So I'm putting this machine together...


  • Dupa

    So I'm putting a new machine together, because the one I've got is a bit dated, to put it mildly.

    My budget is a small one: ~$1300. I will probably be also needing a case, power supply and a radiator: these things I have no experience with.

    The goal is to build a machine that will allow for casual gaming (I don't play AAA titles much, mostly indie and sports games), but will be powerful enough to be a modern development machine.

    Right now I've been thinking about:

    1. Graphic card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 OC (~$150 in Poland)
    2. RAM: G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V Series DDR4 PC4-25600 3200MHz Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB (~$200 here in Poland)
    3. Mobo: ASROCK FATAL1TY AB350 GAMING K4 (~$120)
    4. CPU: AMD RYZEN 5 1600X 3,6GHZ (YD160XBCAEWOF) (~$270)
    5. SSD: Samsung EVO 850 500GB M.2 (~$200)

    Total for this shit is: $940. Now I need to add to this a radiator, power supply, case and a wifi network card. For the power supply, it seems I'd need something in the range of 450W. I figure it'll be ~$100 for the case, ~$90 for the PSU, I have no idea about the radiator, though I think wifi card should be ~$50. This gives us a total of $1180, so I'd be happy with that.

    Please, point out how the set I chose shows my gross incompetence and suggest stuff for the missing parts. :)



  • @kt_ I think you'll find you need more like a 650 or 850 watt PSU with that video card.

    Assuming the Amazon link is correct, you might consider lowering the clock and raising the memory-- overclocking PSUs is very rarely going to actually give you increased performance, but having 4 GB of memory certainly will.

    Cases are mostly two varieties:

    • Have a stupid pointless plexiglass cutout in the side
    • Are dignified and not clownish

    Sadly the dignified cases are a little bit more $$$ generally, but I can recommend Coolermaster as a brand for the case, it looks like their current dignified case is the CM 690: http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-ver-2/

    (BTW: one thing to look for in a case and mobo, make sure they both have AS MANY USB PORTS AS WILL PHYSICALLY FIT. Ideally the entire top of the case of a forest of tightly-packed USB ports. That particular case only has 2 USB 2.0 on top, so you're gonna want a ton on your mobo to make up for that.)

    As far as cooling:

    • Water-cooling is expensive and a waste of time. The only water cooled CPU system I had that was genuinely superior to an air-cooled system was my aluminum dually Mac G5. And it cost like $2700. My last gaming PC liquid cooling system leaked all over the goddamned motherboard and ruined everything, it was a fucking mess.
    • Coolermaster also makes good air coolers. I know nothing about AMD CPUs (I haven't had one since the Athlon 1800+) so I can't recommend a specific cooler, but I can recommend the brand.

    PSU: Even if you have to spend a bit extra, get the kind where the power cables unhook from both sides. Believe me, assembling your computer will be SO MUCH EASIER without having to deal with those super-thick mega-conjoined octopus wires cheap PSUs have. Coolermaster makes PSUs also. IIRC, the computer I'm suing right now has the V850: http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/power-supplies-by-wattage/v850/

    Imagine how much easier it'll be to assemble your computer when the back of your PSU looks like this:

    0_1508695048682_290_10_d31506b7597acc8e728f9af25a443bdf_1366687275.jpg

    Instead of this:

    0_1508695088375_images.jpg

    I've never heard of ASROCK, I have no clue if they actually make good motherboards, and signing FATAL1TY as a shill doesn't really instill me in confidence. (It does have 8 USB ports, which is good. 18 would be better. 800 would be ideal.) If I were you, I'd look into MSI or ASUS motherboards. I have experience with both those brands, and they're rock-solid reliable.

    Samsung is a good brand for SSDs, so no worries there.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Regarding PSU: Go for something that has an "80+" certification, avoid "gaming" PSUs (they're needlessly overpriced). Don't go for a needlessly powerful supply like so many seem to recommend - off the top of my head you should be fine with 350 W (the CPU TDP is 95W, the GPU should be 70W, the rest of the setup will take like 30 Watts on maximum load - so the 350W is more than enough). Also, manufacturers of hardware such as graphics cards tend to recommend needlessly powerful PSUs, disregard that completely - they do that to avoid complaints from people who bought shitty noname Chinese PSUs that can't actually deliver what they say they can, and they also have no way of knowing your entire build's power needs so they overestimate to err on the side of caution. Regarding brands, Seasonic is really solid; my current setup has an Enermax but I think those tend to be pretty expensive. I got mine one for free.

