Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate



  • @anonymous234 said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    normal standing proportions

    So it is tall for a dwarf


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anonymous234 said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    @ben_lubar Looks like normal standing proportions to me... I think you're misinterpreting it somehow.

    Yeah. The monitor is a bit high, but it's close enough for documentation and muzack playing



  • @Weng
    Isn't getting high illegal in your neck of the woods? Hope your monitor doesn't get arrested... :p


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Well then...

    So, work laptop I had with me over the weekend (for emergency "OMG, shit is blowing up!" porpoises) decided it would be time to update. Fair enough, better do it over the weekend than in the middle of work.

    So, everything downloads, I kick of the upgrade yesterday evening (long weekends FTW), it does some reboots aaaand...

    I get a GRUB prompt. Can't find partitions it says. What the..

    So, boot into a live Linux system from PXE this morning and yup, sure, all Linux partitions (it was dual-booted) are unallocated space. Wonderful.

    I managed to boot into W10 manually from GRUB prompt, finished the update and rebooted into recovery console after that to run bootrec /FixMbr from there. Boots now.

    Linux partitions still gone, luckily there was pretty much nothing on there so data is not the issue. I am scared of doing this at home now though, since I have loads of data on my /home partition there.

    Top marks, MS. 10/10. I mean holy fuck, fucking up the bootloader (as older Windows versions tended to do) is one thing, outright fucking up my partitions is a new level of fuck!


    Filed under: Also, they removed the "Your files are where you left them" screen, so I can't call them liars... well played, MS, well played



  • @Onyx said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    Also, they removed the "Your files are where you left them" screen, so I can't call them liars... well played, MS, well played

    I think that screen only shows up if you have this option disabled:
    0_1492520368303_upload-75596d6f-14d8-4358-a864-b620e33f264c
    It's disabled by default on fresh installs.



  • So ... the Wondowers 10 Criters Plopdate breaks applications that are using VMWare ThinApp ... Fuck Yeah!



  • @Onyx Amazing. I applaud Microsoft's efforts to make sure There Can Only Be One OS on your computer. Although if they'd had done that on mine when I ran the update the only OS left on it after would have been Linux.

    I am actually getting more and more convinced the proper way to run Windows is in a VM, that way it'll have a hard time fucking over the entire computer.



  • @Atazhaia is there maybe some kind of low-level software that just abstracts the boot drive from Windows so it can't see (and screw with) partitions it didn't create? A full-on VM sounds like a hefty price to pay for just hiding some partitions. Maybe some layer between UEFI and Windows? (I know very little about this subject...)



  • @LB_ said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    is there maybe some kind of low-level software that just abstracts the boot drive from Windows so it can't see (and screw with) partitions it didn't create?

    Not software, but put all your OS on different drives with something like this

    0_1492526033095_upload-b9af56c3-d776-415b-afd1-d6e5f0c6ab5c



  • Compatability:

    • Win7: I could play Hisoutensoku and Komajou Densetsu II
    • Win8: I could play both still, if the system managed to handle their tiny resolutions properly
    • Win8.1: I could only run Hisoutensoku, and it had a giant window border when fullscreem
    • Win10: About the same
    • 10CU: Both work flawlessly

    I have no idea why it all varied so much, but I'm glad they're back to being stable.



  • @Magus said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    but I'm glad they're back to being stable.

    But now that Windows is on a "rapid release" model I won't expect it to last much :P

    Protip: if you switch to Current Branch for Business and set the feature update delay to 365 days, you'll be able to use this version for another 16~18 months after the next one is out.



  • @anonymous234 I would actually say they've been improving since 8 in general. That's when they started redesigning things, and it's mostly just moved forward from there.



  • @LB_ Well, what I could think of for that is a bare-metal hypervisor as that could abstract away all hardware. Running that would mean that every OS installed on the computer would run in a VM, though. Other than that. Hm. Write a boot manager that enables different sets of PCI devices depending on the OS booted? Dunno if that's feasible, though.

    Although that's not an option for my current PC anyway, it's old enough that it uses BIOS. Also, I would not mind running Windows in a VM. The main issue is the beefier hardware required, but the hardware I have atm is beefy enough to test it out so I can decide for my next computer if to keep dual-booting or have Windows in a VM.


