How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?


  • :belt_onion:

    Looks like the 7 people still using Firefox are going to be pissed

    Firefox Active Daily Installations:
    0_1504815945710_desktop_percentage.png



  • https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/22.0/win32/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%2022.0.exe



  • @el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    I use Firefox Focus on mobile. I like it, but it won't convince me to use Firefox on desktop.


  • Fake News

    In fact, I have already switched. I'm actually rooting for extension developers porting stuff to this fork, so maybe I should go lobby Mozilla to include "instrumentation" for "browser improvement purposes". Yes, let's transmit all the clicks!


  • Fake News

    What is the vertical axis supposed to be showing? It's currently near -22%, but percentage of what?



  • I will shamelessly return here just to complain about this loudly


  • Fake News

    @shamelesssockpuppet Ah. You must be a regular here.



  • @jbert his avatar is a gray-scale version of @CreatedToDislikeThis 's



  • So this means that there is now no browser that supports proper Tree Style Tabs

    Still, Vivaldi comes closest, and without needing any extensions. So that's what I'll keep using.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    I just bent over and switched to Vivaldi. Yes, it's basically Chrome, yes, it has more bugs than a hobo's mattress - but the one thing I require in a browser is vertical tabs. Vivaldi implements those pretty poorly (no nesting), but it's still better than almost any other browser out there.

    Yes, Palemoon is a thing that exists, but another thing I like about Vivaldi is that while it consumes seemingly unlimited amounts of memory, at least it doesn't run like absolute shit while it does that, unlike Firefox and all of its clones which consume slightly less than infinite memory but make almost every single website jittery as fuck, regardless of the hardware they run on.


  • Fake News

    @wharrgarbl said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @jbert his avatar is a gray-scale version of @CreatedToDislikeThis 's

    Please read the content of the post to which I replied together with my reply. :whoosh:



  • I'm currently using a mix of Chrome and Edge because despite the constant messages I get in Edge that "YouTube works better in Chrome!", YouTube actually works worse in Chrome most of the time. I used to use FireFox for YouTube but then YouTube and FireFox stopped cooperating the way I needed them to. Though if Tampermonkey was supported in the new FireFox, I wouldn't really have any issues switching back to FireFox when Edge stops cooperating.



  • @anonymous234 Just use bookmarks like a normal person. You can put them in as many folders as you like.



  • @el_heffe Brave dude



  • I don't know. I have only 5 addons installed:

    It's very useful when you have to download a lot of files from a page but I have to do that maybe once a year.

    This is being converted to WebExtension.

    I can live without this.

    I use this all the time. But it doesn't seem hard to reimplement as a WebExt. I could even do that myself.

    ...and Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant which got there automatically; though it adds ClickOnce support which I use occasionally.



  • Just use brave or opera.


  • area_can

    Kinda sucks because 57 is supposed to be faster and responsive on multicore machines. I really hope tree tabs can at least be migrated to webextensions.



  • @bb36e No it won't because you can't have choice.


  • area_can

    @blakeyrat said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @anonymous234 Just use bookmarks like a normal person. You can put them in as many folders as you like.

    And delete them when I'm done browsing? And manually nest and organize them as I open tabs? That sounds really slow and annoying



  • @bb36e Some people trade performance for features. It like it has never happened before in computing.


  • area_can

    @lucas1 yeah, I dunno -- from what I've read, if everyone moves to webrxtensions then it may be easier to introduce more advanced and further customization across browsers, but it seems like Chrome has just been removing stuff like ui customization so /shrug



  • @bb36e I think want everything done through their store.

    I am using opera more and it has most of the same plugins for dev. It is good enough for now.

    I've been looking at Pale Moon and Brave. But honestly, clients expect me to be work in chrome first and everything else second.



  • Sounds like it's time for me to replace Firefox with Pale Moon on the one PC I still have it.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @lorne-kates said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/22.0/win32/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%2022.0.exe


  • area_can

    @sloosecannon thankfully, modern malware scripts eventually fail to run on FF22 due to JS incompatibility



  • I imagine I will keep using Firefox. The main issue is that Roomy Bookmarks Bar won't work anymore, so I won't be able to have a lot of bookmarks in my bookmarks bar. I don't like Pale Moon because I don't like the ancient UI, being horribly behind in HTML5 support and having to use user agent hacks to make everything work. Also, I would have to make a new profile.


