How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?



  • @dcon said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    OMFG

    The bookmarks menu is TOTALLY fucked. What goddamn order is that ??? It's not the order when I say "show all".

    DON'T FUCKING SORT MY BOOKMARKS!!!

    Oh, whew.
    0_1510694414033_8166d7e3-2535-4f8f-97d6-ab58bb375679-image.png
    Click "Add Bookmarks Menu to Toolbar". And removed that shit that now looks like it's supposed to be the bookmarks menu.


  • BINNED

    @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    I was able to kinda fix the awful shitty tabs bar in Customize:

    0_1510683964264_5ac63690-3420-4b7e-b89a-ae5eee210621-image.png

    Thanks for this (I would've missed the entire bottom bar at a casual glance) and @JBert.

    After removing the spaces, pocket, putting stuff to compact, selecting a light theme to match every other window, and re-enabling the fucking window title bar (*) it looks almost sane again. They should definitely fire their designers, but I think this is salvageable.
    Any idea how to get rid of the "..." menu in the address bar?

    (*) Gosh, how I hate apps which mess with the window decorations. Old Firefox versions included.



  • I have no idea what all is default and what all is messed-up profile migration from years of Firefox being my second browser, but after a bit of customizing I've gotten it back to as close as I could to what I was using with Classic Theme Restorer. I'd already replaced what Extensions I could with new versions that aren't always as good, so that part of the transition was fine.

    Pocket didn't reappear for me, but I've had it turned off in about:config since they added it. I did have to get rid of the spacers and extra buttons, turn the menu bar back on, and so on.

    Annoyances left include not being able to get rid of the ๐Ÿ” button when I have the menu bar showing and the new tab page removing many of the slots I used to have for pinned sites in favor of junk I turned off. Well, you can't "improve" things without removing things, right? :(


  • ๐Ÿšฝ Regular

    *internal struggles*


  • ๐Ÿšฝ Regular

    @topspin said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    my work computer will not get updated because I definitely need the tab groups extension.

    I'll be waiting for

    which is dependent on

    Simplified Tab Groups is not by the same author, but at least "The tab groups transfer between the two addons without needing to do anything. " and "'will this plugin survive' yes".


  • area_pol

    @zecc
    Tree style tabs managed to adjust to the new API, so maybe tab groups could use the same method?



  • @twelvebaud said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @marczellm WebExtensions can't change the title of their context menu items in response to a context menu open like page script can; it can only act when their items are clicked. Thanks Chrome!

    It seems like a solution is in the works:

    But the extension author is not really active even though many of us commented on the Github issue lately.



  • Installed 57 on some Win7 VM to check the damage. At least one good news: The address bar is no longer fused with the back/forward buttons (but the Stop and Refresh buttons are still irremediably merged). Now to try and get extensions to work:

    • Switched from ABP to uBlock due to the former's disastrous reviews of its latest versions...
    • Found no replacement for QuickJava, but did find a toggle button for Javascript, and another for Flash.
    • No add-on bar and otherwise limited screen real estate, so I had to add some of these icons to the overflow menu.
    • I found a buggy, slower replacement for Tab Groups called Tab Group Switch.

    All in all, I find some replacement of most of the extensions I used, but still it feels a lot like the PHP toolbox.

    And now several pages on the add-on site give me a blank page when I want to access the add-on's reviews.
    Edit: And now the add-on's page itself too!



  • @parody said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Pocket didn't reappear for me, but I've had it turned off in about:config since they added it.

    Oh, that's right. I did that too...



  • @dcon said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @parody said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Pocket didn't reappear for me, but I've had it turned off in about:config since they added it.

    Oh, that's right. I did that too...

    I spoke too soon. Dammit - where did that come from??? It wasn't there yesterday.

    edit: Fixed. disabled in config again.



  • @medinoc It gets worse: At least on the VM, I have no sound at all on Firefox whereas IE can read Youtube and Bandcamp fine (and yes, I've checked the sound mixer). And my buggy, slower replacement for Tab Groups appears to entirely unload all tabs of groups other than the current one, which means even if I had sound I couldn't have a separate "music" tab group like I do now on 56...

