Re: Fuck Google


  • :belt_onion:

    Speaking of Fuck Google.

    tl;dr version:
    Recently, a lot of people who bought used Google Pixel phones suddenly found their phones no longer working and blacklisted as "stolen". Contacting the carrier and Google resulted in a variety of answers, including

    No, it's not blacklisted
    It's blacklisted and there's nothing we can do about it
    It's blacklisted but we didn't do it
    OK, maybe there's a problem, we'll look into it

    Apparently, phones that were originally purchased from Google's "Project Fi" where not properly disconnected from the original account.

    Full story is here.



  • @El_Heffe lots of used phones for sale are stolen.


  • Dupa

    @El_Heffe are you surprised? Google is the largest tech company in the world that hates its clients. That's just another symptom.


  • :belt_onion:

    @wharrgarbl said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @El_Heffe lots of used phones for sale are stolen.

    Yes they are. But that wasn't the case this time.



  • @El_Heffe said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @wharrgarbl said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @El_Heffe lots of used phones for sale are stolen.

    Yes they are. But that wasn't the case this time.

    Sounds like it was stolen from you.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Google is the largest tech company in the world that hates its clients.

    I'm fairly sure that Apple is larger.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Carriers should never blacklist a phone on their own accord. It should always come from a theft report by someone with that phone tied to their account.


  • Dupa

    @dkf said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Google is the largest tech company in the world that hates its clients.

    I'm fairly sure that Apple is larger.

    Apple is a larger company, but it doesn't hate its customers, so I don't understand where you're going with this?...



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @dkf said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Google is the largest tech company in the world that hates its clients.

    I'm fairly sure that Apple is larger.

    Apple is a larger company, but it doesn't hate its customers, so I don't understand where you're going with this?...

    s/hate/fleece/g

    perhaps?


  • SockDev

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Apple is a larger company, but it doesn't hate its customers, so I don't understand where you're going with this?...

    This is the company that literally told its customers that they were holding their phones wrong.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @Arantor and that if they wanted porn they should buy an android



  • @Jaloopa said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Arantor and that if they wanted pornsex they should buy an android


  • Dupa

    @Arantor said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Apple is a larger company, but it doesn't hate its customers, so I don't understand where you're going with this?...

    This is the company that literally told its customers that they were holding their phones wrong.

    They never did:

    Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.

    This is the official statement.

    Oh, and a nice explanation of what the bug was:

    Note this part (screenshot, because somehow copying doesn't work):

    0_1496003365890_IMG_3416.PNG

    So yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one.


  • Dupa

    @Jaloopa said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Arantor and that if they wanted porn they should buy an android

    This one I'm unfamiliar with?


  • SockDev

    @kt_ The official statement, sure. Except Jobs himself did say what amounted to that.

    "Just avoid holding it in that way."

    How else can one interpret that than 'you're holding it wrong'?


  • SockDev

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.

    This is the official statement.

    TL:DR: You're holding it wrong.


  • Dupa

    @Arantor said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ The official statement, sure. Except Jobs himself did say what amounted to that.

    "Just avoid holding it in that way."

    How else can one interpret that than 'you're holding it wrong'?

    It won't work another way? Sure, they didn't say outright "we designed it badly", but that's something no company would say.

    Seriously, they ended up distributing bumpers to iPhone 4 owners free of charge. What else would you want? That they treat them as bad as Google and they their phones?


  • Dupa

    This one is too bad to be true. Seriously:

    These are the last two communications I have gotten from Project Fi. And keep in mind, these are the last communications I got from Google/Project Fi support after getting numerous conflicting answers previously. The first quote below via email, the second through its Pixel community forum.

    We currently do not have additional information and are waiting for our engineers to provide us with details. As soon as we hear back from them, we'll be sure to update you.

    Thank you for sharing this with us on the Forum. Our team is aware and we are working to restore access to impacted devices.

    Is google becoming the United of tech companies?

    ETA

    The Pixel XL is the best phone I have ever used. I already bought another one from Google, but that was when Google had explained to me the phone was stolen. I accepted it was stolen, accepted responsibility for that, and moved on. Had I know that Project Fi was in fact blacklisting these phones, for whatever uncommunicated reason, I would have not bought another Pixel phone. "Fool me once...shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me," does not quite fit here due to Google and Project Fi support being less than truthful about the entire situation.

    Haha?



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @dkf said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Google is the largest tech company in the world that hates its clients.

    I'm fairly sure that Apple is larger.

    Apple is a larger company, but it doesn't hate its customers, so I don't understand where you're going with this?...

    undefined


  • SockDev

    @kt_ You'll notice I wasn't casting judgement on whether this was bad design or not, or whether they handled it appropriately.

