Apple WTF



  • Four months ago, my windows pc died, so I took the plunge and bought an iMac. Last week, the cd/dvd drive died. Since it's under warranty, I called Apple's support line and asked for it to be fixed. After 35 minutes on hold, some buffoon answers, walks through the usual support script questions and decides the drive is broken. They don't send parts, so they tell me to take it to the local Apple store. But you can only go by appointment (unless you like sitting there hoping for an opening), and they only have appointments in the middle of the workday (there are 4 stores within 20 miles; I tried them all). I make the appointment and note on it that the drive is busted and needs to be replaced per Apple support. Ok, I take the day off and go there. The guy looks at it for 5 minutes and announces it's a bad drive; leave the machine for 10-14 days and we'll get to it.

    10-14 days? Maybe that's ok for 12 year olds accessing my-space, and retired couples sending pix of the grandkids, but I use mine to access work and couldn't leave it. I asked them to just give me the replacement part and I'd install it. No can do. I tell the guy to pretend I don't have a warranty and just SELL me the replacement part. No can do: not user serviceable (I've been building PC's for 25 years). I offered to sign a waiver that if I caused any damage, that Apple wouldn't be responsible, but still got "Sorry, can't help you."

    Let me get this straight: I've got a 4 month old iMac still under warranty, and the only way to get it fixed is to leave it for 10-14 days?

    Determined, I called Apple support again, waited 30 minutes before someone answered, asked for a supervisor, and got put on hold for 20 minutes. I hung up, called back, waited 30 more minutes, finally got transferred to level-2 support, explained the problem, ran through some diagnostics, and the guy announced that he has determined that the drive is bad and needs to be replaced. I told him I couldn't leave the unit for 2 weeks, so he offered to send someone to the house to fix it (why didn't the previous folks know that you could do that?). OK, but after 4 days, nobody has called to schedule an appointment, and of course, the 2nd level tech doesn't return phone calls.

    Is Apply trying to alienate it's customers?

    Has anyone else had this type of experience with Apple?

     



  • Good show, apple!

    I am using PCs for the last 15 years of my professional life. Before, it has been two years of the very first MacIntosh. Always loved it, but was later using the "IBM compatible" type due to customer requirements. Whenever asked about the subject, I told inquirers that Apple computers are better designed, more expensive, but that apple cares more about its customers. PCs and Macs basically had the same functionality, moving between them always requires getting used to the other GUI, but that was about it.

     Now I learn something about that "apple cares more about its customers" part. Good f..ing lord!
    Looks like you can only be happy with apple's products if you are a complete moron...



  • When my wife wanted an iPod she did major research and had the following statement:

    Apple looks pretty, but their support is horrific and everything is overpriced.

    The Creative Zen was cheaper and better just looked different and was not "compatible" with iTunes. (She does not care very much for iTunes). Actually I remember when Itunes had a bug that if you install it it formats your hard drive (fun times).

    Apple is all about SELL SELL SELL and BREAK BREAK BREAK. One thing I noticed about the iMac which turned me off from it is that I cna ONLY get apple parts for it, no custom crap, I asked "What if the dvd rom broke?" They said "Send it in for repairs" and thats the end of my apple desires.



  • I knew before I bought that Apple's service left something to be desired, but it never occurred to me to ask if they sell replacement parts...

    I've always bought from Gateway or Dell, and while both companies (IMHO) suck, at least if there's a warranty problem, they put a stamp on a part and overnight it to you, along with a voucher to mail the old part back. I figured Apple was "better" - I am calling their corporate offices when they open today - I'll post what happens.



  • I got an Apple iBook G3 Dual USB (I think some time in 2003). After a few months of use the motherboard died, so I had to take it in to the Apple Store, they took approximately 3 weeks to fix it and then we collected it from the store. Later, I was carrying it when I jumped over a box onto a wet floor, and not unsurprisingly it broke again - motherboard once more. Another 3 weeks to fix (didn't report the drop, no visible damage, repair under warranty). Then, it got hit by a football, motherboard broke again, this time 4 weeks to fix it but again under warranty. Then it ran strong until just before the end of the warranty when it wouldn't pick up the Airport card properly. I was at this time working tech support at another company, so I called them up and gave it my all, I managed to get a 2 week turnaround for the replacement of:

    • Motherboard
    • Screen
    • Keyboard
    • Touchpad
    • Airport Antenna
    • Airport Card
    With pickup from home and delivery back home. All completed a matter of weeks before the 3 year warranty ended. It would seem Apple's service is entirely random (and a lot better than the service of the company I was working for).



