You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.
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British businesses are planning to microchip their employees
Swedish company Biohax is in talks with a number of UK legal and financial firms to implant staff with the devices which are about the same size as a grain of rice and cost around £150.
"Mr Österlund said he was aware that not everyone would want to have a microchip fitted at first."
...
"... at first."
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He added that 'it was a learning curve' and that if the idea came from a government he understood why people would not want it to happen.
Because if we can't trust the guys we'd elected to ostensibly defend our own interests, of course there's no problem at all with trusting the guys whose one and only aim is "increase shareholder value"...
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@ixvedeusi I don't really think it's a matter of trust, after all these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you without your consent. But seeing as it provides the same utility as an access card, and it's easier to have multiple cards and change them as you switch employers than it is to hope for everyone to support the same chip standard or have multiple copies embedded that you change regularly, I'd stick with the card.
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@Gąska I don't speak foreign.
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@Kian It's funny to contrast this with Meow-Ludo Disco Gamma Meow-Meow.
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@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska I don't speak foreign.
Don't you want to know what love is?
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
after all these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you without your consent
That's what they all say.
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@anonymous234 you can just wear a Faraday glove if you're concerned (these chips tend to be implanted in the hand, so you can use them to open doors and such).
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@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Meow-Ludo Disco Gamma Meow-Meow.
Pokémon names get sillier with each generation
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you
Yet. They will when detectors are put everywhere. And they will be.
We will ask for them ourselves to:
- geotag our selfies
- verify Yelp reviews (and fake them anyway)
- stalk our own kids (and sometimes those of others because... tee-hee-hee... won't even need candy anymore)
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@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska I don't speak foreign.
Just a shitty political meme that gets posted every time the topic of chipping comes up.
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
But seeing as it provides the same utility as an access card, and it's easier to have multiple cards and change them as you switch employers than it is to hope for everyone to support the same chip standard or have multiple copies embedded that you change regularly, I'd stick with the card.
Mainly this. And seeing that we've failed to standardize the system for access cards to the point where I could have one card with multiple accesses, I don't really have that much hope for standardizing on this system for multiple different places (besides, if it is standardized, it should be trivial to put it on a tag/chip that's not injected into your body...).
And it's not like the access card is the only form factor -- if the tag is small enough to be injected into your hand, it's small enough to embed into a bracelet, or a ring or whatever. (And if you really want it injected into your body, go for it.)
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@cvi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
if the tag is small enough to be injected into your hand, it's small enough to embed into a bracelet
The whole idea of injecting a chip is to reasonably ensure that it's really you: the access token is made inseparable from your physical person. You cannot forget or misplace it anymore, and the rather gruesome procedure of removal will discourage some thieves.
I'd expect there is or will be some easily-defeatable measure that invalidates the chip upon person's death or incapacitation, or its physical separation.
Theoretically it'd be impossible to forge it, but just you wait till it prompts you for weekly firmware updates after it turns out anyone with a tampered reader can get a root shell on it.
And holy fsck, I mean after all this is WTDWTF! You're supposed to sneer at all this modern tecknology and tecknohipsters.
... while at the same time helping it to become reality; there isn't any cognitive dissonance whatsoever.
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I did have an opportunity to get a generic chip injected for free at the company 50-year celebration. The main problem was that it was heavily based off future promises ("It could hold your train ticket, imagine just sweeping your hand in front of the reader!") rather than any actual current uses. So it would be early adoption of hardware of which the actual adoption is still unknown. Yeah, I think I'll pass until it's a proven standard tyvm.
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@Zecc said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska I don't speak foreign.
Don't you want to know what love is?
Baby don't hurt me.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I'd expect there is or will be some easily-defeatable measure that invalidates the chip upon person's death or incapacitation, or its physical separation.
Read that as 'decapitation'. I think it still fits.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
The whole idea of injecting a chip is to reasonably ensure that it's really you: the access token is made inseparable from your physical person. You cannot forget or misplace it anymore, and the rather gruesome procedure of removal will discourage some thieves
I'm not worried about it being stolen. What is most likely to happen (because it happens literally all the fucking time) is some dumbshit corporation will forget to secure their data, and get hacked, and suddenly all the chips are worthless because they can be forged at will.
And then what?
You wanted to see me, boss?
Thanks for coming in. We need to revoke the chip in your hand.
wat?
{lop}
WAAAAAAAAAT
It's okay, you still have a few limbs left we can chip.