    Just if you're comparing Apple to Google for user hostility, Apple literally told their customers they were using the product wrong - even if they backpedalled/respun the statement later, something I don't believe Google has done so explicitly.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    This one I'm unfamiliar with?



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Arantor said in Re: Fuck Google:

    This is the company that literally told its customers that they were holding their phones wrong.

    They never did:

    Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.

    This is the official statement.

    Yeah... that's bullshit.

    Any phone will experience signal attenuation if your hand is positioned directly covering its antenna, but that isn't at all what was causing problems for the iPhone. Its problem was that the conductivity of your hand in direct contact with its metallic antenna was shorting it out. It was drastically worse than the "fact of life for every wireless phone" issue that Apple tried to blame it on.

    The proof is found in the "use a case" solution: your hand in the same exact place, directly covering the antenna, won't cause nearly the signal loss if there's just an electrical insulator between them. The biggest factor in the phone's signal problems was the fact that it's antenna was exposed. A simple insulator fixed the problem. Hell, it didn't even have to be a case...

    A lower-cost alternative is to cover the left-side antenna with a piece of thick tape or duct tape to prevent the contact.

    So... no... the "user's hand directly covering the place where the phone's antenna is" problem was not unique to the iPhone. But the "phone's antenna is positioned pretty much right where the user's hand will be and it's not electrically insulated from your sweaty mitts" problem pretty much was.

    When a phone's out-of-the-box signal problems can be solved with duct tape, I think it's safe to say that the phone's design was flawed, and call bullshit on any attempt to blame it on a phenomenon that affects all phones, or blame the problem on how users are holding it.


  • Dupa

    @anotherusername yeah, I'm not trying to deny that the design was flawed. It surely was. My whole point is, they didn't really say "you're holding it wrong". They admitted to the flawed design in as much an honest manner as a company can and they pointed out that in order to not have this problem you can either hold the phone differently or buy a bumper (which they subsequently distributed free of charge to all of the owners and the program was active for like a year). They never said "this phone was designed to be held in a different manner, you're doing it wrong" which is something you could call "blaming the customer for holding it wrong". No, they didn't. It was a simple matter-of-fact statement.

    A small anecdote here: I did own an iPhone 4 and it did not have this issue. I'm glad of that, because I would hate using a bumper, this phone was too beautiful to do that! 🙂



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    yeah, I'm not trying to deny that the design was flawed. It surely was. My whole point is, they didn't really say "you're holding it wrong".

    They basically said as much. It wasn't even just "you're holding it wrong"... if you read between the lines it was "the obvious way to hold this phone is wrong... and you're all idiots, if you can't even figure out how to hold a phone correctly."

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    They admitted to the flawed design in as much an honest manner as a company can and they pointed out that in order to not have this problem you can either hold the phone differently or buy a bumper (which they subsequently distributed free of charge to all of the owners and the program was active for like a year).

    ...eventually. Yeah, they did; I'll give them that much. Although it was pretty much just damage control at that point.

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    They never said "this phone was designed to be held in a different manner, you're doing it wrong" which is something you could call "blaming the customer for holding it wrong".

    Because it wasn't. The geniuses who came up with the brillant idea of getting some extra antenna length by wrapping an exposed piece of metal around part of its frame obviously never even considered that how it was designed to be held meant that the user would likely be directly touching the antenna if they put it there and left it exposed like that, and that changes an antenna's characteristics... a lot.

    edit: fwiw, the downvote on that latest post of yours wasn't from me.



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    iPhone 4 ... this phone was too beautiful

    E_INVALID_VALUE
    "too beautiful" outside of allowed range of values for variable "beauty" in class "iPhone4"



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    A small anecdote here: I did own an iPhone 4 and it did not have this issue. I'm glad of that, because I would hate using a bumper, this phone was too beautiful to do that! 🙂

    What's more beautiful: iPhone 4 with a bumper that was accidentally dropped, or iPhone 4 without a bumper that was accidentally dropped?

    But seriously, who buys phone for looks? It spends most of your life in your pocket, and when it's outside, half the time you have it covered with palm on one side and with cheek on the other, so no ones sees it anyway. And when you're not calling but reading, you have one side still covered with palm, and the other contains sensitive information you don't want anyone to see.



  • @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    But seriously, who buys phone for looks?

    Apple customers 🛒


  • Dupa

    @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    A small anecdote here: I did own an iPhone 4 and it did not have this issue. I'm glad of that, because I would hate using a bumper, this phone was too beautiful to do that! 🙂

    What's more beautiful: iPhone 4 with a bumper that was accidentally dropped, or iPhone 4 without a bumper that was accidentally dropped?

    But seriously, who buys phone for looks? It spends most of your life in your pocket, and when it's outside, half the time you have it covered with palm on one side and with cheek on the other, so no ones sees it anyway. And when you're not calling but reading, you have one side still covered with palm, and the other contains sensitive information you don't want anyone to see.

