Mr. Jetson teaches network technology



  • @erufael found masochist!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @gąska hey, I didnt say I would ever do it. I just said it was possible. xD


  • kills Dumbledore

    @jbert said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @gąska You likely need to add the site to your hosts file anyway as any reverse proxy on the site's web hosting will require the browser to send a Host: header to target the right virtual host.

    Not just the Host header but also the SNI extension if the Web server is using SSL and doing name-based virtual hosting.



  • @dkf said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @ben_lubar said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    it's a server that uses double quotes for strings

    That's properly wrong (they're really supposed to be the kind of quotes around identifiers that you use when you've got a name that would otherwise be illegal), but are often accepted anyway. Probably because of MySQL; that's been the PHP of databases for a long time, and the other engines put up with it because that's the path of least resistance overall…

    I seem to recall that MS Access would accept them as well, which seems... odd, given that Access doesn't (or didn't, in Access 97) really do stored procedures in the same sense as other SQL systems (it had stored queries, of a sort, but IIRC they were actually auto-generated VBA code snippets in the same way that the screen-builder forms were), and most SQL strings are using VBA strings (and yes, I am saying that SQL injection is the SOP in the Access world, or it was at one point). Since VBA uses double quotes for its own strings, you'd have to go out of your way to pass a double-quoted interned string to the nightmare that is the 'JET Engine'.

    However, one could argue that, even more the MySQL or SQLlite, Access is a fucking abomination unto SQL. Now, given that SQL itself bears the same abominable relationship to DB2 (or rather, its predecessor SEQUEL), which in turn does the same to Codd's rules and relational theory, one could reasonable describe Access (and MySQL and SQLlite) as the computer equivalent to the product of three generations of in-breeding and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, which frankly would explain a lot about them.



  • [An entire section on the workings of WINS.]
    NOTE! WINS is used in older networks. In modern networks with Windows Server 2000 and later DNS is used instead. WINS does not need to be installed on those.

    Did I mention this book was published in 2013? If I didn't: This book was published in 2013.

    On each router hop [TTL] is reduced by one. When it is zero the packet is erased. No error message is returned.

    If you want more than two devices to be able to communicate [wireless] with each other you need an access point.

    He also talks about 802.11a and 802.11h like they are in any way relevant. 802.11n? What's that?

    The Command Prompt works like "good old" DOS.

    I don't think the target audience of this book are old enough to know how DOS works, or even what it is. Also, he should really write the names of the commands in all lowercase. The font used in the book means I can't tell if it's IPconfig or LPconfig that's written.



  • @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    On each router hop [TTL] is reduced by one. When it is zero the packet is erased. No error message is returned.

    I'm always amused by this point. I mean, yes, each router does reduce the TTL by one (normally, except in some exotic types of router), BUT, we call it a "TIME to live" because it is supposed to be reduced by one for each whole second that the packet sits festering in a router. (In IPv6, this isn't true, and it is called "hop limit" rather than TTL.)

    And there is, indeed, an error message when the packet is dropped. That message is the essential part of how traceroute works - the router that drops the packet sends back an ICMP "Time Exceeded" message to say that it did so, and the traceroute program reports the identity of the router.



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    And there is, indeed, an error message when the packet is dropped. That message is the essential part of how traceroute works - the router that drops the packet sends back an ICMP "Time Exceeded" message to say that it did so, and the traceroute program reports the identity of the router.

    And yes, it's stuff like this that makes me question the books. I know that there is an error returned and I know that's the base for traceroute, but the author seems oblivious to the fact. The following paragraph in the book even goes into what traceroute does and how to use it. But not how it works.

    The author also seems to love going into depth in what he knows while glossing over anything else. DHCP gets an adequate mention about function (although I'd have wanted some more technical details). DNS gets page after page on the workings and how to configure your own DNS entires and everything. What I call way too much details, and as a bonus so confusingly written that I get confused about reading about the stuff I already know.



  • @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    This book is written based off the most used network operating system, Windows Server 2008.

    Well, it does have a massive market share advantage in on-premise installs, probably just needs clarified. As of numbers for August 16, it still had nearly double the market share that 2012 had. It just doesn't have much of a market share anywhere else (Cloud, Virtual servers, devices, and so on). Funny enough I also teach IT in the UK at times (second job at FE level) and did this last year with 2 different classes.