  • Just got off the phone with Apple - their service providers will only make appointments Mon-Fri 9AM-4PM. When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"

    W-T-F!?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @snoofle said:

    When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"
     

    Can't you get them to visit your workplace?

    Or is this going to turn into a new area of WTFery? 



  • @snoofle said:

    Just got off the phone with Apple - their service providers will only make appointments Mon-Fri 9AM-4PM. When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"

    W-T-F!?

     

    Yea... I asked apple what to do if my hardware broke after warrenty... they said "we sell junk parts if you want to try installing them yourself, but if you open your comp you void your warrently automatically, so don't do it during warrenty time."

    I spent a good hr with apple sales before deciding that I don't have 2 thousand bucks to throw away.



  • @snoofle said:

    Just got off the phone with Apple - their service providers will only make appointments Mon-Fri 9AM-4PM. When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"

    W-T-F!?

     

    Would you like your Mac repaired?

    Cancel or Allow?



  • @PJH said:

    @snoofle said:

    When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"
     

    Can't you get them to visit your workplace?

    Or is this going to turn into a new area of WTFery? 

    I use the computer to access work from home. During the day, I'm at the office. They won't come at night or on the weekend. I appear to be the proud owner of a $2,000.00 doorstop. Their corporate office opens at 8AM PST. I'll be calling them then. I'll post what happens.

     



  • @snoofle said:

    @PJH said:

    @snoofle said:

    When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"
     

    Can't you get them to visit your workplace?

    Or is this going to turn into a new area of WTFery? 

    I use the computer to access work from home. During the day, I'm at the office. They won't come at night or on the weekend. I appear to be the proud owner of a $2,000.00 doorstop. Their corporate office opens at 8AM PST. I'll be calling them then. I'll post what happens.

     

     

    Not that it would make you feel any better, but in New York near central park there is a 24hr apple store which will gladly turn your doorstop into a pretty door stop. :(

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

     

    Edit: Call them and tell them that you are demanding that the part is sent to you or you will sue them. OR you will gladly follow any procedures they have as long as they compensate you for ALL money lost during the repair period, or for taking time off from work, etc... It will cost them more to defend and negative publicity then to fix ur damn comp up :P



  • @dlikhten said:

    @snoofle said:

    @PJH said:

    @snoofle said:

    When queried what they do when their customers have jobs during the day, their response: "This is what we do - would you like to cancel the repair or take it into the Apple store?"
     

    Can't you get them to visit your workplace?

    Or is this going to turn into a new area of WTFery? 

    I use the computer to access work from home. During the day, I'm at the office. They won't come at night or on the weekend. I appear to be the proud owner of a $2,000.00 doorstop. Their corporate office opens at 8AM PST. I'll be calling them then. I'll post what happens.

     

     

    Not that it would make you feel any better, but in New York near central park there is a 24hr apple store which will gladly turn your doorstop into a pretty door stop. :(

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

     

    Edit: Call them and tell them that you are demanding that the part is sent to you or you will sue them. OR you will gladly follow any procedures they have as long as they compensate you for ALL money lost during the repair period, or for taking time off from work, etc... It will cost them more to defend and negative publicity then to fix ur damn comp up :P

    Apple would have to be pretty stupid to think that ANYONE would be dumb enough to sue over a 2,000 dollar machine. With their legal force, it is going to cost you a lot more than any of us have to ever even see them in court...

    Threatening everyone with "I am going to sue you" is a schoolyard tactic. I would say "Good luck with that" and hang up on you.

    Granted they seem to have pretty shitty support, but they ARE giving him options on how to let them honor the warranty. Suing would be fruitless and snoofle would definitely end up in the poorhouse on legal fees alone.



  • @dlikhten said:

    Not that it would make you feel any better, but in New York near central park there is a 24hr apple store which will gladly turn your doorstop into a pretty door stop. :(

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

    I actually work 10 blocks from that store... but it's bit much to haul it in to work for 90 minutes on the bus and then walk 10 blocks to the store with a 20 inch iMac under my arm.

