DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit
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@steve_the_cynic said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
What's weird, though, is that the BIOS comes up on the DVI port, and Windows begins on there, then switches primaryness to the HDMI port.
Not that weird. The Windows setting for primary display is Windows-local; it doesn’t save it to the BIOS or video card firmware.
You might be able to change that setting in your BIOS (well, hopefully UEFI nowadays!) if it really bugs you.
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@unperverted-vixen said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
You might be able to change that setting in your BIOS (well, hopefully UEFI nowadays!) if it really bugs you.
In my case, once I visited my BIOS and didn't change any settings, and now the boot process and Windows logo at startup shows on both screens simultaneously instead of just one. The BIOS shows on both screens at once, too.
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@unperverted-vixen said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
You might be able to change that setting in your BIOS (well, hopefully UEFI nowadays!) if it really bugs you.
I really don't care which it is on or how many times it bounces back and forth during the boot process, so long as the Windows desktop screen 1 is (points) that one, which it is. I just found it a bit weird. The weirdness is more to do with Windows not picking up the BIOS one. But I think I know why, on reflection.
Background: The machine was supplied with just one screen, and with an HDMI cable, and with Windows already installed (but not activated). I connected that up like that, and then added my DVI-connected screen as the second, then powered it all up.
Hypothesis: The BIOS, evidently, prefers DVI to HDMI, but Windows remembered that it was installed with just the HDMI cable installed, and it prefers to leave the primary alone.
And yes, UEFI - the machine isn't yet a month old. (I clicked "Submit order" on Christmas Day, ffs, and it arrived on 3 January.) The last time I got a new motherboard was in 2011, and "BIOS" setup utilities have moved on a bit since then. Browsing the GUI was a pleasant surprise compared to faffing with old-style character menus, and it was amusing to see a picture of the motherboard complete with tooltips showing what is connected (or not) to each port or other connector, including "oh, yeah, and this rear-panel USB port has a such-and-so mouse, and this one a keyboard, and..."
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@steve_the_cynic said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
And yes, UEFI - the machine isn't yet a month old. (I clicked "Submit order" on Christmas Day, ffs, and it arrived on 3 January.) The last time I got a new motherboard was in 2011, and "BIOS" setup utilities have moved on a bit since then. Browsing the GUI was a pleasant surprise compared to faffing with old-style character menus, and it was amusing to see a picture of the motherboard complete with tooltips showing what is connected (or not) to each port or other connector, including "oh, yeah, and this rear-panel USB port has a such-and-so mouse, and this one a keyboard, and..."
One of the things that will be nice when I upgrade my main computer is that I will be rid of BIOS. The longest part of the boot process is it going through POST and figuring what hardware is connected. Feel a bit bad when my i7 Extreme powerhouse gets beaten by a Pentium just because of that.
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@atazhaia said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The longest part of the boot process is it going through POST and figuring what hardware is connected
There is a couple things you can do to speed it up.
Like enable quick boot and skip memory test.
And make your HD/SSD the primary boot device.
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@unperverted-vixen said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
in your BIOS (well, hopefully UEFI nowadays!)
Aren't BIOS and UEFI orthogonal concepts?
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@gąska said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Aren't BIOS and UEFI orthogonal concepts?
Not exactly different concepts, just very different implementations. UEFI is the one that would actually deserve a blakeyrant.
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@twelvebaud said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@cvi Yep, that's Windows being mistakenly helpful. If you plug in a new audio device, it thinks that that's the one you want to use right away, so it switches everything to it. The problem is that "new" doesn't mean "just plugged in", it can also mean "just turned on because it fails at hotplug", "just had its drivers updated", or "felt lonely so it reinitialized so it could get all the soundz back".
I finally went through Device Manager and hard-disabled every single audio device except the one I use because it would always pick wrong. And plugging/unplugging anything made it switch audio devices seemingly at random, although I'm guessing the algorithm is designed to actively avoid the correct answer because simple probability says it should happen by accident occasionally.
- USB TASCAM rack-mount audio interface (the one I actually want to use, you know, that costs a fair amount and has really nice high-bit DACs and some studio monitors connected to it)
- 40" TV via HDMI, with terrible flat-panel TV speakers in it
- Built-in laptop speakers, also terrible, even at max volume it's only usable if you're in an anechoic chamber because it maxes out at like 32 dB.
- Secondary 22" monitor using a passive Mini DisplayPort-to-DVI adapter, which shows up as an audio device even though it has no speakers and DVI doesn't support audio so LET'S MAKE THIS THE DEFAULT SETTING AND RECHOOSE THIS ONE ANYTIME SOMETHING IN THE AUDIO SUBSYSTEM CHANGES
- Headphone/line-out on the laptop which is apparently different than the built-in speakers (??)
- Crappy cheap USB webcam that has a microphone and no speakers so logically it shows up as an output device.
- Built-in laptop webcam that is 100% useless because I keep the laptop docked with the lid closed, but even when it's disabled Skype wants to default to this one and then crash because the webcam I'm trying to keep it from using is disabled.