    Otherwise this is a mix of more or less accurate information in dumbed down format or just plain wrong. As teaching resources go, it's actually not that bad. That hurts to say, tbh. I've seen much, much worse.



  • I changed subject slightly, to Computer and Network Technology (2012 edition).

    Blue-Ray

    The largest difference between Pentium 4 and Pentium 3...

    It's 2012. We don't need to know the difference between 10 year old hardware! It's irrelevant! Also, I am ignoring all the other obsoleted tech mentioned like they still are relevant, like FSB and FireWire.

    • DDR [Description]
    • DDR HyperX [Description]

    Good job not being able to tell the difference between a memory standard and a brand name for a product using said memory standard.

    L2-cache previously existed as special memory circuits on the motherboard but is nowadays built into the CPU. This has led to secondary cache memory now being called L3-cache.

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    Oh, well. Time for lunch. Then we can dig into the chapter about Operating System Linux. Although I may switch to the 2017 edition for that chapter, as that chapter is freely available on the publisher's site, because it couldn't fit in the printed book apparently.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    because it couldn't fit in the printed book apparently.

    Oh Lord, that's not a good sign.



  • @heterodox said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Oh Lord, that's not a good sign.

    I mean, it's not like the rest was particularly confidence inspiring.



  • @atazhaia The largest difference between Pentium 4 and Pentium 3...

    Bear in mind that the process for moving from "writing a book" to "publishing a book" is usually about 1-3 years. In 2010 the P4 was old but still fairly common in business and older machines. Fairly sure the last ones came out in 2006?

    Teaching people how hardware has advanced isn't exactly a bad thing.

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    IIRC in 2010 I was running a 19inch monitor from Hannspree, 1680x1050 which qualifies it as WSXGA, but still, by 2010 widescreens were already in the majority so no excuse there. They had been since maybe 2008?



  • Now, as a preface to the Linux chapter I should mention that Mr. Jetson appears to be a Windows person. Everything he writes is all about Windows and Windows Server. Although he still thinks it's important to learn more than one OS so he does have a chapter about Linux, although not as in-depth as the Windows one. I shall read from the latest edition, as the Linux chapter is freely available.

    The distro used is Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. This is a key point. Also, mentioned once. Otherwise it's called "Linux Ubuntu 14" throughout the rest of the chapter.

    Some more-or-less objective facts about Linux:

    • ++ Networking (especially TCP/IP) integrated into the OS
    • ++ Working multitasking
    • ++ Working multi-user system
    • ++ POSIX compability
    • ++ Source code available for almost anything
    • ++ Stability, Linux hardly ever crashes
    • ++ Linux is continuously under development
    • ++ Linux has free editions!
    • -- Less user-friendly than Windows (but better now than it previously was)
    • -- Less and poorer commercial programs for home use than Windows
    • -- Harder to install hardware than in Windows
    • -- Third parties rarely support Linux, but they are getting better

    Some of these bullet points are kinda silly. Multitasking is not exactly a major feature seeing as pretty much every major OS has been multitasking for a couple decades or more. Also, hardware is hit-and-miss. Some hardware (like the office printer) I found way easier to install in Linux, but it's very much YMMV. Also, one of the negative points seems especially designed to ignore the free programs of equal quality to said commercial programs. Oh, well.

    Examples of GNU software is KDE, GNOME, Apache, Samba, etc.

    Orly?

    We're using Ubuntu in version 14.04 which is the latest LTS version when this book was written (may 2014). ... When the new version is available we'll update this book.

    So, the previous edition of the book was the 2014 edition. The current edition is the 2017 edition. So, some time to update the book to use Ubuntu 16.04. Or at least this chapter, as it's not even in the book so it doesn't have to be released along with the book. Whatever.

    Note! If you want to run Xubuntu instead (a version with only text mode, that is without graphics)

    TIL that Xfce is a text-based environment. That's some very good ASCII art they're using!

    If you want several OS on your harddrive it's important that you put Linux on the first harddrive because BIOS can't see more than the first 1023 first sectors on the harddrives, which is about 512MB.

    undefined

    Windows uses the file system FAT32 or NTFS

    You still running a bunch of old Win9x computers, Mr. Jetson?

    [The boot partition] does not have to be large, it can be put on a floppy which you then boot from.

    I would like to see him put the Ubuntu 14.04 /boot on a floppy.

