Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?



  • A colleague sitting next to me is a smoker who has recently switched to e-cigs.

    Since there is no typical second hand smoke coming out, he considers it ok to smoke those things while working. Also, laws are currently not prohibiting e-cigs, just ordinary cigars (according to him).

    I, however, can still smell the smoke (vapor?) coming out of those things and it's disgusting. Since I am always too hot, we have compromised he can smoke e-cigs while the window is open (the cold sensitive junior, on the other hand, is less thrilled with the deal).

    What do you think? Are e-cig vapors harmful? Should he be allowed to smoke them indoors? What are the rules in your workplace?



  • @cartman82 I've never smelled anything out of an e-cig. And I hate the smell of tobacco smoke with a passion, so I'd speak up if I did. Maybe it depends on the e-cig model or what they put in it. A former colleague smoked that inside, but he always asked first, and it didn't smell. If your colleague's e-cig smells disgusting, then he should go outside to smoke it. It'd be the same thing with strong-smelling food.



  • @khudzlin said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    It'd be the same thing with strong-smelling food.

    No cup-a-soup at the desk, thank you.



  • @cartman82

    Short Answer - No.

    Long Answer - HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOOOO



  • @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    A colleague sitting next to me is a smoker who has recently switched to e-cigs.

    Since there is no typical second hand smoke coming out, he considers it ok to smoke those things while working. Also, laws are currently not prohibiting e-cigs, just ordinary cigars (according to him).

    I, however, can still smell the smoke (vapor?) coming out of those things and it's disgusting. Since I am always too hot, we have compromised he can smoke e-cigs while the window is open (the cold sensitive junior, on the other hand, is less thrilled with the deal).

    What do you think? Are e-cig vapors harmful? Should he be allowed to smoke them indoors? What are the rules in your workplace?

    On the harmfulness, all studies so far point to no.

    However it's a smell and therefore unless everyone has individually confirmed they don't mind he should do it outdoors. I used to stand outside with mine.

    @pleegwat said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    No cup-a-soup at the desk, thank you.

    A coworker brings fish in and heats it up in the microwave. Why would anyone do this.



  • @khudzlin said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @cartman82 I've never smelled anything out of an e-cig. And I hate the smell of tobacco smoke with a passion, so I'd speak up if I did.

    Interesting. Maybe his thing is broken.

    The others in the room have also said it smells, they just don't care (because they are hard core smokers themselves).

    @khudzlin said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    It'd be the same thing with strong-smelling food.

    I am sometimes guilty of that. So I can't be too high and mighty regarding his cigars in that sense.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    What are the rules in your workplace?

    All types of smoking materials are absolutely not allowed to be used in any of our buildings. Indeed, they're not even supposed to be used until you're at least 5m away from any entrances or open windows, though enforcement of that is utterly patchy (and much more likely with cigarettes than e-cigs; the former stink way more than the latter). Generally speaking, though e-cigs are in the same formal position as ordinary cigarettes, enforcement actions against them are a lot less common (e.g., nobody really minds people using them on uncovered train platforms, unlike cigarettes).

    I remember how things were when smoking was allowed inside. The building's head porter was a key bastion of smoking and was a cantankerous git who nobody wanted to cross, not even the head of the department. Lots of people were quietly glad when he died of lung cancer. Also the air inside our buildings is now far less awful; the main problems now tend to be those people who insist on using lots of scent and deodorant (which often have quite nasty solvents IMO). Or you're in a literal chemistry lab where volatiles are being worked with, but those have excellent ventilation with good reason. ;)


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @cursorkeys said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    On the harmfulness, all studies so far point to no.

    Formally, the studies indicate that e-cig vapour is hugely less harmful than cigarette or cigar smoke. (Not difficult, the reduced level of carbon monoxide and tars kind of guarantees that!) What they don't say is that it is not harmful at all; it's still crap that doesn't really belong in the lungs.

