Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π
-
So I have an ASUS RT-N12 (Rev.D) flashed with Tomato. I don't know what is with router manufacturers and their shit-tier web interfaces, so I'd like to flash it with aftermarket firmware if at all possible.
I used to have a WRT54-GL, wonderful beast, used it until it died of old age. The RT-N12 is alright, but requires flashing under recovery mode to get tomato on it. Still, the one at my office works fine, but at home the wifi drops every day or so, requiring a reboot. Will try flashing it again but if to no avail, will look around again.
Anyone have router suggestions that won't break the bank? < 10 devices, heavily congested wifi environment (at least 3 or 4 other competing signals on each of channels 1, 6, and 11, with a couple more in between)
Edit: Ah yes, my current router also exhibits this fun symptom where I get to experience the 56kbps life when I'm sitting at my desk. I get better speeds when I am next to the router. My desk is 10 feet away.
-
Personally I've given up and just get a good AP, and set up a separate box as the actual router. YMMV.
In that regard, the Google Wifi units I've set to Bridge Mode (i.e. dumb AP mode) are working great so far!
-
@tsaukpaetra said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Personally I've given up and just get a good AP, and set up a separate box as the actual router. YMMV.
In that regard, the Google Wifi units I've set to Bridge Mode (i.e. dumb AP mode) are working great so far!
If you go this route the Xyzel APs are fantastic and reasonably priced, at the higher end the NWA5123 is a monster with dual radios. It has much greater range than than even the Cisco enterprise APs we deployed. All sorts of nice things like guest WLAN with captive portal too.
And pfSense on an old PC would be free and gives you a router/firewall that will do anything you can think of.
-
@julianlam said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
heavily congested wifi environment (at least 3 or 4 other competing signals on each of channels 1, 6, and 11, with a couple more in between)
Is 5GHz not an option?
-
@tsaukpaetra said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Personally I've given up and just get a good AP, and set up a separate box as the actual router. YMMV.
In that regard, the Google Wifi units I've set to Bridge Mode (i.e. dumb AP mode) are working great so far!
I went with ubiquiti unifi, but that is rather more expensive than googlewifi or top end consumer routers.
i think it was worth it because my network performance is through the roof and being able to just add more access points whenever i have the need without needing to worry about separate 2.5 and 5GHz networks or dealing with issues when devices roam from one accesspoint to the other.
so yeah. that was about $700 to get set up (because i went with the "powah ovah ethanet!" option, it's cheaper if you don't get the POE injector switch and use an unmanaged switch instead) but sooooooo totally worth it!
-
@deadfast said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Is 5GHz not an option?
Not on the RT-N12, I think it only has 2.4 GHz radios. Either that or maybe the Tomato firmware is hiding it behind some obscure option. Light googling said I have to enable the USB option to see it
Back in my day routers didn't have USB ports
Ubiquiti makes nice routers, but way out of my budget. Maybe they'll send me one if we ever replace their forum
I wonder if a first-gen Raspberry Pi could function better as a router... it's absolutely terrible at being an HTPC though.
-
@julianlam said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@deadfast said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Is 5GHz not an option?
Not on the RT-N12, I think it only has 2.4 GHz radios. Either that or maybe the Tomato firmware is hiding it behind some obscure option. Light googling said I have to enable the USB option to see it
Back in my day routers didn't have USB ports
Ubiquiti makes nice routers, but way out of my budget. Maybe they'll send me one if we ever replace their forum
I wonder if a first-gen Raspberry Pi could function better as a router... it's absolutely terrible at being an HTPC though.
hmm...... this might be an option for you then?
use your existing router (with wifi disables) for routing stuff and packet switching and use this as your access point?
or if you like the idea of unifi maybe start pivoting onto it slowly? grab the access point first (https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-802-11ac-Dual-Radio-UAP-AC-PRO-US/dp/B015PRO512) then in six months or so pick up the security gateway (https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Security-Gateway-USG/dp/B00LV8YZLK) to replace your router, then if you're feeling really ambitious next holidays you can treat yourself to one of their POE injecting switches (https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-US-8-60W-Unifi-Switch/dp/B01MU3WUX1) and go full unifi .... and at current prices that only costs about 400$ spread out over more than a year so that's only..... 400 divided by 52... carry the three.... then ... uhuh. yep. substitute.... and integrate from zero to pi..... About 7.70$ a week. so if you get two, maybe three, fewer coffees from starbucks a week you'll have that covered no problem!
