United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said in Internet of shit:

    Yeah, it's positive.
    -ly the best way to scare off potential customers.

    I would agree, except that United seem to have gone for the jackpot.


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    @dkf said in Internet of shit:

    I would agree, except that United seem to have gone for the jackpot.

    I'm still wondering how anyone could have possibly had a good opinion of United before this incident. In my experience, they have been as customer-hostile as humanly possible for years.


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    @dkf said in Internet of shit:

    @RaceProUK said in Internet of shit:

    Yeah, it's positive.
    -ly the best way to scare off potential customers.

    I would agree, except that United seem to have gone for the jackpot.

    I don't get all the visceral reactions to the United debacle. They asked a customer to leave the flight, the customer refused which is a violation of a shitload of laws and regulations, then they had them removed by security. If anything, the airport security deserves all of the vitriol.

    I am not saying they did nothing wrong, but the customer was a pretty big fuckhead also.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @dkf said in Internet of shit:

    @RaceProUK said in Internet of shit:

    Yeah, it's positive.
    -ly the best way to scare off potential customers.

    I would agree, except that United seem to have gone for the jackpot.

    I don't get all the visceral reactions to the United debacle. They asked a customer to leave the flight, the customer refused which is a violation of a shitload of laws and regulations, then they had them removed by security. If anything, the airport security deserves all of the vitriol.

    I am not saying they did nothing wrong, but the customer was a pretty big fuckhead also.

    You may have missed the part where he said that he was a doctor and had to see patients the next morning. That should at least have yielded a: "Let's check this story out"

    Also: United realized that they needed four seats to shuffle crew around after they were practically done with the boarding process. They obviously have a pretty shitty dispatch then.


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    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    You may have missed the part where he said that he was a doctor and had to see patients the next morning. That should at least have yielded a: "Let's check this story out"

    Doesn't matter. Not to me anyway.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    You may have missed the part where he said that he was a doctor and had to see patients the next morning. That should at least have yielded a: "Let's check this story out"

    Doesn't matter. Not to me anyway.

    Yeah, you really deserve your title. Anyway, someone else have an opinion on this actually worth the air?


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    @Rhywden he knew a bump was possible. He should not have planned his travel so closely.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden he knew a bump was possible. He should not have planned his travel so closely.

    I don't care. See how that goes?


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    @Rhywden you don't have to care.


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  • @Polygeekery Yeah, I don't have to care about your opinions. You're fully correct on that.

    The fact of the matter is this: It's a stupid stunt by UA. Whatever your worthless opinions on this are, you don't matter. The people who do care about this, they matter.

    Also: There's something you do as a professional which is called "deescalation". You try to defuse the situation. You do not pour oil on the fire, regardless of whether you are legally right or not. Because otherwise you end up with a shitshow like this.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden

    Yes, there is a legal right. Still does not make it a smart move.


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    @Rhywden I just don't get why the passenger is given a total pass. He was being a fuckhead also.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden I just don't get why the passenger is given a total pass. He was being a fuckhead also.

    Where did I give the guy a pass?


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    @Rhywden you did not, but no one seems to be acknowledging it.



  • @Polygeekery Again, this is probably stemming from several things:

    a) The boarding process was basically complete and UA done goofed. That's why it's a very bad idea to try to get people out of a plane again after they've already taken their seats. Anyone would be at least a bit annoyed by that - anyone can easily empathize with him. Plus for the guy.
    b) The condition of the guy after being forcibly removed, with him being dragged down the lane like a sack of potatoes. Such images also don't go down well with the public. Plus for the guy.
    c) The first rather tone deaf statements by the UA, even using a statement that evokes the image of "Well, the perp ran into my fists repeatedly, your honor!" Plus for the guy.

    And so on. Also, underdog versus big guy. And this isn't UA's first incident of bad press which exacerbates the matter further.


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    @Rhywden yes, but once he disobeyed a flight attendant he had violated federal law and there was really no choice but to remove him.

    Overbooking flights and bumping people is a dick policy. Removing him after him being seated was a shit thing to do. Doing it because they needed to ferry their people is also shitty.

    But, the customer violated federal law and airport security removed him. United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.



  • @Polygeekery Maybe so. But that only shows that in this instance, your legal rights don't matter. You exercise your legal right and you make yourself the enemy. That's the case with quite a number of things: Just because you are allowed to do something doesn't mean that you should do something.

    And let's not forget: The whole thing started because UA made a mistake (dispatch noticed too late that they'd need a crew at another airport). And after that, another (dispatch notified the plane too late that they'd need four seats). Then they made the mistake of using an obviously too low incentive (remember: No one wanted to give up their seat voluntarily). Only after that made the passenger his mistake.


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    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    Also: There's something you do as a professional which is called "deescalation".

    This sentence is pretty ironic in context.

    Could you two get a room, please?



  • @asdf said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    Also: There's something you do as a professional which is called "deescalation".

