:pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    So I left a comment on this video:

    Cube Projectors: New & Vintage Featuring Tomtop Pico DLP** – 29:59
    — databits

    Comment stream

    It started off like this:

    tsaukpaetra : 640x360? And they have the balls to say it supports 1080p video? What a ripoff!

    Fair enough. But then :pendant:JW comes along:

    :pendant: : I have a pico projector and the quality is very watchable on a screen size 50-60" I use it in my bedroom, and watch TV off my kodi box on the ceiling and the picture is very watchable.

    tsaukpaetra : which is all fine and dandy. But it doesn't fix the fact that it's incredibly misleading. It's the equivalent of going to the movies and having a pirated CAM rip shown instead.

    :pendant: : Technically it does support 1080P video.
    Like all digital displays, they accept all resolutions input, and scale it to the panel, or DLP native resolution. If they didn't scale it would cause headaches for say set top boxes that only output 1 resolution.
    Now the reason the projector is 640x360 and not say 1280x720 which is the next resolution up is simple. This uses a DLP light engine, which uses micro mirrors that switch the light from the light source on and off digitally. They can only make these mirrors so small. Other technologies like LCPS can make smaller pixels, however LCOS has shortcomings. With LCOS there are 2 polarizing filters required to polarize the light going into, and out of the LCOS chip. This reduces the light level. When you are dealing with an LED light source there isn't much available to begin with. DLP is almost 100% efficient. So when you are only dealing with a few lumens to begin with a DLP pico projector will get more of that light onto the screen. Believe me streen brightness go allot further than screen resolution. What good is the extra detail if there isn't enough brightness to see it.

    tsaukpaetra : I dare you to set your computer resolution to 640x480 and tell me you're satisfied with the result.
    My point isn't that the technology limits the lumen effectiveness, it was that it's misleading to say it supports higher resolution when it doesn't actually display it.

    :pendant: : Again I clarify. Support does not mean native resolution. I have 2 plasma displays from the 2004. They "support" up to 1080p resolution over the HDMI input, but they are 852x480p display panels.
    Always look at the native resolution. My computer display supports only specific resolutions. It will not accept anything other than that, and I have to set my video card to match the display, or I get nothing. Most modern displays, and this projector is an example will accept the incoming signal from 360p to 1080p, and display it at the native resolution.
    Another example is say language. If you speak english, and the person you are speaking to only speaks chinese, you won't be able to communicate. But if you understand chinese, they you can communicate, even though it is not your native tongue.
    Supports 1080 does not mean it is a 1080 display or projector.
    You bring up an important debate with 4K. Many of the 4K displays on the market today are NOT full 4K displays. Some are, but I have seen several brands that will accept the 4K signal from a 4K STB but there is no way in hell they are 4K. I have a 4K display and I can't even see the pixels without a big magnifying glass, yet on many of these cheap 4K LCD panels I can clearly see the red green and blue pixels, and they look about the same size as the 1080 panels that we were used to. So what are they doing? Scaling the 4K picture down to the native panel resolution.
    I have a friend that had a full 1080 plasma panel. He decided to buy another one, and it was a 1080p panel too. He called me up and asked why it wasn't as sharp. I went over and looked at it. Same thing, the full 1080 panel had 1920 red 1029 green and 1920 blue sub pixels on each row, and 1080 lines.
    The new cheaper panel had 1920 total pixels x 1080. That is 640 red + 640 Green + 640 blue sub pixels and 1080 lines.
    Technically it was still a 1080p panel as it had 1080 lines, and the vertical resolution was 1920, but a full HD panel has 3x as many vertical subpixels.

    On my channel I have serviced both types. Take a look, I did 2 50" panasonic plasma sets. One was a full 1080 and the other a 1080 lite as I call them.
    The "lite" set only has an address driver board along the bottom of the panel, and the full 1080 has address driver boards on both the top and bottom of the panel. The full HD set also draws 705 watts maximum, and the 1080 "lite" draws only 300 max.
    One thing about these pico projectors. If you are looking at standard definition streams, which most of the stuff on Kodi is they look fine as the stream isn't that high quality anyway, and most people are not blowing the screen up that big. If you need the screen bigger than 50" then get a real projector, a 720 or 1080. You will need the brightness of the lamp to blow it up that big anyway.

    tsaukpaetra : In other words: long story short, marketing lies, expect that "supported" means Jack shit in terms of usable pixels.
    Good to know.