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Also, I love how these pro-chip assholes all live in Silicon Valley, or some other Californian place.
"You can wave your hand and get on a train or pay for a coffee or open a door!"
the chip barely works through skin, it isn't going to read through a glove
A what?
A glove, asshole. Big piece of clothing that goes over your hand when it's cold.
E_NO_REPRO it's never been cold here. Have you tried taking off the glove?
In sub-zero temperatures with snow blowing. I'm not taking my gloves off in that, let alone multiple times.
But it works in California.
Oh fuck off. {just opens the door his own goddamn self}
Filed under: While looking for "winter" the top autocomplete emoji was
:woman_in_steamy_room:and how did the room get so steamy and sweaty and hot and no-clothes and... umm... urr... the NSFW thread is
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Faraday glove
Aren't smartphone-compatible gloves, the kind with conductive thread woven throughout, already basically this?
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@Gąska Przepraszam pan, to nie rozumiem... Please translate that.
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Of course, chips are going to become obsolete by just having cameras with facial recognition, and a network of such that track you across the city/country/world. This makes duplicating your identity impossible because the system knows where you are, and even who it was that tried to pass for you.
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@BernieTheBernie with or without a 100 page primer on political situation in Poland necessary to understand what this meme is about?
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@Atazhaia said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
The main problem was that it was heavily based off future promises ("It could hold your train ticket, imagine just sweeping your hand in front of the reader!") rather than any actual current uses.
- Meow-Ludo Disco Gamma Meow-Meow
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDM7VU8S3cM
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@Lorne-Kates said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I love how these pro-chip assholes all live in Silicon Valley, or some other Californian place.
Dunno. They say England ain't nothing but the 51st state (
). Is Sweden in California, too?
Or rather silly neckbeard latte yoga pabst kale tecknohipsters are everywhere these days.
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Of course, chips are going to become obsolete by just having cameras with facial recognition, and a network of such that track you across the city/country/world. This makes duplicating your identity impossible because the system knows where you are, and even who it was that tried to pass for you.
How's it deal with black eyes? (a bouncy 10month puppy in the lap can be hazardous...)
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@dcon ... or facial hair, or people who look alike, or wearing a Richard Nixon mask, etc.
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Of course, chips are going to become obsolete by just having cameras with facial recognition
Because that's working so well.
Facial recognition tech used by UK police is making a ton of mistakes
South Wales Police, London's Met and Leicestershire have all been trialling automated facial recognition in public places. But a lack of legal oversight exists around the technology
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/technology/amazon-aclu-facial-recognition-congress.html
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@hungrier said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@dcon ... or facial hair, or people who look alike, or wearing a Richard Nixon mask, etc.
Obviously, the system is tracking you continuously, and can use other markers to keep identities straight. If you put on a Nixon mask, it knew who you were before you put it on, and so can update to know you are the one wearing the mask as you move around. If you enter a secluded alley, and another person with your same build, clothes, etc came out but with the mask, it will know that either you are still in the alley (and a drone will be dispatched to check that blind spot shortly) or you are that person.
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
just wear a Faraday glove
Anybody up to retrofit my Complicators gloves with a Farraday enhancement?
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I don't really think it's a matter of trust, after all these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you without your consent.
This reminds me of all the tiny bugs and GPS trackers you see on TV where they work indefinitely and in tunnels and buildings and in the middle of nowhere.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I'd expect there is or will be some easily-defeatable measure that invalidates the chip upon person's death or incapacitation, or its physical separation.
There isn't. Straight from Biohax International -- yes, that's the name of the company -- this is a NFC/RFID chip. Specifically a NTAG216, which is about as dumb as these things get (you can get them in sticker form pretty much anywhere). There is a password for encryption, but apparently (I'm not an expert, so correct me if I'm wrong) it's transmitted in plain text. I'm also not entirely sure how it would protect against replay attacks...
Theoretically it'd be impossible to forge it, but just you wait till it prompts you for weekly firmware updates after it turns out anyone with a tampered reader can get a root shell on it.
This thing is way too dumb to have any kind of shell. It has like 111 bytes of writable memory, and that's it.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Of course, chips are going to become obsolete by just having cameras with facial recognition
Because that's working so well.