    Well, I'll be straight with you, I kinda do. I like beautiful stuff and when I shell out this kinda money as all top- range phones cost (especially iPhone) I really don't feel like putting it into a hideous case? I spend a lot of time using my phone, it isn't "mostly in my pocket".

    To answer your question about which is more beautiful: of course a dropped iPhone.


  • Dupa

    @TimeBandit said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    But seriously, who buys phone for looks?

    Apple customers 🛒

    Ditto. Is this supposed to be an insult?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @TimeBandit said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    But seriously, who buys phone for looks?

    Apple customers 🛒

    Ditto. Is this supposed to be an insult?

    Is it an insult if it's true? 😕


  • Dupa

    @anotherusername said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    yeah, I'm not trying to deny that the design was flawed. It surely was. My whole point is, they didn't really say "you're holding it wrong".

    They basically said as much. It wasn't even just "you're holding it wrong"... if you read between the lines it was "the obvious way to hold this phone is wrong... and you're all idiots, if you can't even figure out how to hold a phone correctly."

    I think you're reading between the lines a tad too much. Or it could be that your dislike for Apple makes you do that?

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    They admitted to the flawed design in as much an honest manner as a company can and they pointed out that in order to not have this problem you can either hold the phone differently or buy a bumper (which they subsequently distributed free of charge to all of the owners and the program was active for like a year).

    ...eventually. Yeah, they did; I'll give them that much. Although it was pretty much just damage control at that point.

    Well, maybe it was. I mean, I'm really not sure about this. Of course it was a case of bad design, but I don't know of any other case of a manufacturer handing away stuff to make up for such a thing. Usually it's "give it in for a repair and if it's a thing we can't really fix" (as it was in this case, "then fuck you."

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    They never said "this phone was designed to be held in a different manner, you're doing it wrong" which is something you could call "blaming the customer for holding it wrong".

    Because it wasn't. The geniuses who came up with the brillant idea of getting some extra antenna length by wrapping an exposed piece of metal around part of its frame obviously never even considered that how it was designed to be held meant that the user would likely be directly touching the antenna if they put it there and left it exposed like that, and that changes an antenna's characteristics... a lot.

    I don't really understand this paragraph? What was not?

    As for the bad design thing, I don't think they have ever thought that what they did would mean that holding the phone in a certain way could break something. It wasn't "heh, no one's gonna hold their phone this way", it was rather "hey, it works great, we're awesome!"

    Do you really think that if they realized that something like that could happen they would still go with this design?

    edit: fwiw, the downvote on that latest post of yours wasn't from me.

    Oh, thanks. I tend not to look at my score in threads about Apple, people tend do downvote any praise in this direction quite furiously.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    "hey, it works great in the test bench, we're awesome!"

    I rather think none of the test users actually used it for calls.


  • Dupa

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @TimeBandit said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    But seriously, who buys phone for looks?

    Apple customers 🛒

    Ditto. Is this supposed to be an insult?

    Is it an insult if it's true? 😕

    I think you can state a true thing in a manner that that you hope will be insulting, or in a manner that is insulting.

    E.g. "yeah, who would give a gun to a kid, it's a stupid thing to do? Probably someone like @Polygeekery". And hey, he probably would. If he controlled the environment and he could make sure it's all safe. But stated the former way it makes him look like a retarded redneck.

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    As for the bad design thing, I don't think they have ever thought that what they did would mean that holding the phone in a certain way could break something. It wasn't "heh, no one's gonna hold their phone this way", it was rather "hey, it works great, we're awesome!"

    That would be a good excuse for the first-ever smartphone from Bob's Discount Electronics. Not so much for Apple.


  • :belt_onion:

    @anotherusername said in Re: Fuck Google:

    if you read between the lines

    So then they figuratively said "you're holding it wrong."


  • Dupa

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.


  • Dupa

    @hungrier said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    As for the bad design thing, I don't think they have ever thought that what they did would mean that holding the phone in a certain way could break something. It wasn't "heh, no one's gonna hold their phone this way", it was rather "hey, it works great, we're awesome!"

    That would be a good excuse for the first-ever smartphone from Bob's Discount Electronics. Not so much for Apple.

    Ummm... spontaneously combusting batteries, anyone?

    ETA and I don't mean Samsung, I mean Sony/Dell, too.

    Also, this whole thread was about if they said "you're holding it wrong", and not if it was an engineering fuck-up. Of course it was, no one's disputing that. If you read the response you replied to again, you might be able to grasp the point I was making.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.

    Sorry, your identity was not found, interface not available. Please try again later.


  • Dupa

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.

    Sorry, your identity was not found, interface not available. Please try again later.

    It's a functional language, so there are no interfaces.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.