    [Instructions on using the Ubuntu multiboot installer in Windows, for a dualboot system.]

    undefined

    The graphical environment in Linux is called X (but some say X-Windows).

    By some do you mean yourself? You seem to like to use words that are not in common use.

    The graphical environment ( called X ) has many similarities with Windows. [Screenshot of Ubuntu with Unity.]

    You should really look up the difference between X and a complete desktop environment.

    Explanation of some common folders

    • /bin Binaries, this contains binary executable files. This contains the most common programs you use, for example commands. There is also a directory calles /sbin, only root can access the commands in this directory. In /usr/bin there are also programs. If you want to access all commands under one and the same path you can move all of them to /bin. The contents of /bin is Linux specific, meaning it exists on all distributions while /usr/bin is Fedora specific. If you then add your own programs those often end up under /usr/local/bin which means those programs becomes user-specific.
    • /boot The folder /boot contains all boot files. For example the GRUB bootloader.
    • /dev dev is for devices, like for example printers, ports, harddrives, graphics cards, soundcards, that is drivers pointing towards the hardware.
    • /etc A very important directory containing all configuration files in regular text format. You can edit these files with for example nano which is a text editor.
    • /home Here are all the home directories to the users created. The users can then save their work in this directory. If you for example create the user jetson his home directory will be /home/jetson.
    • /lib Library, here are all the library files and system files used by Linux.
    • /media Contains shortcuts to CD-ROM and Floppy.
    • /mnt If you mount a floppy/CD-disc or other removable device (USB memory) you can choose to mount it in this directory. You can mount in any directory but this is standard for this purpose. Mounting removable devices is no longer necessary in the graphical environment but if you only work in text mode it's still needed.
    • /proc In this folder are the kernel files and other for the system important files. You should not touch anything in this directory if not fully confident in what you're doing.
    • /root Home directory for the root user.
    • /sbin This directory has been previously mentioned and contains program files only accessible as the root user.
    • /sys Contains various system files.
    • /tmp Used for storing temporary files. NOTE! some programs use this directory while running so be careful when clearing it.
    • /usr Here are most big programs and here most programs are placed when installed. If you do not know where the program you just installed ended up you can start looking in this directory. Most programs downloaded over the internet is in so called RPM format and when installed almost always places itself in this directory.
    • /var Here are temporary files, spool files and most system logs which are used when troubleshooting the system. An example is /var/log/meassages which you can look in when an error has occurred.
    • /lost+found Here are files which the source can't be found for.

    Oh boy. This explanation is... special. Bonus points for anyone pointing out everything wrong in it? This is also the complete explanation. I did not leave anything out from it (although Mr. Jetson did). Do note that despite using Ubuntu he says that programs are downloaded as RPM. Yeah... Also, I did not misspell the path for the log file, it was copied as-is.



  • @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    You can edit these files with for example nano which is a text editor.

    +1 for not perpetuating the mistaken idea that vi is in any way acceptable.



  • If you open the file /etc/passwd and look at a user you can see what shell a user is using, most common is /bin/bash is the shell. ... You change shell for the user by editing the files /etc/passwd and choose a shell for the user for example /bin/bash2 on the end of the line.

    Feels a bit undefined seeing as there is a utility built for this purpose.

    If you want to mount a device at computer start you can add a command line at the end of the file /etc/rc.d/rc.local or in the file /etc/fstab.

    First suggestion also feels undefined as fstab is the intended place for it.

    Because large programs only should be placed in one place in the filesystem and not spread everywhere you should be careful with what you copy. A common mistake many does is thinking that the programs they want to run must be placed in their home directory. They copy home the programs and start wasting diskspace. Instead of copying large files you can create links to those. A link is a kind of pointer to a file (or directory) which unlike the file it's pointing to, takes very little space.

    undefined Also, is this really a common problem?

    ...output from one program can become input in another program. This is done by using pipes.

    Now, an explanation of this. Pipe in english can mean both the kind used for transporting fluids over distances and the kind used for smoking tobacco and others. In swedish those are completely different words. Guess which swedish word he used? If you guessed the kind used for smoking, you are correct.

    cat is an abbreviation of catenate

    I think you a few letters there.

    Most Linux distributions use a system called System V to boot.

    So most Linux dists boot a completely different OS? That was news to me! (I figured that what he's referring to is init, which has its roots in the System V boot process. Confusion extraordinaire.)