    Case: if you have money to spare for something a bit more expensive I'd go for a Fractal Define - I never had one myself but people love them. They look awesome, the build quality is apparently excellent, they have a plenty of space and the fans that come with them are pretty quiet. If you want to save money, Cooler Master has a really good budget line. Also, I'd avoid anything with a mesh, like the one Blakey posted above, because those things are goddamn dust magnets and cleaning them is really annoying.

    Heatsink: I have a Scythe Ninja 4 on a (mildly) overclocked Core i5-6600K and I have no complaints. Before that I had a Gelid Tranquilo on an overclocked AMD Phenom II X4 and it worked great, too.

    Regarding the rest of the build, are you sure you can't pay a bit extra for a GTX 1060? The performance difference is pretty huge. Then again, so is the price difference, in Blekistan the 1060 costs about twice as much as the 1050. Maybe a 1050 Ti?

    Oh and ~200 dollars for 16 gigs of memory? You should be able to get that for less, about ~150.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ I think you'll find you need more like a 650 or 850 watt PSU with that video card.

    That's absolutely not true.



  • @blek said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Fractal Define

    Suitably dignified, if you go for the no-window version.

    @blek said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Also, I'd avoid anything with a mesh, like the one Blakey posted above, because those things are goddamn dust magnets and cleaning them is really annoying.

    Yeah now that I look at it, the one I have is a different model with a solid face. Still, the only bit of the mesh that has airflow across it (and thus would pick up dust) is the bit in front of the fan, and that fan would pick up dust no matter where its intake was.

    My main point is: buy a dignified case, and also Coolermaster is a good brand.


  • Fake News

    @blek said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ I think you'll find you need more like a 650 or 850 watt PSU with that video card.

    That's absolutely not true.

    Ehhh, maybe not a 850W PSU but for a PC with discrete graphics card I'd still stay on the safe side and go for 500W or up.

    The more a PSU gets loaded, the likelier one of the different voltages goes out of spec and efficiency might go down. Depending on where you locate your PSU in your case, its ambient temperature might go up which slightly influences regulation but most of all influences the lifetime of its capacitors. Since an "overbuilt" PSU will likely have more heatsinks and a stronger fan than a lower spec one it should in theory last longer and have "spare room" for further components.

    And if you didn't already click through from the links above, check out jonnyGURU's PSU reviews as they actually take the things apart.


  • Fake News

    @kt_ said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    ...

    1. RAM: G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V Series DDR4 PC4-25600 3200MHz Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB (~$200 here in Poland)
    2. Mobo: ASROCK FATAL1TY AB350 GAMING K4 (~$120)

    ...

    Word of caution: my brother had a Ryzen build which wouldn't boot when I assembled it fresh out of the box because he chose memory without consulting the vendor's qualified hardware lists. When we returned the thing to the shop they plugged memory from a qualified brand in and it booted immediately. @izzion hinted at the fact that RAM can have different architectures for their memory chips, and some motherboards / CPUs require a certain type.

    In this case, your chosen mobo's memory QVL does NOT list the G.Skill F4-3200C16D-16GVKB memory. I can imagine that they can't test every type of kit out there, but if possible you should stick to one from the list.


  • Dupa

    OK, so let me revise the tuff you said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Cases are mostly two varieties:

    • Have a stupid pointless plexiglass cutout in the side
    • Are dignified and not clownish

    Sadly the dignified cases are a little bit more $$$ generally, but I can recommend Coolermaster as a brand for the case, it looks like their current dignified case is the CM 690: http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-ver-2/

    (BTW: one thing to look for in a case and mobo, make sure they both have AS MANY USB PORTS AS WILL PHYSICALLY FIT. Ideally the entire top of the case of a forest of tightly-packed USB ports. That particular case only has 2 USB 2.0 on top, so you're gonna want a ton on your mobo to make up for that.)