    I'll have to test Pale Moon on my other Windows 7 VM when I get home. Also, could you tell me more about this "tree-style tabs" thing?

    Edit: Apparently all things HTML5 give me no sound on FF57 (even with all extensions disabled) while Flash does work, once installed on the VM.



  • WTF? Yesterday on my work computer, I had explicitly set Firefox to tell me about updates but NOT install them.
    Guess what happened after I WU'd and rebooted my computer today?

    ...At least here I do have sound.
    sigh Time to give Tree Style Tab a try, I suppose, because that inferior Tab Groups replacement just isn't cutting it.

    Edit: Yeaaaaaah if I'm going to have a TreeView open the whole time in my browser, I wonder if I wouldn't be better off just making all my tabs into a bunch of bookmark folders (for which the extension can help me, at least), especially as Tree Style Tabs appears to do something that resembles, yet is not quite, eagerly loading all my tabs on startup (it asks for my credentials due to one of my tabs using Windows Authentication).



  • @medinoc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    (it asks for my credentials due to one of my tabs using Windows Authentication)

    about:config
    network.negotiate-auth.trusted-uris
    fix'd



  • @twelvebaud What I wonder is more, why does it do so immediately on startup (which is, long before I ever click on that tab) despite not doing the "load immediately" thing for other tabs?

    And is it in any way linked to the extension, or is it merely Quantum bogobehavior?

    Edit: Finally found some time to test Pale Moon. Much to my dismay, the Tab Groups add-on for it is... ancient, and lacks a lot of features present in the one for Firefox 56... Starting with the ability to switch groups without bringing up the lists of thumbnails.



  • @topspin said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    (*) Gosh, how I hate apps which mess with the window decorations. Old Firefox versions included.

    Then you'll be happy to learn that in this instance they decided to reimplement the entire title bar instead.



  • What. The. Fuck.

    Firefox 57 with Tree-style tabs: I just moved a tab to a new window, and either Firefox or Tree-style tabs decided that it meant I wanted to reload all my hundred-or-so tabs simultaneously, unleashing TOTAL YOUTUBE CACOPHONY with my twenty-or-so Youtube tabs (because of course the "wait until tab is focused" feature of YT appears to no longer work, or something).

    I think "pale moon with old tab groups" will be a lesser pain in the ass than this.

    Edit: Oh, and I just found "tab groups helper" which adds the feature I was missing. I guess I'll take advantage of my week-end to install Pale Moon on my real home computer.


  • โ™ฟ (Parody)

    @marczellm said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Then you'll be happy to learn that in this instance they decided to reimplement the entire title bar instead.

    Must be just a Windows thing.

    0_1510929454872_57cae61d-8b1a-4b3e-820b-55e98cf911c9-image.png



  • @boomzilla (customize screen)
    0_1510929665061_ded52a79-5c44-4fca-ad88-2f3deee85df8-image.png

    And Windows can have a normal title bar too!


  • โ™ฟ (Parody)

    @dcon Yeah, I did look at the customize stuff. But I don't see that option.



  • @boomzilla said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @dcon Yeah, I did look at the customize stuff. But I don't see that option.

    Guess they didn't figure out (yet) how to mess with (your platform)'s caption bar. v57.0.1?

    Note to FF: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


  • BINNED

    @boomzilla said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @marczellm said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Then you'll be happy to learn that in this instance they decided to reimplement the entire title bar instead.

    Must be just a Windows thing.

    0_1510929454872_57cae61d-8b1a-4b3e-820b-55e98cf911c9-image.png

    Windows and Mac, to different extents.

    I use this exact same window theme on Linux :belt_onion: , but haven't updated Firefox there yet, so I can't tell. It's also set up to always show the decorations, even when stupid gnome 3 apps try to use their own oversized and fucked up close buttons. Redundant and looks a bit weird, but that's basically gnome's fault and still better than the alternative. ๐ŸšŽ



  • @dcon On Linux platforms, the caption bar is drawn by a separate "window decorator" program that operates completely independently of the program it's decorating. You can request not to be decorated, but I don't believe there's a way to request access to draw into the decoration area (it's the window decorator's window, after all) nor "suck the brains out" of the decorator (though Ambiance and Radiance are popular enough that, if Firefox detects you're using them and haven't customized things, it'll just render them itself).

