Re: Defend something you disagree with

  • @Yamikuronue said in Defend something you disagree with:

    When you tread the same paths over and over in your mind, your neurons form patterns, and it can be hard to jar yourself out of that way of thinking. But it's useful to try.

    In this mega-thread, defend a position you disagree with. The more you disagree with it, the better. But it has to be a real justification. You have to be able to explain how someone thinks this way, find the places where they're right and the places where they diverge from you. If you want to argue with someone, don't argue your own opinion; argue with people saying things you agree with by disagreeing with them.

    As this is the salon, you have to be civil about it; in this thread, however, feel free to use 🏳 to bow out of a discussion when you just can't come up with a defense for the POV you're temporarily adopting, since, you know, you probably agree with the things you're defending against.

    I'll start in the next post.

    I'm hesitant about posting this, and I hope this is a place that makes sense to do it:

    I'm seriously worried about this thread. I really like the idea of the thread, and everything in the OP, and definitely think a thread like this could be an advantage. So far, though, the conversation that is going on seems to be people trying to wield strawman arguments for their opponent to defeat, rather than people trying to understand the opposition's opinion and argue it in good faith. The reason I say this is that, despite the way it may seem to some, people here do not seem to have very extreme positions, relatively speaking. So the positions right now are ones that even the most extreme in their directions here will likely find odious and insulting.

    There's a lot of potential for damage there, as instead of trying to understand the perspective and argue it, it could very easily result in more and more exaggerated bad-faith arguments.

    I don't think that's happening now; right now, it looks to me like the posts in this thread are all made in good faith, or near enough. I just hope that people will be cognizant of the risk, because of the potential for hurt that could result. Please be careful.

  • @magus I've muted the "civilized salon", because it's just like the trolleybus garage with sugar-coating. (except it's doesn't taste good like sugar)

  • @magus

    To be honest, I find this very difficult.

    A lot of the arguments on the internet are very emotionally charged. So if I were to take a dispassionate argument for something I disagree with, I'd struggle to find the nuggets of logical reasoning.

    For example. The whole kneeling thing going on.

    On one side, police brutality affects everyone, and I'd expect everyone to agree that it's a problem. On the other side, it really is just an anthem. I don't want to watch the game get political, and so I just turn it off.

    Neither one of those matches the arguments being made.

    As soon as I argue that police brutality is a problem for everyone, (both sides respectfully) I'm co-opting a black protest and that's racist, or I hate police.
    As soon as I argue that fans can choose not to watch, and that they ultimately pay for the show, I'm racist, or I'm not a patriot.

    So, I don't know what the fuck to do.

    I remember there being red-light cameras in my area, and I argued that they lowered yellow light times to rack up more tickets and thus ended up with more collisions than before. Someone's mom came out and shouted me down how it was necessary to save lives.

    I always say that people aren't really logical beings. They're emotional beings who can be logical.

  • Impossible Mission - B

    @xaade said in Re: Defend something you disagree with:

    On one side, police brutality affects everyone

    Does it? I don't personally know anyone at all who's ever been affected by it.

  • @masonwheeler said in Re: Defend something you disagree with:

    @xaade said in Re: Defend something you disagree with:

    On one side, police brutality affects everyone

    Does it? I don't personally know anyone at all who's ever been affected by it.

    I apologize.

    Every race, creed, religion, etc.

  • Impossible Mission - B

    @xaade OK, that makes more sense.

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