    @blek said:

    Case: if you have money to spare for something a bit more expensive I'd go for a Fractal Define - I never had one myself but people love them. They look awesome, the build quality is apparently excellent, they have a plenty of space and the fans that come with them are pretty quiet. If you want to save money, Cooler Master has a really good budget line. Also, I'd avoid anything with a mesh, like the one Blakey posted above, because those things are goddamn dust magnets and cleaning them is really annoying.

    I really like this one. It seems to be a bit more expensive than $100, but I could swallow that cost (it's around $120):

    It's god 4 USB ports in the front (2x2.0, 2x3.0), is beautiful, nicely extendable and has 2 slots dedicated for SSDs. It's quite heavy, though, at 10kg, but I won't really be carrying it around, so...

    This one is also nice and a bit cheaper, but only has 2 USB ports (fortunately, 3.0):

    @blakeyrat said:

    PSU: Even if you have to spend a bit extra, get the kind where the power cables unhook from both sides. Believe me, assembling your computer will be SO MUCH EASIER without having to deal with those super-thick mega-conjoined octopus wires cheap PSUs have. Coolermaster makes PSUs also. IIRC, the computer I'm suing right now has the V850: http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/power-supplies-by-wattage/v850/

    @blek said:

    Regarding PSU: Go for something that has an "80+" certification, avoid "gaming" PSUs (they're needlessly overpriced). Don't go for a needlessly powerful supply like so many seem to recommend - off the top of my head you should be fine with 350 W (the CPU TDP is 95W, the GPU should be 70W, the rest of the setup will take like 30 Watts on maximum load - so the 350W is more than enough). Also, manufacturers of hardware such as graphics cards tend to recommend needlessly powerful PSUs, disregard that completely - they do that to avoid complaints from people who bought shitty noname Chinese PSUs that can't actually deliver what they say they can, and they also have no way of knowing your entire build's power needs so they overestimate to err on the side of caution. Regarding brands, Seasonic is really solid; my current setup has an Enermax but I think those tend to be pretty expensive. I got mine one for free.

    @JBert said:

    Ehhh, maybe not a 850W PSU but for a PC with discrete graphics card I'd still stay on the safe side and go for 500W or up.

    The more a PSU gets loaded, the likelier one of the different voltages goes out of spec and efficiency might go down. Depending on where you locate your PSU in your case, its ambient temperature might go up which slightly influences regulation but most of all influences the lifetime of its capacitors. Since an overbuilt PSU will likely have more thermal heatsinks and a stronger fan than a lower spec one it should in theory last longer and have " spare room" for further components.

    OK, so there's Seasonic G-series 650W, it goes for around $125. It would probably do.

    @blakeyrat said:

    I've never heard of ASROCK, I have no clue if they actually make good motherboards, and signing FATAL1TY as a shill doesn't really instill me in confidence. (It does have 8 USB ports, which is good. 18 would be better. 800 would be ideal.) If I were you, I'd look into MSI or ASUS motherboards. I have experience with both those brands, and they're rock-solid reliable.

    There's this thingy: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ARCTIC. It has M2, it's got 4 DDR4 USB slots which can handle 3200MHz. It's around $120, so the same as ASRock.

    @blek said:

    Heatsink: I have a Scythe Ninja 4 on a (mildly) overclocked Core i5-6600K and I have no complaints. Before that I had a Gelid Tranquilo on an overclocked AMD Phenom II X4 and it worked great, too.

    It seems I'll go with this one: Scythe "Katana 4" CPU Cooler SCKTN-4000. It's compatible with AM4.

    @blek said:

    Regarding the rest of the build, are you sure you can't pay a bit extra for a GTX 1060? The performance difference is pretty huge. Then again, so is the price difference, in Blekistan the 1060 costs about twice as much as the 1050. Maybe a 1050 Ti?

    I've been thinking about this. I mean, Ti is 50% more expensive, 1060 is twice as much. However, I'd really love to do one of these "buy the PC and forget for a few years" thingy, buying a better graphics card would probably help with that.

