DNS is optional

[gleemonk]

So has taken over this application from who'd departed to greener pastures. and me just had a session piecing together what happened half a year ago when the backend service was migrated to a new system by . Which, in your opinion, is TRWTF here?

Say Gleemonk can you help me quick?
What is it?
You know networks right?
It's my secret passion but yes.
So I'm checking up on this webserver here. When it connects to its backend service gulfstream, how can I know which server it is?
What do you mean?
See I do ping gulfstream on the server and it pings address 172.16.233.2. But when I do host gulfstream it says 192.168.2.44
Well host doesn't read /etc/hosts. Have you checked that file?
Let's check! Look there's this line 172.16.233.2 gulfstream.
it's really there!
who would do this?
Why are you using an unqualified domain-name anyway?
I don't know. That's the way it's set up.
There are more entries in hosts. All managed by puppet judging by the comments. I don't like how Sys makes us use unqualified domain-names. But I never realised these were actually entries in hosts.
Do we know why it's set-up that way?
I never got a clear answer from Sys.
[Scrolls around despondently in /etc/hosts of the webserver]
Seeing this hosts and given how I hear Sys complain about their DNS administration webinterface: My theory is that the interface to manage the DNS entries is too cumbersome.
So they hardcode domain-names in the hosts file?

[Snip general shared complaints about Sys]

So but what I don't understand is when I browse to https://gulfstream I end up on gulf10.
What is gulf10?
Well it's the replacement system with Windows 10. gulfstream is Windows 7. You don't know this?
No.
But you wrote a comment in this ticket where it says you switched back to gulfstream because gulf10 provided wrong data in some cases. See here?
Ah yes it was who told Sys to switch DNS back. I was just communicating what happened to update the ticket.
Apparently everybody forgot about this including when he left.
Apparently.
I just got kicked by Sys because they want to turn off gulfstream at the end of the year.
So $somebody will have to fix gulf10 before we can switch back over for good.
Yeah.

[We share a moment of silence pondering who would be willing to take on that task.]

But anyway why does my browser end up on gulf10 when I connect to gulfstream?
Well when told Sys to switch gulfstream to a new server they must have updated the DNS entry.
And Sys would also have updated the entry in hosts. But then when it didn't work and told them to switch back, they just reset the entry in hosts.
And now gulfstream and gulfstream.ourcompany.com point to different hosts.
But then when I run it on my local system gulfstream connects to gulf10, the new system!
Yeah because Sys doesn't manage your /etc/hosts. They just put search ourcompany.com in resolv.conf.
So I get the new system but the webserver gets the old system for the same name. Working here is death by a thousand cuts.

For those who have trouble following along (and I don't blame you): On our dev-systems, both gulfstream and gulfstream.ourcompany.com resolve to the same new troubled production system, called gulf10. On the production webservers, gulfstream resolves to the server called gulfstream which is the old production system. But gulfstream.ourcompany.com does resolve to the new system gulf10 on all hosts.

[HannibalRex]

@gleemonk is it host not reading /etc/hosts? Seems like that would be the perfect file for it to read.

[Benjamin Hall]

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk is it host not reading /etc/hosts? Seems like that would be the perfect file for it to read.

But you forget. Linux.

[HannibalRex]

@Benjamin-Hall I'm about to install Debian on my new laptop this weekend, you're not trying to make me have second thoughts are you?

[izzion]

@HannibalRex
I mean, the fact that you're seriously considering Linux on a workstation is proof that you're too far gone for second thoughts. Press fearlessly onward!

[HannibalRex]

@izzion I really really hope this thing doesn't have a broadcom wireless chip, I forgot to check... Those things have seriously ruined some installs for me

[Zerosquare]

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

@Benjamin-Hall I'm about to install Debian on my new laptop this weekend, you're not trying to make me have second thoughts are you?

Such innocence. It warms my heart, and a the same time I feel some pity.

[Mason_Wheeler]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

I feel like I wasted a lot of time in my life just waiting for stuff to load. I wish I could have it back...

Parallelism to the rescue! Start your downloads at night, go to sleep (which you were going to do anyway), and in the morning you've got your 20 MB file all ready to go. I used this trick all the time in college, when dialup was all we had.

[loopback0]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

On the production webservers

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Windows 10

Wat.

[HannibalRex]

@Zerosquare not too innocent, I've been down the Debian road a few times.

But, speaking of innocence, I compiled from source and ran the Enlightenment desktop on my very first Debian install. If I can find some of my old posts on that mailing list, maybe I'll post some good anecdotes to the appropriate thread.

[Tsaukpaetra]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

me

Mental profile updated.

[LaoC]

@Benjamin-Hall said in DNS is optional:

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk is it host not reading /etc/hosts? Seems like that would be the perfect file for it to read.

But you forget. Linux.

HOST(1)                                                                           BIND9                                                                          HOST(1)

NAME
       host - DNS lookup utility

host is a DNS lookup utility. It looks up stuff in DNS. /etc/hosts is not DNS, so it's not the job of host to look up stuff in /etc/hosts.