- My cell phone, which is sometimes plugged into the USB hub to charge. Why would anyone anywhere ever want to plug a cell phone into their PC and use its speaker as your main audio output?
Getting any kind of voip setup working is interesting, too. If I join a Skype call, or a TeamSpeak server, or whatever, it has to decide which microphone to use, again auto-picking the wrong option or even graying out the good options in the selection box:
- Line-in on the laptop's audio but there's nothing plugged in here and the audio driver can tell you that nothing is plugged in there and I know that because it gives me an annoying popup if I plug/unplug anything here, so WHY ARE YOU USING IT WITH NOTHING PLUGGED IN
- Built-in laptop webcam, useless because the laptop is docked with the lid closed and sitting on top of a noisy laptop cooling fan/pad thingy so all you hear is fan noise from this one.
- External USB webcam, easiest option but then everyone complains about noise because it has auto-gain and gains itself up whenever a car drives by outside or a neighbor kid screams in the playground or a door in another apartment slams shut which is every six seconds so I get muted by everyone in the call and then why bother even being on VOIP with this. Guy who wrote the un-disableable auto-gain audio system for this webcam: Please go die of dysentery and I hope your bowels invert and fall out your butthole as you diarrhea yourself to death.
- TASCAM recording interface which is the best answer when I have a condenser mic set up at my desk, but I can't tell the software which of the 16 input channels to use. Some software defaults to channel 1, others do a stereo mix of channel 1 and 2 and aren't happy unless I have two mics set up, and yet more software either picks at random or fails utterly.
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@mott555 I must say, I've never seen anything like that. And when a power user has some bizarre problem no one else has, it's usually due to them trying to be smart and using some crazy undocumented configuration options to do something fun but ultimately useless, and making some mistake in the process that renders some subsystem unoperational either completely or to a large degree.
I'm not saying that you brought this upon yourself. But there's a high chance you brought this upon yourself.
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@gąska said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
But there's a high chance you brought this upon yourself.
Yeah, I brought it on myself by installing Windows 10.
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@timebandit said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@atazhaia said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The longest part of the boot process is it going through POST and figuring what hardware is connected
There is a couple things you can do to speed it up.
Like enable quick boot and skip memory test.
And make your HD/SSD the primary boot device.
Yeah, there's no memory testing apart from it checking what size modules are installed. And quick boot is on. And the primary SSD is the boot device. It's just very slow at doing the basic stuff. Also not helped by there being two extra harddrive controllers (one integrated, one addon card) which also needs to initilize their firmwares before POST is completed and it can hand control over to grub.
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@mott555 said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
My cell phone, which is sometimes plugged into the USB hub to charge. Why would anyone anywhere ever want to plug a cell phone into their PC and use its speaker as your main audio output?
Because it's in the car and using bluetooth to talk to the car so its audio comes thru the car speakers? With all these driver-assisted self-drive things, you know someone will do that.
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@mott555 said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
plugging/unplugging anything made it switch audio devices seemingly at random, although I'm guessing the algorithm is designed to actively avoid the correct answer because simple probability says it should happen by accident occasionally
I've seen this sort of shit before. I think it's related to the hardware enumerator being a slow and buggy pile of poo that is not providing consistent IDs for everything it finds, and the drivers for various bits of hardware not really agreeing with each other. Alas, it seems that the problems couple to the distinctly crappy state of third-party hardware drivers; while MS's own ones are usually OK, if there's anything from someone else in there (well… there always is, but there are definitely some who are worse than others) then all bets are off. In any case, the result is a fight over who exactly is listening to what on the USB (sometimes the fight is over the files storing the details, sometimes on the bus directly) and the result is pretty shit.
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@dkf said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@mott555 said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
plugging/unplugging anything made it switch audio devices seemingly at random, although I'm guessing the algorithm is designed to actively avoid the correct answer because simple probability says it should happen by accident occasionally
I've seen this sort of shit before. I think it's related to the hardware enumerator being a slow and buggy pile of poo that is not providing consistent IDs for everything it finds, and the drivers for various bits of hardware not really agreeing with each other. Alas, it seems that the problems couple to the distinctly crappy state of third-party hardware drivers; while MS's own ones are usually OK, if there's anything from someone else in there (well… there always is, but there are definitely some who are worse than others) then all bets are off. In any case, the result is a fight over who exactly is listening to what on the USB (sometimes the fight is over the files storing the details, sometimes on the bus directly) and the result is pretty shit.
Things were simpler when you had one single ISA sound card installed. Some days I wish we could ditch Plug and Play and go back to jumper-assigned IRQs...
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@mott555 said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@twelvebaud said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@cvi Yep, that's Windows being mistakenly helpful. If you plug in a new audio device, it thinks that that's the one you want to use right away, so it switches everything to it. The problem is that "new" doesn't mean "just plugged in", it can also mean "just turned on because it fails at hotplug", "just had its drivers updated", or "felt lonely so it reinitialized so it could get all the soundz back".
I finally went through Device Manager and hard-disabled every single audio device except the one I use because it would always pick wrong.
