like that.

     

    Mahoro 



  • It seems like an inability to parse a sentence that is more complex than "The Cat sat on the mat" is not only a problem in English.



  • !FAIL!
    ?



  • To be more charitable to the student, maybe s/he skipped the question, and came back to it with 5 seconds left in the quiz, so s/he took a guess, never having really read it.

    In all seriousness regarding affordances, where are students supposed to write the answer? Was a blank cropped out? It would've been faster as well as easier to understand if you listed "GIF JPEG Ambas Ninguna" after each item for them to circle. Maybe make each line a separate question worth 2.25 points.

    Just for my own education, how to you pronouce "GIF and JPEG" in Spanish? Heef ee hota-payg?

    --RA 



  • @mahoromhr said:

    But this is ridiculous, I'd expect a 4th year CS student to be able to read and comprehend a basic test question.
    I don't think that's a fair expectation.  I know I can't read and comprehend it.



  • @mahoromhr said:

    I'd expect a 4th year CS student to be able to read and comprehend a basic test question.

    I would expect a "CS teacher at some higher-level institution in a spanish-speaking country" to be able to write a more intelligible test.

     



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I would expect a "CS teacher at some higher-level institution in a spanish-speaking country" to be able to write a more intelligible test.

    I'd have to agree with this. Providing alpha list items presents it as a multiple choice question. They should've either been individual questions, or a space should've been provided, such as this:

    c. Usa una paleta: _____________________________________

    or if enough space wasn't available, put the blank on a new line:

    c. Usa una paleta
    Su respuesta: ________________________________________


  • Yeah, there are a lot of ways it could have been better, and I would have done a double-take and read the question a second time, but I had no trouble understanding (the English version).



  • @belgariontheking said:

    I had no trouble understanding (the English version).

    Obviously it shouldn't have been hard for a 4th year student to comprehend. None of the others answered it as a multiple choice.



  • @robbak said:

    It seems like an inability to parse a sentence that is more complex than "The Cat sat on the mat" is not only a problem in English.

    Nice C.S. Lewis reference

     

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I would expect a "CS teacher at some higher-level institution in a spanish-speaking country" to be able to write a more intelligible test.

     

    I don't want anyone who can't understand that question as a co-worker.



  • @campkev said:

    I don't want anyone who can't understand that question as a co-worker.

     

    How do you know the student didn't do it on purpose because he was dismayed with a teacher who would make a test like this?

    I would have.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    How do you know the student didn't do it on purpose because he was dismayed with a teacher who would make a test like this?

    I would have.

     

    I also wouldn't want to work with someone who would get "dismayed" over a simple test question.



  • @campkev said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    How do you know the student didn't do it on purpose because he was dismayed with a teacher who would make a test like this?

    I would have.

    I also wouldn't want to work with someone who would get "dismayed" over a simple test question.

     

    Don't worry. The feeling is mutual.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    How do you know the student didn't do it on purpose because he was dismayed with a teacher who would make a test like this?

    I don't see a problem with the test. He already stated that the other questions were harder.

     

    But what would be the correct answer for g), jpeg or both? That is, does the color palette count as discarding data? 



  • The kid jsut didn't read the question. If he was a native spanish speaker he probably should've been able to. 



  • you mind teling us in what country are you? I'm guessing either Spain or somewhere horribly close to it (I kno for the time use you selected, yeah, I'm h4xx0r)

    It's just curiosity, not that I'm gonna go and say "all devs from there are as noob as the student who answered that question" or something, hell, if we were to group all people from a country with one whathefucker then everyone on this forum should be grouped -as we all have encountered many coworker's wtfs-. 



  • Just for my own education, how to you pronouce "GIF and JPEG" in Spanish? Heef ee hota-payg?

    Almost, it would be pretty much like "geef" and "hota-peg", but it's more common to say JPG, which would be pronouced "hota-peh-heh"

     

    I would expect a "CS teacher at some higher-level institution in a
    spanish-speaking country" to be able to write a more intelligible test.

    Was it really -that- hard to understand the words "for each"?

