In Defense of Electron


  • area_can

    All right, let's see what he has to say...

    0_1503355439757_8ae671f8-ec0c-44a0-bdfa-0898484c3eac-image.png

    I'm out.


  • area_can

    By no means am I 'most people'. I use a relatively advanced laptop: a 2016 MacBook with 16GB ram (which came standard). But advanced development machines of today are the entry level computers of tomorrow. Electron’s dream world would be one where every computer user had a luxurious amount of ram. But I think this world is fast approaching. Do we wait till then to begin taking advantage of a plentiful world, or do we start planning now?

    Sure, but don't make an app for your fancy machine and tell me it's my fault it runs like shit on my computer.

    This would mean hiring a total of six experienced developers. Let’s ignore the madenning tediousness of having to make every minor change six times on six different platforms, and focus instead on the costs. With an average salary of $150k

    Oh gotcha, Electron is only meant for people living in SF.

    Perhaps the devil’s deal is not so bad then? You get something, instead of nothing. That’s always good.

    But I agree, something is usually better than nothing. however, if that something is a pile of piping hot garbage, I'd rather have nothing. this is why i have uninstalled snapchat


  • SockDev

    I don’t notice it. My laptop doesn’t get hot. I don’t hear the fan. I experience no lags in any application. My music plays seamlessly. I can watch an HD YouTube video without problem. My screen doesn’t flicker. I get notifications. I download new apps and update old ones.

    I go about my day, and Electron doesn’t get in the way.

    This actually matches my experience with using Electron-based apps, and I run both Slack and Discord all the time.

    But that's the only bit of the article I agree with.

    Electron’s dream world would be one where every computer user had a luxurious amount of ram.

    First, it's 'RAM', not 'ram': it's an acronym, not a sheep. And second, that's a pathetic excuse for not giving a shit about resource usage.

    If I were a convenience framework developer, I ought to be more concerned with where the trend in memory is going rather than where it has been.

    No, you concern yourself with the machines that made over the last five years. Plenty of people use older machines: don't fuck them over for the users of tomorrow.

    Opponents of Electron say that “it’s too memory intensive.” Or, “It hogs the CPU.” Or even better yet, “It runs the entirety of the Google Chrome engine in every window.”

    And they have a point.

    As a one-person team deploying on all these platforms, even the most minor change will take at minimum three development days, one for each codebase. This includes debugging, fixing, testing, bundling, deploying, and distributing every single codebase. This is by no means an easy task.

    Boo fucking hoo.

    If I were speaking candidly, perhaps I’d say “I regret to inform you that the world you imagine could not exist.”

    Only Electron can be used to make cross-platform apps. It's physically impossible for anything else to exist. Obviously.

    Moron.

    Let us entertain this user’s wishes by simulating the parallel universe where a small software shop can develop natively on every single platform.

    This would mean hiring a total of six experienced developers. Let’s ignore the madenning tediousness of having to make every minor change six times on six different platforms, and focus instead on the costs. With an average salary of $150k (probably more for the hard to find like Mac developers), and ignoring the massive cost of finding and hiring these developers, that’s a total of $900,000 in development costs every year.

    Leaving out the fact he can't use a fucking spellchecker, why do six platforms mean six developers? And why are you so wedded to the idea of getting highly-paid seniors from Silicon Valley only?

    I'd continue, but the comments section tears him a new one quite nicely.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @raceprouk said in In Defense of Electron:

    No, you concern yourself with the machines that made over the last five years. Plenty of people use older machines: don't fuck them over for the users of tomorrow.

    There are plenty of machines sold even today with 8 gigs of RAM - in fact I'd say most only get that. Many still have 4 - that's finally becoming more rare, but it still happens, and it was the de facto standard for years. Hell, when I started at my current job (getting close to 5 years ago), the standard issue laptop had 4 GB, with 384 MB reserved by the integrated GPU. We keep the machines we're issued for 3 years, so I only got rid of that POS (that IIRC cost close to 2000 US dollars, by the way) less than two years ago.



  • Yes, yes, HTML sucks and uses lots of RAM, boo hoo.

    But what other platform is anywhere near as portable as it, with the same level of effort?

    Don't blame HTML developers for using the best tool they can find. Blame everyone else for not having made better tools.