    Some of the liquids smell a lot more than others. I really don't like being near anyone who uses one of the very strawberry ones; while I like eating strawberries a lot, I don't want to breathe them…



  • @dkf My brother recently celebrated his birthday and invited us to a small private back room in a pub where he and his friends smoked quite a bit (such rooms are the only places in pubs where smoking is allowed. Others try to get around the smoking ban by declaring their pub to be a "private club" where you have to apply for membership first).

    It has been quite a while since I was last subjected to this kind of assault. I also didn't expect it which is why I didn't bring much in the way of spare clothes. I made a point of apologizing to my neighbour seat in the train on my way back because I reeked like a cold ashtray.

    Anyway, @cartman82, the smell might also stem from him using not pure tobacco liquid but something with additives.



  • @cursorkeys said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    I used to stand outside with mine.

    The entire point of taking up smoking at work, e-cigs or not, is so that you can fuck off away from your desk every once in a while. Why would anyone give that up?



  • @dkf said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    The building's head porter was a key bastion of smoking and was a cantankerous git who nobody wanted to cross, not even the head of the department. Lots of people were quietly glad when he died of lung cancer.

    That seems like the ultimate solution for the smoking problem.



  • @dkf said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    (Not difficult, the reduced level of carbon monoxide and tars kind of guarantees that!)

    I've seen suggestions that a huge amount of lung cancer from tobacco might also be due to the fact that tobacco fixes Polonium-210 in its leaves in higher rates than other plants. And since 210Po is an alpha particle emitter...


  • area_can

    @cartman82 one would think, but people are still doing it...



  • @rhywden said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    It has been quite a while since I was last subjected to this kind of assault. I also didn't expect it which is why I didn't bring much in the way of spare clothes. I made a point of apologizing to my neighbour seat in the train on my way back because I reeked like a cold ashtray.

    Back when I used to be surrounded by smokers all the time, this didn't bother me too much. Now that I am almost never inhaling second hand smoke, at times when I do, it's doubly annoying.


  • BINNED

    @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Also, laws are currently not prohibiting e-cigs, just ordinary cigars (according to him).

    Over here EU laws are in effect, which pretty much treat them the same as regular cigarettes. I think the only bit that's different is that the bottles don't have to have those lovely photos on them. Other than that - no vaping where smoking isn't allowed, all the products have to be kept behind closed doors and not displayed and all that jazz, same shit. Plus a few stupid ones to boot (Bottles can be 10ml max? What? What does that accomplish?)



  • Anybody know how these things interact with (optical) smoke detectors? My guess would be that they actually might trigger.

    Either way, I'm 99% sure that any kind of smoking (electronic or not) is a no-go around here.



  • @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    I, however, can still smell the smoke (vapor?) coming out of those things and it's disgusting.

    My experience is that the smell is very dependent on the flavour that the smoker has picked. It can vary from basically no smell (just water vapour, I guess?) to puke-inducing mix of artificial flavourings (think about mixing all kinds of possible fruits and flower, and maybe add caramel, or whatever else you can think of...). Some people apparently like to try different flavours regularly.

    Anyway, rules here are that e-cigs are treated like regular ones, so no one is allowed to use them indoor.

    (also, a fireman in a training recently told us that some smoke detectors can be triggered by e-cigs, so depending on what's in your office, this might be a good argument to ban them indoor!)



  • @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Are e-cig vapors harmful?

    No.

    Should he be allowed to smoke them indoors?

    Qualified no in this instance (strongly flavoured liquid one suspects.) See also: strong perfume, strong smelling food, body odour.

    What are the rules in your workplace?

    Banned.

    @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Over here EU laws are in effect, which pretty much treat them the same as regular cigarettes.

    Worse. Producers of e-cig equipment have to put warning labels on them that are outright lies/utter bollocks*:

    0_1510146828891_0fa88301-968e-48ba-a389-ea1ec2eb731a-image.png

    Note that the small print (you did see it didn't you?) is not part of the regulations.