  • :belt_onion:

    @lucas1 said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @el_heffe Brave dude

    Tried it. What a bag of suck.


  • :belt_onion:

    @lucas1 said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Just use brave or opera.



  • @bb36e Same goes for "modern" websites, unfortunately.


  • SockDev

    Firefocalypse


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    I don't know what all the fuss is about. I use Chrome.



  • I'll wait until after release and see how much things will really break for me. Despite the Chrome copycatting I still prefer Firefox over Chrome for now at least.



  • @el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Looks like the 7 people still using Firefox are going to be pissed

    Meh. No more than usual.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    many of which I just cannot live without

    This sort of hyperbole pisses me off. Oh, you'd literally die if your browser stopped allowing you to do whatever shit you've decided is essential? I hate to think what you'd do if your Internet went down or your computer failed.

    Most people will adjust their workflows. Some will move to other browsers. Some will stick on the older version until cumulative incompatibilities make it too inconvenient. Nobody will die or change career.



  • Still, losing Tab Groups again will suck. Does Pale Moon support this add-on? If so, I might switch just because of it (well, that, and Adblock Plus; I presume I don't need "unfuck astral-syphillis" (as blakeyrat once nicknamed it) on Pale Moon?).

    Edit: Wow, FF 55.0.3 calls all of my extensions "obsolete". This is going to suck.


  • :belt_onion:

    @medinoc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    I presume I don't need "unfuck astral-syphillis" (as blakeyrat once nicknamed it) on Pale Moon?.

    Correct. The introduction of the Assholio UI was what pushed me over to Palemoon three years ago.

    Palemoon doesn't use any of that nonsense and many/most add-ons that work on Firefox also work on Palemoon. There as some that don't work but I don't use a lot of add-ons so its never been a problem for me. All I need is AdBlock Latitude (the Palemoon-compatible version of AdBlock Plus) and a theme called Qute. So, for me, switching from Firefox to Palemoon was a lot easier than the people who have eleventy gazillion add-ons that they "just can't live without".



  • @bb36e said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    supposed to be

    Key words there. Firefox is also "supposed to be" NOT a steaming festering pile of CEO excrement, but there it is.



  • @jbert said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    What is the vertical axis supposed to be showing? It's currently near -22%, but percentage of what?

    It's explained here.



  • @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    It's explained here.

    Oooo, reading to do on a Friday instead of work.

    TFA says:

    Mozilla’s public data shows that the number of active Firefox Desktop installs running the most recent version of Firefox has been declining for several years... and those users continuing to use previous versions of Firefox, see comments

    Woo hoo, I made a difference!

    Those comments better just be "cf: Lorne Kates"

    Mozilla publishes aggregated Firefox usage data in form of Active Daily Installs (ADIs)

    ................... Clickbait headline: Mild Dyslexia May Result In AIDS.

    looks like the site requires a login now. It used to be available publicly for years and was public until a few days ago). The site is a bit clumsy and you can look at individual days only so I wrote some code to fetch the data for the last 3 years so its easier to analyze

    Gee, thanks, asshole.

    :man: mai sitee is kewl 'n haz data, pentium ii lol i nice guy for maeking avail. but not opptimumum, so slow
    :woman: DOWNLOAD 1000 PAGES AT ONCE
    :man: noooo my pentium ii iz on fire :fire: :fire: no no no i .htaccess

    Firefox tries to contact Mozilla once a day to check for security updates. This is called the “updater ping”

    Oh, you mean the phone-home bullshit I turned off to keep from getting auto updated to Firefox Asscancer Edition? Woo hoo, again I made a difference!

    A subset of users are often stranded on older versions of Firefox.

    Yes. "Stranded". :rolleyes:

    This subset tends to be relatively small since Mozilla is doing a good job these days converting as many users as possible to the most recently/most secure/most performant version of Firefox.