    Sorry, your identity was not found, interface not available. Please try again later.

    It's a functional language, so there are no interfaces.

    👍 well there's your 💁



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.

    Sorry, your identity was not found, interface not available. Please try again later.

    It's a functional language, so there are no interfaces.

    It's real pain. I love functional languages, but this is the one feature of imperative languages I cannot live without - being able to interface with outside world.


  • SockDev

    @Greybeard said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @anotherusername said in Re: Fuck Google:

    if you read between the lines

    So then they figuratively said "you're holding it wrong."

    The actual line was "Just avoid holding it in that way." - which for the typical way one would hold a phone is a thinly veiled way of saying just that.



  • @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.

    Sorry, your identity was not found, interface not available. Please try again later.

    It's a functional language, so there are no interfaces.

    It's real pain. I love functional languages, but this is the one feature of imperative languages I cannot live without - being able to interface with outside world.

    Naysayer. So what if it doesn't visibly do anything, just look at how pure this code is!


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Maciejasjmj said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Gąska said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Did I manage to unconfuse you?

    Noooo..... I wasn't confused before, but now I definitely am.

    Especially since it's the recipient's job to determine if it was stated in a manner to make it insulting. Help! Next you're going to tell me I need to participate in mind reading!

    Well, you definitely should do that.

    Sorry, your identity was not found, interface not available. Please try again later.

    It's a functional language, so there are no interfaces.

    It's real pain. I love functional languages, but this is the one feature of imperative languages I cannot live without - being able to interface with outside world.

    Naysayer. So what if it doesn't visibly do anything, just look at how pure this code is!

    Purely invisible? undefined



  • @Maciejasjmj obligatory xkcd:

    Haskell


  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    I don't really understand this paragraph? What was not?

    They never said "this phone was designed to be held in a different manner", because it (the phone) wasn't (designed to be held in a different manner).

    I don't think it (the antenna, at least) was designed for the phone to be held, period. How the phone was supposed to be held couldn't possibly have weighed into the decision to put the antenna there, because if they'd considered how you're supposed to hold it, they would've realized that they shouldn't put it there, or should cover it with something non-conductive so people's hands wouldn't directly touch it.

    Alternately, whoever engineered the antenna could've been completely incompetent and didn't realize that peoples fingers directly touching the antenna could cause reception problems... or maybe they even thought that touching an antenna improves reception; that's a pretty common impression that people have, but for an antenna designer? They should know better. For an antenna engineer to make such assumptions would be even worse than simply failing to think of it (the antenna on a mobile phone usually isn't exposed, so it's not something that they'd always have to consider).

    Literally the very first thing this random antenna designer said is, "it does not always improve it. Sometimes it makes it worse." The antenna of a cellphone is no different, except it's almost always protected -- you can't touch it. Whoever designed the iPhone 4 with the external, unprotected antenna failed to consider how big of a change that was and that it might cause issues. That's the only explanation that I can see.



  • @kt_ said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @Arantor said in Re: Fuck Google:

    @kt_ The official statement, sure. Except Jobs himself did say what amounted to that.

    "Just avoid holding it in that way."

    How else can one interpret that than 'you're holding it wrong'?

    It won't work another way? Sure, they didn't say outright "we designed it badly", but that's something no company would say.

    Seriously, they ended up distributing bumpers to iPhone 4 owners free of charge. What else would you want? That they treat them as bad as Google and they their phones?

    So... how much Apple stock do you own?

    They did what all companies do: Treated their customers like shit (Hey idiots, your holding your phone wrong - paraphrased in so many words)... and then back tracked when the shit storm rolled over their precious name brand.



  • @anotherusername said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Whoever designed the iPhone 4 with the external, unprotected antenna failed to consider how big of a change that was and that it might cause issues. That's the only explanation that I can see.

    Or they knew it sucked, but the bosses insisted the design was too neat not to use/we have to ship soon and can't make any big changes/we can't fit some other components otherwise/etc etc.

    Failure at some upper management level seems more likely.


  • :belt_onion:

    @anotherusername said in Re: Fuck Google:

    Whoever designed the iPhone 4 with the external, unprotected antenna failed to consider how big of a change that was and that it might cause issues. That's the only explanation that I can see.

    One of the big problems with phones is the inherent contradiction - on one hand you want the antenna as long as possible for maximum reception, but, you also want it as small as possible because it has to fit inside a device intended to be held in your hand.

    I doubt it was a case of engineer incompetence, or not considering all the possible implications of a particular design. Knowing how things tend to work with most companies, especially big companies, there are a lot of non-engineers involved in the design and decision-making process, many (most) of whom have more power/authority than the engineers.

    I suspect that at some point there was a discussion along the lines of "If we spend too much time on this it increases our costs too much. It works good enough, ship it."


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