     

    They should've either been individual questions, or a space should've been provided, such as this:

    I don't do that anymore. It doesn't matter how much room you leave for answers, or how much you threat your students with "YOU HAVE TO ANSWER ON THE TEST SHEET!", they always end up taking a separate piece of paper, and answer in there. I now have to bring a stapler to my tests!

    Because of this, my tests only have the questions, and they're free to answer wherever they feel like doing so...

     

    But what would be the correct answer for g), jpeg or both? That is, does the color palette count as discarding data?

    I'd say JPEG. The LZW algorithm used by GIF is not lossy by itself. If you have less than 256 colors, you're not discarding anything, and when you have more than 256, you're discarding data on the -dithering- process, not on the actual compression process.

     

    you mind teling us in what country are you? I'm guessing either Spain
    or somewhere horribly close to it (I kno for the time use you selected,
    yeah, I'm h4xx0r)
     

    I've read this sentence several times and I still can't figure out what you mean by "(I kno for the time use you selected,
    yeah, I'm h4xx0r)", and what's so h4xx0ry about it... It might be because I'm not a native english speaker T.T. Would you mind rephrasing that for me please?

    And yes, I do mind. I'd rather maintain a small degree of anonymity while I get accustomed with these forums.

     

    In my opinion, this student's answer is a wonderful display of hilarious creativity. Add to that the fact that this student almost never goes to class, but is the first one to stand out to complain about how "tough" the tests are, and how "deep" the level of this course is..

    I wonder why is it that students are the only group I can think of, that complain when they receive more for their money. I wish I had gotten more (or any, to that effect) useful information on my undergraduate days...

     

    Mahoro 



  • @mahoromhr said:

    you mind teling us in what country are you? I'm guessing either Spain
    or somewhere horribly close to it (I kno for the time use you selected,
    yeah, I'm h4xx0r)
     

    I've read this sentence several times and I still can't figure out what you mean by "(I kno for the time use you selected,
    yeah, I'm h4xx0r)", and what's so h4xx0ry about it... It might be because I'm not a native english speaker T.T. Would you mind rephrasing that for me please?

     

    I did have some typoing in there, so lemme cut to the chase:

    Nada mas preguntaba de que país sos, por curiosidad, ¿a quien mierda le importa si un WTF provino de España o Perú o de donde sea?
    Dije que calculo que sos de España porque miré en tu perfil el uso horario y pensé que había visto GMT+3 (aunque ahora veo que es +9, TRWTF es que haya visto mal la hora).. Ahora que lo pienso, GMT+9 es Japón :S:S 



  • @ZippoLag said:

    Adding some ":" at the end of each sentence maybe woul've helped this guy to figure out what he had to do. How many ppl answered like that/not in the intended way? 

    I'd like to think 4th year college students wouldn't need that much hand holding, although I've probably too much faith in humanity.



  • @shadowman said:

    although I've probably too much faith in humanity

    You do. I'm surprised we aren't extinct by now.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    @shadowman said:
    although I've probably too much faith in humanity

    You do. I'm surprised we aren't extinct by now.

     

    I'm surprised my internet connection works.- 



  • @ZippoLag said:

    I did have some typoing in there, so lemme cut to the chase:

    Nada mas preguntaba de que país sos, por curiosidad, ¿a quien mierda le importa si un WTF provino de España o Perú o de donde sea?
    Dije que calculo que sos de España porque miré en tu perfil el uso horario y pensé que había visto GMT+3 (aunque ahora veo que es +9, TRWTF es que haya visto mal la hora).. Ahora que lo pienso, GMT+9 es Japón :S:S 

    Actually, I'd rather maintain a small degree of anonymity for the school I work with, and even though I do mock my students from time to time, I'd like to protect them when I do so internationally. So call me paranoid, but I'd rather not reveal the country where such a student lives... At least not before the end of my contract >-<

    I didn't mean to get you all hyped up if I noticed a mistake in your english. Both you and I have a language different from english as a native language, and therefore we're both kinda allowed to make mistakes, so don't worry. Next time, it's not "time use" as in "huso horario", but "time zone". But I do have to mention my mistake was an honest one as well, as I truly didn't know what you meant at the time.

