Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game
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'Rabbids Coding' Teaches Kids The Basics Of Coding For Free
Late last month, Ubisoft introduced Rabbids Coding, a new educational game featuring the company's rabbid characters that helps teach kids the basics of coding. In…
me: got interested in the news, looks into it
me: realizes it's yet another Scratch game
me:
Did Ubisoft get bribes from MIT media department again? To make such things that belongs in nowhere but the deepest bowels of Steam store?
Seriously, if one look at the history of MIT, they have this tendency of promoting their own toys as "this thing will revolutionize teaching coding!". In the 80s it was LOGO and the turtle. the in the 00s it was Scratch and the blocks. They also have the tendency of using the media department to feed the media exactly what they wanted them to say, which is broader than just programming: if you look carefully at STEM-related news there are lots of these.
Apparently people nowadays just implements basic Scratch functionality and starts to claim their projects as "helping young coders to learn basic coding". Are they also the same retards who claim that Minecraft is "helping casual gamers to get into gaming/modding"? Because they're equally fucking awful pieces of lies, and they're the reason why Codecademy isn't the worst thing ever
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I don't get it. Drag and drop for animating characters is a great way to start learning programming, because you can get into the mindset of turning complex ideas into simple instructions without getting bogged down with the language component. Scratch especially because it teaches basic type system stuff like 'a string isn't a number' with shaped blocks and sockets. Maybe it's not quite as paradigmy as Alice3 or Human Resource Machine, but it still does what it says on the tin.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
because you can get into the mindset of turning complex ideas into simple instructions without getting bogged down with the language component
[citation needed]
Also, from my own experience with dealing with newbies that's exactly what Scratch is not achieving: they typically dumps blocks of code/snippets into a function without any organizations, with no plans or breakdown of how they're going to attack the problem, all while having absolutely no ideas what they're dumping into the function the entire time. It's like a soup of code block spaghetti that makes you cringe upon any exposure to it. Scratch is not dealing with this problem, it's just making dumping blocks into your bowl of spaghetti easier. (And for the record, trying to make them write comments isn't help either: they'll write comments describing the block itself instead, which is not contributing to the task.)
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Maybe it's not quite as paradigmy as Alice3 or Human Resource Machine
Human Resource Machine is highly assembly in nature, which is also not what you'd want to throw at people. (Not to mention the amount of shortcuts required to achieve the challenges.) It's basically a puzzle game and nothing else.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Also, from my own experience with dealing with newbies that's exactly what Scratch is not achieving: they typically dumps blocks of code/snippets into a function without any organizations, with no plans or breakdown of how they're going to attack the problem, all while having absolutely no ideas what they're dumping into the function the entire time. It's like a soup of code block spaghetti that makes you cringe upon any exposure to it. Scratch is not dealing with this problem, it's just making dumping blocks into your bowl of spaghetti easier.
Yes, and? You're describing the basics of software development, not the basics of programming. The basics of programming are all about being able to translate your ideas into an instruction set, and this is very hard for most people to figure out, especially when loops are involved. Learning to program is much much harder when you're also learning a very complicated language with complicated ideas, and as a bonus you get the writer's block of 'here's an empty text document in front of you' vs 'all the stuff you'll need to use is on this side panel here' along with confusion over syntax stuff.
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Human Resource Machine is highly assembly in nature, which is also not what you'd want to throw at people.
Interesting. Usually the 'young people these days' rants I hear from software developers are more along the lines of 'they do stupid shit like Java and never have to think in low level'. Do you advocate for the opposite?
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Do you advocate for the opposite?
nah, they just want to sit on their porch, wave their cane angrily and complain about everything and everything including things that they praised yesterday.
at least if they're anything like the people at the assisted living place next door.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You're describing the basics of software development, not the basics of programming
The ultimate goal is to solve a task. What is your definition of "programming"? "Doing pointless
shit that leads to nowhere to assert your dominance as a 'logical being'"?@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
The basics of programming are all about being able to translate your ideas into an instruction set
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Usually the 'young people these days' rants I hear from software developers are more along the lines of 'they do stupid shit like Java and never have to think in low level'. Do you advocate for the opposite?
