Bravery Constrained



  • Holy fucking shit.

    His argument is effectively that Apple is constrained in what it can do in a phone because any technology included in the phone has to be available in huge volumes. If it were willing to sell fewer at a higher price, then it would have more options.

    Like a headphone jack?



  • @boomzilla said in Bravery Constrained:

    Like a headphone jack?

    Sapphire screen ? Apple (almost) singlehandedly bankrupted the only company making them a few years ago.



  • @boomzilla

    Looks like I might be right after all, about the samsung costing less than iPhone.

    iPhone can't use size as an excuse anymore. They're charging the price of a low end gaming system.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    They're charging the price of a low end gaming system.

    From what I can gather you can get an Xbox One S/PlayStation 4 Pro (the top of their respective ranges) for about half the price of an iPhone 7



  • @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    iPhone can't use size as an excuse anymore. They're charging the price of a low end gaming system.

    This is all speculation right now.


  • SockDev

    @vault_dweller said in Bravery Constrained:

    @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    They're charging the price of a low end gaming system.

    From what I can gather you can get an Xbox One S/PlayStation 4 Pro (the top of their respective ranges) for about half the price of an iPhone 7

    console <> gaming system.

    0_1499786116332_64b79b2f-39e2-4ec5-ba44-1767c7040256-image.png


  • kills Dumbledore

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract? My wife just got an iPhone 7 for 0 up front cost. She probably could have got a large capacity 7 Plus without paying more than about £50 up front if she'd wanted it and been OK with paying more per month.

    Does it really matter what the unlocked price is if most people are paying some smallish amount and then a larger monthly bill than they need? This seems like one of those things that's important to tech journalists in the Silicon Valley bubble (the ones who talk about having a "daily driver" and switching between flagships regularly, and write self important articles about whether you should swap your Samsung Galaxy that came out 6 months ago for the new Edge Plus model), but won't actually factor into most people's decisions


  • SockDev

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.


  • SockDev

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Plus, you can buy them without carrier lock and shovelware


  • kills Dumbledore

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Well yeah, so do I but I also don't buy flagships since mid range Android got well into the "good enough" range.

    I offered to use the 0% money transfer option on my credit card to let my wife buy her new phone outright but she doesn't like relying on me for her personal purchases and as a stay at home mum she doesn't have the credit score to get a similar deal herself. She's still saving money compared to her old contract though



  • @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    You monster. How are telecoms supposed to make their billions of dollars if you're not even willing to give them money for nothing?


  • SockDev

    @anonymous234 said in Bravery Constrained:

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    You monster. How are telecoms supposed to make their billions of dollars if you're not even willing to give them money for nothing?

    tell them to get government subsidies. it works for big oil so it should work for them.


  • SockDev

    @anonymous234 said in Bravery Constrained:

    How are telecoms supposed to make their billions of dollars if you're not even willing to give them money for nothing?

    The industry really needs to find a better trading medium than a Dire Straits single.


  • BINNED

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Well yeah, so do I but I also don't buy flagships since mid range Android got well into the "good enough" range.

    My Google Pixel is much better than good enough! It works like a charm, updates regularly and looks good.

    Ditch crappy Samsung, they better stick to their flagship Enlightened OS.



  • @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @anonymous234 said in Bravery Constrained:

    How are telecoms supposed to make their billions of dollars if you're not even willing to give them money for nothing?

    The industry really needgots to find a better trading medium than a Dire Straits singlemove these colour TVs.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @dse said in Bravery Constrained:

    Samsung

    :vomit:

    My last two phones have been Motorolas. Both have worked like a charm, had semi regular updates (my Moto X Play keeps being promised 7.1 any week now) and looked good


  • BINNED

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    mt Moto X Play keeps being promised 7.1 any week now

    0_1499787775405_Screenshot_20170711-084141.png



  • @dse said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Well yeah, so do I but I also don't buy flagships since mid range Android got well into the "good enough" range.

    My Google Pixel is much better than good enough! It works like a charm, updates regularly and looks good.

    Ditch crappy Samsung, they better stick to their flagship Enlightened OS.

    Yeah, my Nexus 6P has been largely the same way. It's beginning to show its age a bit by having some issues with random lockups, but given that I've had it for over a year and a half now I'm starting to debate whether or not I'll end up picking up whatever the Pixel 2 (or whatever it ends up being called) will be.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @dse and does that version bump make it worth paying twice as much in your view? If so, great. That's why we have different products at different price points.

    For me, the OS is mature enough that being one version behind doesn't mean that much to me. I'll probably upgrade within the next 6 months or so as my charger port is getting a bit crappy but in terms of performance and functionality I have no real need to



  • @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    as my charger port is getting a bit crappy

    replace your charger port and save money while saving the environment



  • @e4tmyl33t said in Bravery Constrained:

    It's beginning to show its age a bit by having some issues with random lockups, but given that I've had it for over a year and a half

    :person_facepalming:

    Is this what it's come to. Phones that barely last a year...