    I'll have to mull this over.


    One thing that bothers me and I'm not really sure: is it a good idea to go with AMD vs. Intel? It seems they offer better performance/price ratio when it comes to multithreading, so probably this would be much better for development work, right?


  • Dupa

    @jbert said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    ...

    1. RAM: G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V Series DDR4 PC4-25600 3200MHz Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB (~$200 here in Poland)
    2. Mobo: ASROCK FATAL1TY AB350 GAMING K4 (~$120)

    ...

    Word of caution: my brother had a Ryzen build which wouldn't boot when I assembled it fresh out of the box because he chose memory without consulting the vendor's qualified hardware lists. When we returned the thing to the shop they plugged memory from a qualified brand in and it booted immediately. @izzion hinted at the fact that RAM can have different architectures for their memory chips, and some motherboards / CPUs require a certain type.

    In this case, your chosen mobo's memory QVL does NOT list the G.Skill F4-3200C16D-16GVKB memory. I can imagine that they can't test every type of kit out there, but if possible you should stick to one from the list.

    Good tip, thanks. :thumbsup:



  • @kt_ said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    It seems I'll go with this one: Scythe "Katana 4" CPU Cooler SCKTN-4000. It's compatible with AM4.

    Since fans are dirt-cheap, and since the photo shows that this cooler can take dual fans, you might consider shoving a spare fan on your cart. I dunno, probably won't make a difference, honestly...


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Regarding ASRock, I believe that's owned by ASUS and they use it as their budget line - using a car analogy it's kinda like Volkswagen uses Skoda. It shouldn't be a problem, I haven't owned one of these myself but I see them pretty often for lower-budget builds.

    Regarding a second fan on the heatsink, that's probably going to be overkill and all it's going to do is it'll make the PC a tiny bit louder.


  • Dupa

    So I looked around and I think I’ve got this kinda figured out. Imma ditch this whole AMD idea, I read up on Ryzens and it seems they aren’t really worth it for me. I think I’ll go with i5-7600k after all with a Gigabyte Z270 Gaming K3 board. It’s got an M2 connector, USB type C and USB 3.1 gen 2 with ASMedia. Plus 8 USB 3 and 6 USB 2. It’s gonna cost around the same as the AMD setup. Now I just need to figure out RAM for this.

    I’m wondering, is it worth it to OC DDR4 to 3200?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @kt_
    Unless you're going to mess around with extreme overclocking the CPU (beyond just tinkering with the multiplier, but also tinkering with the base clock speed), you won't get any significant value out of going beyond 2400MHz for the RAM. The base design for the CPU is for that 2400MHz speed. https://ark.intel.com/products/97144


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @kt_ Damn, I didn't even notice the Ryzen was even more expensive than a mid-range K series Intel...

    Speaking of which, you might be able to save some money if you go for the previous generation Core i5. The performance difference won't be too much and you might be able to save a ton of money if find a shop getting rid of old stock.

    About RAM frequencies - I don't think they really matter to most people. Pretty much the only ones who overclock their memory by any significant amount are competition overclockers trying to get a couple more points in PCMark or whatever benchmark is relevant at the moment. I wouldn't worry about it too much.


  • Dupa

    @blek said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ Damn, I didn't even notice the Ryzen was even more expensive than a mid-range K series Intel...

    Yeah, actually it hit me, too, once I started looking around again.

    Speaking of which, you might be able to save some money if you go for the previous generation Core i5. The performance difference won't be too much and you might be able to save a ton of money if find a shop getting rid of old stock.

    Looking at price comparison tools, 6600k goes for $15 less than 7600k. It’s a no brainer.

    About RAM frequencies - I don't think they really matter to most people. Pretty much the only ones who overclock their memory by any significant amount are competition overclockers trying to get a couple more points in PCMark or whatever benchmark is relevant at the moment. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

    From what I read, it would matter for a Ryzen, because RAM speed influences communication speed between CCX modules. However, price differences between different speeds of DDR4 16GB are negligible. I just went through the compatibility list for the mobo I chose and it seems it doesn’t support 16GB combos for lower speeds at all and when it does, there’s little difference in price to those clocked higher.