Yes, because any "instruction set" depends on the language chosen, and choosing low-level languages like C and Assembly like languages is arbitrarily
-ing people who cannot juggle 10 registers in their mind (aka s); not to mention it's completely wrong, because nobody solves tasks by doing DFS: it brings forth lots of pointless detail that does not contribute to the task at hand directly. I wish more people can stop teaching "coding" by instantly diving into the tiniest detail, like discussing "how you swap 2 variables" inside "a quicksort algorithm" because we need to "sort a list" because the task is to "find n maximum values out of a list", and confusing the shit out of everyone. It should've been in the reverse order first. Gritty details are always filled in only when you actually need them.@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
very complicated language with complicated ideas
Perhaps you need to get over your seat and start using Python or something.@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
you get the writer's block of 'here's an empty text document in front of you' vs 'all the stuff you'll need to use is on this side panel here' along with confusion over syntax stuff
You're confusing "making progress" with "making useful progress". Sure, in Scratch you cannot commit a syntax error, but it doesn't mean it's easier to make useful progress: dumping a bunch of unrelated blocks will not get you anywhere closer to the goal most of the time. It's the same with writing source code.
Anyways, this comic is for you:
@error_bot xkcd dfs
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You're describing the basics of software development, not the basics of programming
The ultimate goal is to solve a task. What is your definition of "programming"? "Doing pointless
shit that leads to nowhere to assert your dominance as a 'logical being'"?Programming is the problem solving part. Software development is programming plus design. You're bitching about people who have never programmed before being similarly unable to design whether they start with Java or with Scratch. That's not the point.
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
very complicated language with complicated ideas
Perhaps you need to get over your seat and start using Python or something. yourself. You don't seem to understand that the things that you find so easy now are extremely difficult for people who are new to it all. Python is indeed a good language to start with, but you lose the static checks that make other stuff easier. Maybe the good middle ground is @mason_wheeler's language.@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
you get the writer's block of 'here's an empty text document in front of you' vs 'all the stuff you'll need to use is on this side panel here' along with confusion over syntax stuff
You're confusing "making progress" with "making useful progress". Sure, in Scratch you cannot commit a syntax error, but it doesn't mean it's easier to make useful progress: dumping a bunch of unrelated blocks will not get you anywhere closer to the goal most of the time. It's the same with writing source code.
What the fuck are you even talking about anymore. Since when was 'dumping a bunch of unrelated blocks' brought up? What situation does it appear in? And would you say that cargo-culting is less likely if you push them into using a textual language instead?
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Also, I have no idea how this is a scam as the title claimed if they're giving it out for free.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Also, I have no idea how this is a scam as the title claimed if they're giving it out for free.
By making yet another Scratch project and claiming it'll teach coding?
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Programming is the problem solving part. Software development is programming plus design.
Either you're saying programming doesn't require any design, or you're saying they're teaching young coders to "code without any concerns of the design". Either of them is horrible.
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You don't seem to understand that the things that you find so easy now are extremely difficult for people who are new to it all.
I thought you can do better than to pull out a "you're an elitist!" argument. Fuck yourself.
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
but you lose the static checks that make other stuff easier.
[citation needed]
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Since when was 'dumping a bunch of unrelated blocks' brought up? What situation does it appear in?
Read my first post replying to you, you blindwit.
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I believe the whole point in why Scratch related programmes are still relevant these days is that the general masses does not understand the point being computers are stupid and programmers make strict instruction sets aka "programs" for computers to execute. Scratch is just trying to explain this simple logic...
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@WPT That's true, but then it's not really "teach young people coding", but "let computer/programming-illiterate people try a toy model". The media coverage would be
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Programming is the problem solving part. Software development is programming plus design.
Either you're saying programming doesn't require any design, or you're saying they're teaching young coders to "code without any concerns of the design". Either of them is horrible.