  • @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    @e4tmyl33t said in Bravery Constrained:

    It's beginning to show its age a bit by having some issues with random lockups, but given that I've had it for over a year and a half

    :person_facepalming:

    Is this what it's come to. Phones that barely last a year...

    I usually keep myself on a 1.5-2 year cycle since I started buying smartphones, mostly tied into the update lifecycle from the manufacturers. Once I know its update-end-of-life is coming, it's time to look for something to replace it. Part of that is probably the "Must have new shiny" instinct in my head nudging me to always have the latest version of Android, and part is probably that by the time 2 years has gone by, the battery in the phone is probably shitting itself and down to 50% original capacity.


  • BINNED

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    paying twice as much

    I paid about 600 but got back like 300 through some T-Mobile rebate. I did not know about the rebate beforehand. If you are trapped in Verizon, you can also get a Pixel with their plan I think. But it is a shame to pay too much for data, be a good sport and ditch Verizon too :--)



  • @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    Is this what it's come to. Phones that barely last a year...

    Gotta keep your hipster points !



  • @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    tell them to get government subsidies. it works for big oil so it should work for them.

    Hey hey hey! As a Garage conscientious objector you shouldn't be trolling like this!



  • @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    That may depend on the carrier. I recently got a new phone from T-Mobile, and the options were $500 retail price or $20 down and $20/month for 24 months. I think other carriers are starting to do it the same way.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    @e4tmyl33t said in Bravery Constrained:

    It's beginning to show its age a bit by having some issues with random lockups, but given that I've had it for over a year and a half

    :person_facepalming:

    Is this what it's come to. Phones that barely last a year...

    TIL >1.5 = barely 1



  • @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    and does that version bump make it worth paying twice as much in your view? If so, great. That's why we have different products at different price points.

    Except there aren't any middle-end Google-supported phones anymore. It's $650 Pixel or fuck you (Nexus ones are still sold but not for much longer).

    Motorola used to be the best one at software support (since they were owned by Google), but now they're owned by Lenovo so who knows...

    Still, "best" with Android means 3 years so I guess there's not much of a difference.

    Meanwhile 10 year old desktops can easily run the latest Windows with all the fancy animations and stuff, and I don't think I've ever found a desktop old enough that it couldn't run the latest Lubuntu.



  • @anonymous234 said in Bravery Constrained:

    I don't think I've ever found a desktop old enough that it couldn't run the latest Lubuntu.

    Do you want my 386 box?



  • @xaade said in Bravery Constrained:

    iPhone can't use size as an excuse anymore. They're charging the price of a low end gaming system.

    Low-end? I hate to break this to you but all the gaming systems right now are only $250-$300, unless you really want the "luxury edition" and then it's a bit more. (The most expensive right now is the Xbox One X at $500.)

    iPhones last I checked were closer to the $650 range. I'm pretty sure iPhones have always been more expensive than gaming systems, but I'm too lazy to look that up.



  • @blakeyrat said in Bravery Constrained:

    Low-end? I hate to break this to you but all the gaming systems right now are only $250-$300, unless you really want the "luxury edition" and then it's a bit more. (The most expensive right now is the Xbox One X at $500.)

    He/She/It was talking about PC gaming system obviously.



    1. It wasn't obvious to me, obviously.
    2. People should say what they mean. if you mean "gaming PC" say "gaming PC" not something other than "gaming PC".

  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @blakeyrat said in Bravery Constrained:

    I'm pretty sure iPhones have always been more expensive than gaming systems, but I'm too lazy to look that up.

    I'm not!

    @wikipedia said:

    The first generation iPhone was released on June 29, 2007

    @random website said:

    4GB: $499 8GB: $599

    @wikipedia said:

    [The Playstation 3] was first released on November 11, 2006 [...] Two hardware configurations were also announced for the console: a 20 GB model and a 60 GB model, priced at US$499 (€499) and US$599 (€599), respectively

    @wikipedia said:

    At launch, the Xbox 360 was available in two configurations: the "Xbox 360" package (unofficially known as the 20 GB Pro or Premium), priced at US$399 or GB£279.99, and the "Xbox 360 Core", priced at US$299 and GB£209.99.

    So yes, the original iphone was as expensive as the shockingly-high priced PS3, and console prices have dropped since then while iphone prices have risen.



  • If I ever give in and give up Windows Phone, I'll probably only buy OnePlus phones.



  • @magus I wish OnePlus would release another phone like the X, but I doubt it'll ever happen.



  • @blakeyrat said in Bravery Constrained:

    1. It wasn't obvious to me, obviously.
    2. People should say what they mean. if you mean "gaming PC" say "gaming PC" not something other than "gaming PC".

    I'm deeply terribly sorry.



  • @e4tmyl33t said in Bravery Constrained:

    Once I know its update-end-of-life is coming, it's time to look for something to replace it. Part of that is probably the "Must have new shiny" instinct in my head nudging me to always have the latest version of Android, and part is probably that by the time 2 years has gone by, the battery in the phone is probably shitting itself and down to 50% original capacity.