    Four formats of program distribution for Linux

    • Binary format (ready program files) in RPM package
    • Source code format in SRPM package (source code RPM, SRPM package)
    • Binary format (ready program files) packaged with tar.gz
    • Source code format as packaged files with tar.gz

    Apparently, these are the only four ways to obtain programs on Linux. Also, I still find it amazing that he hasn't realized that Ubuntu doesn't use RPM for package management despite using it at a more advanced level, as well as him showing how to use apt from the command line.

    So, there. Some nuggets of information about Ubuntu Linux as taught by Mr. Jetson. What? You're reminding me I started this out writing it as Linux Ubuntu? Well, I'm just staying consistent with the source...



  • @thegoryone said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    IIRC in 2010 I was running a 19inch monitor from Hannspree, 1680x1050 which qualifies it as WSXGA, but still, by 2010 widescreens were already in the majority so no excuse there. They had been since maybe 2008?

    Pfft. I bought my first 1680x1050 panel in 2007 or so, in PC World, ffs, and it was (a) only 150 pounds and (b) 22 inches.



  • @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    If you want several OS on your harddrive it's important that you put Linux on the first harddrive because BIOS can't see more than the first 1023 first sectors on the harddrives, which is about 512MB.

    This is stupid, but not as stupid as it seems. It only sounds stupid if you don't remember the living fucking hell of the 504mb limit issue. I didn't see this until 2005 by which time it was well in the past and I'd been tasked at work to investigate an old, old, old PC which was having issues. I ended up not being able to fix it but since it wasn't mission critical, we just scapped it. All I really remember was being ready to toss the bloody thing out a 5th story window.

    It's still stupid because that wasn't even an issue anymore in like 1998 never fucking mind 2014 for the most part and doesn't need to be in a book about Ubuntu 14.



  • @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Examples of GNU software is KDE, GNOME, Apache, Samba, etc.

    Well, technically those are all mostly-userland software... but that means something rather different in Linux...

    We're using Ubuntu in version 14.04 which is the latest LTS version when this book was written (may 2014). ... When the new version is available we'll update this book.

    So, the previous edition of the book was the 2014 edition. The current edition is the 2017 edition. So, some time to update the book to use Ubuntu 16.04. Or at least this chapter, as it's not even in the book so it doesn't have to be released along with the book. Whatever.

    TBF, it can take a lot longer than a year to update a book. However, given the rest of what you have shown, I a skeptical about how much updating it has had since the first edition... which I am guessing was in 1998.

    Note! If you want to run Xubuntu instead (a version with only text mode, that is without graphics)

    TIL that Xfce is a text-based environment. That's some very good ASCII art they're using!

    Meh, it's not as dumb a mistake as it sounds; a lot of people who use shell most of the time and only bring up X for games, or who want a 'headless' server but still need to ssh -X into it from time to time (as is common for some multi-server installations) and are too lazy to work out how to do it correctly, Xubuntu makes for a low-overhead shortcut. To someone unfamiliar with Linux, especially someone who (despite trying to teach networking on Ubunutu 14.04 LTS) appears to have formed his opinions of both Linux and Windows some time before 1999, I can see why they would misread this technique, especially if that was the explanation given to them. Seeing it in a textbook is just depressing, but still, I've seen much worse.

    If you want several OS on your harddrive it's important that you put Linux on the first harddrive because BIOS can't see more than the first 1023 first sectors on the harddrives, which is about 512MB.

    undefined

    OK, push that '1999' back to '1995', then. That's just sad, really.

    Windows uses the file system FAT32 or NTFS

    You still running a bunch of old Win9x computers, Mr. Jetson?

    Probably. Then again, if you watch some of Vissago's videos about the sort of net-connected crap he's found, you'd know that quite a few of those were Win98, and one power plant had a an unsecured VPN running on Windows 95. BTW, that was from a 2016 video, IIRC. He's also found MS-DOS 6.22 systems on the Internet unsecured, also in 2016...

    "It's Fine," They Said. "Just Ship It," They Said. – [57:25..1:13:28] 1:13:28
    — Dartmouth

    One suspects that this textbook is exacerbating both the continued retention of Win9x, and the occurrence of unsecured VPNs. Just a guess. But I digress.

    [The boot partition] does not have to be large, it can be put on a floppy which you then boot from.

    I would like to see him put the Ubuntu 14.04 /boot on a floppy.