I'm not saying either of those things. You should stop listening to your shoulder aliens.
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You don't seem to understand that the things that you find so easy now are extremely difficult for people who are new to it all.
I thought you can do better than to pull out a "you're an elitist!" argument.
I can. But I don't in the presence of people who can't do better than a 'get over yourself' argument.
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
but you lose the static checks that make other stuff easier.
[citation needed]
What, that static checks make stuff easier? Or that Python loses them? Both are the most obvious fucking thing in the world, but I can't really tailor my accusation of stupidity without knowing which one it is you're talking about.
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Since when was 'dumping a bunch of unrelated blocks' brought up? What situation does it appear in?
Read my first post replying to you, you blindwit.
Ah, you mean unrelated to each other instead of unrelated to the task at hand. Silly me. Well, in case you hadn't noticed, nobody who has just started is doing proper organization no matter what environment it's in, and when you get to the point where organization becomes a topic, Scratch doesn't prevent you from doing it either. I really don't see what the environment being Scratch has to do with people organizing their code.
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@_P_
The media/marketing has to frame it in such a way that it does not hurt the user's ego...
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
that static checks make stuff easier? Or that Python loses them?
I tried to port some Tensorflow code to a Good Language, and the hardest part was figuring out what types the parameters were supposed to be.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
who cannot juggle 10 registers in their mind
My current mental capacity it three dynamic registers and two numeric, limited to precision of two significance.
Do I win a prize? Or a consolation back-pat?
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Either you're saying programming doesn't require any design
I programmed a VCR a couple of times, but I haven't designed it.
Same for a microwave.
Edit to clarify: my point is that — at the risk of sounding redundant — programming is writing a program. No more, no less.
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Also, from my own experience with dealing with newbies that's exactly what Scratch is not achieving: they typically dumps blocks of code/snippets into a function without any organizations, with no plans or breakdown of how they're going to attack the problem, all while having absolutely no ideas what they're dumping into the function the entire time.
Fair point as that may be, that's not the basics of programming.
I think I understand what you're getting at though. You'd rather have kids start writing workflow diagrams top-down instead of writing instructions bottom-up. Is that it?
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@Zecc said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
programming is writing a program. No more, no less.
To say programming is to write program and nothing else is like saying using a natural language doesn't involve grammar and comprehension (both reading and speaking). Yes, you can keep saying "I want X" and "I think X", which is what the level of sophistication typical Scratch "learn programming" lessons involve, but with that you're limited to communicating to a
. You cannot communicate anything more delegate or complicated, and when you attempt to do so you end up speaking, well, gibberish.Now do you want to promote a natural language by encouraging people to speak basic "subject-verb-object" gibberish to everyone as a publicity stunt? That'd be laughable. Hence why Scratch as learning tool is mostly a scam: I don't want to learn a new language by doing that. Give me the real shit instead!
@Zecc said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
I think I understand what you're getting at though. You'd rather have kids start writing workflow diagrams top-down instead of writing instructions bottom-up. Is that it?
I like how you immediately set up the "workflow chart" strawman, as if we would write everything in formal letter to the editor.
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@error said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
that static checks make stuff easier? Or that Python loses them?
I tried to port some Tensorflow code to a Good Language, and the hardest part was figuring out what types the parameters were supposed to be.
Is this supposed to be in favor or against static typing? (I really couldn't tell)
Because it does sound like the static checks missing in the Python API are vital information and the docs apparently don't help.I like Python for quick protoyping but I wouldn't want to ever actually build a large software project with it, in part because of this. But I might just be doing Python wrong.
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It exists to help children learn the basics, it's not intended to be a full training program for developers. I don't see the issue.
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@loopback0 said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
It exists to help children learn the basics, it's not intended to be a full training program for developers. I don't see the issue.
QFT. Or maybe we shouldn't let children play with Lego blocks until they've mastered mechanics of materials?