    As far as I'm concerned, once an Android phone has hit its update EOL, it's dead. Too much security risk.

    ... that's also an excellent way to justify the "must have new shiny" instinct if that's what you need/want to do. :D



  • @yamikuronue said in Bravery Constrained:

    So yes, the original iphone was as expensive as the shockingly-high priced PS3, and console prices have dropped since then while iphone prices have risen.

    Not surprisingly, when you compare something against a statistical outlier, people tend to look down on said comparison.


  • Dupa

    @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Plus, you can buy them without carrier lock and shovelware

    Buying an iPhone covers that.


  • SockDev

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Plus, you can buy them without carrier lock and shovelware

    Buying an iPhone covers that.

    But then you have an iPhone.

    Ew.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Plus, you can buy them without carrier lock and shovelware

    Buying an iPhone covers that.

    So Stocks isn't shovelware? Apple Maps? Newsstand?

    Every iPhone user I know has a folder hidden away on the last homescreen of stuff they don't ever use but can't hide because iPhones don't have a distinction between the app drawer and home screen


  • Dupa

    @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Plus, you can buy them without carrier lock and shovelware

    Buying an iPhone covers that.

    But then you have an iPhone.

    Yes! There are no downsides to that!


  • Dupa

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    @raceprouk said in Bravery Constrained:

    @accalia said in Bravery Constrained:

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    How many people buying flagship phones get them outright rather than through a subsidised contract?

    o/

    because i did the math and it's cheaper this way.

    Plus, you can buy them without carrier lock and shovelware

    Buying an iPhone covers that.

    So Stocks isn't shovelware? Apple Maps? Newsstand?

    Every iPhone user I know has a folder hidden away on the last homescreen of stuff they don't ever use but can't hide because iPhones don't have a distinction between the app drawer and home screen

    Shovelware is the stuff the carrier puts on your phone, not the manufacturer, as was the original point.


    EDIT also, man you're touchy. Ok, ok, Android from a carrier rulezzzz.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @kt_ Shovelware is shit you don't want, whether it's Samsung's copy of the Market, gallery and every other default app that's also still there, or O2's "give us money for extra shit you don't want" app. I suspect if the Stocks app was uninstallable or hideable, more people would get rid of it than keep it.

    I agree iPhones are generally better than Androids, particularly cheap, carrier locked Androids, but to claim there's nothing unwanted on them is ridiculous.

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    EDIT also, man you're touchy. Ok, ok, Android from a carrier rulezzzz.

    Sorry, haven't had my Nescafe today


  • Dupa

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    @kt_ Shovelware is shit you don't want, whether it's Samsung's copy of the Market, gallery and every other default app that's also still there, or O2's "give us money for extra shit you don't want" app.

    Well, I prefer the other definition of shovelware.

    I suspect if the Stocks app was uninstallable or hideable, more people would get rid of it than keep it.

    I'm not sure how to parse that.

    I agree iPhones are generally better than Androids, particularly cheap, carrier locked Androids, but to claim there's nothing unwanted on them is ridiculous.

    Huh? It wasn't my claim here. My claim was, you don't get non-stock apps with iPhones. The same as the person I was replying to meant that there were non in Pixels.

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    EDIT also, man you're touchy. Ok, ok, Android from a carrier rulezzzz.

    Sorry, haven't had my Nescafe today

    Remember to drink 10 of them. It's never too much.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    I'm not sure how to parse that.

    If it were possible to hide or uninstall the stocks app, more people would hide or uninstall it than would keep it. The point being that it's an app most people don't use and would rather not have cluttering up their homescreens.

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    Well, I prefer the other definition of shovelware.

    You would, it neatly defines your beloved iPhones as not having any.

    Weren't you the one complaining about the duplicated apps on the loaner android you had? They're shovelware apps IMO


  • Dupa

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    I'm not sure how to parse that.

    If it were possible to hide or uninstall the stocks app, more people would hide or uninstall it than would keep it. The point being that it's an app most people don't use and would rather not have cluttering up their homescreens.

    Ah, right. I believe you can do that since iOS 10.

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    Well, I prefer the other definition of shovelware.

    You would, it neatly defines your beloved iPhones as not having any.

    Well, not exactly. It also nearly defines Pixels and Nexuses.

    Weren't you the one complaining about the duplicated apps on the loaner android you had? They're shovelware apps IMO

    Yup, but that was actual shovelware, added by Samsung. I wouldn't have complained if these were Google apps.

    And my main complaint there was that these apps weren't even pre-authorized!


  • kills Dumbledore

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    Ah, right. I believe you can do that since iOS 10.

    Fair enough. I don't keep up to date with OSes I don't use.


  • Dupa

    @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    @kt_ said in Bravery Constrained:

    Ah, right. I believe you can do that since iOS 10.

    Fair enough. I don't keep up to date with OSes I don't use.

    Well, even though it's possible, I get your point.



  • @jaloopa said in Bravery Constrained:

    ...because iPhones don't have a distinction between the app drawer and home screen

    :wtf:



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