    Reading forums, it seems there’s been a bump in RAM prices recently, this could be why you were so surprised by that $220 price tag, since it seems to be a norm. ;)



  • @kt_ said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    I’m wondering, is it worth it to OC DDR4 to 3200?

    Never.

    To all questions that begin "is it worth it to overclock..." the answer is never.



  • @blakeyrat well, with gaming PCs, nothing is ever worth it in general - you're gonna spend shitload of money on something that gets obsolete the moment it's delivered - not to mention it's all just a toy, so you'll never gonna get any of the money spent back. "Worth it" is just a wrong question to ask in this case - what matters is how much you're willing to spend for those extra frames per second, and then decide which combination of parts yields the best result.

    That said. RAM speed is the last thing to worry about even when you are overclocking. Like, do everything else first, and if you have time and money to spare, only them get to RAM speed.



  • I'll second the thing about the 1050 vs the 1060. If you can make the budget work for a 1060, it's probably worth it. You maybe can't make up the whole difference in terms of cheaper components; still, I'd go for (for example) a bit cheaper RAM (~$30) given what I can pick over here. Given the choice between a 1060 instead of a 1050 vs. M.2 or SATA, I'd probably go for a SATA SSD (another $30 around here). $210 gets you a 1060 here.

    Regarding the case. It's pretty much up to your taste+budget. The only thing that I recommend is getting one that's spacey inside, since that makes assembling+maintenance less of a PITA. I usually end up click through a youtube video where they show the case (if I can find one) to get a feeling for it. (I don't care whether or not there's a window, but YMMV.)



  • @blakeyrat @kt_ I think you'll find you need more like a 650 or 850 watt PSU with that video card.

    No, he won't. The power draw on a 1050 is 70w and a Ryzen 1600X is about 170. He's got more than enough juice, I'm running a 1060GTX and 1600X now with an EVGA 450W without any issues - actually, his build is nearly identical to mine except i'm running on pure air.

    I've never heard of ASROCK, I have no clue if they actually make good motherboards, and signing FATAL1TY as a shill doesn't really instill me in confidence.

    Hit and miss, check the reviews really. I'm running an ASRock but not that twat Fatal1ty's line. I met him at an event in London many, many years ago when I was an impressionable teenager and thought he was a complete tit.

    Regarding PSU: Go for something that has an "80+" certification, avoid "gaming" PSUs (they're needlessly overpriced). Don't go for a needlessly powerful supply like so many seem to recommend - off the top of my head you should be fine with 350 W (the CPU TDP is 95W, the GPU should be 70W, the rest of the setup will take like 30 Watts on maximum load - so the 350W is more than enough).

    TDP might be 95w but a significant number of benching sites are showing it pulls a lot more. 450w would be fine. Definitely go for 80+, bronze, silver, etc. Don't go cheap on PSU's and don't get fully-modular gaming PSU's pushing 1100w unless you're planning to run dual CPU's with 2 1080Ti's and a full rack of drives.

    I'll second the thing about the 1050 vs the 1060. If you can make the budget work for a 1060, it's probably worth it. You maybe can't make up the whole difference in terms of cheaper components; still, I'd go for (for example) a bit cheaper RAM (~$30) given what I can pick over here. Given the choice between a 1060 instead of a 1050 vs. M.2 or SATA, I'd probably go for a SATA SSD (another $30 around here). $210 gets you a 1060 here.

    This. Even the 1060 3GB will destroy a 1050 in gaming. I have a 3GB in our media center machine and a 6GB in our main PC (Different CPU's) but when I swap them and benched, the results were so close it was more or less irrelevant - as this article shows the differences are usually 0.1-0.5% at anything under 4k


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @kt_ My 2¢: Hard drives are useful, perhaps get one so you're not constricted to 500GB. All my programs go on my SSD, all my documents and miscellaneous shit on the HDD.

    Also, I'm not too familiar with PC parts and their specs, but it looks like my laptop (the Gigabyte P55Wr7) is actually more powerful than the build you've laid out up here, for about $70 more. This is just a basic analysis with zero background knowledge, though.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Water-cooling is expensive and a waste of time. The only water cooled CPU system I had that was genuinely superior to an air-cooled system was my aluminum dually Mac G5. And it cost like $2700. My last gaming PC liquid cooling system leaked all over the goddamned motherboard and ruined everything, it was a fucking mess.