the nice part about unifi is that it's modular. you can actually do that. :-D
-
@accalia certainly gives me something to think about! I like modularity... Thanks for linking the items, will have to do more research
-
@julianlam said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@accalia certainly gives me something to think about! I like modularity... Thanks for linking the items, will have to do more research
Glad to help. If you have more questions about unifi feel free to ask me about it. i'm always happy to fangirl over their product (i'd fangirl even harder if they paid me to, but they don't i just love their products)
or, if you want to play around with what the interface you'll use to manage the unifi kit.... they have a demo! https://demo.ubnt.com
it's quite agressively amnesiac, it'll reset itself as soon as it decides you're not playing with it but it shows you an actual setup and lets you play with a pretend version of it, doing everything you can do with real kit. and of course the controller you're using is exactly the same controller you get to use with the actual kit. and there are no "advanced" versions of it. unless you want to count the 85$ cloud key that you can buy to run the controller off a stick instead of needing to run the app on one of your PCs. it's more convenient with the cloud key, but you don't get any extra functionality, even the run it yourself version lets you go to https://unifi.ubnt.com and manage things remotely (if you tell it to connect anyway, that's not automatic with the self run version you gotta click the checkbox to turn that on if you don't have the cloud key)
..... i should probably stop fangirling for now though.... it's nto right to sound pushy.
.... sorry about that.... i just get so excites....
I'll.... just be going now then........
-flee!-
-
@accalia said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
use your existing router (with wifi disables) for routing stuff and packet switching
A home router is kinda OK if you have Milwaukee PC connection, but it's a poor solution if you have anything better.
Buy a real router or a PC with 2 network cards and something like pfSense is so much better.
Personally, I use Sophos UTM (free for home use) on a dedicated PC
-
@timebandit said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
A home router is kinda OK if you have Milwaukee PC connection, but it's a poor solution if you have anything better.
I would disagree with that assertion. For most people a good consumer router is all that they need. It is only when you need to start doing more advanced things with your internet connection that you need the functionality that Tomato/DD-WRT/pfSense/Untangle/nethserver/Sophos can bring to the table. Usually that will also entail upgrading to a business class connection for the static IPs and no port blocking, etc.
Bog standard consumer routers can handle everything that a standard consumer can throw at them.
-
@timebandit said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Buy a real router or a PC with 2 network cards and something like pfSense is so much better.
Personally, I use Sophos UTM (free for home use) on a dedicated PCAlso, that dedicated PC is going to chew through a hell of a lot more power than a consumer router. A PC dedicated to routing is going to consume >100w 24/7 (probably a lot more unless you go Atom or otherwise). A consumer router will consume >12w.
-
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Bog standard consumer routers can handle everything that a standard consumer can throw at them.
In my experience, they create a bottleneck, and they get killed by BitTorrent.
-
@timebandit said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
but it's a poor solution if you have anything better.
well yes.
i was more thinking as a migration plan though. like the existing router is at least functioning, so by replacing it a bit at a time @julianlam gets better performance and gets to spread the cost out over a longer period of time instead of needing to slap down half a kay all at once.
but yeah, if it's for anything other than "just until i get enough spending cash to do something proper about it" the existing router would be better served by being replaced. grabbing an old Del optiplex off ebay for like 30$ (OR LESS!) and shoving a 100baseT NIC in it as well as installing PFSense would be a really cheap way of getting a superior router, so long as wireless is already covered, and you can get 8port gigabit switches pretty cheap. though if you need to grab all that all at once it does start adding up to the point where i'd argue that 4-500$ on just getting set up with unifi all at one go is worth it.
see, it's all in how you want to move. there are tons of options, and pros and cons to all of them.