    * Delete as applicable.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    I'm a smoker but an e-cig in the workplace seems like a dick move, even if it's not harmful and doesn't smell as bad as cigarettes. Not everyone might be aware it's just steam instead of cigarette smoke and it's just going to lead to unnecessary misunderstandings if the office sees any amount of outside traffic. And when there's someone who can actually smell it and hates it, that's a no-brainer, take it outside - the smelly food analogy seems pretty apt, eat your fish and smelly cheese at home, dude.

    (I don't even know what the rules in my workplace are about this, it's probably banned but I don't think anyone even thinks of trying to vape inside.)


  • SockDev

    @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    he considers it ok to smoke those things while working

    there are two options here:

    1. He's an asshole for not considering his coworkers when smoking at his desk
    2. he's an asshole for only failing to smoke actual cigars at his desk because of the law.

    to which there is only one correct response

    1. Disabuse him and force him to smoke outside because YICK!

  • BINNED

    @pjh Interestingly I didn't see that format of label here (it is that exact format with white background and black letters on regular cigarettes though). It was on bottles for a long time though, put there at discretion of the manufacturer I guess, but not in a uniform way like this.

    Putting it on a coil is utter idiotism, though.



  • @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    It was on bottles for a long time though

    Even ones that didn't, ya know, actually contain any nicotine?


  • BINNED

    @pjh Not as far as I know. I don't mix my own liquids, so I haven't checked.

    Though if it is that's maybe even more stupid than putting it on coils. At least the only use for those actually are vaping devices, with nicotine in the liquid or no. PG/VG mixtures themselves can be bought in regular drug stores though, and they have been for years since thye have a variety of uses.



  • @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    I don't mix my own liquids, so I haven't checked.

    They're not necessarily used for mixing. Nicotine-free vaping is a thing.


  • BINNED

    @pjh Point, sorry, my brain immediately skipped to the pure non-flavored stuff.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Bottles can be 10ml max

    That's particularly weird given the recent moves to increase the minimum amount of cigarettes or tobacco that can be bought at a time.

    As a very occasional smoker (I'll maybe buy a packet if I'm going to an event I'll want to escape and go outside at), I used to buy a pack of 10, or 12.5g of loose tobacco. Now you can only buy 20 packs or 25g


  • BINNED

    @jaloopa Over here regular packs are 20 cigarettes. There was one brand that had 25, not sure if it's still around. Anyway, packs of 10 existed once for like a couple of months, and form what I heard they sold well. Then they just disappeared. I wonder if these are related...



  • @jaloopa said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    That's particularly weird given the recent moves to increase the minimum amount of cigarettes or tobacco that can be bought at a time.

    "We want you to cut down on sugar, we'll tell industry to reduce portion sizes."

    "We want you to cut down on tobacco, we'll tell industry to increase portion sizes."

    Totally consistent.

    ...with Big Public Health™ policy that is.

    The 10ml thing was, IIRC, justified with them mumbling something about the cheeldreen drinking it or somesuch nonsense reason. ICBA to go look up cites for that one.

    @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Over here regular packs are 20 cigarettes.

    In order to keep prices down (due to exorbitant tax rises - 86% of the UK price of a £7.50 20-pack is tax) producers used to fill the packets with 19, 18 or 17 sticks.

    Ditto with the 50g/25g packs of loose 'baccy of yore (for the same reasons) - they were producing packs with as little as 7g or 6g.

    The regulations were in response to that.



  • @pjh said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    The 10ml thing was, IIRC, justified with them mumbling something about the cheeldreen drinking it or somesuch nonsense reason. ICBA to go look up cites for that one.

    Wouldn't matter anyway. You chug 10ml, 30ml, or 240ml of nic liquid, you still gonna OD.



  • I'm kind of not the best source for this (as I use one and ROUTINELY violate my workplace's policy of not using it indoors.

    I, however, minimize its presence by using a liquid that's basically just menthol that has no smell once it's exhaled, and by learning to keep the vapor in for an extra couple seconds so that I exhale pretty much nothing. The only way people can tell I'm using it is if they actually see me doing so, or if the ambient noise level drops enough that you can hear its occasional firing (which I muffle with a hand around the tank to reduce).