    I doubt most of the students using the 2017 version of the book will have ever seen a 3.5" floppy disk or FDD in person.

    Also, I am pretty sure even LILO wouldn't have fit on a floppy by 1997. Grub Legacy can be squeezed onto one, actually, but it wasn't worth the trouble for Linux as you'd still need a larger disk for the actual OS (it is sometimes done on OSDev.org, where a lot of people start off using an emulated floppy because it is much easier to deal with doing LBA calculations to access an emulated HDD on the first go). I don't think Grub 2.0 will do that, but I CBA to check.

    The graphical environment in Linux is called X (but some say X-Windows).
    By some do you mean yourself? You seem to like to use words that are not in common use.

    To be fair, in the days when you could boot Linux from a floppy - you know, 1993 or so, before X11 had even been ported to Linux - a lot of people called it that; it was easy to troll SunOS, HP/UX, and Ultrix neckbeards with that, who would inevitably tell you that it is actually "X Window System", and then blow a fuse when someone would say, "yeah, X-Windows". Because undefined try is eternal. Hell, the anger this elicited even got mentioned in UHHB all the way back in 1989.



  • @scholrlea said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Also, I am pretty sure even LILO wouldn't have fit on a floppy by 1997

    I don't remember all the details anymore but sometime in the late 90s or early 2000s I got some version of Linux that used a handful of floppies (to load a CD driver I think), and IIRC it had LILO on one of them


  • area_deu

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Pipe in english can mean both the kind used for transporting fluids over distances and the kind used for smoking tobacco and others. In swedish those are completely different words. Guess which swedish word he used? If you guessed the kind used for smoking, you are correct.

    Reminds me of the time I saw the error message "Broken pipe" translated into German... "Röhre ist gebrochen" ("Tube is broken") just makes you forget all about the problem for a few seconds XD


  • area_deu

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @thegoryone said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    IIRC in 2010 I was running a 19inch monitor from Hannspree, 1680x1050 which qualifies it as WSXGA, but still, by 2010 widescreens were already in the majority so no excuse there. They had been since maybe 2008?

    Pfft. I bought my first 1680x1050 panel in 2007 or so, in PC World, ffs, and it was (a) only 150 pounds and (b) 22 inches.

    Ah yes back then monitors were still quite heavy



  • @akko said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @thegoryone said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    IIRC in 2010 I was running a 19inch monitor from Hannspree, 1680x1050 which qualifies it as WSXGA, but still, by 2010 widescreens were already in the majority so no excuse there. They had been since maybe 2008?

    Pfft. I bought my first 1680x1050 panel in 2007 or so, in PC World, ffs, and it was (a) only 150 pounds and (b) 22 inches.

    Ah yes back then monitors were still quite heavy

    Ha ha, yes, got me. The worst part is that my keyboard has the £ symbol without using AltGr (Shift+$). Sigh.

    That said, I still remember starting a new job in 1995 and being presented with a 21 inch CRT monitor that had careful instructions on extracting it from the box:

    • Turn the box "top down".
    • Open the bottom of the box.
    • Turn the box right-side up with the bottom flaps folded back.
    • Lift the box off the monitor.

    The idea being that you didn't have to try to lift a 70 lb monitor out of its box. The box itself wasn't light, but it wasn't nearly as heavy as the monitor.


  • area_deu

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @akko said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @thegoryone said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    IIRC in 2010 I was running a 19inch monitor from Hannspree, 1680x1050 which qualifies it as WSXGA, but still, by 2010 widescreens were already in the majority so no excuse there. They had been since maybe 2008?

    Pfft. I bought my first 1680x1050 panel in 2007 or so, in PC World, ffs, and it was (a) only 150 pounds and (b) 22 inches.

    Ah yes back then monitors were still quite heavy

    Ha ha, yes, got me. The worst part is that my keyboard has the £ symbol without using AltGr (Shift+$). Sigh.

    That said, I still remember starting a new job in 1995 and being presented with a 21 inch CRT monitor that had careful instructions on extracting it from the box:

    • Turn the box "top down".
    • Open the bottom of the box.
    • Turn the box right-side up with the bottom flaps folded back.
    • Lift the box off the monitor.

    The idea being that you didn't have to try to lift a 70 lb monitor out of its box. The box itself wasn't light, but it wasn't nearly as heavy as the monitor.