:-D
it's what makes recommending kit for home networks so much fun! i have to figure out how to get the best end experience possible (which usually means i recommend unifi kit because consumer kit is trash and the unified management is great[see what i did there?]) while at the same time making the final solution come in on or under their budget.
is a fun problem!
-
@timebandit said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
In my experience, they create a bottleneck, and they get killed by BitTorrent.
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
For most people a good consumer router is all that they need.
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Bog standard consumer routers can handle everything that a standard consumer can throw at them.
-
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
A PC dedicated to routing is going to consume >100w 24/7 (probably a lot more unless you go Atom or otherwise). A consumer router will consume >12w.
What I use consume only 20w at peak usage
http://www.quixant.com/products/gaming-platforms/qxi-200
Note: Don't judge my choice, I got it for free at my last job
-
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Bog standard consumer routers can handle everything that a standard consumer can throw at them.
disagree.
they'll handle single user, on a "technically" broadband connection reasonably well but tend to choke at multiuser and higher bandwidth use. if you have a 2Mbit connection consumer is sufficient, but a 10Mbit or higher, especially if you're capable of saturating it with multiple people browsing the web and streaming video will cause that poor consumer router to have a fit, in my experience.
sure you can get the "prosumer" consumer kit that costs a bundle and handles that better but they still run into issues with multiple high bandwidth users, and that's before you get into the sort of users who bittorrent or use other high connection rate applications. not to mention that the "prosumer" kit draws way more power than it really should given its use and i have yet to meet a consumer router that handled simultaneious 2.5GHz and 5GHz networks with proper band steering to move clients to the least congested and highest reliability connections. Business kit will do that and you should love it for that.
-
@accalia said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
disagree.
Don't care.
@accalia said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
they'll handle single user, on a "technically" broadband connection reasonably well but tend to choke at multiuser and higher bandwidth use. if you have a 2Mbit connection consumer is sufficient, but a 10Mbit or higher, especially if you're capable of saturating it with multiple people browsing the web and streaming video will cause that poor consumer router to have a fit, in my experience.
Normally we have a 1U Atom based server that handles all of that here at our home due to some of the machines I keep here and traffic that gets routed in and out, etc. A few months ago that machine went down and I looked around at what I could swap in until I got it back up. There was a bog standard Linksys router on the shelf. Not a new one, and not an expensive one when it was purchased.
It handled it all just fine. No worries. 100Mbps connection. Lots of traffic moving in and out during the day and night combined with evening viewing of 1-3 HD streams, internet browsing, email, wife connecting to her office via VPN 2+ days a week when she "works from home". All of that.
If you are not doing deep packet inspection or BitTorrent, consumer grade routers have more than enough horsepower for normal users. The rest of it is wankery. We just happen to be a group of users that are not "normal".
@accalia said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
sure you can get the "prosumer" consumer kit that costs a bundle and handles that better but they still run into issues with multiple high bandwidth users, and that's before you get into the sort of users who bittorrent or use other high connection rate applications. not to mention that the "prosumer" kit draws way more power than it really should given its use and i have yet to meet a consumer router that handled simultaneious 2.5GHz and 5GHz networks with proper band steering to move clients to the least congested and highest reliability connections. Business kit will do that and you should love it for that.
I do love it for that, when it is needed. Most people don't and for them it would be wankery.
-
@julianlam just getting a 5ghz router will help with the congestion. Something like 23 channels instead of 11, and with less "low signal you can't get bandwidth on but enough to trick your router into staying off this channel" problems.
-
@blakeyrat Thanks, might look up some 5GHz routers as well. There are definitely fewer networks in that space in my apartment.
-
AirCube not available in Canada -- at least, I can't find it on Amazon.ca, NewEgg, or NCIX.
Looks like the nearest alternative would be the Unify UAP, of which only their Pro version has 5 GHz band support You've set me down a dangerous path @accalia...
-
@julianlam said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
AirCube not available in Canada -- at least, I can't find it on Amazon.ca, NewEgg, or NCIX.
Looks like the nearest alternative would be the Unify UAP, of which only their Pro version has 5 GHz band support You've set me down a dangerous path @accalia...