    :pendant: You got it. Native resolution is the actual number of pixels.
    Supported resolution only means that you can stick in that signal, and it will display it AT THE NATIVE RESOLUTION.
    It's not a lie and it is a a GOOD thing. With the exception of PCs how many devices can you change the output on? Many display at only a few resolution's. Samsung had a major fuckup on many of t heir early TVs.
    I have such a TV and it is a pain in the ass. It is one of their early DLP projection sets. It is a 1080 set.
    AV inputs are 480i
    Component 1 is 480i / 480p ONLY
    Component 2 and 3 are 720P and 1080i only.
    The HDMI is 720P and 1080P only.
    OK here is the problem. Many cable boxes and bluray players default to 480i or 480p initially until you change them. Plug it into the HDMI, black screen. Plug it into component 2 or 3, black screen. Have to plug it into AV or Component 1 to get a display, and then change it. Problem is as soon as you change it = black screen, so they you have to change inputs on the TV fast, and hope you are fast enough to catch the message to test the new resolution before the device times out and reverts back to the original.
    Thankfully Samsung got their act together and started accepting all resolutions on the component and HDMI inputs, but there was a few years that was a problem, and I still see this problem at my day job as an IPTV tech.

    You don't like this device, fine don't buy it, but don't shit all over it, because to the type of person that buys one of these things they typically know the limitation, and don't mind the lower resolution picture. They are buying it for a specific reason, like silent operation, and don't need a huge screen. I use one in my bedroom because I don't want a large TV. It sits on my night table, and projects onto the ceiling, about a 50" screen. Can I see the screen door effect from the 640x360 resolution. Sure. It isn't as sharp as a TV would be, but in a dark room it is perfect. It allows me to watch TV in bed without lighting up the entire room and keeping my wife awake, and once you try watching TV on the ceiling it is actually pretty cool. No more stiff neck from an awkward angle to see the TV. Its actually about as good as it gets for watching TV in bed, and it is wife approved when the wife does not want a TV in the bedroom.
    I have a wireless cable box. I just plug it in, and I am good to go.

    tsaukpaetra : That's the problem though, people who would buy this probably DON'T know the limitation and will buy it based on the 1080p label, expecting an HD experience. Most consumers aren't going to tab into the specifications sheet to find out if it's actually that resolution of not.

    :pendant: : You would be surprised on how many would look at the specs.
    And for the record I was given an LCD projector that claimed it was 1080p resolution, and what was inside the unit? A 150 watt SQI metal halide lamp, and a 7" LCD panel that the bright lamp was shone through, and then a big lens to focus it on the screen. The resulting image was absolutely horrible, much poorer then t he "360p" resolution on the pico projector. The colors were not even close and there was no contract, but hey the panel technically was a 1080 panel.
    To most people buying this, especially considering the price are not expecting much, and when it looks much better than anticipated they are happy. I bought mine to do a review on, and was fully expecting to return it, but it performed so good, much better than I expected, so I kept it and use it almost every night.

    tsaukpaetra : Well, at the very least, you are a satisfied customer.
    And this will be my last comment in this thread, but you'd be surprised how many people buy the $16 200 Gb "sandisk" microsd cards. So, surprised? Yeah, someone will be.

    :pendant: : Lets just say we agree to disagree, but in fact you are don't have the balls to admit when you are wrong. Supporting 1080 doesn't make it 1080, and nowhere does the specifications claim that it projects a 1080 picture. The one featured in this video doesn't even have an input (mine has an HDMI input) but is simply a media player that supports .mp4 files UP TO 1080P. Simple as that. Supporting 1080 is important, because if it didn't, then media files would have to be resized, and saved as a new file and nobody wants to do that.

    As to the sandisk 200 gig cards for 16.00 those are counterfeit. Big difference. Counterfeit media goes back to the 80's when video tapes cost 50.00 for a 2 hour tape, and the counterfeiters would make garbage tape (using exact copies of the company logo's right down to the finest details. It was quite difficult to tell the real tape from the fakes.) and sell it for 10.00 people would buy them, and end up with their VCR in the shop for repair very quickly. I loved counterfeit video tape as I made a killing running a VCR repair shop, and would see the same customer every few weeks for a head cleaning.
    Nowhere is someone trying to "rip off" anyone here with these pico projectors. They are a legitimate product, and are not trying to deceive anyone and lie about the capability. Everything they claim is TRUE.
    They are not responsible for people too stupid to understand the difference between 1080 comparable and 360p native resolution.
    All one has to do is google it before buying if unsure.

    tsaukpaetra : Neither of us is wrong. From their product page itself: for a 1080P video-allowing you to watch your favorite movies in high definition they claim it's high definition. This is technically wrong, regardless of "supported downscaling" or not. You don't knock off a 480p video and call it 1080p HD, bar none.
    Yes, the actual resolutions are provided, but you can't expect people to actually read it, even if they should. They'll read the product line and expect 1080p, whether that's technically correct or not.