    Heh I have to admit, my experience with CRTs is mostly second-hand. By the time I got into computers flat screens were already affordable enough that my first monitor was a 15 (I think) inch 1024x768ish flat panel (a used one that had a bit of an overheating problem). We did have a huge CRT TV though, and that thing was massive... I'm glad I didn't have one of those on my desk XD



  • @gurth said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @pie_flavor said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @gąska You would just google for their IP addresses.

    Better yet: someone could publish a big book in which you look up their name and address, and learn the IP address.

    someones done that:
    [link text]https://www.amazon.de/Data-Becker-Die-besten-Internetadressen/dp/3815861659(link url)



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    That said, I still remember starting a new job in 1995 and being presented with a 21 inch CRT monitor that had careful instructions on extracting it from the box:

    • Turn the box "top down".
    • Open the bottom of the box.
    • Turn the box right-side up with the bottom flaps folded back.
    • Lift the box off the monitor.

    Sometimes it's just easier to do it that way anyway. When I got the case for my computer a few years ago, I did it like that, lifting the box off the case, rather than pulling the case up out of the box.



  • The largest difference between Pentium 4 and Pentium 3...

    If one is going to do history, then it should include the differences between RTL, DTL, and TTL.....



  • @akko said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @akko said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @thegoryone said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Standard resolution for 17" and 19" LCD screens is SXGA, 1280x1024.

    IIRC in 2010 I was running a 19inch monitor from Hannspree, 1680x1050 which qualifies it as WSXGA, but still, by 2010 widescreens were already in the majority so no excuse there. They had been since maybe 2008?

    Pfft. I bought my first 1680x1050 panel in 2007 or so, in PC World, ffs, and it was (a) only 150 pounds and (b) 22 inches.

    Ah yes back then monitors were still quite heavy

    Ha ha, yes, got me. The worst part is that my keyboard has the £ symbol without using AltGr (Shift+$). Sigh.

    That said, I still remember starting a new job in 1995 and being presented with a 21 inch CRT monitor that had careful instructions on extracting it from the box:

    • Turn the box "top down".
    • Open the bottom of the box.
    • Turn the box right-side up with the bottom flaps folded back.
    • Lift the box off the monitor.

    The idea being that you didn't have to try to lift a 70 lb monitor out of its box. The box itself wasn't light, but it wasn't nearly as heavy as the monitor.

    Heh I have to admit, my experience with CRTs is mostly second-hand. By the time I got into computers flat screens were already affordable enough that my first monitor was a 15 (I think) inch 1024x768ish flat panel (a used one that had a bit of an overheating problem). We did have a huge CRT TV though, and that thing was massive... I'm glad I didn't have one of those on my desk XD

    Up until 2007, I had 3 21" ViewSonics on the desk, and 3 more 19" suspended from the ceiling. The weight factor in that setup was a big challenge.





  • @thecpuwizard said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    The largest difference between Pentium 4 and Pentium 3...

    If one is going to do history, then it should include the differences between RTL, DTL, and TTL.....

    I know right to left, but how do down to left and top to left work?



  • @hungrier said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @thecpuwizard said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    The largest difference between Pentium 4 and Pentium 3...

    If one is going to do history, then it should include the differences between RTL, DTL, and TTL.....

    I know right to left, but how do down to left and top to left work?



  • The alt-text for today's XKCD seems to fit here (I'm including the strip for context). Why? Because it is clear that Mr. Jetson needs a bit more Impostor Syndrome, or a bit less Dunning-Kruger, or both.

    alt-text: "It's actually worst in people who study the Dunning–Kruger effect. We tried to organize a conference on it, but the only people who would agree to give the keynote were random undergrads."


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @pie_flavor said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    the only one you really need is Google's

    False, because each and every one of the URLs in any page from then on will have DNS names and not IP addresses.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @scholrlea said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    SunOS, HP/UX, and Ultrix neckbeards

    0_1518590426243_511c098b-bbab-45c0-8073-adc42f15ca94-image.png

    WTF with that underlining though.... I blame.... (spins wheel) Chrome!



  • @tsaukpaetra said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @scholrlea said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    SunOS, HP/UX, and Ultrix neckbeards

    0_1518590426243_511c098b-bbab-45c0-8073-adc42f15ca94-image.png

    WTF with that underlining though.... I blame.... (spins wheel) Chrome!