Dangerous? maybe...
but worth it? almost certainly!
-
@timebandit said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@accalia said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
use your existing router (with wifi disables) for routing stuff and packet switching
A home router is kinda OK if you have Milwaukee PC connection, but it's a poor solution if you have anything better.
Buy a real router or a PC with 2 network cards and something like pfSense is so much better.
Personally, I use Sophos UTM (free for home use) on a dedicated PC
Have you tried untangle or the unifi usg? Iβm growing tried of untangles bs, but iβd hate switching to something more worse.
Slightly more on topic:
Ive recently bought an unifi ap ac lite. Itβs excellent. if you have a computer the controller can run itβs a cheap as a consumer router. (Itβll run on aws too, but ew)
Note: this has 5ghz too.
-
@swayde said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Have you tried untangle or the unifi usg? Iβm growing tried of untangles bs, but iβd hate switching to something more worse.
o/ use the USG myself. is fantastic.
setting up stuff like VPNs is a bit tricky, but once it's there it's solid. checkout https://demo.ubnt.com. see what the settings are and how to configure them. it'll give ou a better picture than my words could at wether the USG is a good move for you or not.
-
@accalia said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@swayde said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Have you tried untangle or the unifi usg? Iβm growing tried of untangles bs, but iβd hate switching to something more worse.
o/ use the USG myself. is fantastic.
setting up stuff like VPNs is a bit tricky, but once it's there it's solid. checkout https://demo.ubnt.com. see what the settings are and how to configure them. it'll give ou a better picture than my words could at wether the USG is a good move for you or not.
It seems to have weird problems.
Press traffic (554 GB) then , mp4 under streaming media (11gb) . Then it shows details for ~4gb.
Thatβs.... weird.. I really want to buy it, iβd just hate to get burned by weird software bugs.
-
@swayde said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Have you tried untangle
Used it in the past, then it started to go to shit, so I switched.
Sophos UTM is a bit complicated, but once you are used to it, it gives you a lot of control.
-
@timebandit Nobody wants "control". People want "shit works as easily and reliably as possible."
-
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
For most people a good consumer router is all that they need.
The one caveat I would state as far as bog standard consumer routers is that if you're an above-average bandwidth user (think 4 college guys in an apartment, video gamer, or 4+ hours of Netflix in an evening), they have a (relatively short) shelf life of 18-24 months, tops. I haven't seen one that lasts under my type of load (~200GB of transfer per month) for more than that; they eventually hit a point where something goes to shit and the router will need rebooted every couple hours because it cuts you down to 1Mbps with super high ping spikes & packet loss. My theory has always been that the flash wears out and they can't maintain a NAT table that doesn't fit in memory any more, but I haven't done rigorous testing on that :P
@julianlam I would agree that the Ubiquiti UniFi stuff provides a good high end solution that still has the configuration experience of a more consumer grade equipment. For people that are more comfortable with Linux firewall stuff, I usually recommend the MikroTik home AP series, since it balances the features & reliability of the high end routers with the price of a prosumer router. I've helped a few people set them up, and had the same device in service at my house for 4 years without replacing it until I wanted a 5GHz AP, but I don't really recommend them without the "you need to be an intermediate-advanced user" caveat, because the web quick config on them does some stupid things that makes them run poorly.
Edit to summarize: So, if you don't find iptables rules and configuring Linux to be "fun", then I would recommend the Ubiquiti solution over the MikroTik. But if you want the best reliability & performance per price, my opinion is that the MikroTik wins, provided you can spend the time getting the advanced performance settings properly tuned.
-
@izzion said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
The one caveat I would state as far as bog standard consumer routers is that if you're an above-average bandwidth user (think 4 college guys in an apartment, video gamer, or 4+ hours of Netflix in an evening), they have a (relatively short) shelf life of 18-24 months, tops. I haven't seen one that lasts under my type of load (~200GB of transfer per month) for more than that; they eventually hit a point where something goes to shit and the router will need rebooted every couple hours because it cuts you down to 1Mbps with super high ping spikes & packet loss. My theory has always been that the flash wears out and they can't maintain a NAT table that doesn't fit in memory any more, but I haven't done rigorous testing on that
There is a really, really, really good chance that your theory is wrong. I would wager that it is shitty capacitors failing.