By the way, the Logo language that was mentioned above? I was introduced to it in school. And that was a good thing. Because this is how I discovered that programming was fun, and that I was pretty good at it. And eventually (much later, of course) turned that into a paying job.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Now do you want to promote a natural language by encouraging people to speak basic "subject-verb-object" gibberish to everyone as a publicity stunt? That'd be laughable. Hence why Scratch as learning tool is mostly a scam: I don't want to learn a new language by doing that. Give me the real shit instead!
You seem to be of the impression that two year olds start learning Classical Latin and need to first figure out grammatical intricacies like declension, cases, mood, etc.
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@topspin said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Now do you want to promote a natural language by encouraging people to speak basic "subject-verb-object" gibberish to everyone as a publicity stunt? That'd be laughable. Hence why Scratch as learning tool is mostly a scam: I don't want to learn a new language by doing that. Give me the real shit instead!
You seem to be of the impression that two year olds start learning Classical Latin and need to first figure out grammatical intricacies like declension, cases, mood, etc.
The strawman going on is ridiculous. I'm not saying Scratch is bad for that purpose (as a toy for kids). I'm saying it is, at best, a toy for kids, and hence claiming or promoting it does anything more than that is
(which is what lots of Scratch projects are trying to do). That's complete scam because it will not do whatever else some people are trying to shoehorn Scratch into properly.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Now do you want to promote a natural language by encouraging people to speak basic "subject-verb-object" gibberish to everyone as a publicity stunt? That'd be laughable. Hence why Scratch as learning tool is mostly a scam: I don't want to learn a new language by doing that. Give me the real shit instead!
What are you on about? Speaking subject verb object gibberish, if you had never attempted to communicate with another human in your life, would be a great jumping off point. Similarly, learning new programming languages means you just learn the language, but to learn the general concept of programming, having never attempted to do so in your life, Scratch is a great tool.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@topspin said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You seem to be of the impression that two year olds start learning Classical
The strawman going on is ridiculous. I'm not saying Scratch is bad for that purpose (as a toy for kids). I'm saying it is, at best, a toy for kids
TFA said:
educational game featuring the company’s rabbid characters that helps teach kids the basics of coding
You're ridiculous.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
claiming or promoting it does anything more than that
Who is doing this?
TFA:
What is this "more" that you speak of?
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@topspin said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Now do you want to promote a natural language by encouraging people to speak basic "subject-verb-object" gibberish to everyone as a publicity stunt? That'd be laughable. Hence why Scratch as learning tool is mostly a scam: I don't want to learn a new language by doing that. Give me the real shit instead!
You seem to be of the impression that two year olds start learning Classical Latin and need to first figure out grammatical intricacies like declension, cases, mood, etc.
The strawman going on is ridiculous. I'm not saying Scratch is bad for that purpose (as a toy for kids). I'm saying it is, at best, a toy for kids, and hence claiming or promoting it does anything more than that is
(which is what lots of Scratch projects are trying to do). That's complete scam because it will not do whatever else some people are trying to shoehorn Scratch into properly.Having been a beginner once, and interacted with a ton more, I can tell you: there is a big mental block around just being able to turn complex ideas into simple instructions. That's true not just for programming - think about how many users calling into tech support expect you to read their mind, and can't get any more detailed than 'it doesn't work' without guidance. This is what I meant when I said you take for granted something other people find very hard - you do not even perceive that there is a challenge in this process, and imagine that programming is the art of taking this easy thing everyone can already do and applying design to it. Perhaps you genuinely haven't even experienced it - some people take to programming instantly. But for the vast majority, the block is there, and it's real, and it's very hard to break down, especially when you are also introducing them for the first time to the idea of a structured text format with this new concept called 'syntax', and the performing of the aforementioned simple instructions in this syntax, and the set of what instructions it's even possible to perform, and a whole bunch of other things that you have just forgotten were anything other than a concept akin to breathing and sleeping.
