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  • :belt_onion:

    GUYS, WHO CONTRACTED AN SEO FIRM TO SPAM THE FORUMS WITH ALL THE SEARCH TERMS?


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  • BINNED

    Could at least have identified the main language of the forum rather than posting all the languages



  • @jaloopa
    No Dutch? Fuck them!


  • BINNED

    @luhmann I said languages, not weird moon languages



  • @jaloopa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-1095:

    not weird moon languages

    so no Flemish? :sadface:



  • @luhmann said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @jaloopa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-1095:

    not weird moon languages

    so no Flemish? :sadface:

    Flemish isn’t a language. (Luckily for me, because I live little more than a stone’s throw from Flanders.)



  • @gurth
    Potverdekke



  • @luhmann Dunno. It's weird that Frisian is a language but Flemish is not.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @pleegwat said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    It's weird that Frisian is a language but Flemish is not.

    That's what you get with a bit smarter marketing.



  • @gurth said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    Flemish isn’t a language. (Luckily for me, because I live little more than a stone’s throw from Flanders.)



  • @pleegwat said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @luhmann Dunno. It's weird that Frisian is a language but Flemish is not.

    Mutual intelligibility, I think. Now, I live about as far from Groningen as it’s possible to get while remaining in the Netherlands, but I suspect that people speaking a Gronings dialect of Dutch still have a relatively hard time understanding Frisian. On the other hand, most Flemish dialects are fairly straightforward to understand for me and, I suppose, most other people who’ve grown up in the southern part of the Netherlands before the loss of native dialects due to that bloody TV-Hollands taking over in recent decades.



  • @gurth
    I always thought it's also a question of roots. Frisian has distinct roots that are different from Dutch and all associated dialects.



  • @luhmann said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @gurth
    I always thought it's also a question of roots.

    That too, but go back far enough and it must have been mutually intelligible with other Germanic languages of the era. It probably really gets down to the basic question of when does a dialect become a language?

    Frisian has distinct roots that are different from Dutch and all associated dialects.

    What, it didn’t come from the Tower of Babel? ;)


  • BINNED

    @gurth said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    It probably really gets down to the basic question of when does a dialect become a language?

    That's similar to the question of when a population becomes a subspecies becomes a species



  • @jaloopa subspecies to species is easy - no more fertile offsprings. Population to subspecies is basically bikeshedding.


  • BINNED

    @gąska there are other cases though, because biology is messy. The London Underground Mosquito is close enough to the overground versions morphologically that they could produce viable offspring but their mating behaviours have diverged so much that they're not actually able to mate. Inseminating one from the other would be feasible. There's some disagreement over whether they should count as a separate species or a subspecies



  • @jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.


  • sockdevs

    @gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.

    They've been taking too many lessons from astronomers



  • @gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.

    That's biology for you. It's more complicated than words.



  • @boomzilla you know what is also complicated? Quantum physics. But you know what quantum physics does not have? Vague terms. If they can have precise terminology, so can kitten stalkers and gardeners.



  • @gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @boomzilla you know what is also complicated? Quantum physics. But you know what quantum physics does not have? Vague terms. If they can have precise terminology, so can kitten stalkers and gardeners.

    No. Because we keep finding exceptions that don't match. But I think this is more a philosophical problem than anything.



  • @gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    @jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.

    What I see here is that life is more complicated than mathematics (sure, we can be arbitrary with it when we made it up) and while as humans we like to put things into little boxes, sometimes that's hard for things that have been proven to be on a continuum.



  • @heterodox the problem isn't that biologists are unable to put everything into little neat labeled boxes. The problem is that it's pretty much an impossible task given our current taxonomical model, yet biologists still try to fit everything in this stupid model instead of thinking up another one that makes more sense.

    I'm fine with lack of labels - I only have problem with useless and misleading ones.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @heterodox said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    What I see here is that life is more complicated than mathematics (sure, we can be arbitrary with it when we made it up)

    We didn't make up math; we discovered it.


  • sockdevs

    @masonwheeler said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    We didn't make up math; we discovered it.

    Actually, we did make up maths, as a way to model (what happens in) the physical world. The fact we continually strive to make those models more accurate is why maths is such a precise and well-defined subject.


  • BINNED

    @masonwheeler said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    We didn't make up math; we discovered it.

    @raceprouk said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:

    Actually, we did make up maths

    There's not really a full consensus among mathematical philosophers. On the one hand, it does seem like there's something fundamental to the logical inferences, and the usual set of axioms is chosen to be a good reflection of what we observe in the real world, but on the other hand, those axioms are at least a bit arbitrary and a different set could lead to a very different mathematical landscape. See what happened when Euclid's 5th postulate (the parallel postulate) was taken out, leading to non Euclidean geometry


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