    You should. Looks fine in Palemoon:
    0_1518594422943_Capture.PNG

    Ignore the general blurriness and shit, I'm using my laptop with a 4k screen again. It looks fine actually displayed...



  • @thegoryone said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    If you want several OS on your harddrive it's important that you put Linux on the first harddrive because BIOS can't see more than the first 1023 first sectors on the harddrives, which is about 512MB.

    This is stupid, but not as stupid as it seems. It only sounds stupid if you don't remember the living fucking hell of the 504mb limit issue. I didn't see this until 2005 by which time it was well in the past and I'd been tasked at work to investigate an old, old, old PC which was having issues. I ended up not being able to fix it but since it wasn't mission critical, we just scapped it. All I really remember was being ready to toss the bloody thing out a 5th story window.

    It's still stupid because that wasn't even an issue anymore in like 1998 never fucking mind 2014 for the most part and doesn't need to be in a book about Ubuntu 14.

    There's a new version of this issue, of course. Fortunately, the people who took my order for a new computer knew more than I did about it.

    What I ordered:

    • List of parts that aren't important here.
    • Windows 10 OEM
    • 3TB hard disk.

    They called me to query this because (they said - I haven't verified it) Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT (bigger than 2TB) disk. So they modified the order to use the same brand and "product range" of 2TB disk, and everyone involved was happy. Good crew, but I don't think they ship outside France.



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT

    Iirc, Windows wont boot off a GPT disk if your computer uses BIOS. On an EFI system, Windows have no problems booting from a GPT disk. Actually, Windows wants you to use GPT nowadays if your computer is EFI from what I recall.



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT (bigger than 2TB) disk

    Definitely a load of crap, it's quite happy with 4TB GPT disks from experience. I suspect it was a non-UEFI motherboard and the disk was actually MBR, hence the 2TB limit which is a thing for MBR not GPT.



  • @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT

    Iirc, Windows wont boot off a GPT disk if your computer uses BIOS. On an EFI system, Windows have no problems booting from a GPT disk. Actually, Windows wants you to use GPT nowadays if your computer is EFI from what I recall.

    Ah, OK. I get a brief look at a BIOS-like POST result during pre-boot, and a little bit of rooting around on Goggle reveals that the motherboard is, indeed, UEFI-capable (MSI Raider X299). Ho hum. I'd rather have them deliver something that works (and a 2TB disk is definitely big enough, for a few more days, anyway) than mess about with something that's fragile as fuck or something.



  • @steve_the_cynic I'd be very surprised finding a BIOS motherboard using any current chipset. EFI was already on the way in when I got my computer in 2010, so mine would be one of the last generations that were running BIOS. All consumer hardware nowadays is EFI, and all harddrives running on EFI systems should be using GPT.



  • @blakeyrat said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    To connect your own network directly to the internet you need to apply with InterNIC to be granted one or several IP addresses.

    Correct, but incomplete-- strangely omits that you can just rent an IP address from someone else who has one. (I'm assuming in 2012, IPv6 wasn't popular enough to be worth talking about.)

    The last part is hard to say, but I'll just note that for the last year and a bit (i.e. since 23 December 2016), I have had a /56 IPv6 prefix at home, and therefore I have been renting 4722366482869645213696 IPv6 addresses. I think that's enough for all the computers I have.



  • @cursorkeys said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT (bigger than 2TB) disk

    Definitely a load of crap, it's quite happy with 4TB GPT disks from experience. I suspect it was a non-UEFI motherboard and the disk was actually MBR, hence the 2TB limit which is a thing for MBR not GPT.

    I guess it might be just a case of them knowing how to set up disks with MBR, but not with GPT. And my point about preferring that they deliver something that works still stands.



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @cursorkeys said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT (bigger than 2TB) disk

    Definitely a load of crap, it's quite happy with 4TB GPT disks from experience. I suspect it was a non-UEFI motherboard and the disk was actually MBR, hence the 2TB limit which is a thing for MBR not GPT.

    I guess it might be just a case of them knowing how to set up disks with MBR, but not with GPT. And my point about preferring that they deliver something that works still stands.

    Well, the mighty Goggle pointed me at a handy, concise, and CLEAR page on Intel's website that explains how to persuade Windows 10 CU or later to switch its infrastructure from MBR to GPT without nuking the disk and reinstalling. That makes me happy.



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    And my point about preferring that they deliver something that works still stands.