    To be fair, the OS (Tiger, then Leopard) has been quite stable; and I get that hardware occasionally fails, but to only offer service when most people can't take advantage of it is (probably a smart business practice from a cost perspective) a sure way to piss off your customers.

     



  • Around here, you can sue in small claims court for about $6.00, but at that point, it's not about the money, but about getting a pound of flesh; that doesn't work with corporations.

    Personally, I feel that if they blow me off, then I'll just tell of my personal experiences with the company to anyone who will listen, and take it out of their bottom line like that.



  • @snoofle said:

    Around here, you can sue in small claims court for about $6.00, but at that point, it's not about the money, but about getting a pound of flesh; that doesn't work with corporations.

    Personally, I feel that if they blow me off, then I'll just tell of my personal experiences with the company to anyone who will listen, and take it out of their bottom line like that.

     

    That would be the better, more mature solution that is more likely to obtain results...



  • @snoofle said:

    @dlikhten said:

    Not that it would make you feel any better, but in New York near central park there is a 24hr apple store which will gladly turn your doorstop into a pretty door stop. :(

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

    I actually work 10 blocks from that store... but it's bit much to haul it in to work for 90 minutes on the bus and then walk 10 blocks to the store with a 20 inch iMac under my arm.

    To be fair, the OS (Tiger, then Leopard) has been quite stable; and I get that hardware occasionally fails, but to only offer service when most people can't take advantage of it is (probably a smart business practice from a cost perspective) a sure way to piss off your customers.

     

    In my experience with apple, everyone I know who has an iPod had it break in 3 months. Then again within 5 months. in 2 year time they always opted to just buy another one or a different brand caz they didn't want to deal with h/w issues.



  • Apple would have to be pretty stupid to think that ANYONE
    would be dumb enough to sue over a 2,000 dollar machine. With their
    legal force, it is going to cost you a lot more than any of us have to
    ever even see them in court...

     This is precisely what class-action lawsuits are for.

     

    In my experience with apple, everyone I know who has an iPod had it
    break in 3 months. Then again within 5 months. in 2 year time they
    always opted to just buy another one or a different brand caz they
    didn't want to deal with h/w issues.

     I know plenty of people with iPods, and I know of one that broke -- after being dropped five feet. Guess anecdotes will be anecdotes.

     

    Also, I'm not sure what laptop manufacturer honors a warranty on a machine that's been completely disassembled. At least MacBooks have user-servicable hard disks and memory. 



  • @snoofle said:

    Around here, you can sue in small claims court for about $6.00, but at that point, it's not about the money, but about getting a pound of flesh; that doesn't work with corporations.

    Here in the UK large corporations almost never bother to show up in small claims courts, so you can basically win anything that you can show reasonable evidence for. You walk in, tell the judge what happened, show him your invoice/receipt indicating that you're suing the right person and aren't just making it all up, he notes that the defendant isn't here to argue their case and files a default judgement of whatever you asked for (people who don't bother to show up for a civil suit are treated by the court as if they had nothing to say anyway, so if what you say makes sense then you're done). Usually takes about ten minutes.



  • @Maciej said:

    Apple would have to be pretty stupid to think that ANYONE
    would be dumb enough to sue over a 2,000 dollar machine. With their
    legal force, it is going to cost you a lot more than any of us have to
    ever even see them in court...

     This is precisely what class-action lawsuits are for.

     

    You do realize a class action lawsuit requires more than one person right?



  • [quote user=""]
    Here in the UK large corporations almost never bother to show up in small claims courts, so you can basically win anything that you can show reasonable evidence for. You walk in, tell the judge what happened, show him your invoice/receipt indicating that you're suing the right person and aren't just making it all up, he notes that the defendant isn't here to argue their case and files a default judgement of whatever you asked for (people who don't bother to show up for a civil suit are treated by the court as if they had nothing to say anyway, so if what you say makes sense then you're done). Usually takes about ten minutes.
    [/quote]
    Same deal around here.



  •  Ahh the Creative Zen, got one myself.  Doesn't need extra software installed, compatible with everything that isn't Apple, and no DRM built in.  I can rip my cd's and copy them to this with no problem.  I can purchase music online and copy them here with no problem.  Any DRM crap added to a file is ignored, I love it.