    What are your thoughts on mineral oil cooling?



  • @jbert said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    ...

    1. RAM: G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V Series DDR4 PC4-25600 3200MHz Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB (~$200 here in Poland)
    2. Mobo: ASROCK FATAL1TY AB350 GAMING K4 (~$120)

    ...

    Word of caution: my brother had a Ryzen build which wouldn't boot when I assembled it fresh out of the box because he chose memory without consulting the vendor's qualified hardware lists. When we returned the thing to the shop they plugged memory from a qualified brand in and it booted immediately. @izzion hinted at the fact that RAM can have different architectures for their memory chips, and some motherboards / CPUs require a certain type.

    In this case, your chosen mobo's memory QVL does NOT list the G.Skill F4-3200C16D-16GVKB memory. I can imagine that they can't test every type of kit out there, but if possible you should stick to one from the list.

    PC Part Picker isn't complaining

    PSU: Just search Jonny Guru for the one you plan to get and make sure he says it isn't trash.

    Heatsink/Fans: Noctua. I love my Noctua heatsink, even if the brown colors are a bit weird. I never hear the fan.

    And yeah, PCPP gives an estimated wattage of 264. 450W will probably be fine. I'd probably go 550W or 650W though for the $10.

    ...And then the setup changed.



  • @kt_

    @blek said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Go for something that has an "80+" certification, avoid "gaming" PSUs (they're needlessly overpriced). Don't go for a needlessly powerful supply like so many seem to recommend - off the top of my head you should be fine with 350 W.

    Yeah, you don't need to go overboard, but plan for the future as well. If you plan on upgrading the machine over time, than having a larger PSU now makes sense. I also highly recommend the modular power supplies, easier to route cables and you can fit them to your needs as you expand your machine.

    Case: I would recommend a full sized case simply for ease of putting things together, mid tower cases can get really cramped. Whatever case you decide on, check the size of the video card and the layout of the case. It is possible to have cases that you can't physically fit the card into because of the way they designed the drive enclosures.

    Cooling: A self-enclosed prefab water cooling set will run you about 25% more than a premium heatsink, you get reduced fan noise as a benefit (unless you start overclocking). So unless you really care about the fan noise, just go with the air cooling.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    I think you'll find you need more like a 650 or 850 watt PSU with that video card.

    Nah. That GPU maxes out at 75watts. Most people buy more power supply than they need.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Assuming the Amazon link is correct, you might consider lowering the clock and raising the memory-- overclocking PSUs is very rarely going to actually give you increased performance, but having 4 GB of memory certainly will.

    I have no idea what you are trying to say here. It reads as gibberish.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Cases are mostly two varieties:

    Have a stupid pointless plexiglass cutout in the side
    Are dignified and not clownish

    Sadly the dignified cases are a little bit more $$$ generally, but I can recommend Coolermaster as a brand for the case, it looks like their current dignified case is the CM 690: http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-ver-2/

    Yes. Coolermaster, Thermaltake, Antec, Zalman, Lian-li, etc. All good cases. Cheap cases are horrible to build in.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    (BTW: one thing to look for in a case and mobo, make sure they both have AS MANY USB PORTS AS WILL PHYSICALLY FIT. Ideally the entire top of the case of a forest of tightly-packed USB ports. That particular case only has 2 USB 2.0 on top, so you're gonna want a ton on your mobo to make up for that.)

    Agreed again. But I prefer to keep my tower away from the desk and use a USB hub on my desk. I never use the USB ports on my workstation's case with the odd exception of occasionally pluggin in a thumb drive. More is better, but you are also unlikely to use more than 1-2 most of the time.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Water-cooling is expensive and a waste of time. The only water cooled CPU system I had that was genuinely superior to an air-cooled system was my aluminum dually Mac G5. And it cost like $2700. My last gaming PC liquid cooling system leaked all over the goddamned motherboard and ruined everything, it was a fucking mess.

