VAT fraud?


  • Dupa

    @Dreikin said in WTF Bites:

    @kt_ said in WTF Bites:

    Brace yourself, this is a good one.

    So I've got this laptop with a dead battery. It's old, but it's still capable of playing 1080p, so I keep it for that. Sometimes, though, I have this urge to take it a few feet farther and well… I can't. So I decided to buy a new battery for it.

    I know fuck all about batteries so I chose the one online store that sells a battery branded for this particular laptop model. Also, I've bought from them before. Because I don't like the VAT, I decided to buy it and get the invoice issued to my father's company. And here's where it started to get funny.

    1. There was no way to input address for the company, they just filled the delivery address as the company address. Had to email them to change it.
    2. When it finally got here, I wasn't home, so the postman brought it back to the post office. I went there and they told me… they wouldn't give the package to me. Because it's addressed to the company, with no name there. This means that only people that are on the board or people with authorization signed by someone from the board, can retrieve it.
    3. If I were there when the postman came, she'd give it to me, no questions asked.

    On Monday I'm gonna call them and be very unpleasant to them. Mostly because it's not the first time they screwed up.

    You see, this is the second battery replacement I ordered from them. The first time they managed to mail it to the address on the invoice, instead of the delivery address. Fortunately it was only a few blocks away, so I was able to retrieve it quite easily.

    The next time, though, they sent me an email saying that they sent the 1500 PLN worth of stuff to me. They even included the tracking number for the package.

    The issue there was:

    1. I didn't order anything. It was my father's company that did.
    2. And the address was wrong, because it was from my first order from them and don't live there anymore.

    Which means, someone from the company somehow got from their system my delivery address from the first order when the company I just wanted to be on the invoice made an order with them. And they sent the stuff to me, but not me, a stranger really, because I don't live there anymore. And knowing how delivery companies work around here, they'd probably leave the stuff with the wrong people anyway!

    Luckily for them, the courier company allowed them to change the delivery address, because it was only a few blocks away.

    Fuck, I made two orders with them and they managed to screw up 3 times. Losers.

    Today, after realizing what happened, I wanted to yell at them real hard. I went to the website, saw they had a line open 8 AM - 8 PM (it was 5.30), called them. All I got was "we're open 8 - 4, Monday thru Friday".

    They can't even get their own opening times right!

    So basically you tried to commit VAT fraud and got a lot of trouble for your efforts?

    This response got me thinking. Don't you do that in the US too, when you have a company, buying certain type of stuff invoiced for the company to get the VAT deduction and increase costs? @Polygeekery, you might have some info on that?



  • VAT? In the US?


  • Dupa

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    Sure. I know it varies by state, but it's there.

    But if it seems wrong to you, forget the VAT part, think "increasing costs" to have to pay less "tax" instead.


  • Dupa

    Forgot to add: and most importantly, is this frowned upon, I mean socially? Around here it's completely normal and no one cares one way or another.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    They're in the old military base. Just ask for the Lieutenant at the door and he'll show you.



  • @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    Sure. I know it varies by state, but it's there.

    This article only mentions VAT once and it's in this context:

    Unlike value added tax,


  • Dupa

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    Sure. I know it varies by state, but it's there.

    This article only mentions VAT once and it's in this context:

    Unlike value added tax,

    I must be thinking:

    Gonna ask Google, what the difference is.


  • Dupa

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    Sure. I know it varies by state, but it's there.

    This article only mentions VAT once and it's in this context:

    Unlike value added tax,

    I must be thinking:

    Gonna ask Google, what the difference is.

    Based on this, the only difference is sales tax means that only the consumer pays it and VAT is paid for every transaction, no matter if the buyer is a costumer.

    Hence, the question in the OP still stands.



  • @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    Sure. I know it varies by state, but it's there.

    This article only mentions VAT once and it's in this context:

    Unlike value added tax,

    I must be thinking:

    Gonna ask Google, what the difference is.

    You can't commit sales tax fraud by buying something as a different entity because sales tax is a percentage of the price of the transaction. There is such a thing as a "business expense", though.



  • @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    no matter if the buyer is a costumer

    Sales tax doesn't count for theatrical clothiers???


  • Dupa

    @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    no matter if the buyer is a costumer

    Sales tax doesn't count for theatrical clothiers???

    Sure thing. If the buyer has a VAT ID.



  • @kt_ To my knowledge, only charitable organizations and churches are exempt from sales tax in the US and that may vary from state to state. Other than that, you pay full sales tax.

    Do note that some types of items (such as food) may not be taxed. Again, this varies from state to state.


  • Dupa

    @powerlord said in VAT fraud?:

    @kt_ To my knowledge, only charitable organizations and churches are exempt from sales tax in the US and that may vary from state to state. Other than that, you pay full sales tax.

    Do note that some types of items (such as food) may not be taxed. Again, this varies from state to state.

    Gotcha. In Poland if a company is the buyer, it gets the VAT back. Seriously, they get it back. They first have to pay the full price, the seller pays the VAT for the product to the treasury and then at the end of the month or quarter (depending on some factors) the payer is given back that VAT amount, or rather they are given back the difference between how much VAT they paid to the treasury for stuff bought from them and how much VAT they paid to other companies.



  • @kt_ I think this is what you're looking for (click link to get correct section).



  • @ben_lubar said in VAT fraud?:

    VAT? In the US?

    It's more likely than you think!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    Based on this, the only difference is sales tax means that only the consumer pays it and VAT is paid for every transaction, no matter if the buyer is a costumer.

    Yes, but non-consumers can get repaid for the VAT they pay on business expenses. The aim is that the tax added is effectively on the “value added” by the business, hence the name. It makes it a tax that's relatively cheap to collect (since businesses are quite keen to register as that lets them get money back) but also makes it something of a magnet for fraudsters.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    Gotcha. In Poland if a company is the buyer, it gets the VAT back. Seriously, they get it back.

    In Germany, you often don't have to pay it in the first place, depending on the supplier you buy from.

    The only way to catch such VAT fraud is to check the inventory of the company. Not sure how often that happens…


  • Dupa

    @asdf said in VAT fraud?:

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    Gotcha. In Poland if a company is the buyer, it gets the VAT back. Seriously, they get it back.

    In Germany, you often don't have to pay it in the first place, depending on the supplier you buy from.

    The only way to catch such VAT fraud is to check the inventory of the company. Not sure how often that happens…

    Another problem with this is, you can always claim the thing broke or got lost. At least that's how they do it around here.

    My question from the OP was rather what is the usual or general reaction to actions as I described there. As I said, here in Poland it's BAU, a completely natural thing to do, no social stigmatization there.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @asdf said in VAT fraud?:

    The only way to catch such VAT fraud is to check the inventory of the company. Not sure how often that happens…

    How often are companies audited? That's supposed to pick this sort of thing up. Also, if the taxmen think that there's something odd going on, they'll have an extra fine look. (I'd guess that most larger companies would be fairly honest about this; it's smaller firms that are more likely to do this sort of thing. Larger companies have other, more technically legal ways of doing shenanigans.)


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @kt_ said in VAT fraud?:

    As I said, here in Poland it's BAU, a completely natural thing to do, no social stigmatization there.

    It's not too uncommon here in Germany, either.


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