    The Zen allows me to listen to the music I paid for in my way legally, without trying to find a way around Apple's lockdown.  Apple used to be good, but they are now showing that they a losing thier focus on thier core customers.  People went there because thier machines were better for some tasks.  PC's can now do those tasks just as good with less headaches.  These days it is all about the software, not the hardware.  Once apple realizes this, they can change thier focus to take care of the customer first.  That will win back a portion of the users.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Maciej said:

    Apple would have to be pretty stupid to think that ANYONE
    would be dumb enough to sue over a 2,000 dollar machine. With their
    legal force, it is going to cost you a lot more than any of us have to
    ever even see them in court...

     This is precisely what class-action lawsuits are for.

     

    You do realize a class action lawsuit requires more than one person right?

     

    Auto-insurance companies do same thing. If ur damage is say 2 grand, they will deny your claim (say someone crashed into you and their insurance is denying) because NO lawyer will take the case. Your only option is to sue them youself without a lawyer. Most ppl don't, but you can sue em for the following:

    1) Breach of contract

    2) YOUR personal time spent on the issue -- your time is worth money and you have the right

     

    My co-worker did that, didn't get the full ammount but got a small settlement. He figured might as well huh. Remember it costs them money to even talk to you caz their lawyers do cost money.

    Edit: You drag it out, they suffer. You can just talk to a lawyer for advice, then u gota do everything urself.



  • @dlikhten said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Maciej said:

    Apple would have to be pretty stupid to think that ANYONE
    would be dumb enough to sue over a 2,000 dollar machine. With their
    legal force, it is going to cost you a lot more than any of us have to
    ever even see them in court...

     This is precisely what class-action lawsuits are for.

     

    You do realize a class action lawsuit requires more than one person right?

     

    Auto-insurance companies do same thing. If ur damage is say 2 grand, they will deny your claim (say someone crashed into you and their insurance is denying) because NO lawyer will take the case. Your only option is to sue them youself without a lawyer. Most ppl don't, but you can sue em for the following:

    1) Breach of contract

    2) YOUR personal time spent on the issue -- your time is worth money and you have the right

     

    My co-worker did that, didn't get the full ammount but got a small settlement. He figured might as well huh. Remember it costs them money to even talk to you caz their lawyers do cost money.

    Edit: You drag it out, they suffer. You can just talk to a lawyer for advice, then u gota do everything urself.


    I am sorry, you lost me with all the baby talk/type.

    But regardless, you appear to be arguing a completely different subject now. I stand by my point. You are not going to scare Apple by telling them you will sue over a DVD drive.



  • @Maciej said:

    Also, I'm not sure what laptop manufacturer honors a warranty on a machine that's been completely disassembled. At least MacBooks have user-servicable hard disks and memory. 

     

    Dell does. In fact, they gave me a manual on how to strip my laptop down completely.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    @Maciej said:

    Also, I'm not sure what laptop manufacturer honors a warranty on a machine that's been completely disassembled. At least MacBooks have user-servicable hard disks and memory. 

     

    Dell does. In fact, they gave me a manual on how to strip my laptop down completely.

     

    Yep same here. They have never given me a problem in this regard in either the residential or business sector.

    If you have to call them for something, dear god, I feel sorry for you. But they have always seemed to have their heads about them in service IMO.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Hitsuji said:
    @Maciej said:
    Also, I'm not sure what laptop manufacturer honors a warranty on a machine that's been completely disassembled. At least MacBooks have user-servicable hard disks and memory.

    Dell does. In fact, they gave me a manual on how to strip my laptop down completely.

    Yep same here. They have never given me a problem in this regard in either the residential or business sector.

    If you have to call them for something, dear god, I feel sorry for you. But they have always seemed to have their heads about them in service IMO.

    Agreed on all points. I've had the same basic experience with Gateway too!



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I am sorry, you lost me with all the baby talk/type.

    But regardless, you appear to be arguing a completely different subject now. I stand by my point. You are not going to scare Apple by telling them you will sue over a DVD drive.

     

    The point is: Apple is breaching contract.

    1) Apple is refusing to repair his computer during an acceptable time

    2) Apple is only willing to repair during his work time, which means that HE will loose money for trying to repair an apple computer.