Scratch makes all of that easy. It drops confusing things like the concept of a structured text language for instructing. It puts tools for seeing what you're doing in the palm of your hand, instead of you working with stupid textual input and output. It replaces extensibility with clarity, configurability with convenience. It makes that mental block, the one that takes the average intro-to-CS class so long that the official solution is 'ignore it and wait for half of the class to drop out', disappear in a couple of days of twiddling. It is, in short, a learning environment. You know, that thing that it says it is and you think is a scam. And then once you've mastered all Scratch has to offer, moving to an actual language is similarly fast, because you're not asking 'what do I do', you're asking 'what's the equivalent of this concept', and know all the concepts ahead of time. Instead of learning your first language, you're already learning to switch languages.
Here is not my Scratch experience, but someone else's. My roommate last semester was a CS dropout who had transferred to art. The intro class had just been steamrolling like I mentioned, and she dropped out because she got a zero on the first two homeworks (i.e. had been trying it for three weeks already). It had been over a full semester since she'd had to do anything programming related. When she mentioned being in art and her abysmal programming stint, my first thought was Scratch. I showed it to her, she showed interest, I explained how to set stuff up and how the blocks worked and etc. I never mentioned programming. I was called in to help a lot at first, but within a week she had something complex and interesting that she wanted to show off, which went so far as to use something almost, but not quite, entirely unlike collision detection. When I wrote out what she had done in Java, and showed her how all the stuff translated, I was sad I didn't get to capture the look of slow dawning almost horrified realization on video as she went back and forth between the blocks and the code and realizing she did week-10 concepts without even any instruction. An hour later she was asking me what Eclipse was called again, because "this shit can't be that hard, I'm trying it again". She has now finished intro to programming with flying colors, and plans to minor in CS. Sadly she thinks video games are stupid, or I would have introduced her to Minecraft modding.
It's all about the block.
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@pie_flavor tl;dr
Also, being stuck in a mental block is, well, your own personal, mental issue. Why should programming languages aim to pander to user's own mental problems?
How hard it is to git gud, or find useful peers to get rid of the block? Are you seriously claiming your own incompetence is why Scratch works for you (and hence for most people)?If you're seriously claiming "Scratch is good for most people because I suck", it says more about yourself than the language itself. Maybe you belong to reddit or something.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Sadly she thinks video games are stupid,
Video games are stupid, but a majority of devs making them (contrary to stigma) don't actually play them all that much.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Sadly she thinks video games are stupid,
Video games are stupid, but a majority of devs making them (contrary to stigma) don't actually play them all that much.
As if devs have time to play their games
...or have the face to not cringe what they've done
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor I am illiterate and also have never tried to teach anyone programming.
Good to know.
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I get it. @_P_ is trying to become a reverse-Blakeyrat.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Sadly she thinks video games are stupid,
Video games are stupid, but a majority of devs making them (contrary to stigma) don't actually play them all that much.
As if devs have time to play their games
...or have the face to not cringe what they've done
I'm slowly fixing what has been done. So slowly...
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@Zerosquare said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
I get it. @_P_ is trying to become a reverse-Blakeyrat.
Seems a common theme about purple-pink-ish letter avatars.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Maybe the good middle ground is @mason_wheeler's language.
I have been summoned, and so I appear...
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@error said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
that static checks make stuff easier? Or that Python loses them?
I tried to port some Tensorflow code to a Good Language, and the hardest part was figuring out what types the parameters were supposed to be.
Why? It should be clear from either the API or the data, depending on which side of the problem you're working from.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor tl;dr
Also, being stuck in a mental block is, well, your own personal, mental issue. Why should programming languages aim to pander to user's own mental problems?
How hard it is to git gud, or find useful peers to get rid of the block? Are you seriously claiming your own incompetence is why Scratch works for you (and hence for most people)?If you're seriously claiming "Scratch is good for most people because I suck", it says more about yourself than the language itself. Maybe you belong to reddit or something.
Wow, that is some serious
-grade reading comprehension you've got going on there...
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@topspin said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Seems a common theme about purple-pink-ish letter avatars.
so if we get them to pick a custom avatar it will fix the crazy?
that's just implausible enough to work!