    My point is that it's misleading, and if you're ok with that, fine, but arguing pedantics seems to be your schtick so I'll leave you to it. Good Day then.


    Discus!



  • @Tsaukpaetra total scam, the product listing's title

    Ultramini DLP Projector Portable 1080P HD Beamer Throw 70-inch Screen 64G TF Card Support 1000mAh Rechargeable 3.5mm Audio port for Home Outdoor Use

    Says nothing about the 640x360 native resolution, and in fact clearly states that it beams 1080P HD video, which is false. Only once you get down into the description do you find such laughable claims as,

    640 * 360 max resolution and 800:1 Contrast Ratio, offering you a high definition Video Picture and Photos

    ...um yes, that's "high definition". In the 1990s, maybe.



  • @anotherusername said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    @Tsaukpaetra total scam, the product description

    Ultramini DLP Projector Portable 1080P HD Beamer Throw 70-inch Screen 64G TF Card Support 1000mAh Rechargeable 3.5mm Audio port for Home Outdoor Use

    Says nothing about the 640x360 native resolution, and in fact clearly states that it beams 1080P HD video, which is false. Only once you get down into the description do you find such laughable claims as,

    640 * 360 max resolution and 800:1 Contrast Ratio, offering you a high definition Video Picture and Photos

    ...um yes, that's "high definition". In the 1990s, maybe.

    Maybe 1080P means something different than 1080p?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @ben_lubar said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    Maybe 1080P means something different than 1080p?

    His whole argument was that is says "Supported" and that that should be enough for the user to know it's not necessarily actually true.



  • @ben_lubar said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    @anotherusername said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    @Tsaukpaetra total scam, the product description

    Ultramini DLP Projector Portable 1080P HD Beamer Throw 70-inch Screen 64G TF Card Support 1000mAh Rechargeable 3.5mm Audio port for Home Outdoor Use

    Says nothing about the 640x360 native resolution, and in fact clearly states that it beams 1080P HD video, which is false. Only once you get down into the description do you find such laughable claims as,

    640 * 360 max resolution and 800:1 Contrast Ratio, offering you a high definition Video Picture and Photos

    ...um yes, that's "high definition". In the 1990s, maybe.

    Maybe 1080P means something different than 1080p?

    Keep your Calories to yourself.



  • @Tsaukpaetra said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    @ben_lubar said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    Maybe 1080P means something different than 1080p?

    His whole argument was that is says "Supported" and that that should be enough for the user to know it's not necessarily actually true.

    My question is whether "1080P Supported" means something different from "it supports 1080p".



  • @Tsaukpaetra I could see that argument, but not when the product title clearly says that it's a 1080P HD projector...


  • area_pol

    @Tsaukpaetra said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    "supported" means Jack shit

    Oh, another situation where the word support is used to obfuscate useful information.
    If we used real words, we could easily describe that the projector displays video in 640x480 but accepts input signal of 1080p resolution.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @anotherusername said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    offering you a high definition Video Picture and Photos

    a high definition, not High Definition. One is describing something in a relative way, the other is an official term for a specific set of resolutions.

    Also, :pendant: is a dick and stuck on their very technical reading.



  • @Tsaukpaetra It's not :pendant: if they are straight out lying to you. It's fraud.



  • @Adynathos said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    "supported" means Jack shit

    Oh, another situation where the word support is used to obfuscate useful information.
    If we used real words, we could easily describe that the projector displays video in 640x480 but accepts input signal of 1080p resolution.

    No, don't accept this bullshit. Nobody cares that it "accepts 1080p input", it's a plain scam.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @fbmac My DVD player accepts blu ray input. See, the disc fits the tray perfectly


  • sockdevs

    Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?

    No.

    Next!



  • @Tsaukpaetra EssayWarningNotFoundException


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @loopback0 said in :pendant: Is "1080p supported" the same thing as 640x360?:

    @Tsaukpaetra EssayWarningNotFoundException

    SorryNotSorryResult

    They weren't my essays, I could probably wrap them in details tags but that would make reading even more obnoxious. Now that you're past post 1 it should be fine.


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