    He has every right to sue apple to do the following:

    1) Repair the computer at his convenience + compensate for time spent

    2) Compensate for time spent on lawsute AND  compensate for lost work time.

    Remember its cheaper to send a repair dude to your house and repair the dvd than it is to go though a lawsute, even against you and you alone. What... 100 bucks spent vs 1000? As a corporation they would be inclined for the former. They just want to discourage you from doing anything.



  • @dlikhten said:

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

    Um.... no they don't. Fail. They have made the statement that Mac OS X has a better security model than Windows, so there are fewer opportunities for exploits, which is arguably true. (There are very few apps which require a Mac user to be logged in as an administrator to work properly.)

    It is also true that at the moment there are no viruses for Mac OS X. (There were around 30 for the "classic" Mac OS, but none of them work on the current machines.) There have been security holes, but no viruses which take advantage of them (yet).

    @dlikhten said:

    Call them and tell them that you are demanding that the part is sent to you or you will sue them.

    They offered to fix his computer under warrantee. Several times. They have no liability. If Snoofle took them to court, not only would the case be thrown out but they could probably recover their legal expenses from him -- and corporate lawyers are expensive.

    @dlikhten said:

    OR you will gladly follow any procedures they have as long as they compensate you for ALL money lost during the repair period, or for taking time off from work, etc... It will cost them more to defend and negative publicity then to fix ur damn comp up

    They don't have to compensate for money lost while you wait for repair. The warrantee comes with terms, and those terms include giving them time to fix the computer. And since they already offered to fix his computer several times, there wouldn't be any negative publicity.

    @dlikhten said:

    In my experience with apple, everyone I know who has an iPod had it break in 3 months. Then again within 5 months. in 2 year time they always opted to just buy another one or a different brand caz they didn't want to deal with h/w issues.

    Reminds me of an old Dilbert cartoon:

    Boss: Everyone says our website sucks.
    Ming: You've spoken to everyone in the whole world?
    Boss: Well, okay, this one guy told me our website sucks.
    Ming: And you confused him with the population of the entire planet?

    Yes, everyone says iPods suck and you should buy a non-Apple player...

    Oh, and to try and offer some practical help: for Mac service under warrantee, you don't have to go to an Apple store. You can go to any authorized service provider, and the ones which aren't busy with sales are likely to be faster. (The Apple Stores use the same techs to do repairs under warrantee as they use to do things like install RAM for custom orders, so you aren't just waiting in line with other repair jobs, you're waiting in line with everyone who has offered an even slighly-customized machine as well.) See http://www.apple.com/buy/locator/service/.



  • @dlikhten said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I am sorry, you lost me with all the baby talk/type.

    But regardless, you appear to be arguing a completely different subject now. I stand by my point. You are not going to scare Apple by telling them you will sue over a DVD drive.

     

    The point is: Apple is breaching contract.

    1) Apple is refusing to repair his computer during an acceptable time

    2) Apple is only willing to repair during his work time, which means that HE will loose money for trying to repair an apple computer.

    He has every right to sue apple to do the following:

    1) Repair the computer at his convenience + compensate for time spent

    2) Compensate for time spent on lawsute AND  compensate for lost work time.

    Remember its cheaper to send a repair dude to your house and repair the dvd than it is to go though a lawsute, even against you and you alone. What... 100 bucks spent vs 1000? As a corporation they would be inclined for the former. They just want to discourage you from doing anything.

     

    I don't think you are going to be able to show me where Apple is breaching their contract. You have an obligation as a customer to do research and know if the manufacturer's warranty service is going to be acceptable to your needs.

    Suing is not the right option here. Escalating the calls, writing a letter or two, and posting your experiences in public forums are all excellent tactics. This should be followed up by a refusal to repeat business with this company.

    You say the point is a breach of contract... I say you seem to have missed the point I have made several times. Apple is not scared of you suing them. They get sued hourly (probably more, but whatever).  They don't pay their lawyers each time you run your mouth on their phone line. They have lawyers on staff. All big companies do. The lawyers will get paid either way, Apple is not going to worry about you. They will let you go and waste all your time and money, and then they will send you a DVD drive or a new machine as a settlement. 

    Your immediate stance of "Sue them!" is exactly what is wrong with the US these days...