[LaoC]

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

@Zerosquare not too innocent, I've been down the Debian road a few times.

But, speaking of innocence, I compiled from source and ran the Enlightenment desktop on my very first Debian install.

The way to bring your innocence score from "snow white" to "crack whore" in a single day, it's this.

[dfdub]

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

is it host not reading /etc/hosts?

Just another proof that naming things is hard, especially when you hate typing long names.

[Tsaukpaetra]

@dfdub said in DNS is optional:

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

is it host not reading /etc/hosts?

Just another proof that naming things is hard, especially when you hate typing long names.

It's so much less memorable than nslookup though!

[dfdub]

@Tsaukpaetra said in DNS is optional:

nslookup

I swear, every third time I use it I have to look up what that command is called. I cannot remember the name for more than a month.

[Tsaukpaetra]

@dfdub said in DNS is optional:

@Tsaukpaetra said in DNS is optional:

nslookup

I swear, every third time I use it I have to look up what that command is called. I cannot remember the name for more than a month.

I always remember "domain name server lookup".

[Steve_The_Cynic]

@dfdub said in DNS is optional:

@Tsaukpaetra said in DNS is optional:

nslookup

I swear, every third time I use it I have to look up what that command is called. I cannot remember the name for more than a month.

Sounds like impending dementia if you ask me.

[dfdub]

@Steve_The_Cynic I know you're joking, but my bad memory seriously makes me worry sometimes.

[Jaloopa]

@Mason_Wheeler said in DNS is optional:

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

I feel like I wasted a lot of time in my life just waiting for stuff to load. I wish I could have it back...

Parallelism to the rescue! Start your downloads at night, go to sleep (which you were going to do anyway), and in the morning you've got your 20 MB file all ready to go. I used this trick all the time in college, when dialup was all we had.

My dialup days coincided with living off grid and relying on battery banks plus am inverter. No chance I was going to leave the computer on overnight

[gleemonk]

@loopback0 said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

On the production webservers

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Windows 10

Wat.

Yeah well Windows is on the backend server because it needs a binary that's only available for Windows. It does count as WTF because we never got around to porting it.

[gleemonk]

@Tsaukpaetra said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

me

Mental profile updated.

I all these emojiz. Tomorrow I'll be !

[gleemonk]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

I am trying hard to feel sympathy, but all I get are two guys complaining about some DNS entries not matching.

Well yeah this describes the situation. If you take everything else as given.

All I am saying, people today have it easy.

Are you seriously comparing our setup to some hobbyist configuration thirty years ago? You know managing hosts was a thing if you go back only a little more.

[gleemonk]

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk is it host not reading /etc/hosts? Seems like that would be the perfect file for it to read.

Yeah that is surprising and counts as a in my book.

[boomzilla]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

I am trying hard to feel sympathy, but all I get are two guys complaining about some DNS entries not matching.

Well yeah this describes the situation. If you take everything else as given.

All I am saying, people today have it easy.

Are you seriously comparing our setup to some hobbyist configuration thirty years ago? You know managing hosts was a thing if you go back only a little more.

Don't mind him. Someone added some sugar to his coffee this morning.

[_P_]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

@HannibalRex said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk is it host not reading /etc/hosts? Seems like that would be the perfect file for it to read.

Yeah that is surprising and counts as a in my book.

Legit question, how do people who avoid using any public DNS server (Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 or Google's 8.8.8.8) "because they are centralized and hence bad" manage the DNS records then? How do they resolve any IPs?

[gleemonk]

@_P_ said in DNS is optional:

Legit question, how do people who avoid using any public DNS server (Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 or Google's 8.8.8.8) "because they are centralized and hence bad" manage the DNS records then? How do they resolve any IPs?

Traditional recursive resolvers work fine. When the operator has a clue. And when they are not currently abused for DDOS amplification. And when the government isn't censoring them. You can run one locally if you're paranoid.

[error]

@boomzilla said in DNS is optional:

Don't mind him. Someone added some sugar to his coffee this morning.

Sugar? That was supposed to be rat poison!

[dfdub]

@boomzilla said in DNS is optional:

Don't mind him. Someone added some sugar to his coffee this morning.

It's so peaceful here since I no longer see his posts.

[mott555]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Seeing this hosts and given how I hear Sys complain about their DNS administration webinterface: My theory is that the interface to manage the DNS entries is too cumbersome.

Do you secretly work for the same company as me? We're always editing our hosts files so we can actually access local servers by name. We used to open tickets to have IT correct their internal DNS records but somehow they can never do it correctly.

[PJH]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Traditional recursive resolvers work fine. [...] You can run one locally if you're paranoid.

For the curious:

How To Configure BIND as a Private Network DNS Server on Ubuntu 14.04 | DigitalOcean

In this tutorial, we will go over how to set up an internal DNS server, using the BIND name server software (BIND9) on Ubuntu 14.04, that can be used by your…

[topspin]

@error said in DNS is optional:

@boomzilla said in DNS is optional:

Don't mind him. Someone added some sugar to his coffee this morning.