    My time zone is in Japan time because I was there when I first signed up. I'd better change that... Or I'd better not... :grins:

     

    Mahoro 



  • Both JPEG and GIF store multiple images, look carefully at some jpeg files and you'll see an embedded JPEG-format thumbnail.  You can extract the thumbnail with a hex editor, and open it in any JPEG viewer.

    Macromedia made their own extended JPEG format which has an alpha channel, used in Flash.

    Also, GIF supports a "lossy" mode in some image editors, where it looks for similar strips of pixels, and changes them to a single common strip of pixels so the image compresses better.

    A GIF image can be arbitrarily divided into any size of chunks to compose one image, even 8x8, 8x16, or 16x16 pixel blocks.


    So the real WTF is this question.



  • @Dwedit said:

    Both JPEG and GIF store multiple images, look carefully at some jpeg files and you'll see an embedded JPEG-format thumbnail.  You can extract the thumbnail with a hex editor, and open it in any JPEG viewer.

    Macromedia made their own extended JPEG format which has an alpha channel, used in Flash.

    Also, GIF supports a "lossy" mode in some image editors, where it looks for similar strips of pixels, and changes them to a single common strip of pixels so the image compresses better.

    A GIF image can be arbitrarily divided into any size of chunks to compose one image, even 8x8, 8x16, or 16x16 pixel blocks.


    So the real WTF is this question.

    WINRAR!

     

    TRWTF is a new user with something insightful to say.  Good show! 



  • @mahoromhr said:

    looks above his shoulder

     

    What the.. I'll respect your privacy but, paranoia isn't really healthy, plus why should anyone give a crap of what said in a forum about ITWTFs?

    I've said it many times since I've joined -and that's like 2 weeks-:  I'm from Argentina, thee are A LOT of wtf-ish developers here, and there are also some pretty cool ones too, I download "tons" of illegal shit from the internet and I have the FBI in my front door right now, so I'm gonna wipe out my hds and login in a couple of years when I'm working as an anti-hacker for them.



  • @ZippoLag said:

    blah, blah, blah 

     

    k, I think I lost my own point there, so nevermind..

    ps: could a mod tell me his IP address so I can look him up on http://whatismyipaddress.com



  • @ZippoLag said:

    What the.. I'll respect your privacy but, paranoia isn't really healthy, plus why should anyone give a crap of what said in a forum about ITWTFs?

    Ditto. I go so far as putting my city and state. Someone here has basically figured out my employer -- only because they used worked for the company. However, not even putting your country is absurd. As long as you don't name names, who cares? All we know is that some student circled a question instead of filling it out. We don't know which student. Even if we knew the exact university and class, it still wouldn't help us determine who did that. Did you know that doctors put all sorts of embarrassing stuff into medical journals about their patients? BUT.. since they don't name names, it's highly unlikely the patient will ever be discovered.



  • @ZippoLag said:

    ps: could a mod tell me his IP address

    @ZippoLag said:
    Filed under: I'm gonna getcha

    You're gonna make him break out in sweats if you keep that up. LOL



  • @ZippoLag said:

    I'm from Argentina

    Put that in your location, dammit. I keep forgetting who is in what time zone.



  •  I thought I did, tho now that I see I've left the whole "About" tab empty,I'm out to fill it now, tho I'm not sure if I'll be legit on the info :P

    btw, a quick google search on my nickname and you'll pretty much know anything about me, I guess I'm like our friend spectate in that matter ::S

    edit: bleh, I couldn't come up with anything funny to trhow there.- 



  • @ZippoLag said:

    a quick google search on my nickname and you'll pretty much know anything about me

    My name is the same way. I've been using this name since at least December 1999.