    Not really. I water cool to keep my machine quiet. I don't care about overclocking. I just want a quiet computer. Quiet even when I have all the cores maxed out. To that end I bought a Corsair AIO watercooling system. I am happy with it, but I did have to RMA it once due to the pump dying.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    PSU: Even if you have to spend a bit extra, get the kind where the power cables unhook from both sides. Believe me, assembling your computer will be SO MUCH EASIER without having to deal with those super-thick mega-conjoined octopus wires cheap PSUs have. Coolermaster makes PSUs also. IIRC, the computer I'm suing right now has the V850: http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/power-supplies-by-wattage/v850/
    Imagine how much easier it'll be to assemble your computer when the back of your PSU looks like this:

    Agreed. Modular is the only way to go these days. Only use the cords that you need and keep the rat's nest of wires out of your case.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    I've never heard of ASROCK, I have no clue if they actually make good motherboards, and signing FATAL1TY as a shill doesn't really instill me in confidence.

    ASRock motherboards are not bad. They make some quality stuff.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    If I were you, I'd look into MSI or ASUS motherboards. I have experience with both those brands, and they're rock-solid reliable.

    Also Gigabyte. MSI, ASUS, Gigabyte and ASRock all make good motherboards. ASRock has a good market for long term support motherboards that they sell to systems integrators so they can make sure that their boards will be available for years to come. They are used by small market appliance manufacturers for DVRs, VoIP, Fax appliances and other uses where you want to make sure you can buy those boards in a few years.

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Samsung is a good brand for SSDs, so no worries there.

    Also Corsair, Crucial, Intel and OCZ. We use all of those brands and have never had any major issues.



  • @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    What are your thoughts on mineral oil cooling?

    Well it'd be less harmful if it leaked I suppose.

    I still think liquid cooling is a waste of time. CPUs have gotten cooler (since the P4s when liquid really took off), and coolers have gotten more efficient with more metal and bigger fans.



  • @polygeekery said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    I have no idea what you are trying to say here. It reads as gibberish.

    It is gibberish because I typed PSU instead of GPU. Sorry.


  • Dupa

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ My 2¢: Hard drives are useful, perhaps get one so you're not constricted to 500GB. All my programs go on my SSD, all my documents and miscellaneous shit on the HDD.

    That’s the plan. I’ve a 1TB HDD for stuff, 500GB SSD M2 will be for he OS and programs.

    Also, I'm not too familiar with PC parts and their specs, but it looks like my laptop (the Gigabyte P55Wr7) is actually more powerful than the build you've laid out up here, for about $70 more. This is just a basic analysis with zero background knowledge, though.

    Lemme check, but if you’re lying!…


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    What are your thoughts on mineral oil cooling?

    Well it'd be less harmful if it leaked I suppose.

    I still think liquid cooling is a waste of time. CPUs have gotten cooler (since the P4s when liquid really took off), and coolers have gotten more efficient with more metal and bigger fans.

    I mean, the point is that there is no leak. The point is to flood the components completely; leaks go on the components, and the idea is to get the mineral oil on the components.


  • Dupa

    @kt_ said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_ My 2¢: Hard drives are useful, perhaps get one so you're not constricted to 500GB. All my programs go on my SSD, all my documents and miscellaneous shit on the HDD.

    That’s the plan. I’ve a 1TB HDD for stuff, 500GB SSD M2 will be for he OS and programs.

    Also, I'm not too familiar with PC parts and their specs, but it looks like my laptop (the Gigabyte P55Wr7) is actually more powerful than the build you've laid out up here, for about $70 more. This is just a basic analysis with zero background knowledge, though.

    Lemme check, but if you’re lying!…

    @pie_flavor you were extremely wrong:

    0_1508795438802_64EF193D-23EC-45CD-A176-D97E3D525C3E.png


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @blakeyrat said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Water-cooling is expensive and a waste of time. The only water cooled CPU system I had that was genuinely superior to an air-cooled system was my aluminum dually Mac G5. And it cost like $2700. My last gaming PC liquid cooling system leaked all over the goddamned motherboard and ruined everything, it was a fucking mess.