    This sentence is pretty ironic in context.

    Could you two get a room, please?

    Naw. I'm a professional escalator.



  • @Rhywden Ain't no lation like an escalation.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    I'm a professional escalator.

    Hi, @Rhywden!



  • @asdf See how professional that thing is?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Rhywden The important question is: Is it connected to the internet?

    (Yeah, I know, staying on topic is :doing_it_wrong:)



  • Not a year goes by that I don't hear about some escalator accident involving some bastard kid which could have easily been avoided had some parent - I don't care which one - but some parent conditioned him to fear and respect that escalator.


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    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.

    Yes, but ask yourself this: Is there any possible way to do it better given the close quarters of a shitty commercial aircraft cabin?



  • @loopback0 Here's an amateur escalator:

    0_1492192098498_upload-6d5f301e-36b5-4cd1-bdd6-2e3ba659be5f



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.

    Yes, but ask yourself this: Is there any possible way to do it better given the close quarters of a shitty commercial aircraft cabin?

    As soon as you have to forcibly remove a passenger from one of your planes directly caused by your own mistakes and because you never gave thought to a plan B, you already lost.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.

    Yes, but ask yourself this: Is there any possible way to do it better given the close quarters of a shitty commercial aircraft cabin?

    I assume so. I find it hard to believe that's the only way to do it even with the customer being difficult.


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    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    Not a year goes by that I don't hear about some escalator accident involving some bastard kid which could have easily been avoided had some parent - I don't care which one - but some parent conditioned him to fear and respect that escalator.


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    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.

    Yes, but ask yourself this: Is there any possible way to do it better given the close quarters of a shitty commercial aircraft cabin?

    I assume so. I find it hard to believe that's the only way to do it even with the customer being difficult.

    Yes, but the use of sarin is also frowned upon. Fucking PC culture.


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    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.

    Yes, but ask yourself this: Is there any possible way to do it better given the close quarters of a shitty commercial aircraft cabin?

    As soon as you have to forcibly remove a passenger from one of your planes directly caused by your own mistakes and because you never gave thought to a plan B, you already lost.

    Yes, but I would just like for some part of the mainstream media or part of the outrage culture to acknowledge that the customer was also being a fuckhead.


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    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    Yes, but I would just like for some part of the mainstream media or part of the outrage culture to acknowledge that the customer was also being a fuckhead.

    Never going to happen; outrage always trumps rational thinking. I've actually experienced that (more or less) first-hand, and it was even the "trustworthy" part of the mainstream media that caused that particular shitstorm.

    Anyway, it's United. Those asshats definitely deserve it, so I'm just going to make some more :popcorn: and enjoy the show.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @loopback0 said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    United deserves none of the vitriol for how he was removed. That is on him, 100%.

    It's also on the security team removing him.

    Yes, but ask yourself this: Is there any possible way to do it better given the close quarters of a shitty commercial aircraft cabin?

    As soon as you have to forcibly remove a passenger from one of your planes directly caused by your own mistakes and because you never gave thought to a plan B, you already lost.

    Yes, but I would just like for some part of the mainstream media or part of the outrage culture to acknowledge that the customer was also being a fuckhead.

    Mr. Hobart, the United spokesman, confirmed that United sought passengers willing to give up their seats with compensation but that none stepped forward.

    Another United employee told passengers that the plane would not leave until four people got off, Mr. Bridges said. The employee specified that the airline had four United employees who needed to get to Louisville, he said.

    Four passengers were selected to be bumped, and three left without incident, Mr. Hobart said.

    Mr. Hobart would not say whether the bumped passengers were chosen by a computer, an employee or some combination of the two. But factors can include how long a customer would have to stay at the airport before being rebooked, he said, and the airline looks to avoid separating families or leaving unaccompanied minors.

    A United employee first approached a couple who appeared to be in their mid-20s, Mr. Bridges said, and the pair begrudgingly got off the plane. Then the United employee went to a man five rows behind Mr. Bridges and told him he needed to get off the plane. Mr. Bridges said the man told the employee: “I’m not getting off the plane. I’m a doctor; I have to see patients in the morning.”

    Mr. Hobart said: “We explained the scenario to the customer. That customer chose not to get out of his seat.”

    The United employee then told the man that if he did not get off the plane, she would call security. As she turned to leave, the man shouted after her, Mr. Bridges said. Specifically, he said, the passenger complained that he had been singled out because he was Chinese.

    “It was really intense, really uncomfortable,” he said.

    The situation also became uncomfortable for the United employees who then got on board and took the vacated seats, Mr. Bridges said. They were berated by passengers and told they should be ashamed, he said.


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    @Rhywden ...and?



  • @Polygeekery Unless you require the NYTimes to call someone a "shithead", this is a pretty neutral statement of the facts which lets anyone see how the situation escalated through the actions of both UA and the passenger.

    I'm not sure what you expect the "mainstream media" to do here. Unless you want something like character assassinations?