  • SockDev

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    Blame everyone else for not having made better tools.

    Like the guy who wrote that article, who thinks it's fine to waste resources because

    Electron’s dream world would be one where every computer user had a luxurious amount of ram.

    and

    advanced development machines of today are the entry level computers of tomorrow.



  • If every app was written in electron or some other HTML+CSS+JS framework, I can't imagine the sheer waste that would happen. Electricity, money, the environment, all being wasted because devs are too lazy to write efficient native code for multiple platforms. Saving money for development/production resulting in wasting money for the masses is a problem in many industries, though...

    Just because computers are getting more powerful doesn't mean simple applications need to start using more of that power.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    But what other platform is anywhere near as portable as it, with the same level of effort?

    C?


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    Yes, yes, HTML sucks and uses lots of RAM, boo hoo.
    But what other platform is anywhere near as portable as it, with the same level of effort?

    Xamarin



    1. You're developing on a web browser, one of the most attacked platforms on earth. One where you've replaced the sandbox that it has to prevent code from interacting with the local system with one designed to let it do exactly that. One that you're most likely not keeping up to date. Are you insane!?
    1. (Addendum.) If someone can hit F12 or CtrlShiftI and up pops the Developer Tools, then they've discovered your easy-to-use, fully functional extensibility model, so they can customize your app to act exactly how they like it! lost, since they're probably pasting a rob-me-blind script.
    2. One of the major security features of a browser is that it's running under restricted privileges. IE is locked to the Low Mandatory Integrity Level, it can neither interact with other windows nor write anywhere except %APPDATA%\LocalLow. Edge is a Windows Store app and thus won't run at all as over-the-shoulder administrator, since it needs a restricted security token to enforce the Windows Store security model. Chrome... well Chrome doesn't really care, but it has this sandbox thingy at least. Except everyone who embeds Chrome disables the sandbox and expects it to run elevated all the time. For raisins.
    3. So you've built a stand-alone web app. So... why couldn't you have built it as an actual web app? Apps and extensions are standardized; it's not that hard. And what did you actually accomplish? Something that can run on six three platforms at once, but equally shitty in all three? Something that .NET had back in two thousand FREAKIN' four, and it had it on phones too? Oh, you get your own icon, shortcut, and AppUserModel ID, I guess, but is it really worth it for all the baggage you bring along?

  • area_can

    @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    why couldn't you have built it as an actual web app

    Offline capability comes to mind


  • area_can

    Also, doesn't Spotify use CEF and not electron? Or perhaps I'm mis-remembering


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @lb_ This is only tangentially related to the topic but you reminded me of something - I think I might have mentioned it around here before but it bears repeating. I think the company I work for will cause the end of humanity.

    I'm a technical writer - I write manuals, which are available online at our website. Most of them are published in multiple formats at once: ePub, PDF, multi-page HTML (one page is one section), or single page HTML where the entire manual is on one page. This is very useful for searching - if you want to look up what some command or config file does, you open the single page document, hit Ctrl+F, and find exactly what you're looking for if you're a bit smart about it.

    Some of these manuals are huge - the biggest one I've seen was close to 800 A4 pages in PDF, and 400-500 pages is not uncommon. That used to be just fine years ago, but then some genius decided to redesign our customer portal. During that process, they came up with a ridiculously ugly style sheet (the text is gray, headings gray, admonitions have a gray background... the website seriously is like 50 shades of gray), but that's not the main problem.

    The main problem is that they decided to use some sort of javascript library that relies heavily on regular expressions to do syntax highlighting client-side in the HTML versions. Before, syntax highlighting was done during the build. When we published a guide, the build job that generated the HTML and PDF and ePub did this, once, and then when anyone opened a document in their browser, the browser just rendered any code samples as plain HTML plus some CSS. It was lightning fast. But now, instead of doing this once, it's done "dynamically" on your system every time you open any document, because "that's how modern websites work" or some shit like that. I've never heard a satisfactory explanation. When you open some of our developer documentation that contains a lot of code samples, it brings lesser machines and browsers to their figurative knees. Single-threaded browsers like Firefox without Electrolysis literally hang for minutes at a time, even on fairly powerful hardware (like my desktop with an overclocked i5-6600K and 32 gigs of RAM) - while the fans scream like banshees.