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@Vixen the Avatar Gifting Thread is
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Vixen the Avatar Gifting Thread is
don't look at me! I suck at art!
can't even sign my name! instead i just carry a pad of ink to make my pawprint on documents i need to sign.
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@Vixen I didn't art the one I posted for you, I just found it on google images.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Vixen I didn't art the one I posted for you, I just found it on google images.
oh....... that's acceptable?
well maybe if i knew them better so I could pick an appropriate avatar....
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor tl;dr
Also, being stuck in a mental block is, well, your own personal, mental issue. Why should programming languages aim to pander to user's own mental problems?
How hard it is to git gud, or find useful peers to get rid of the block? Are you seriously claiming your own incompetence is why Scratch works for you (and hence for most people)?If you're seriously claiming "Scratch is good for most people because I suck", it says more about yourself than the language itself. Maybe you belong to reddit or something.
Wow, that is some serious
-grade reading comprehension you've got going on there...Don't you know one of the golden rules of WTDWTF? Always assuming everyone else didn't read your post before replying to you. Then you're free to behave like the unhinged psychopath you've always dreamed about being one of.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@error said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
that static checks make stuff easier? Or that Python loses them?
I tried to port some Tensorflow code to a Good Language, and the hardest part was figuring out what types the parameters were supposed to be.
Why? It should be clear from either the API or the data, depending on which side of the problem you're working from.
Because even if the API is entirely up to date, some people in the world are just too
to read it.Now with Scratch, you can literally see what the shape of the API is like! Unless you're blind or something.
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I've said it before: Scratch misses the point of itself. Having blocks instead of words changes almost nothing. It's a nice way to teach types, but that's all.
What makes Scratch so much better than "real" programming environments for beginners is the fact that it's actually designed to be easy to understand. There's a small amount of easily discovered and clear functions for input and output: "Draw image in this coordinate" "draw button in this coordinate", "on click trigger this function". There's a space to build your program and a button to run it. And that's all it takes!
Half of programming is knowing "algorithmics", i.e. how to represent what you want to do as logical instructions. This part is unavoidable. The other half is knowing how to interact with the tools (languages, frameworks, build systems). This half is what matters, and it's garbage most of the time.
Imagine a smart person who fully understands imperative programming (even the complex graph search algorithms), but has zero experience with anything else. Imagine them in front of Android Studio trying to figure it out so they can write a simple app.
Well, they'll have to figure out SDKs, emulators, debuggers, Gradle, Maven, Java, XML, inversion of control, classes, interfaces, objects, references, API versions, activities, intents, callbacks, styling, components, repositories, layouts, constraints and UI designers before they can do pretty much anything. And each of those things is designed in an abstruse way that only starts to make sense after you've used it for a month. And he'll need to go to the store to buy another 8GB of RAM just to launch the damn program first!
Oooh but what if Android Studio had little blocks you could drag and drop? OMG problem solved! It's easy now!
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@anonymous234 said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
There's a small amount of easily discovered and clear functions for input and output: "Draw image in this coordinate" "draw button in this coordinate", "on click trigger this function". There's a space to build your program and a button to run it. And that's all it takes!
That's called ActionScript. And people complained about it a lot and a lot, even after AS3.0 with "proper" class-based OO.
And JavaScript does the same too, but in the web. And the result? Everyone says JS is one the worst language ever, and that Scratch is, still, somehow "better".
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@anonymous234 said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
It's a nice way to teach types, but that's all.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? You've got to start somewhere. Did everyone forget the target audience is kids?
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I have fond memories of educational games from my childhood, and the ones that stuck with me the most were the ones that were games first and educational second.
Sim{City|Life|Earth|Ant}, The Incredible Machine, Math Blaster...
Sure, maybe I didn't learn a ton from them, but I learned and retained more than from the hardcore learning "games" because I kept playing.
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@error said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@anonymous234 said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
It's a nice way to teach types, but that's all.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? You've got to start somewhere. Did everyone forget the target audience is kids?
Only the OP, but he seems confused that "a toy for kids" is targeted at kids.
761: DFS - explain xkcd