    On Windows and OSX, you can scribble all over the non-client area all you want; starting with Windows XP, you can even ask the OS to render individual UI parts for you at a time and place of your choosing.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @twelvebaud said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    but I don't believe there's a way to request access to draw into the decoration area

    It's not technically difficult (it's just a matter of getting the xid of the window, and there's an API call to do exactly that), but the decorations themselves could be pretty arbitrarily arranged both logically and physically so you're going to have trouble figuring out what to do next. For example, I used to use a window manager which put all title bars on the sides of windows (with the text rotated) on the grounds that it was a direction in which there was usually more spare screen space.



  • @marczellm said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @twelvebaud said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @marczellm WebExtensions can't change the title of their context menu items in response to a context menu open like page script can; it can only act when their items are clicked. Thanks Chrome!

    It seems like a solution is in the works:

    But the extension author is not really active even though many of us commented on the Github issue lately.

    Do y'all think that the only way to get this extension working in Quantum, given

    • the bug is on priority P5
    • the extension developer not responding on Github

    would be spending the summer

    • learning how to develop Firefox
    • implementing the onBeforeShow event in Firefox
    • learning how to develop WebExtensions
    • porting the extension

    ?


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    Well, if worse comes to worse the forum still kinda works with Javascript off.
    Kinda.

    0_1511418519390_62ab2df4-fe7b-4b28-8d74-39363e60570e-image.png


    Filed under: Actually, I was unable to actually post that message using that browser. Not totally unexpected though.



  • @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?!

    0_1510671679917_3088f593-1dc7-4975-9115-c1c9a5f74ca0-image.png

    I updated the two computers I use most to Firefox 57 about a week ago. On the Windows computer, this was a thing I had to deal with - except that if you have any pinned tabs, the space at the right and the tiny sliver at the top is not there, and if you have one more tab than @anotherusername had, there is literally no titlebar available that is not a tab to use in order to move the window, and the last tab + new tab button override the minimize/maximize/close buttons. However, I found how to re-enable the proper titlebar to get around the problem.



  • @dcon said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @dcon said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    OMFG

    The bookmarks menu is TOTALLY fucked. What goddamn order is that ??? It's not the order when I say "show all".

    DON'T FUCKING SORT MY BOOKMARKS!!!

    Oh, whew.
    0_1510694414033_8166d7e3-2535-4f8f-97d6-ab58bb375679-image.png
    Click "Add Bookmarks Menu to Toolbar". And removed that shit that now looks like it's supposed to be the bookmarks menu.

    DItto for me, on both computers. Also re-disabled Pocket which magically rose from the dead previously disabled status.



  • @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Also, GreaseMonkey is all kinds of fucked up now. BRB learning async / await...

    Actually, it seemed to work pretty well for me, though it was different having the editor be a regular tab rather than a popup window. The one big thing is that if you added an existing script to more pages using the controls on the add-ins page (that are completely gone now), those settings are lost. Only the pages written into the initial comments of the script survived.

    Among my other extensions, one that let me download embedded videos was already available in its new version, and a couple other ones I had were lost but I wasn't using them any more so I didn't worry too much about them.



  • @devjoe I was mainly annoyed at (apparently) the dark theme that it selected by default, which you might notice totally clashes with the rest of the window trim. I eventually went into Customize and discovered that the light theme looks much better, but why'd it default to dark? ๐Ÿค”

    Oh, and funny story, on my wife's laptop (which is Windows 8 IIRC) it defaulted to the light theme.



  • @devjoe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    literally no titlebar available that is not a tab to use in order to move the window ... I found how to re-enable the proper titlebar to get around the problem

    I enabled "Drag Space" -- that solved it for me.



  • @devjoe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Also, GreaseMonkey is all kinds of fucked up now. BRB learning async / await...

    Actually, it seemed to work pretty well for me, though it was different having the editor be a regular tab rather than a popup window. The one big thing is that if you added an existing script to more pages using the controls on the add-ins page (that are completely gone now), those settings are lost. Only the pages written into the initial comments of the script survived.