    This isn't some kind of small company, it's an international corporation that's basically a nerd household name. We get millions of hits on our docs per month. This one fucking javascript library alone is probably responsible for billions of tons of pollution to be released into our atmosphere over the few years it's been used, for no good reason. Customers complain that they have to use PDFs because they literally can't work with the HTML versions. The website people have been aware of the problem for years. I even made them fix it a little bit so the problem isn't as severe as before - but that just means Firefox now hangs for a minute instead of five minutes. All of this could be very easily avoided by ditching the JS library and doing highlighting at build time, but no, that's not fucking web 4.0 enough. Fucking hell.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blek said in In Defense of Electron:

    the website seriously is like 50 shades of gray

    The NSFW Thread is :arrows:



  • @bb36e said in In Defense of Electron:

    Offline capability comes to mind

    Gotcha covered.


  • SockDev

    @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    1. (Addendum.) If someone can hit F12 or CtrlShiftI and up pops the Developer Tools, then they've discovered your easy-to-use, fully functional extensibility model, so they can customize your app to act exactly how they like it! lost, since they're probably pasting a rob-me-blind script.

    This is possible in both Slack and Discord, IIRC. Definitely can be done in Discord.

    @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    So you've built a stand-alone web app. So... why couldn't you have built it as an actual web app?

    That's exactly what both Slack and Discord did: they made a web app, then made an Electron client to show it.

    @blek said in In Defense of Electron:

    But now, instead of doing this once, it's done "dynamically" on your system every time you open any document, because "that's how modern websites work" or some shit like that. I've never heard a satisfactory explanation.

    It's because someone found a cool JS library they want to use everywhere.


  • area_can

    @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    covered.

    I'm a luddite so I don't know much about the modern web but if, say, I made my markdown text editor web app available at bb36e.com (web developers are required by law to produce at least one markdown editor every six months), how would I distribute it? Like would people still be able to go to bb36e.com if they lost their connection and the browser would display an offline version?


  • SockDev

    @bb36e said in In Defense of Electron:

    web developers are required by law to produce at least one markdown editor every six months

    You mean I need to make 22 Markdown editors, otherwise I go to gaol?

    flees


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @raceprouk said in In Defense of Electron:

    @bb36e said in In Defense of Electron:

    web developers are required by law to produce at least one markdown editor every six months

    You mean I need to make 22 Markdown editors, otherwise I go to gaol?

    flees

    What? I hear Gaul is nice. Well, except for all the Gauls. :trolleybus:



  • @raceprouk said in In Defense of Electron:

    That's exactly what both Slack and Discord did: they made a web app, then made an Electron client to show it.

    Yes, but what value did that actually add? They've already got notifications both when their tabs are open and (with service workers) when their tabs are closed. You can already pin websites as tiles on mobile and desktop devices providing you're using the Blessed Browser of the OS, and copies launched that way don't stack with regular instances of that browser. If they had something that the surface exposed to regular pages didn't cover, they could upload what they've got to Google Play, AMO, and Windows Store as a Web Extension just as easily; it'd reach people using all three browsers and remove their headache of repackaging, redeploying, re-updating, and keeping up with the Chromeses. What more do they need?


  • SockDev

    @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    Yes, but what value did that actually add?

    That is the $1m question.



  • @bb36e With "Gotcha", it would display the last version they saw*. With "covered", it would display whatever the hell you wanted it to display; your JavaScript has full control over how requests are handled.

    * Actually the version they would have seen the last time had they never visited the site before; they saw the version before that one instead. There's a reason the "covered" article starts with a link explaining why the "Gotcha" option is dangerous. Fortunately it was just a stopgap.


  • area_can

    @twelvebaud TIL how service workers work! nifty. I found google's docs to be better at explaining it than MDN.



  • @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    Except everyone who embeds Chrome disables the sandbox and expects it to run elevated all the time. For raisins.

    Electron authors kind of shot themselves in the foot needlessly.

    They actually already made a sane web-on-desktop setup with electron. You have two different process types in each app - "renderers", which are browser windows that you interact with, and one "main" process, which is kind of the standardish node.js app that runs without UI (and initialized the renderers). And there's a pretty solid RPC implementation tying them together.