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    You do realize a class action lawsuit requires more than one person right? 

    I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about some kind of endemic problem common to many of Apple's customers, as opposed to an isolated incident. If that's not the case, I'll retract my comment.

     @Hitsuji said:

    Dell does. In fact, they gave me a manual on how to strip my laptop down completely.

     

    Interesting. I had no idea. 



  • While I appreciate the spirited debate on lawsuits....

    This story has a happy ending. I spent an hour on the phone with someone from an office (Corporate Customer Relations) that reports directly to Steve Jobs. They tried to intervene on my behalf with a) the support vendor - who absolutely refused to let me have the parts, b) several Apple stores, some of which said that they wouldn't accommodate, but one that said that they understood my time constraints, and that if I brought the machine in first thing Saturday morning, they'd have it done by Sunday afternoon, which definitely solves my problem.

    Corporate labrynths can be infuriating, but a little (ok a lot of) persistence, and a polite tone of voice can work wonders.

    Thank you, Apple!



  • @Maciej said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    You do realize a class action lawsuit requires more than one person right? 

    I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about some kind of endemic problem common to many of Apple's customers, as opposed to an isolated incident. If that's not the case, I'll retract my comment.

     

    Considering the thread is about one guy and his failed DVD drive, I would say yes it is an isolated incident so far.

    Just because you have a handful of people chiming in and saying "Yeah tehy sucks!!!!1!!! yo should sue themz!!!1!!!" doesn't mean you have an 'endemic' problem worthy of a class action lawsuit.



  • @snoofle said:

    While I appreciate the spirited debate on lawsuits....

    This story has a happy ending. I spent an hour on the phone with someone from an office (Corporate Customer Relations) that reports directly to Steve Jobs. They tried to intervene on my behalf with a) the support vendor - who absolutely refused to let me have the parts, b) several Apple stores, some of which said that they wouldn't accommodate, but one that said that they understood my time constraints, and that if I brought the machine in first thing Saturday morning, they'd have it done by Sunday afternoon, which definitely solves my problem.

    Corporate labrynths can be infuriating, but a little (ok a lot of) persistence, and a polite tone of voice can work wonders.

    Thank you, Apple!

     

    Glad to hear it worked out. Mostly because it illustrates my point. Suing them (or even threatening) would not have gotten the same results in the same timeframe.



  • @The Vicar said:

    If Snoofle took them to court, not only would the case be thrown out but they could probably recover their legal expenses from him -- and corporate lawyers are expensive.

    Awards of legal fees are extremely rare and only given in cases of excessively abusive behaviour by one of the parties, as a punishment. There's almost no way to get your opponent a grant of legal fees that won't also get your lawyer hauled up before a bar disciplinary hearing (where the question of their suspension or disbarment will be raised).

    Perhaps you are thinking of court costs. Those are awarded in cases where, in the judge's opinion, the costs were an unnecessary burden on one of the parties (for example, if the suit is without merit, then the defendant should not have to bear the costs of paying to file their arguments explaining this). Court costs are those fees which are paid to the court, and are affected only by the length and complexity of the case.

    Furthermore, awards of legal fees are not based on the actual costs of the lawyers, but rather on the court's opinion of what would be a reasonable cost (usually computed based on their estimate of a reasonable number of hours multiplied by the prevailing hourly rate in the area); if your lawyers happen to have billed you for more than that, that's your problem.

    Lastly, a court will never award disproportionate legal fees against somebody who cannot afford to pay them. All fines and fee awards are capped by the limit of what the relevant individual can reasonably pay. This applies in both civil and common law systems - every court agrees that it is in nobody's best interests to bankrupt somebody (but no such safety net exists for corporations).



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Considering the thread is about one guy and his failed DVD drive, I would say yes it is an isolated incident so far.

     

     

    It sounded to me like the complaint was about Apple support policies, rather than about a specific case of poor service. Again, if that's not the case  then I will happily agree that a class action isn't appropriate.

     



  • @Hitsuji said:

    @Maciej said:

    Also, I'm not sure what laptop manufacturer honors a warranty on a machine that's been completely disassembled. At least MacBooks have user-servicable hard disks and memory. 

    Dell does. In fact, they gave me a manual on how to strip my laptop down completely.