  • :belt_onion:

    @TimeBandit said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    @LB_ said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    is there maybe some kind of low-level software that just abstracts the boot drive from Windows so it can't see (and screw with) partitions it didn't create?

    Not software, but put all your OS on different drives with something like this

    0_1492526033095_upload-b9af56c3-d776-415b-afd1-d6e5f0c6ab5c

    I started using those a few years ago.

    However, Wondows 10 has (of course) introduced a new wrinkle.

    I have 4 hard drives in my computer and after I've used the Wondows 10 boot drive for a while, when I switch back to the Windows 7 drive, Windows 7 finds corruption on one (or more) of the other drives ~90% of the time. Usually fixed with chkdsk, but I have lost a couple of files (hooray for being excessively anal about backups)

    I've experience this with every release of Wondows 10 going back to the original 2015 version.



  • @El_Heffe said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    However, Wondows 10 has (of course) introduced a new wrinkle.

    0_1492538315067_upload-8bd6824c-b1cc-4aef-bd56-2bc3fd745479


  • :belt_onion:

    @TimeBandit said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    @El_Heffe said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    However, Wondows 10 has (of course) introduced a new wrinkle.

    0_1492538315067_upload-8bd6824c-b1cc-4aef-bd56-2bc3fd745479

    For many years, I was always a bleeding edge guy. Wondows 10 cured me of that.



  • @El_Heffe Probably because since Windows 8, "fast boot" means the kernel merely hibernates when you shut down your computer, so the disk is left in a "dirty" state.



  • And that is why it's a good idea to disable fast boot, which I do along with disabling hibernation. When booting from an SSD it doesn't really boot much faster anyway (3s on my computer).



  • @Atazhaia Microsoft spent soooooo much time trying to get users to sleep or hibernate their computers (as would be logical) instead of shutting them down, but the users were having none of that. So they had to outsmart them for their own good.

    ACPI being so shit didn't help though.



  • @anonymous234 The problem is that fast boot gives few of the benefits of full hibernation. It gives faster boot time, which can be nullified by having Windows on an SSD. But it doesn't save program state and it places the disks in a dirty state where any other OS trying to access them is going to have issues. So why have that feature enabled?


  • sockdevs

    @Atazhaia said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    So why have that feature enabled?

    Because the vast majority of Windows installations are single-boot, and when WIndows 8 was released, SSDs were still hideously expensive.



  • @RaceProUK I suppose. But thinking a bit more I think Windows could be smarter about it and disable fast boot if it's installed on an SSD, because I only saw a benefit when running Windows on a mechanical drive.



  • @Atazhaia said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    But thinking a bit more I think Windows could be smarter about it and disable fast boot if it's installed on an SSD, because I only saw a benefit when running Windows on a mechanical drive.

    Why should it disable itself just because you didn't see a benefit? If the rest of the computer is old enough, there's probably still a benefit and even if there isn't it's not slowing things down.
    And if it did, people would be on here bitching it did exactly that.

    There's an option. Don't want fast boot? Use the option. Do want it? Use the option. Don't care? Ignore the option. Everyone is happy(ish).


  • area_can

    @Onyx said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    all Linux partitions (it was dual-booted) are unallocated space.

    Wait, so the Linux partitions got wiped? I guess I'll look into disabling updates on my windows installation... Good thing I only boot into it once a month at most.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @bb36e said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    @Onyx said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    all Linux partitions (it was dual-booted) are unallocated space.

    Wait, so the Linux partitions got wiped? I guess I'll look into disabling updates on my windows installation... Good thing I only boot into it once a month at most.

    Note that I found same claims about the Anniversary update, and I had no problems with that one personally. It might be an intermittent problem, but taking precautions seems to be prudent indeed.


    Filed under: BOMM



  • @bb36e said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    Wait, so the Linux partitions got wiped?

    More likely, under certain circumstances it clobbers the partition table.

    Of course, I wouldn't expect it to make partitions vanish on an upgrade, but I have low opinion of an upgrade process whose first sign of having occurred is the full-screen message "Don't worry, all your files are where you left them".



  • @loopback0 said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    If the rest of the computer is old enough, there's probably still a benefit and even if there isn't it's not slowing things down.

    I'd say that if the rest of the computer is old enough to slow things down it shouldn't be running Windows 10 in the first place, because I'm unsure if it'd be comfortable to use.