    It'd be pretty easy to sandbox back the renderers and have them do any OS-level stuff by sending messages to the "backend". So if hackers XSS your renderer, they don't have the entire OS in their palm, but are instead limited to what they can trick your "backend" to do via messages. Not as safe as standard frontend + backend on the web (no security layer), but still a lot safer than what we have now.

    My guess is, GitHub was tailoring electron for the needs of their text editor, Atom. Text editors are not doing much web interaction with 3rd party sources. So unsandboxing the renderer was a worthwhile simplification for their use case.

    IMO if you are making an electron app that's fetching data from unsafe sources (with user-submitted content), you should sandbox your renderers and make the app work using the traditional client-server paradigm.


  • BINNED

    @masonwheeler said in In Defense of Electron:

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    Yes, yes, HTML sucks and uses lots of RAM, boo hoo.
    But what other platform is anywhere near as portable as it, with the same level of effort?

    Xamarin

    Also, Qt.

    Yes, I know, C++, booo!

    Also, yes, I've seen all the shit people do with it by reinventing the UI in it because it's flexible enough to let you do that. Those people are the scourge of humanity and will be garroted as soon as humanly possible.

    EDIT:

    Found this gem in the comments:

    Sure QT can create cross platform UIs, but with a $300 yearly price tag for one developer and no support.

    The fuck are you on, dude? No, buddy, you pay for support, it's free otherwise. And the ONLY thing you need to pay for other than support is of you're modifying the Qt core AND want to keep those modifications closed source. It shouldn't take you more than 5 fucking minutes to read this on the site.



  • I agree with most of the points the article is making.

    Electron is making the same bet that software like Excel made in the early 90-ies. Make a resource heavy sluggish app and hope the tech will catch up with you. The motivation is different (cost of development VS features), but strategy is the same.

    I am not sure tech is advancing fast enough these days for that to work, though. Maybe 16GB RAM as standard will be enough for these chrome-based apps to become viable for everyone. But will people update their PC-s, or just move on to mobiles? Not sure.

    The other point, about cross-platform dev, also stands. Web platform is sluggish and fiddly and full of inconsistencies, but it has accumulated so many features over the years, it's hard for any new desktop-only platform to compete. If you don't have to worry about cross browser crap (chrome-only) and the size of your js package (no network overhead), it's actually pretty sweet to develop.

    If you are making presentation-heavy app (as opposed to interaction-heavy), electron is a clear winner over anything native IMO. For interaction heavy, it depends.



  • @bb36e said in In Defense of Electron:

    how would I distribute it? Like would people still be able to go to bb36e.com if they lost their connection and the browser would display an offline version?

    Yes, indeed.

    The user is expected to launch a web browser while offline, attempt to navigate to your website (without using google or anything, of course), and then like magic, it would still work.

    And of course, your website will show zero indications of that capability (unless you manually write a message explaining it), and there is no interface on any browsers to see the "cached websites".

    It seriously pisses me off how bad this UX is. It literally makes the entire feature virtually useless, and it's pretty much the most important feature that HTML5 has.



  • @dreikin said in In Defense of Electron:

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    But what other platform is anywhere near as portable as it, with the same level of effort?

    C?

    C is not a platform, and it's not usable for modern desktop apps.

    @lb_ said in In Defense of Electron:

    If every app was written in Java or some other HTML+CSS+JS framework, I can't imagine the sheer waste that would happen. Electricity, money, the environment, all being wasted because devs are too lazy to write efficient native code for multiple platforms. Saving money for development/production resulting in wasting money for the masses is a problem in many industries, though...

    Just because computers are getting more powerful doesn't mean simple applications need to start using more of that power.

    Okay, what the fuck?

    First, this is precisely what has been happening during the entire history of software development. Computers get more powerful, programmers can afford to add an extra layer of abstraction that makes coding slightly easier at the expense of processing cycles. Repeat.
    I'm not saying Electron is a good platform here, I'm saying this argument by itself is pointless.

    Second, "because devs are too lazy to write efficient native code for multiple platforms". "Lazy", seriously? Not wanting to do many extra hours of work is not laziness, it's what's expected. In fact some would argue it's the foundation of capitalism and technological progress.

    Saving money for development/production resulting in wasting money for the masses is a problem in many industries, though...