     

    IBM goes one further and explicitly lists each part in their systems, along with a designation as to whether it is a Customer Replaceable Unit (CRU) or not. A CRU is both allowed and expected to be serviced and replaced by the customer: they'll ship you a new one if it's still under warranty, but if you want one of their engineers to make the replacement, they'll charge you for that service (unless you paid extra for the full-service warranty package).

    Hard drives and PCI cards are usually CRUs. Motherboards and processors are not. Other components vary with the model in question (laptop memory is usually a CRU; server memory is usually not).



  • @Maciej said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Considering the thread is about one guy and his failed DVD drive, I would say yes it is an isolated incident so far.

     

     It sounded to me like the complaint was about Apple support policies, rather than about a specific case of poor service. Again, if that's not the case  then I will happily agree that a class action isn't appropriate.

     

     

    Suggestion: Read the thread.



  • @dlikhten said:

    The point is: Apple is breaching contract.

    1) Apple is refusing to repair his computer during an acceptable time

    2) Apple is only willing to repair during his work time, which means that HE will loose money for trying to repair an apple computer.

    Have you read the warranty agreement? I haven't, but I would be very surprised if the warranty agreement says that Apple agrees to fix the computer at any
    time the customer wants and agrees to refund the user for any money he loses (not looses) while waiting for his computer to be fixed. If you want that sort of
    protection, you're going to pay extra for it, not just get it included along with the computer. Apple is probably not breaching any contracts, they are handling
    it exactly like the agreement says they will.



  • FYI: I called up Apple... I was given the following statement: "Apple does not need an anti-virus, the chances of you getting one is next to nothing, in my career I never experienced anyone having a virus on an Apple... etc..."

    They said this, not ambiguously, I asked tons of questions, they all lead to the same answer.

     

    And everyone is anyone I know, or meet. Maybe a few people on this site dissagree with me because they had a good experience, but that is rare. No it is not one guy who I say everyone in the world. Had it been one guy I would not say that.

     

    But other than that, I am probably too quick to jump the gun and sue someone :P 



  • @dlikhten said:

    FYI: I called up Apple... I was given the following statement: "Apple does not need an anti-virus, the chances of you getting one is next to nothing, in my career I never experienced anyone having a virus on an Apple... etc..."

    They said this, not ambiguously, I asked tons of questions, they all lead to the same answer.

     

    I bet you are the person that support person will go home and talk about today. "Honey, you wouldn't believe the moron who called me..."   Congrats.

    @dlikhten said:

    And everyone is anyone I know, or meet. Maybe a few people on this site dissagree with me because they had a good experience, but that is rare. No it is not one guy who I say everyone in the world. Had it been one guy I would not say that.

    So if I say everyone I know or meet says the Ipod is great and that they love it, would that negate your tiny view of the world?

    @dlikhten said:

    But other than that, I am probably too quick to jump the gun and sue someone :P 

    Yes you are. Good luck with that. I would love to hear the results of any lawsuit you file against MS or Apple...

     



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Suggestion: Read the thread. 

     

    Thanks guy, I did. I see a suggestion to sue them because they refuse to sell replacement parts directly to consumers. Without going into the merit of such a lawsuit, that sure sounds like a company-wide policy. 



  • @Maciej said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Suggestion: Read the thread. 

     

    Thanks guy, I did. I see a suggestion to sue them because they refuse to sell replacement parts directly to consumers. Without going into the merit of such a lawsuit, that sure sounds like a company-wide policy. 

     

    So you are going to make a class action lawsuit because Apple wont directly give you warranty replacement parts and instead insists that you let their service department do the warranty work?

    Wow...  Let me know how that works for you. If you can, film the lawyer as he laughs you out of his office. I would love to see that.



  • The only problem I've ever had with Dell is when, many years ago, I bought a machine loaded with Win2KPro.  The offer at the time was that when XPPro came out, they'd send me the upgrade free.  Well, after following the procedure (calling or submitting an online form with the offer number, etc) I just couldn't get my upgrade.  I kept detailed notes of my multiple conversations with them as documentation.  The resolution was when I simply went out and bought the upgrade myself....and sent the receipt to them.  I was reimbursed quickly and don't remember having to push for it at all. 