  • @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    What do you think?

    Boomzilla's a dumbshit.

    @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Are e-cig vapors harmful?

    Probably less so than the coffee you have in your hand. Nicotine is no worse than caffeine when removed from all the burning paper/tar byproducts of its consumption.

    @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Should he be allowed to smoke them indoors?

    Unless they are proven to create a public health risk, yes. Nobody should be passing laws based on biases and knee-jerk opinions, and the default legal situation should always be "people are free to do whatever the fuck they want".

    EDIT: assuming you mean allowed by the government. If you mean "allowed by the building's owner", or "allowed by his boss", it's a different situation.


  • BINNED

    @e4tmyl33t said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Wouldn't matter anyway. You chug 10ml, 30ml, or 240ml of nic liquid, you still gonna OD.

    Up to the point where the packaging warns you of getting any significant amount of it on your skin, let alone drinking it. Maybe lawmakers should ask actual, you know, scientists about this shjjjhmbjhhjnjhmnhjnhjnhnhjn

    Sorry, couldn't finish that sentence without bursting into laughter and fist pounding my keyboard.



  • @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Up to the point where the packaging warns you of getting any significant amount of it on your skin, let alone drinking it.

    That's kind of one of the reasons I haven't broken into DIY liquid, I really have no suitable place at the moment to set up as a "lab" space to work with it, and doing it anywhere I DO have would nearly guarantee some form of spillage accident that would end very badly.



  • @pjh
    This product contains nicotine*
    *when you put nicotine in it


  • BINNED

    @hungrier said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @pjh
    This product contains nicotine*
    *when you put nicotine in it

    Even that is a stretch. I guess the cotton in it might retain some once it was used?

    </ignoring the joke>



  • @hungrier said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @pjh
    This product contains nicotine*

    *when you put nicotine in it

    Thing is, these products contain more nicotine than the one I previously posted. But do not require lables to say so.

    0_1510155077385_ad450c25-7a69-4509-8654-1b7bedf19778-image.png

    0_1510155098077_a4c0a19c-eae8-4d5a-85e8-63c8530c3775-image.png

    0_1510155190335_6d1dbb1b-d561-4e02-9e20-935a5354f2df-image.png



  • @dkf said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @cursorkeys said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    On the harmfulness, all studies so far point to no.

    Formally, the studies indicate that e-cig vapour is hugely less harmful than cigarette or cigar smoke. (Not difficult, the reduced level of carbon monoxide and tars kind of guarantees that!) What they don't say is that it is not harmful at all; it's still crap that doesn't really belong in the lungs.

    Some of the liquids smell a lot more than others. I really don't like being near anyone who uses one of the very strawberry ones; while I like eating strawberries a lot, I don't want to breathe them…

    Sorry, I meant second-hand effect studies. There isn't a lot of them but the last time I looked the amount of anything, including nicotine, that would be breathed by other people is negligible.

    On the user side, the first thing my surgeon friend said when I showed him my e-cig was that breathing anything at all will give you granulomas in your lungs. As you said, it's got to be an improvement from fags however you cut it!



  • @pjh
    my :eggplant: is 100% healthy!


  • BINNED

    @cursorkeys said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    On the user side, the first thing my surgeon friend said when I showed him my e-cig was that breathing anything at all will give you granulomas in your lungs.

    Time to ban all fossil fuel engines, then?

    Runs away before the post gets moved to the Garage


    Filed under: :trolleybus:



  • @onyx said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @cursorkeys said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    On the user side, the first thing my surgeon friend said when I showed him my e-cig was that breathing anything at all will give you granulomas in your lungs.

    Time to ban all fossil fuel engines, then?

    Runs away before the post gets moved to the Garage


    Filed under: :trolleybus:

    Absolutely not, what would I play with at weekends if they did that?

    And this thing I found says we should ban "other industries" first anyway based off the PM10 :trollface:





  • @cartman82 said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Maybe his thing is broken.