    Among my other extensions, one that let me download embedded videos was already available in its new version, and a couple other ones I had were lost but I wasn't using them any more so I didn't worry too much about them.

    I'm more of a power-user with a rather unique use case.

    If you only ever used scripts that you installed from third-party sources, you probably wouldn't notice as much. Virtually all of my userscripts are things that I wrote myself, and most of them I'd like to keep synchronized between two different computers as simply as possible -- and by simply, I mean preferably I should just be able to edit the file, save it, and then have it be the same on both computers, without having to worry about changing a version number.

    If there's any free userscript host that has a dirt-simple interface to create/edit userscripts and automatically does whatever versioning magic is necessary to get Firefox to download the updated script, then I'd be interested in knowing it. Otherwise, editing the local .user.js file in Notepad++ was working nicely -- I had replaced each userscript folder in gm_scripts with a junction point to a real folder inside my Dropbox sync'd folder, and that contained the .user.js file, so Dropbox automatically kept them in sync between the two computers. (My original plan was to put junction points in the Dropbox sync folder. I had to switch it around because Dropbox doesn't like junction points -- it's realtime monitoring doesn't work for them, so it'd update them only once as it first started up.)

    I do see a bunch of .db files inside gm_scripts now, but I'm not so sure it'd be safe to have Dropbox trying to modify those on the fly...



  • This post is deleted!


  • @anotherusername Greasemonkey has Firefox Sync for user scripts.



  • @anotherusername FWIW, with Tampermonkey I use the @version, @downloadURL, and @updateURL comment lines to get my computers to update to the newest ones. I put them on my own website, but direct URLs from the file sharing and/or version control services should work.



  • @marczellm said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @anotherusername Greasemonkey has Firefox Sync for user scripts.

    How does that work? The Sync documentation said that it limits the amount of sync storage to 100k... my TDWTF script alone is larger than that...

    @parody said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @anotherusername FWIW, with Tampermonkey I use the @version, @downloadURL, and @updateURL comment lines to get my computers to update to the newest ones. I put them on my own website, but direct URLs from the file sharing and/or version control services should work.

    I really don't want to have to increment some minor version number every time I tweak the script while testing. With a locally stored script it's really easy... even using a third-party editor when it had separate .user.js files, Greasemonkey immediately picked up the edits as soon as the file was modified.


  • area_can

    @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    100k... my TDWTF script alone is larger than that...

    :wtf: do you have in there??



  • @anotherusername I do all my changes locally (often in the in-browser editor) then post it on my website and let my other machines catch up. I keep all of my scripts, user CSS, and whatnot in (local) source control for actual safekeeping.

    I don't do a ton of user scripting or CSS, so a bit of manual upkeep is fine with me.



  • @bb36e said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @anotherusername said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    100k... my TDWTF script alone is larger than that...

    :wtf: do you have in there??

    This, more or less...

    0_1511889061400_TDWTF.user.js.txt

    (It's too large to post it in a code block, I guess.)

    ...oh... huh. Well, that's interesting. Yeah it tries to install it when it has the .user.js extension and I don't see any way to tell it to show the code, so I'll add .txt...

    (apparently it's not quite as big as I thought I remembered it being... it's around 90k? I guess I was just thinking that if one script was that large, it couldn't possibly hope to stay under the 100k limit. Then again, with decent compression... maybe? I dunno. I also have a couple of userscripts that are quite large on account of containing base64-encoded sprites, so they wouldn't be very good candidates for compression.)


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @anotherusername Methinks you could easily split that into modules. Would be nicer for version management too...


  • BINNED

    I've been seeing this weird bug - it happens entirely randomly as far as I can tell. Basically once in a few weeks the whole interface "refreshes" itself. Not actual pages, whatever was loaded before is loaded afterwards, but the whole interface goes dark for about a second, I think it even shows a "loading" graphic - both the main window and my Tree Style Tabs sidebar do that - and then it's all fine again, except if I was watching a video it goes back to the beginning. Have any of you seen that?