South Wales Police, London's Met and Leicestershire have all been trialling automated facial recognition in public places. But a lack of legal oversight exists around the technology
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/technology/amazon-aclu-facial-recognition-congress.html
Those systems are supposed to have mostly false positives. If there's 1M people, and you can pick the 0.5% that looks the most like your target(s), you've just narrowed it down to 5,000 suspects that you can afford to check manually.
"92 per cent of matches were incorrect" just scares people who don't know that's how probabilities work.
Amazon itself uses the same percentage in one facial recognition example on its site describing matching an employee’s face with a work ID badge. But Ms. Lindsey said Amazon recommended that police departments use a much higher similarity score — 95 percent — to reduce the likelihood of erroneous matches.
There's also a massive difference between "matching a huge group of people to a smaller group of people" and "matching one person to one person". If I found a misplaced ID card, the probability that I also happen to look enough like that guy is tiny.
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@Atazhaia said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I did have an opportunity to get a generic chip injected for free
I'm not sure we're quite agreeing on who should be paying whom for this to happen.
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@cvi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
This thing is way too dumb to have any kind of shell. It has like 111 bytes of writable memory, and that's it.
Ah, brave pioneers. We'll get there. I mean, shirley it isn't any good until it has at least RGB, cryptowallet apps and an antivirus (note: doesn't detect actual viruses like flu or anything).
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A nice attack against those proximity-based keys:
- one radio station next to the real key (or a directional antenna to get it from a longer distance)
- second radio station next to the door / car
- make a relay so they believe they are close
Works on car keys for example.
A technique that allows thieves to silently unlock and drive away cars is getting cheaper and easier than ever.
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@Zecc said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska I don't speak foreign.
Don't you want to know what love is?
I think he's too young for that reference. He might want you to show him.
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@anonymous234 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
There's also a massive difference between "matching a huge group of people to a smaller group of people" and "matching one person to one person". If I found a misplaced ID card, the probability that I also happen to look enough like that guy is tiny.
And how often do you look at people's ID cards (where you know it's really them in the picture!) and it doesn't really look like them to you? Especially when they're a few years old.
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@loopback0 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Zecc said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska I don't speak foreign.
Don't you want to know what love is?
I think he's too young for that reference. He might want you to show him.
He might be, but if you guys aren't then I'm not either. But I'm also not foreign like you guys, so I suspect that @pie_flavor is correct.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Theoretically it'd be impossible to forge it, but just you wait till it prompts you for weekly firmware updates after it turns out anyone with a tampered reader can get a root shell on it.
Well, we could come up with a list of security characteristics a chip like that could have to be actually secure (formally verified software, for starters), but we all know the companies making them or pushing them wouldn't give a crap.
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@boomzilla I meant @Zecc's reference. Fuck knows what the Polish thing is.
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@loopback0 ah, right.
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@boomzilla I see you took some time to think things over.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
until it has at least RGB, cryptowallet apps and an antivirus
"Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can."
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@No_1 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
until it has at least RGB, cryptowallet apps and an antivirus
"Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can."
And most of common lisp?
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@anonymous234 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
formally verified software, for starters
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@loopback0 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I think he's too young for that reference. He might want you to show him.
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@Lorne-Kates said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Also, I love how these pro-chip assholes all live in Silicon Valley, or some other Californian place.
"You can wave your hand and get on a train or pay for a coffee or open a door!"
the chip barely works through skin, it isn't going to read through a glove
A what?
A glove, asshole. Big piece of clothing that goes over your hand when it's cold.
E_NO_REPRO it's never been cold here. Have you tried taking off the glove?
In sub-zero temperatures with snow blowing. I'm not taking my gloves off in that, let alone multiple times.
But it works in California.
Oh fuck off. {just opens the door his own goddamn self}
Filed under: While looking for "winter" the top autocomplete emoji was
:woman_in_steamy_room:and how did the room get so steamy and sweaty and hot and no-clothes and... umm... urr... the NSFW thread isThere's a clear solution to that. Just have heated bike handles.
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@anonymous234 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
formally verified software, for starters
There already are RFID microchips which implement security seriously: the ones used in credit cards. Because if the security is broken, banks have to spend money dealing with fraudulent transactions, and they hate that.
But if your subcutaneous microchip gets hacked, you're the one who will have to deal with the mess, so expect them to be based on NodeJS and the cheapest hardware you can find in Shenzhen.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
They say England ain't nothing but the 51st state
Nah, these days if you're America + 1, then you'd be the 87th Federal Subject of Russia.
Filed under: Guess who's #86.