    Actually, that's precisely where the beauty of capitalism lies.

    See, all methods of doing things have some advantages and disadvantages compared to other methods. Plastic things are generally worse than metal but much cheaper. Airless tires have much easier maintenance than inflatable tires, but their performance is worse. Electron software is cheaper than "native" software but requires more processing power.

    Since determining which methods are better is a very complicated thing that depends on the particular needs of everyone, we just let people choose individually. The ones that more people pick will have more demand, and thus their prices will go up, and more people will produce it, etc.

    My point is, if people are choosing semingly "crappier" products, it's generally because they have some other advantage, generally being cheaper. And making a product 10% cheaper is a very big deal when it's a product that people spend billions of dollars on.


  • SockDev

    My only experience with Electron is with Atom. I tried it on my first day at this new job since I didn't want to get dirty with Vim.

    I'm playing with Moodle, this means it has files that are 100KB+ at a time, and I want to search etc.. Atom was so painful at this it wasn't funny. Christ, gedit got this right. As did Sublime, even Notepad++ via WINE was faster.

    And if you're arguing this is the future, count me out.



  • @blek said in In Defense of Electron:

    When you open some of our developer documentation that contains a lot of code samples, it brings lesser machines and browsers to their figurative knees. Single-threaded browsers like Firefox without Electrolysis literally hang for minutes at a time, even on fairly powerful hardware (like my desktop with an overclocked i5-6600K and 32 gigs of RAM) - while the fans scream like banshees.

    I discovered something similar with the Vulkan Docs. I quickly timed it, it hangs Firefox for about 35 seconds.

    To compare, the small Vulkan example that I'm toying around with takes about 5s to build (including third party stuff), <5s to load (including a model of about 250k triangles and maybe 100MB of textures), and start displaying said model. In the spare time I could probably take a screenshot, send it to the printer and have a printed copy back on my wooden desk.



  • @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    See, all methods of doing things have some advantages and disadvantages compared to other methods. Plastic things are generally worse than metal but much cheaper.

    Usually this is a compromise the user makes. Saving money by buying worse products.

    Buying extra RAM or turning your PC into a space heater so devs can save some time isn't the same.

    It's slightly arguable that 'buy more RAM or you won't get your app this year' is for consumers but it's still slimy.



  • @coldandtired said in In Defense of Electron:

    Buying extra RAM or turning your PC into a space heater so devs can save some time isn't the same.

    It is. Or at least it would be if we had a functional software market.

    The choice would be: buy extra RAM so you can have the "lazy" text editor for $10, or don't buy extra RAM and get the not-lazy text editor for $25.

    The thing about markets is that if most consumers agree on option A, people who prefer option B get screwed over because they lose most of their products.



  • @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    Computers get more powerful, programmers can afford to add an extra layer of abstraction that makes coding slightly easier at the expense of processing cycles.

    At some point I don't think certain applications need any more abstractions and at that point you're just using more processing cycles for the sake of it. What was wrong with the original Windows calculator that they decided to make the new version take forever to start up?

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    Not wanting to do many extra hours of work is not laziness, it's what's expected. In fact some would argue it's the foundation of capitalism and technological progress.

    Maybe we have different definitions or uses of lazy, because you haven't disagreed with me here.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    In defense of Electron, it's really fun to work with.

    That's about it. It's crappy for the end user, that's why they complain and refuse to use your apps.


  • area_can

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    The user is expected to launch a web browser while offline, attempt to navigate to your website (without using google or anything, of course), and then like magic, it would still work.

    I feel like this workflow was created with mobile users in mind -- you can pin a site/web app to your home screen and then launch it from there. But I agree, it just feels weird to use the browser as an application launcher on desktop.

    Maybe this will change as time goes on and Mozilla will reduce the address bar to a 3x3 grid of icons



  • @bb36e

    But advanced development machines of today are the entry level computers of tomorrow. Electron’s dream world would be one where every computer user had a luxurious amount of ram. But I think this world is fast approaching.

    Electron: the platform for the next ten years!



  • With an average salary of $150k (probably more for the hard to find like Mac developers), and ignoring the massive cost of finding and hiring these developers, that’s a total of $900,000 in development costs every year.

    JFC...or maybe don't be in silly valley.