    It kinda seems like it has something to do with FF running out of memory, except I'm using the 64-bit version (I'm not sure if there even is a 32-bit version of FF>57), and this system has 32 gigs of RAM and is currently using about 5. ๐Ÿคทโ™‚



  • @blek Is it always when there are HTML5 video elements? I experience roughly the same thing in Chrome except that the video pauses and shows as completely solid green, and won't play until a refresh. It might be that Firefox is crashing the renderer or the graphics driver.


  • BINNED

    @lb_ Oh god dammit, I think I know what causes it and why I couldn't reproduce it before. This only happens when I update my system but don't reboot immediately - it's probably those nVidia drivers, I'm getting them as akmods, so the updated drivers are downloaded when I update but they're only built at next reboot - but at the same time something happens that makes the currently installed drivers basically unusable. I remember Steam complaining about this before (if I launch it after an update that installs newer drivers but without rebooting), I just never connected it to what Firefox was doing.



  • @blek Firefox did the Chrome multiprocess thing, and one of your tabs crashed, taking the sidebar (and possibly a few other tabs) with it. It then Session Restored you right back where you were, but Session Restore doesn't know how to deal with videos.



  • I updated to FF57 when FF54 starting giving me a scary-warning banner saying it couldn't update automatically and I was now way out of date and dangerous and waaaah. That was the first indication I'd had that automatic updating had stopped working, of course.

    Yeah, it's ugly and the new tab page is annoying, but I don't care that much. I mostly use it for playing a couple of browser games and email, so I'm normally just working with the content on those tabs, not opening new ones. The two things that particularly annoy me about the upgrade are (i) muted tabs now unmute themselves on restart, and (ii) auto-updating is still broken โ€“ and naturally it gives me no indication why, just nags me to manually update to the latest version.



  • I'm on FF56 with updates disabled, haven't been nagged so far.
    Any security issues are on Mozilla. Plus, obsolete products are generally used little enough that exploiting them isn't very lucrative, resulting in fewer exploits - makes me think the whole worry about using obsolete products is more manufactured than real.

    Once websites stop working because the web moves ever drunkenly forward, I'll look into switching into waterfox or whatever the alternative of the day is. The browser I'll switch to will behave like or better than my current one, though - so help me god!


  • :belt_onion:

    @lorne-kates said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    @lb_

    "Not for profit"

    ๐Ÿ–• you lying sacks of CEO shit.

    Salary != profit.
    Best way to make sure you don't make a profit, is by paying it out.



  • Another "great idea" from the Mozilla folks: today they decided to install an Extension named "Looking Glass" with a description of "MY REALITY IS JUST DIFFERENT THAN YOURS" on a bunch of people's Firefox installs. The extension flips certain words upside-down, inserts words into websites, and sends an extra HTTP header to three specific sites, among other things.

    It's apparently part of a Mr. Robot ARG. They've already expanded the extension's description to have actual information after users started asking support questions, filing bugs, and speculating about malware.

    I'm not sure they wanted a good way to teach people how to turn off telemetry and opt-in random user studies, but they certainly found one.


  • :belt_onion:

    @parody said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:

    Another "great idea" from the Mozilla folks: today they decided to install an Extension named "Looking Glass" with a description of "MY REALITY IS JUST DIFFERENT THAN YOURS" on a bunch of people's Firefox installs. The extension flips certain words upside-down, inserts words into websites, and sends an extra HTTP header to three specific sites, among other things.

    It's apparently part of a Mr. Robot ARG. They've already expanded the extension's description to have actual information after users started asking support questions, filing bugs, and speculating about malware.

    I'm not sure they wanted a good way to teach people how to turn off telemetry and opt-in random user studies, but they certainly found one.

    ... they just pushed the extension out to (a subset of) users? Who didn't elect to participate? (They elected to install and run "Studies", but this is self-evidently not a study.)

    What the... FUCK?! Does Firefox want to lose every single user they have left for their blatant disregard of users' browsing experience and security?

    It's like a fucking April Fool's joke gone very wrong. I feel so bad for those users.


  • area_can

    @parody yeah, mozilla pushing some promotional material for a TV show into browsers further damages my image of them. This sucks. There aren't any browsers being maintained that aren't owned by sketchy companies.

    We should write our own browser

    WTDWTFox: supports html 0.9, CSS3, ECMAScript 3, and only http.


  • BINNED


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