  • @dlikhten said:

    FYI: I called up Apple... I was given the following statement: "Apple does not need an anti-virus, the chances of you getting one is next to nothing, in my career I never experienced anyone having a virus on an Apple... etc..."

    They said this, not ambiguously, I asked tons of questions, they all lead to the same answer.

     Well, it's true.  Do YOU know anyone who has experienced a virus on Mac OS X?

    Does anyone?

    They don't exist.  Yet.

    As for iPods, I've owned 3 myself, and the two that I still own (I sold the first one) are still going strong, complete with acceptable battery life even.  My brother and sister each own one too, and apart from my brother getting his run over by a car (he still alleges this was my fault) they've been just fine too.  He did receive a refurb'd iPod that was DOA, but they replaced it promptly.

    In response to the OP's concerns, yes, Apple having proprietary and non-user-servicable parts is a concern, and I'm sorry to hear about the bad service experience.  Apple hardware issues are not as rare as they should be, but when you do receive a Mac with no issues, the experience is designed to be very, very smooth.

    Believe it or not, e-mailing Steve Jobs often gets things rolling.  Many people on MacRumors.com have attested to having their problems solved very quickly after they've escalated it by sending him an upset email.  Obviously it's not Steve himself who replies, but someone high up does take care of things.

     



  • @Maciej said:

    Also, I'm not sure what laptop manufacturer honors a warranty on a machine that's been completely disassembled. At least MacBooks have user-servicable hard disks and memory.
    At least HP, Lenovo and Acer do (these are the notebooks where I upgraded various things without voiding the warranty).



  • @snoofle said:

    While I appreciate the spirited debate on lawsuits....

    This story has a happy ending. I spent an hour on the phone with someone from an office (Corporate Customer Relations) that reports directly to Steve Jobs. They tried to intervene on my behalf with a) the support vendor - who absolutely refused to let me have the parts, b) several Apple stores, some of which said that they wouldn't accommodate, but one that said that they understood my time constraints, and that if I brought the machine in first thing Saturday morning, they'd have it done by Sunday afternoon, which definitely solves my problem.

    Corporate labrynths can be infuriating, but a little (ok a lot of) persistence, and a polite tone of voice can work wonders.

    Thank you, Apple!

     

    It's funny how these things get done when you talk to the higher ups.  My uncle went through a similar processes with Compaq and resolved it by writing an email to the CEO... 



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I bet you are the person that support person will go home and talk about today. "Honey, you wouldn't believe the moron who called me..."   Congrats.

     

    Look man don't project your stupidity onto us...

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

     So if I say everyone I know or meet says the Ipod is great and that they love it, would that negate your tiny view of the world?

     Do you say that?

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Yes you are. Good luck with that. I would love to hear the results of any lawsuit you file against MS or Apple... 

     

    Why would I file any lawsuits? I have nothing to gain from it. I don't own any apple products nor did windows destroy my data or w/e...



  • @tster said:

    @snoofle said:

    While I appreciate the spirited debate on lawsuits....

    This story has a happy ending. I spent an hour on the phone with someone from an office (Corporate Customer Relations) that reports directly to Steve Jobs. They tried to intervene on my behalf with a) the support vendor - who absolutely refused to let me have the parts, b) several Apple stores, some of which said that they wouldn't accommodate, but one that said that they understood my time constraints, and that if I brought the machine in first thing Saturday morning, they'd have it done by Sunday afternoon, which definitely solves my problem.

    Corporate labrynths can be infuriating, but a little (ok a lot of) persistence, and a polite tone of voice can work wonders.

    Thank you, Apple!

     

    It's funny how these things get done when you talk to the higher ups.  My uncle went through a similar processes with Compaq and resolved it by writing an email to the CEO... 

     

    Sweet!



  • @dlikhten said:

    Look man don't project your stupidity onto us...
     

    Exactly what I was saying. Thanks.



  • @The Vicar said:

    Reminds me of an old Dilbert cartoon:

    Boss: Everyone says our website sucks.
    Ming: You've spoken to everyone in the whole world?
    Boss: Well, okay, this one guy told me our website sucks.
    Ming: And you confused him with the population of the entire planet?

    Yes, everyone says iPods suck and you should buy a non-Apple player...

     

    you must not be familiar with a little thing we like to call statistics.


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