  • Electron’s dream world would be one where every computer user had a luxurious amount of ram. But I think this world is fast approaching.

    Every computer user today has a luxurious amount of RAM by the standards of even just a couple of years ago, never mind decades. I don’t see why this situation would change in the foreseeable future.



  • @onyx said in In Defense of Electron:

    Found this gem in the comments:

    Sure QT can create cross platform UIs, but with a $300 yearly price tag for one developer and no support.

    The fuck are you on, dude? No, buddy, you pay for support, it's free otherwise. And the ONLY thing you need to pay for other than support is of you're modifying the Qt core AND want to keep those modifications closed source. It shouldn't take you more than 5 fucking minutes to read this on the site.

    And supposedly you're already paying the dev $150K+. It's gotta be a tiny fraction of the free expresso budget.



  • @coldandtired said in In Defense of Electron:

    @anonymous234 said in In Defense of Electron:

    See, all methods of doing things have some advantages and disadvantages compared to other methods. Plastic things are generally worse than metal but much cheaper.

    Usually this is a compromise the user makes. Saving money by buying worse products.

    Buying extra RAM or turning your PC into a space heater so devs can save some time isn't the same.

    It's slightly arguable that 'buy more RAM or you won't get your app this year' is for consumers but it's still slimy.

    That's where the VC comes in. They forego the space heater and just burn the money.



  • C/C++.
    Java.
    Adobe AIR.
    .NET and Xamarin.

    We should invent a new cross-platform framework, guys! I don't think any such thing has ever existed! There won't be any downsides, and nobody will ever have reason to hate it! We'll make it perfect!



  • @boomzilla said in In Defense of Electron:

    @onyx said in In Defense of Electron:

    Found this gem in the comments:

    Sure QT can create cross platform UIs, but with a $300 yearly price tag for one developer and no support.

    The fuck are you on, dude? No, buddy, you pay for support, it's free otherwise. And the ONLY thing you need to pay for other than support is of you're modifying the Qt core AND want to keep those modifications closed source. It shouldn't take you more than 5 fucking minutes to read this on the site.

    And supposedly you're already paying the dev $150K+. It's gotta be a tiny fraction of the free expresso budget.

    The company I used to work for hired entry-level people around $40k. Text editors are fairly simple applications, so you might be able to get away with entry level people as long as you have some people above them to mentor. Let's say that they get paid $60k because we're cheap (and because that's what mid-level people earned at that company. This was also nearly a decade ago).

    To ensure that the juniors are covered, we'll hire an equal number of mids, so we have 3 juniors and 3 mids for total annual salary costs of 3*(40000+60000) or $300k. By hiring people who don't need to live in $3500/month apartments, the company's labor costs are one third of this guy's hypothetical company. How, exactly, does he stay in business?



  • @groaner said in In Defense of Electron:

    How, exactly, does he stay in business?

    If you read carefully, revenue seems to be vapor paid for by VC largess. Ideally they'll sell out to someone big before it all crashes down.



  • @boomzilla How long before Electron starts showing up as a requirement in job descriptions?



  • @bb36e said in In Defense of Electron:

    All right, let's see what he has to say...

    0_1503355439757_8ae671f8-ec0c-44a0-bdfa-0898484c3eac-image.png

    I'm out.

    When you visit that site for the first time, you get a notification that says “sign in to see your notifications”.



  • @bb36e said in In Defense of Electron:

    From the dev.to() community. Sharing ideas that makes us all better developers.

    Speaking the englishes that makes us the bestest grammings.



  • @raceprouk said in In Defense of Electron:

    @twelvebaud said in In Defense of Electron:

    Yes, but what value did that actually add?

    That is the $1m question.

    Nothing.

    Where do I collect my $1m ???



  • @onyx said in In Defense of Electron:

    Found this gem in the comments:

    Sure QT can create cross platform UIs, but with a $300 yearly price tag for one developer and no support.

    The fuck are you on, dude?

    He's high on JavaScript :trollface:



  • Nice old school computer, BBC Micro B and Master were better though.


  • SockDev

    @lucas1 said in In Defense of Electron:

    Nice old school computer, BBC Micro B and Master were better though.

    Of course they were, the Electron was the budget version of the Model B, and was Acorn's answer to the Spectrum.


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