    If you mean forcefully upgrading to the latest indistinguishable-from-adware version, yes, they do a great job of that.

    Mozilla doesn’t publish ADI data for Firefox for iOS and Firefox Focus, but since none of these appear in any browser statistics it means their market share is probably very small.

    So small that I didn't even know a browser called "Firefox Focus" existed.

    Also, how the fuck do you fuck up data collection on a mobile app? The entire reason mobile apps EXISTS it to siphon marketting data off people's phones. You fucking suck at everything, Mozilla.

    There is a big drop in early 2015 which is likely when Mozilla stopped support for very old versions of Android.

    Gee, it's almost like cutting off a huge portion of your install base is a bad idea.

    Google is aggressively using its monopoly position in Internet services such as Google Mail, Google Calendar and YouTube to advertise Chrome.

    Bull fucking shit. Google has ALWAYS done that. I've seen that shit since, like, IE7 was brand new. Surely it can't have ANYTHING to do with Mozilla constantly shitting the bed, fucking up it's UI, destroying it's main competitive feature (extensions), and aggressively alienating it's technical/power-user install base-- who are not only in charge of their own browser choice, but those of all their friends & family, and quite possibly the install base for large businesses.

    No, that couldn't be it at all. it COULDN'T possibly be the fault of shitty decisions by CEOs who only exist to suck every drop of blood from the "non-profit" corporation before parachuting out. NOT. AT. ALL.

    Firefox is today as good as Chrome in most ways, and better in some (memory use for example). However, this simply doesn’t matter in this market.

    You're fucking right it doesn't matter. Because if you present the user with a shitty UI, horrible usage experience, bombard them with ads, and then take away the one feature everyone uses the browser for, it won't matter if it renders those Grumpy Cat pictures 0.005% faster or not.

    Firefox’s decline is not an engineering problem. Its a market disruption (Desktop to Mobile shift) and monopoly problem. There are no engineering solutions to these market problems.

    Fuck off with "market disruption". It's a leadership problem. The leaders spent the past 5-6 years systematically undermining the engineers who COULD have made the browser better back then. And instead, they focused 100% on gee-whiz-flash-bang shit, because a CEO's only job is to show short-term change, and cash out a bonus check.

    Engineers could have told you Asscancer was a bad idea. The market could have told you Asscancer was a bad idea (and, in fact, did, several times, over and over). Same with ad tiles, and killing off extensions, and so forth.

    If Mozilla had slashed their CEOs, and let the engineers do their fucking jobs, then Firefox would have been EXTREMELY technically better years ago. Rock solid. Every IT manager would have loved it. And then the engineers could have focused on doing things like enterprise editions, wide-scale rollout tools, remote management, etc. That would have locked in the tech industry into Firefox. And since everyone would be using Firefox at work, they'd want to use it at home. Mozilla could have EASILY parlayed that into Enterprise/Support contracts to pay the salaries and keep the lights on.

    But instead-- Asscancer, and it all went downhill from there.

    Well, actually, FF23 is when it all went downhill. It's when they changed the logo to be a "flat design", because that's what the gee-whiz fashion trend was at the time. Or actually, it's what the fashion trend was a year before that time, and Firefox is all about making cosmetic changes to desperately try to keep up with an already passed fad.

    Anyways...

    Firefox is simply the victim of Google’s need to increase profit in a relatively stagnant market.

    Fuck off with that "boo hoo poor mean Google victimizing Mozilla" bullshit. You assholes did this to yourself.

    While I no longer work for Mozilla

    Ah, there's the reason for the ass-kissing. Hell, this is so deep into Mozilla's butthole, he's tasting stomach bile at this point.

    There is a lot of important work beyond Firefox that Mozilla can do and is doing for the Web. Mozilla’s Rust programming language has crossed into the mainstream and is growing steadily and Rust might become Mozilla’s second most lasting contribution to the world.

    "Important". :rolling_eyes: I thought RUST was supposed to make Firefox the ebstestseses best browser five years ago. Fuck you.