    Oh definitely 🙂

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    I guess it might be just a case of them knowing how to set up disks with MBR, but not with GPT

    If you're interested in checking which one they used it's quite easy, open a cmd prompt and type:

    diskpart
    list disk

    You'll get a response like this that shows asterisks by the disks that are GPT:

    Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.16299.15
    
    Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.
    On computer: ###deleted###
    
    DISKPART> list disk
    
      Disk ###  Status         Size     Free     Dyn  Gpt
      --------  -------------  -------  -------  ---  ---
      Disk 0    Online          931 GB      0 B
      Disk 1    Offline        5589 GB      0 B        *
      Disk 2    Online           55 GB    55 GB
      Disk 3    Offline        5589 GB      0 B        *
      Disk 4    Online         5589 GB      0 B        *
    
    DISKPART>
    


  • @cursorkeys Thanks. I'll take a look at that tonight. (The Intel page I mentioned showed a GUI-style method for finding the same information.)



  • @tsaukpaetra said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    WTF with that underlining though.... I blame.... (spins wheel) Chrome!

    It's not a bug, it's a feature!

    @deadfast said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    You should. Looks fine in Palemoon:

    Nope, that's a single dotted underline. Spec calls for a double dotted underline.

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT (bigger than 2TB) disk.

    That hasn't been true since Windows Vista. If you're using BIOS, then the bootloader won't be able to see any partition beyond the 2TB boundary (sector #(2 ^ 32 - 1)) but provided Windows is within that space you're good.

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows wont boot off a GPT disk if your computer uses BIOS.

    Fixed in Windows 7.



  • @twelvebaud said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    Windows 10 won't boot off a GPT (bigger than 2TB) disk.

    That hasn't been true since Windows Vista. If you're using BIOS, then the bootloader won't be able to see any partition beyond the 2TB boundary (sector #(2 ^ 32 - 1)) but provided Windows is within that space you're good.

    As discussed above. And that's what they told me, not a statement of reality.



  • @steve_the_cynic said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @blakeyrat said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    To connect your own network directly to the internet you need to apply with InterNIC to be granted one or several IP addresses.

    Correct, but incomplete-- strangely omits that you can just rent an IP address from someone else who has one. (I'm assuming in 2012, IPv6 wasn't popular enough to be worth talking about.)

    The last part is hard to say, but I'll just note that for the last year and a bit (i.e. since 23 December 2016), I have had a /56 IPv6 prefix at home, and therefore I have been renting 4722366482869645213696 IPv6 addresses. I think that's enough for all the computers I have.

    For now. IoT will take care of that.



  • @deadfast +1 for using (what appears to be) Slate, the objectively correct theme.



  • Network Security (2015 edition) by Mr. Jetson
    Again, for the people who think these book were written in the 90s, I can still say no. These books were written in the 2010s, as the courses they are for were introduced in 2011. (Although it is possible he could have lifted material from previous books.)

    In the beginning the NCP, Network Control Protocol, was used. ... 1973 TCP was introduced

    Network Control Program. Network Control Protocol is something different. Also, TCP was introduced in december 1974. (Yeah, yeah, undefined and all that.)

    An example of a program using UDP is Real Audio, with which you transmit and listen to radio over the internet.

    Real undefined

    There was also no rule demanding that users must change passwords regularly (error nr 2).

    YMMV, but I don't like that security practice, as it promotes more use of insecure practices.

    Damn, that book was boring. Was mainly just instructions for setting up specific models of hardware (router, AP, etc.). And configuring Windows Server 2012 as these goddamn books can't keep the version of Windows Server consistent between them. Also, for teaching router setup I'd choose something like pfSense as it can be installed on any computer, or even in a VM. And it's free, unlike setting up Windows Server as a router.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @atazhaia said in Mr. Jetson teaches network technology:

    In the beginning the NCP, Network Control Protocol, was used. ... 1973 TCP was introduced

    NetworkMaster Control Program. Network Control Protocol is something different. Also, TCP was introduced in december 1974. (Yeah, yeah, undefined and all that.)

    FTFT

    An example of a program using UDP is Real Audio, with which you transmit and listen to radio over the internet.

    Real undefined

    Since superseded by Opus.

    There was also no rule demanding that users must change passwords regularly (error nr 2).

    YMMV, but I don't like that security practice, as it promotes more use of insecure practices.

    But... Industry standard!.


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