Sugar? That was supposed to be rat poison!

He's immune to that.

[TimeBandit]

@dfdub said in DNS is optional:

@Steve_The_Cynic I know you're joking, but my bad memory seriously makes me worry sometimes, then I forget the issue.

FTFY

[dfdub]

@TimeBandit said in DNS is optional:

@dfdub said in DNS is optional:

@Steve_The_Cynic I know you're joking, but my bad memory seriously makes me worry sometimes, then I forget the issue.

FTFY

How do you know me so well?

(Seriously, I might have undiagnosed ADHD. At least it's been suggested to me a few times.)

[error]

@topspin said in DNS is optional:

@error said in DNS is optional:

@boomzilla said in DNS is optional:

Don't mind him. Someone added some sugar to his coffee this morning.

Sugar? That was supposed to be rat poison!

He's immune to that.

I see I'm not the first to try.

[AyGeePlus]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

Btw, are you saying that your setup is professional because you run a webhost on Windows 10 Professional?

I think it's because people pay them to do it.

[AyGeePlus]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

@AyGeePlus said in DNS is optional:

I think it's because people pay them to do it.

Paying random hookers doesn't turn them into professionals.

I know you feel clever right now, but it literally does exactly that. That's what words mean.

[anonymous234]

@dfdub said in DNS is optional:

especially when you hate typing long names

I'm surprised it's not just named h!

[TimeBandit]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Yeah well Windows is on the backend server because it needs a binary that's only available for Windows. It does count as WTF because we never got around to porting it.

Yeah, Windows on the backend is a

but Windows 10

[TimeBandit]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

What makes someone a professional is not a simple fact that they get money for their work. It's the quality of that work

So, you can't say if a hooker is professional until you try her

[ixvedeusi]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

No, I am just saying that you two clowns have it easy compared to how computers worked 35 years ago. You literally have everything cut out for you, and yet you whine about DNS management. taking my for a walk.



[mott555]

@TimeBandit said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Yeah well Windows is on the backend server because it needs a binary that's only available for Windows. It does count as WTF because we never got around to porting it.

Yeah, Windows on the backend is a

but Windows 10

I have a couple of servers that run Windows 10 Professional, for reasons. I still want to punch myself in the face every time I remember them.

[TimeBandit]

@mott555 said in DNS is optional:

I have a couple of servers that run Windows 10 Professional, for reasons.

You're a monster.

I still want to punch myself in the face every time I remember them.

Maybe not

[loopback0]

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

@loopback0 said in DNS is optional:

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

On the production webservers

@gleemonk said in DNS is optional:

Windows 10

Wat.

Yeah well Windows is on the backend server because it needs a binary that's only available for Windows. It does count as WTF because we never got around to porting it.

Windows Server is a thing.

[izzion]

@loopback0 said in DNS is optional:

Window$$$ $$$erver is a thing.

[TheCPUWizard]

@izzion said in DNS is optional:

@loopback0 said in DNS is optional:

Window$$$ $$$erver is a thing.

Yeah, $972 will kill you [$501 for smaller environments]...and that is full retail!

[gleemonk]

@mott555 said in DNS is optional:

Do you secretly work for the same company as me? We're always editing our hosts files so we can actually access local servers by name. We used to open tickets to have IT correct their internal DNS records but somehow they can never do it correctly.

Well it's not that bad at our place. I'm confident that if $somebody created a ticket for Sys, the entry in DNS would be corrected.

[gleemonk]

@levicki said in DNS is optional:

No, I am just saying that you two clowns have it easy compared to how computers worked 35 years ago. You literally have everything cut out for you, and yet you whine about DNS management.

If you cut out your meta-whining we might get along.

Btw, are you saying that your setup is professional because you run a webhost on Windows 10 Professional?

Professionals do stuff for money they wouldn't do otherwise. (Oh no you )

You know managing hosts was a thing if you go back only a little more.

If by "managing" you mean editing a bunch of text files

That's exactly how names were mapped to numbers back in the day. Before DNS came along. Something I thankfully avoided by being born later.

located in a single humongous folder without any organization, naming convention, common format, or logic using vi which seems to be the Linux norm, sure. That's one area where Linux has tremendously advanced over the last three decades or so. Oh wait...

[gleemonk]

@loopback0 said in DNS is optional:

Windows Server is a thing.

Noted. So it's a in a .

[MrL]

I see nothing strange, or wrong, in Windows as a server. Most of systems I worked on were hosted on Windows machines.

I remember at one company, management was constantly bitching about license costs of our servers (whole two of them). For months on end, "OMG, this project is so expensive, those servers cost us a fortune, we have to do something about it". So we finally moved (servers to linux, system to .net core, plus some invented-here strangeness).

Management was ecstatic about the savings. We tried to tell them that now development time is considerably longer, which costs more monthly than those server licenses, plus server management went to different team, which costs us additionally, plus the move itself was a costly project on its own.
But no, it was not possible for them to understand. The project burns more money each month, but it's cheaper because we don't pay for licenses