    Actually, what would be the minimum system requirements for comfortable everyday usage? Because I'm pretty sure it isn't the minimum requirements listed by Microsoft based off previous experiences with computers on the low end of system requirements.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Onyx Luckily I did not experience what you did with this update. That would have annoyed me greatly. Except for the part where I could ditch Mint on the desktop and reinstall with something else.



  • @Onyx said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    I am scared of doing this at home now though, since I have loads of data on my /home partition there.

    Backup, update Windows, restore Linux partitions from backup?

    @PleegWat said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    More likely, under certain circumstances it clobbers the partition table.

    Had this going from 7 to 10 on our dual-boot box; it had done some funny stuff to the partition table and I had to google up the magic grub commands to fix it (I'm not familiar with low-level admin on Linux), but the data was still there. IIRC some of the key partitions had been renumbered.

    @Atazhaia said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    And that is why it's a good idea to disable fast boot, which I do along with disabling hibernation.

    :thumbsup: I think I should probably disable hibernation altogether on my office computer. I have this occasional issue where after waking up from hybrid sleep hibernation, the keyboard doesn't work. It doesn't happen very often but it's a pain when it does. (Amusingly, I'm often using the computer for an hour or two before I notice, because I'm playing games that mainly use the mouse, or web browsing - then I go to type something in chat or whatever, and realise the keyboard is dead.)



  • @Scarlet_Manuka I get that. It's so annoying. It goes through periods for me. I'll have days where the keyboard wakes with the computer, then days where it's "groggy". Luckily it's only a few minutes for me, not hours. Also it seems to buffer keys pressed for when it wakes up, so I can hit the mute button couple times and look for the volume indicator.

    No, rebooting doesn't help. In fact after the last round of updates I almost plugged in an external keyboard so I could log in (didn't realize how to access touchscreen keyboard on login).



  • @loopback0 said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    Why should it disable itself just because you didn't see a benefit?

    Because they should be embarrassed about shipping that bug of a feature like any self respecting software developer would.



  • @Atazhaia Fast boot on an SSD takes about a second or two off the boot time on my machine.



  • @coderpatsy said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    No, rebooting doesn't help.

    That's different from mine then. Rebooting is how I solve it :)





  • @coderpatsy That sounds like a hardware problem tbh.



  • @lucas1 Yeah I figured, but it's only annoying for a few minutes.



  • @coderpatsy It might be worth playing with the suspend options in the bios (if they are any).



  • @lucas1 I counted about 3 seconds on mine. Considering the issues with it I find it not worth it. Also, disabling hibernation altogether frees up 18GB on my Windows drive, which is another benefit.



  • @Luhmann said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    So ... the Wondowers 10 Criters Plopdate breaks applications that are using VMWare ThinApp ... Fuck Yeah!

    So this will break 100% off our own fat client apps ... and yet ...

    0_1492683400709_upload-9733676c-429e-492f-9342-cc81bf638390

    So I turn around to the ops team ... to be greeted by a bunch of people getting into a frenzy and someone asking the million dollar question "who pushed the button?"

    :laughing:



  • Micro-Soft : our users are beta-testers


  • sockdevs

    As we previously announced, the first phase of the rollout targets newer devices.

    Including my PC that's a number of years old that I forget exactly, but is definitely more than 3.



  • @RaceProUK interestingly, my mom's ancient tower was delayed for the Anniversary update but not for the Creator's update. Can confirm they didn't limit the release to modern hardware.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Atazhaia said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    @loopback0 said in Wondows 10 Craters' Pupdate:

    If the rest of the computer is old enough, there's probably still a benefit and even if there isn't it's not slowing things down.

    I'd say that if the rest of the computer is old enough to slow things down it shouldn't be running Windows 10 in the first place, because I'm unsure if it'd be comfortable to use.

    Actually, what would be the minimum system requirements for comfortable everyday usage? Because I'm pretty sure it isn't the minimum requirements listed by Microsoft based off previous experiences with computers on the low end of system requirements.

    I've found 10 to be about equal to 8, and slightly lower than 7, actually.

    Although hardware configuration matters a lot, and older hardware configs will have serious driver and performance problems. Also some configurations will be significantly better on 7 than 10.


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