  • @mahoromhr said:

    I don't do that anymore. It doesn't matter how much room you leave for answers, or how much you threat your students with "YOU HAVE TO ANSWER ON THE TEST SHEET!", they always end up taking a separate piece of paper, and answer in there. I now have to bring a stapler to my tests!
    That's really simple to fix: do not count anything that's not answered on the test sheet itself. All exams I've taken were like this - if you didn't follow the instructions on where/how to answer, it was assumed you didn't answer the question.@Dwedit said:
    Also, GIF supports a "lossy" mode in some image editors, where it looks for similar strips of pixels, and changes them to a single common strip of pixels so the image compresses better.
    That doesn't make the compression lossy. You can open, save, close, re-open and resave a GIF image as many times as you wish, and it will not change. If you do the same with JPEG, it will gradually degrade. Just because some image editors let you pre-process the image before saving, that doesn't change the fact that the result of that preprocessing is stored without losses.



  • @Dwedit said:

    Both JPEG and GIF store multiple images, look carefully at some jpeg files and you'll see an embedded JPEG-format thumbnail.  You can extract the thumbnail with a hex editor, and open it in any JPEG viewer.

    Macromedia made their own extended JPEG format which has an alpha channel, used in Flash.

    Also, GIF supports a "lossy" mode in some image editors, where it looks for similar strips of pixels, and changes them to a single common strip of pixels so the image compresses better.

    A GIF image can be arbitrarily divided into any size of chunks to compose one image, even 8x8, 8x16, or 16x16 pixel blocks.


    So the real WTF is this question.

     

     

    No, the real WTF is the set of answers you think I graded correctly.

    Indeed, LZW compression is NOT lossy. There are several things you can do to any image file to intentionally reduce its quality, which in some cases, like the one you mention, may be more suitable for a specific type of compression, but that's a whole different thing from having lossy compression.

    Also, you mention some things like the ones I've put in bold. The fact that there are propietary extensions to some standards, doesn't make them part of the standard (and there are still some big companies who don't seem to get this...).

     

    Now, regarding the anonimity thing, yes, I'm a paranoid freak. I only use the same username on up to two different sites, I change all my passwords twice a week with new secure random-generated passwords (for example, the one on this site is usually 10-12 characters long), and I never use public computers. Also, I change ISPs every six months, and I've changed my name twice. Good thing I have a remarkable memory!

    You should REALLY take my anonimity and network security class for some really cool stuff ^^

    Besides, what difference would it make if you knew where I was from?

     

     

    Mahoro 



  • @mahoromhr said:

    Besides, what difference would it make if you knew where I was from?
     

    Many things, I could take your annonimacy and network security course for an instance. 

    Or I could send you a horde of flying monkeys.

    Just be thankfull I'm too lazy/unskilled to see if I can get your ip from the forum. 



  • @mahoromhr said:

    Also, I change ISPs every six months, and I've changed my name twice.

    O_o ... You're doing something on the side, aren't ya?



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    @mahoromhr said:
    Also, I change ISPs every six months, and I've changed my name twice.

    O_o ... You're doing something on the side, aren't ya?

    No joke.  Suddenly his being from South America makes a good deal of sense.  Don't you think changing ISPs and your name so frequently would attract more attention?

     

    Also, mahoromhr, how much you chargin' for an 8-ball?



  • @mahoromhr said:

    If you're rusty on your spanish, this is what it says:

     

    2. (10%) For each one of the following features, state whether it corresponds to GIF, JPEG, BOTH or NEITHER:
    a. Is a RASTER image format
    b. Is a VECTOR image format
    c. Uses a palette
    d. Can store various images on the same file
    e. Is more appropriate for photographies
    f. Can represent transparency
    g. Uses compression that discards data in order to minimize final file size
    h. Divides the image in rectangles of 8x8, 8x16 or 16x16

    And this student's answer was H 

     

     

    Mahoro 

    d) Both. The ability to store multiple images in one file is the basis of the animated GIF format, and JPEG allows a second image in the form of a thumbnail (there are some pretty strict limits on it, though).

    f) Both. The standard RGB, CMYK, YCbCr, and greyscale colorspaces of JPEG don't support transparency, but nothing in the standard says you can't use a custom colorspace such as RGBA.


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