  • @Rhywden I've also heard that he was told before he boarded that there were no seats for him, and that after he was taken off the first time, he ran back and boarded again. He was offered compensation and refused because the next flight wasn't until the next day. And apparently his "doctor" license has been suspended for malpractice, supposedly he distributes drugs to people... but even without that information, I'd call the police on his behavior too. Of course, the police may have been able to handle the situation better, but still, did he think they would relent and let him stay on the flight anyway?

    We should probably split this into a new thread...



  • @LB_ said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden I've also heard that he was told before he boarded that there were no seats for him,

    Right. In what reality does that make sense? They know they have no seats for him but let him board anyway? Seriously?

    And congrats for falling for the smear campaign - the classic "But he's not an angel" defense.


  • mod

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    And this isn't UA's first incident of bad press which exacerbates the matter further.

    And not even the last this week:

    This one happen a while ago, but is just hitting the news now:


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    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    And congrats for falling for the smear campaign - the classic "But he's not an angel" defense.

    It is not a smear campaign. Just a telling of the facts. He is a lying shithead who was either lying about needing to get back to see his patients or he is a man who is practicing medicine without a license.

    I would also be perfectly ok with @mods splitting this to another thread if they are so inclined.


  • mod

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    Yes, but I would just like for some part of the mainstream media or part of the outrage culture to acknowledge that the customer was also being a fuckhead.

    There were several idiots involved in the fiasco. The attendants could have handled the situation better. The doctor could have been more gracious. The security team could have tried to deescalate prior to removing the doctor from the plane.

    It was a great big cluster fuck.


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    @abarker said in Internet of shit:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    Yes, but I would just like for some part of the mainstream media or part of the outrage culture to acknowledge that the customer was also being a fuckhead.

    There were several idiots involved in the fiasco. The attendants could have handled the situation better. The doctor could have been more gracious. The security team could have tried to deescalate prior to removing the doctor from the plane.

    It was a great big cluster fuck.

    Yes, but by the way it is being talked about by everyone, you would think that hired goons in UA uniforms manhandled the guy off the airplane. Once they ordered him off the plane, the rest of the events were set in motion and they deserve none of the vitriol for actions beyond that point.

    Everything up to that point is their fuckery. The video itself should not reflect on United though.



  • @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    And congrats for falling for the smear campaign - the classic "But he's not an angel" defense.

    It is not a smear campaign. Just a telling of the facts. He is a lying shithead who was either lying about needing to get back to see his patients or he is a man who is practicing medicine without a license.

    I would also be perfectly ok with @mods splitting this to another thread if they are so inclined.

    You really insist on keeping true to your title, aren't you? By the way, he has regained his medical license. But don't let that get in the way of your righteous anger, just keep believing alternative facts.

    Who exactly is the "lying shithead" here?


  • mod

    @LB_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:

    We should probably split this into a new thread...

    @Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:

    I would also be perfectly ok with @mods splitting this to another thread if they are so inclined.

    Dammit! now look what you made me do!


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    @Rhywden said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:

    @Polygeekery said in Internet of shit:

    @Rhywden said in Internet of shit:

    And congrats for falling for the smear campaign - the classic "But he's not an angel" defense.

    It is not a smear campaign. Just a telling of the facts. He is a lying shithead who was either lying about needing to get back to see his patients or he is a man who is practicing medicine without a license.

    I would also be perfectly ok with @mods splitting this to another thread if they are so inclined.

    You really insist on keeping true to your title, aren't you? By the way, he has regained his medical license. But don't let that get in the way of your righteous anger, just keep believing alternative facts.

    Who exactly is the "lying shithead" here?

    You are correct, digging deeper he got it back in 2016. So he may have had patients to get back to.

    But, that does not matter. When he booked the flight he knew that it was a possibility that he could get bumped and not make it back on that flight. End of story.

    When my wife and I got married, we did so in California. We went out a couple of days before absolutely necessary, just because we knew that this was a possibility. We never fly home on tight schedules unless we are flying on private aircraft where this will not happen. Piss poor planning on his part, and it does not excuse his behavior in any way. He acted like a petulant child.


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    @abarker said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:

    Dammit! now look what you made me do!

    Thank you sir.



  • @Polygeekery Y'know, for all the Ra-Ra-Freedom you guys shout, sometimes you really go in the complete opposite into what we Germans call "Obrigkeitshörigkeit" - slavish obedience to superiors.

    But it's probably okay, after all, it wasn't the government which did the beating.


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    @Rhywden said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:

    @Polygeekery Y'know, for all the Ra-Ra-Freedom you guys shout, sometimes you really go in the complete opposite into what we Germans call "Obrigkeitshörigkeit" - slavish obedience to superiors.

    :wtf: are you fucking droning on about now? The only freedom that should be violated here was his freedom once he broke a federal law and caused such a fuss. If not for the fuckhead passenger, this would just be a story of an airline bumping passengers, which would not be a story at all.


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