    :giggity:

    No, actually, some of them (the liquid they use, actually) are flavorless, while some have flavors added. He may be using a tobacco-flavored liquid. The liquid can also have more or less (or even no) nicotine in it, so smokers who want to wean themselves off of nicotine can do so without breaking the smoking habit.

    As the link I posted above would indicate, lots of places have made them illegal. Personally, I'd only really care if I could smell it, so an unflavored liquid or one that I didn't mind the smell of probably wouldn't bother me.



  • @hungrier said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @pjh
    This product contains nicotine*
    *when you put nicotine in it

    Makes about as much sense as "Caution, contents will be hot" on food that isn't hot until you microwave it.



  • @anotherusername said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Personally, I'd only really care if I could smell it, so an unflavored liquid or one that I didn't mind the smell of probably wouldn't bother me.

    So. Cloudchaser*, using unflavoured liquid. Opinion?...

    ... can you see to type your answer? Hello?


    @anotherusername said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Makes about as much sense as "Caution, contents will be hot" on food that isn't hot until you microwave it.

    s/will/may/g, but still.

    So. Perfect Sense to those in the dual Ivory Towers and High Horses of Big Public Health™ then. (See my earlier answer about portion sizes.)


    * High VG in proportion to PG produces lots of visible 'smoke'; vice versa. http://vaping360.com/pg-vs-vg-what-is-the-difference-and-what-should-i-use/ for anyone interested in increasing their knowledge.



  • @pjh said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @anotherusername said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Personally, I'd only really care if I could smell it, so an unflavored liquid or one that I didn't mind the smell of probably wouldn't bother me.

    So. Cloudchaser*, using unflavoured liquid. Opinion?...

    If it's that dense, it's probably dense enough to pick up and carry the smell of their breath. I'll pass... even if I can't smell it, it's gross.

    @anotherusername said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    Makes about as much sense as "Caution, contents will be hot" on food that isn't hot until you microwave it.

    s/will/may/g, but still.

    That actually does make some sense, because the point of the warning is usually that the inside of the food may be scalding hot when the outside seems cool enough to eat. And while this should be common knowledge about microwaves, it's at least still a logical thing to warn people about.

    Being able to successfully sue because a package of food didn't warn you about how microwaves work, though, is pretty stupid.



  • Back in 2013, a colleague used them. And he used them throughout the day. It never bothered me one bit, and I am very adverse to second-hand smoke. Nobody else seemed to care, either. There was a smell, but it was pleasant to me, almost a very light perfume.

    But I suppose there must be some other e-cigs that have a more potent and obnoxious smell, because I can't imagine anyone being bothered by his, unless they had an allergic reaction or just had a bone to pick on principle.

    So, based on what I've observed myself: I have no problem with it, especially considering they tend to be more productive (less smoke breaks, etc.). However, if there are e-cigs that really do have a bad flavor or cause reactions, then by all means I can understand why people don't want them around.



  • @anotherusername said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    And while this should be common knowledge about microwaves, it's at least still a logical thing to warn people about.

    Some meme about "taking the warnings off everything and letting Darwin sort it out" springs to mind.



  • @e4tmyl33t said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    @pjh said in Electronic cigars in workplace - yay or nay?:

    The 10ml thing was, IIRC, justified with them mumbling something about the cheeldreen drinking it or somesuch nonsense reason. ICBA to go look up cites for that one.

    Wouldn't matter anyway. You chug 10ml, 30ml, or 240ml of nic liquid, you still gonna OD.

    These days the trend seems to be to dilute the liquid more for the large tank atomizers. A 3mg/ml liquid might not kill you if you down a 10ml bottle.



  • @maciejasjmj No, but you'd still be damn close to the LD50 (which IIRC is somewhere between .5-1 mg/kg of body weight) and suffering from a serious nicotine dosing.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    I may be alone in this, but I like vaping without nicotine, just for the heck of it. Are there any concerns for this, either health or for other people?


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to What the Daily WTF? was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.