    What are your thoughts on mineral oil cooling?

    It is a novelty. Nothing more. It also makes working on your computer a complete and total mess. The one person I know of who has done it laid out drop cloths and garbage bags in his kitchen "Dexter-style" (his words) when he needed to swap out a graphics card.


  • Dupa

    @kt_ also, I’m thinking about this one, now. Would just need to wait a month or two for them to become GA.

    0_1508795602765_56129DB9-4AD4-4652-9765-E5CACF1A96DD.png



  • @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    but it looks like my laptop (the Gigabyte P55Wr7) is actually more powerful than the build you've laid out

    I've yet to meet a laptop that doesn't run into a bunch of thermal issues. (Or, rather, the ones where it's not a huge issue barely qualify as a laptop.)

    Even medium sized builds run into thermal issues on my laptop. So, IMO, if you don't need the portability of a laptop, don't get a laptop.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @cvi said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    but it looks like my laptop (the Gigabyte P55Wr7) is actually more powerful than the build you've laid out

    I've yet to meet a laptop that doesn't run into a bunch of thermal issues. (Or, rather, the ones where it's not a huge issue barely qualify as a laptop.)

    Even medium sized builds run into thermal issues on my laptop. So, IMO, if you don't need the portability of a laptop, don't get a laptop.

    I've never had thermal issues, not even with huge CPU/GPU usage. The only time I've had anything even approaching one was where I ran a tripcode generator on the GPU for a few hours.



  • @kt_
    You can always wait a few months for a new chip.



  • @polygeekery said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Cheap cases are horrible to build in.

    I dunno, I got some cheap Rosewill one for my last PC build and aside from some annoying lighting (blue power LED brighter than a thousand suns, front fan with blue LEDs that I swapped with the non-lit one from the back) it was ok.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @hungrier I have built in cheap cases, and I have built in "good" cases. The "good" cases have smoother edges, more places to hide/tuck cables, easier mounting options for everything, cleaner layouts.

    With that being said, for the most part it is only once or twice that you will have to deal with it. If you want to save some money and don't care about the pluses I lined out, go for the cheap case.

    The last time I upgraded my machine I was looking for good support for water cooling so I bought a Thermaltake (I think?) cube case. I liked it and it was not obscenely expensive. For me the price difference between cheap and better cases is a non-point.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @dragoon said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    You can always wait a few months for a new chip.

    You obviously don't build AMD machines...


  • Dupa

    @dragoon said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @kt_
    You can always wait a few months for a new chip.

    Look at the screenshot. It’s i5 Coffee Lake. They premiered a few days ago, but are hard to get. The grapevine says they should be available again in November.



  • @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    I've never had thermal issues, not even with huge CPU/GPU usage.

    I count not running at full tilt when there's demand to do so as a "thermal issue". And that's with a mobile chip that's often already rated for a lower clock rate than its desktop counterpart.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @cvi said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    I've never had thermal issues, not even with huge CPU/GPU usage.

    I count not running at full tilt when there's demand to do so as a "thermal issue".

    Either that's a syntax error, or I've got an outdated compiler.



  • @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Either that's a syntax error, or I've got an outdated compiler.

    Why not both? :trolleybus:

    Either way, I'm trying to say that I consider the following to be a thermal issue: you're using 100% of the available CPU time, but the CPU is running at a lower frequency because it gets too hot.

    A symptom of this is that a CPU intensive task will finish measurably faster if you hold your laptop outside of a window in winter.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @cvi said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    @pie_flavor said in So I'm putting this machine together...:

    Either that's a syntax error, or I've got an outdated compiler.

    Why not both? :trolleybus:

    Either way, I'm trying to say that I consider the following to be a thermal issue: you're using 100% of the available CPU time, but the CPU is running at a lower frequency because it gets too hot.

    A symptom of this is that a CPU intensive task will finish measurably faster if you hold your laptop outside of a window in winter.

    The CPU is definitely more powerful than whatever I'm using it for (most intensive tasks probably being Minecraft + server + two instances of IntelliJ). GPU is my goal here, and I've never seen it have a heat problem unless I'm using it at literal max capacity for hours.


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