DreamHost $7.5 Million Billing System Error


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Right.... and if you 'bounce' the amount instead of 'overdraft' the amount, it is typically MUCH worse in terms of fines and penalties. Typically the bank charges you, the person you wrote the check to charges you, and the police can even get involved in some cases.

    Why you would prefer that, instead of your bank handling the situation and charging you a fee for it is beyond me. Maybe you should find a new bank.

    Your argument notwithstanding, your proposed solution isn't as simple as it would first appear. All the banks in the UK prefer the "fine you now, then fine you next month and the month after because our fines are extortionate and you didn't expect them to rack up so quickly" model and don't provide a means of the customer actually choosing bouncing instead of using an unauthorised overdraft.

    There are two cases where they will usually prefer to bounce:

    1) You've already hit your limit for your unauthorised overdraft. (e.g. you've hit that £2000 ceiling when your authorised overdraft was £200. By this point you're normally screwed anyway because they'll have disabled your account.)

    2) You have a 'basic' bank account. With these government sanctioned accounts (which the banks are at great pains NOT to issue because they are not profit making) you typically don't get a cheque book, or useful debit card on the grounds that these can make you go overdrawn. They're the bank account of 'choice' for those who cannot (for credit history reasons) open a normal bank account.

    Needless to say, option (2) isn't really a viable option for someone who can get, and wants, a useful current account. They don't even allow DD's from what I remember.


  • @PJH said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Right.... and if you 'bounce' the amount instead of 'overdraft' the amount, it is typically MUCH worse in terms of fines and penalties. Typically the bank charges you, the person you wrote the check to charges you, and the police can even get involved in some cases.

    Why you would prefer that, instead of your bank handling the situation and charging you a fee for it is beyond me. Maybe you should find a new bank.

    Your argument notwithstanding, your proposed solution isn't as simple as it would first appear. All the banks in the UK prefer the "fine you now, then fine you next month and the month after because our fines are extortionate and you didn't expect them to rack up so quickly" model and don't provide a means of the customer actually choosing bouncing instead of using an unauthorised overdraft.

    There are two cases where they will usually prefer to bounce:

    1) You've already hit your limit for your unauthorised overdraft. (e.g. you've hit that £2000 ceiling when your authorised overdraft was £200. By this point you're normally screwed anyway because they'll have disabled your account.)

    2) You have a 'basic' bank account. With these government sanctioned accounts (which the banks are at great pains NOT to issue because they are not profit making) you typically don't get a cheque book, or useful debit card on the grounds that these can make you go overdrawn. They're the bank account of 'choice' for those who cannot (for credit history reasons) open a normal bank account.

    Needless to say, option (2) isn't really a viable option for someone who can get, and wants, a useful current account. They don't even allow DD's from what I remember.

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?

    IIRC, you responded to a joke with "Quit your bitching."
     



  • @belgariontheking said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?

    IIRC, you responded to a joke with "Quit your bitching."
     

    This was a joke?

    http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/142918/143010/ShowThread.aspx#143010

     



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @belgariontheking said:
    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?

    IIRC, you responded to a joke with "Quit your bitching." 

    This was a joke?

    http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/142918/143010/ShowThread.aspx#143010

    I see now.  apparently IDNRC.

    Thought http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/142918/143061/ShowThread.aspx#143061 was responding to your response to Gallagher.  Why do I keep saying things.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    @belgariontheking said:
    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?

    IIRC, you responded to a joke with "Quit your bitching." 

    This was a joke?

    http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/142918/143010/ShowThread.aspx#143010

    I see now.  apparently IDNRC.

    Thought http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/142918/143061/ShowThread.aspx#143061 was responding to your response to Gallagher.  Why do I keep saying things.

    You had me going there for a second, I figured I just didn't get the joke in that post.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @PJH said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    [...]  Maybe you should find a new bank.
    [...]  your proposed solution isn't as simple as it would first appear.[...]

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?

    No, (one of) your proposed solution(s) was 'find a new bank.'

    Or at least that's the one I was replying to.



  • @PJH said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    @PJH said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    [...]  Maybe you should find a new bank.
    [...]  your proposed solution isn't as simple as it would first appear.[...]

    What was my proposed solution? AFAIK it was only "Quit your bitching. Just stop bouncing checks."