Pfft. When I plugged my Rocksmith cable into Windows 7, Windows decided to set it as my default microphone, I think partly because I didn't actually have an actual, you know, microphone plugged in.
So eventually I wanted to use a "real"(1) microphone, so I plugged it in, discovered that it wasn't working, and set it as the default.
So far, so good. A little surreal, but at least it worked.
Then I upgraded to Windows 10, which went mostly well, except that even though I had the "real" microphone plugged in the whole time, the upgrade process decided, without telling me, that the Rocksmith cable should be the default microphone again.
(1) "real" in quotes because it's just the crappy thing in a "gamer" headset, not a proper pro-spec microphone, but the key point is that it isn't a cable for plugging into your guitar...
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@atazhaia said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Also not helped by there being two extra harddrive controllers (one integrated, one addon card) which also needs to initilize their firmwares before POST is completed
That's a little paleolithic, isn't it? (Also: they need to initialise their firmware before POST(1) is begun.)
(1) In the sense of "counting all the bits and waggling the floppy drives and shit like that(2)" - initialising expansion card ROMs is done before that, and includes the video card, which is why any video card BIOS message appears before the main BIOS.
(2) My new machine has no floppy drives, no floppy controller port on the motherboard, no PATA connectors anywhere (so far, like the one I bought in 2011), and no serial or parallel ports either.
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@steve_the_cynic As far as the visible boot process goes: BIOS starts. Logo is displayed. CPU and memory gets displayed. USB controllers gets initialized and USB devices detected. Southbridge hard drive controller is initialized and hard drives/disc drives detected. Then the BIOS hands over to the first hard drive (fakeRAID) controller, which needs to check the connected drives. Repeat for the second one. Then finally grub is displayed.
Edit: Motherboard is from 2010, X58 chipset. Just when SATA3 and USB3 had appeared, which is why it had an extra harddrive controller added. The second was my doing because I needed more drives and the MB only provided 8 SATA ports in total. New enough to have scrapped PATA and floppy fully at least.
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@atazhaia said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@steve_the_cynic As far as the visible boot process goes: BIOS starts. Logo is displayed. CPU and memory gets displayed. USB controllers gets initialized and USB devices detected. Southbridge hard drive controller is initialized and hard drives/disc drives detected. Then the BIOS hands over to the first hard drive (fakeRAID) controller, which needs to check the connected drives. Repeat for the second one. Then finally grub is displayed.
Agreed, but the main BIOS calls the expansion card BIOS ROMs before all that happens. (It sort of must, because one of the possible expansion card BIOS ROMs is the one on the video card, and if you don't call that to initialise the card, you won't see anything. And yes, obviously, the PCI device enumerator system has to be set up before those ROMs can be activated.)
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@steve_the_cynic Actually, from what I remember, the extra hard drive controllers do get called first at the end of POST, as that's when the BIOS will pass control over to the option ROMs and allow them to initialize themselves. The video card is a special case, as that's kinda important to display the POST status, so video card initlization happens early in the POST.
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@atazhaia said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@steve_the_cynic Actually, from what I remember, the extra hard drive controllers do get called first at the end of POST, as that's when the BIOS will pass control over to the option ROMs and allow them to initialize themselves. The video card is a special case, as that's kinda important to display the POST status, so video card initlization happens early in the POST.
(Dredges in memory.)
(Concludes that @Atazhaia is probably right.)
Why? Because it permits a hard disk controller option ROM to make its disks "first" in priority to the main BIOS's disks when a real-mode system boots up. And that allows the system to boot from the first non-motherboard disk even if there's a main disk installed.
But as you say, the video card must be first.
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@dkf said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@mott555 said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Plug and
PlayPrayFTFY
Fucking oneboxes, how do they work?
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@gąska said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Fucking oneboxes, how do they work?
With the cooperation of the target site, or not very well.
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@boomzilla I thought Wikipedia cooperates very well with oneboxes?
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@gąska Wikipedia creates noneboxes; it only renames the link.
Wikiwand, however...
Wikiwand - Plug & Pray
Plug & Pray is a 2010 documentary film about the promise, problems and ethics of artificial intelligence and robotics. The main protagonists are the former MIT professor Joseph Weizenbaum and the futurist Raymond Kurzweil. The title is a pun on the computer hardware phrase "Plug and Play".
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@gąska It seems to depend on the article in question. I guess that the wiki software picks up on a particular summary or tag or whatever and not all articles have whatever that is. Either way, the "interesting" oneboxes are generated by the site itself, not iFramely. When it doesn't get anything, then iFramely puts the favicon and the title, as it did with the Plug & Pray link.
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@boomzilla Huh. It does not, however, work for sites that don't have a favicon.
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@mott555 said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
I'm guessing the algorithm is designed to actively avoid the correct answer because simple probability says it should happen by accident occasionally.
There's a two fifths chance that picking randomly would choose an output that I can actually hear (I have a pair of headphones that are connected via both USB and by S/PIDF). That's never happened, though, which would support your theory.
(There are more than 5 audio interfaces, but the other ones are recognized as not being connected, and those it actually seems to avoid picking.)
Plug & Pray - Wikipedia