    Mozilla’s engineering team is also building a futuristic rendering engine Servo which is a fascinating piece of technology.

    "FUTURISTIC!!!" Let me guess, it's an experimental piece of shit that is just a circlewank inside of Mozilla, right?

    f you are interested in the internals of a modern rendering engine, you should definitely take a look. Finding a relevant product to use Servo in will be a challenge, but that doesn’t diminish Servo’s role in pushing the envelope of how fast the Web can be.

    LOL! "OMG, guyz, this thing is amazing-- I mean you can't actually use it for anything useful, but still it's gonna CHANGE THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!"

    And, last but not least, Mozilla is also still actively engaged in Web standards (WebAssembly and WebVR for example), even though it has to rely more on good will than market might these days.

    I've never heard of either of those "standards". And how actively engaged can you be if you aren't involved in it?

    That "even though" is amazing. I'm actively engaged in providing positive, constructive feedback to former Mozilla employee, even though I have to rely mostly on calling you an asshole on a forum you won't read. :thumbsup:

    Oh and bonus "FUCK YOU" to this guy. The link jumped right to the article. But i happened to just scroll up to the top, and he's one of these assholes whose webpage is 100% a single title card of a generic picture, but the picture is only visible through a transparent div, and the picture stays still as you scroll, thus inducing motion sickness and nausea. But it looks purty. Fuck off, asshole.



  • @medinoc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    I presume I don't need "unfuck astral-syphillis" (as blakeyrat once nicknamed it)

    That doesn't sound like something I'd say. Google's utterly useless of course because NodeBB is ass.


  • :belt_onion:

    @lorne-kates said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Google is aggressively using its monopoly position in Internet services such as Google Mail, Google Calendar and YouTube to advertise Chrome.

    Bull fucking shit. Google has ALWAYS done that.

    I almost lol'd when I read that line in the article. OK, so Google is heavily advertising Chrome. So fucking what?

    If someone is using Firefox and decides to give Chrome a try, and likes it, it's not because Google is "abusing their monopoly position". It's because you've turned Firefox into a giant bag of suck®.



  • @el_heffe People used to say that about IE vs. Netscape while ignoring that on Macintosh (a platform whose vendor shipped both browsers on the OS disk) people by and large preferred IE over Netscape.

    While Netscape was turning their browser into a bloated mess with "Communicator", IE5 was lean, fast, and fit-in with the Macintosh look-and-feel far better.


  • Impossible Mission - B



  • @lorne-kates said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    If Mozilla had slashed their CEOs, and let the engineers do their fucking jobs, then Firefox would have been EXTREMELY technically better years ago. Rock solid. Every IT manager would have loved it. And then the engineers could have focused on doing things like enterprise editions, wide-scale rollout tools, remote management, etc. That would have locked in the tech industry into Firefox. And since everyone would be using Firefox at work, they'd want to use it at home. Mozilla could have EASILY parlayed that into Enterprise/Support contracts to pay the salaries and keep the lights on.

    Except a large part of why Firefox stagnated was due to the need to avoid breaking extensions.



  • @magnusmaster said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Except a large part of why Firefox stagnated was due to the need to avoid breaking extensions

    How the junk fuck does "not break extensions" prevent "stop using a fucking gigabyte of ram and also maybe think about using more than one thread fucking hell?"


  • SockDev

    @el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?

    Simple, continue to use Chrome just like i've been doing for years now.



  • @lorne-kates From what I've heard, Firefox extensions touch browser internals so deep that they can't refactor anything without breaking stuff. Multiprocess was delayed years because they couldn't figure out how to make it work with extensions. And apparently it's impossible to port XUL to Servo.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @jaloopa said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    I hate to think what you'd do if your Internet went down or your computer failed.

    Well, a significant portion of my livelihood would be adversely affected, but only if more than 87 percent of my units managed to fail.


  • area_can

    @jaloopa said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Internet went down

    what is this mean??


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @bb36e said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @jaloopa said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Internet went down

    what is this mean??

    Sex. Remember, Internet is about sex, for sex, and enhances sex.


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