    Are you arguing that is not the correct solution?

    No, (one of) your proposed solution(s) was 'find a new bank.'

    Or at least that's the one I was replying to.

    If all the banks are corrupt like you seem to indicate, then you might want to look over my coffee can burial advice mentioned previously. Make sure you wear your tin foil hat.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    If all the banks are corrupt like you seem to indicate, then you might want to look over my coffee can burial advice mentioned previously. Make sure you wear your tin foil hat.

    Oh, they're not corrupt in the way I think you're implying.

    At least I don't think so.

    Conversely, I've managed to take advantage of some of the loopholes they've provided before they ended up shutting them. (0% balance transfers sans fees and LTSB matched 'save the change' offer for those who want to bother googling them) - I've made a few grand over the past few years through them.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Right.... and if you 'bounce' the amount instead of 'overdraft' the amount[...]

     As long as we're wildly off-topic, I may as well bring out the pedantry and note that he would be overdrawing his account, not overdrafting it. An overdraft is what happens when you overdraw.
     



  • @markleo said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Right.... and if you 'bounce' the amount instead of 'overdraft' the amount[...]

     As long as we're wildly off-topic, I may as well bring out the pedantry and note that he would be overdrawing his account, not overdrafting it. An overdraft is what happens when you overdraw.
     

    ....



  • @DaveK said:

    @scwolf said:

    From what I've read, those may very well be the same guy.

    Should have tried reading for comprehension then.

    @http://blog.dreamhost.com/2008/01/15/um-whoops/ said:

    I can imagine the half second or so of thought that sprinted
    through the programmer’s mind when he was adding the ability to allow
    you to pass in what day to run the biller as

    That would be a very strange way to describe it if he himself was that programmer.

     

    And you should have tried reading a few sentences down:

    But instead, somebody along the line (Sage? Me? Somebody else?) figured, “What’s the harm in keeping it flexible?”

    Because the fact that he lists himself as a possibility of being "somebody along the line" leads me to believe that he doesn't remember who in their small company was responsible for this bit of code but hasn't discounted the possibility that it was himself.

     



  • @scwolf said:

    @DaveK said:
    @scwolf said:

    From what I've read, those may very well be the same guy.

    Should have tried reading for comprehension then.

    @http://blog.dreamhost.com/2008/01/15/um-whoops/ said:

    I can imagine the half second or so of thought that sprinted
    through the programmer’s mind when he was adding the ability to allow
    you to pass in what day to run the biller as

    That would be a very strange way to describe it if he himself was that programmer.

    And you should have tried reading a few sentences down:

    But instead, somebody along the line (Sage? Me? Somebody else?) figured, “What’s the harm in keeping it flexible?”

    Because the fact that he lists himself as a possibility of being "somebody along the line" leads me to believe that he doesn't remember who in their small company was responsible for this bit of code but hasn't discounted the possibility that it was himself.

    This kind of thing would not fly on my project.  If it's not part of the requirements, it doesn't get built in.  I certainly am not going to do more work than is in the requirements.  Something like this might happen.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    This kind of thing would not fly on my project.  If it's not part of the requirements, it doesn't get built in.  I certainly am not going to do more work than is in the requirements.  Something like this might happen.

    Turn it the other way. There's no requirement to PREVENT billing for future dates, and you make a design decision that means the system's naturally capable of it.



  • @m0ffx said:

    @belgariontheking said:

    This kind of thing would not fly on my project.  If it's not part of the requirements, it doesn't get built in.  I certainly am not going to do more work than is in the requirements.  Something like this might happen.

    Turn it the other way. There's no requirement to PREVENT billing for future dates, and you make a design decision that means the system's naturally capable of it.

    Good point.  Upon thinking of it, I would have turned around to those who generated the requirements, asked them about it, and modified the requirements document, with their approval.



  • @rbowes said:

    They may have pissed off a lot of people, but think about the free advertising they got. I had never heard of DreamWorks until yesterday. And now I heard about it from several places!

     

    I don't think that free advertising is as good as Dream[b]Host[/b] thought. 



  • @wooter said:

     

    1) This was "business as usual", only, the input date was december 31, 2008.

     

     

    God forbid flubby fingers typo's 1/31/2080 next month. A proper system would prevent user error from costing millions of dollars. 


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