-
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
. I would wager that it is shitty capacitors failing.
no bet. chinesium caps found in consumer grade networking kit have a MTBF in my experience of 23 months.
and of course the manufacturer's warranty is only 12 months.
and even then they rely heavily on slippage as they'll require you to send the original UPC from your box as proof of purchase or some sort of bollocks like that.
-
@polygeekery
I didn't say I was a hardware expert
-
@izzion said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
I didn't say I was a hardware expert
I would never call myself one either, but I do like tinkering with electronics projects and I have a whole bench full of expensive test gear that I picked up for pennies on the dollar and repaired. It is pretty cool when you can save $500 by replacing $2 worth of capacitors.
My cousin recently told me that his access point was doing exactly what you described. 10 minutes to recap it and it is working like new again. Another thing worth checking is the power supply itself. They use the cheapest possible ones they can purchase. Too much ripple and the router starts flaking out.
Those power supplies usually fail because of shitty capacitors.
It is almost always the capacitors.
-
@izzion said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
~200GB of transfer per month
My house average 1TB per month. Consumer routers are shit for that type of load
-
@blakeyrat said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@timebandit Nobody wants "control".
I'm not a Nobody
-
-
Okay, just dropped a packet on Ubiquiti stuff, plus two Roku and a cheapo cable modem. This will be a complete overhaul of Greybeard Manor telecom: replacing ~1.5Mbps DSL plus satellite TV with Comcast Internet plus their "Instant TV" OTT service.
Then I'll need to replace the landline with, probably, Google Voice and some sort of VOIP box.
-
@greybeard said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
Then I'll need to replace the landline with, probably, Google Voice and some sort of VOIP box.
-
Speaking of crappy routers...
![0_1511234395092_Screenshot_20171120-201828.png](Uploading 0%)
-
@izzion said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
they eventually hit a point where something goes to shit and the router will need rebooted every couple hours because it cuts you down to 1Mbps with super high ping spikes & packet loss.
Hey, this is exactly what's happening with my router! Except this router is only 4 months old, whereas my other router (same brand, model, earlier revision) has been running fine for 2+ years now.
It likes to crap out when I'm watching Netflix... this morning it couldn't make it through the theme song for Enterprise without stopping to buffer four times.
-
@julianlam are you certain it is the router and not your internet connection?
-
@julianlam I totally stopped wasting my time with "consumer" routers. I just buy Ubiquiti routers (ER-X or ER-Lite) and Netgear "powerline ethernet" access points.
-
@polygeekery Fairly certain (though there's a fair amount of black boxing my ISP does)... they say the signal strength is good.
My wifi also drops when it gets bad, and a router reboot usually resolves the issue.
-
@julianlam
Are you only rebooting the router, or are you also rebooting the ISP's handoff box? It's possible the handoff box could be operating in router mode and having the actual problem itself.
-
@julianlam said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
It likes to crap out when I'm watching Netflix... this morning it couldn't make it through the theme song for Enterprise without stopping to buffer four times.
It was doing you a favor.
Unless it was the alternative universe episode, that one had great theme music.
-
@blakeyrat Enterprise was still better than Voyager.
-
@captain said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@blakeyrat Enterprise was still better than Voyager.
Nerds.
-
@polygeekery Worst. Namecalling. Ever.
-
@polygeekery said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@captain said in Recommend me a Tomato compatible router π :
@blakeyrat Enterprise was still better than Voyager.
Nerds.
And?
-
The thing I can't get over is why Ubiquiti equipment costs so much. Part of it is, of course, that they're headquartered Stateside, whereas most consumer routers manufacture their equipment (and in the case for TP-LINK and others, headquarter) in China.
Does Ubiquiti equipment actually negotiate traffic better in a congested wifi area?
They tout the ability to handle hundreds of simultaneous connections, but this is a home setup, I have maybe 7 devices on a good day -- that said, I do keep coming back to their products...
-