Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia


  • sockdevs

    Coptastrophe Mafia

    THE RULES

    1. If by some miracle you’re able to post in this thread and aren’t a living player, do not post and report the situation to me. If you want to comment on the ongoing game or berate a player for being an idiot, PM me to apply to the official peanut gallery.
    2. Important: do not report posts in any faction/private thread. There are moderators playing, and reporting a post makes it visible to them regardless of permissions. Summon one of the site administrators instead.
    3. When in doubt, ask questions via your role card chat. I may or may not answer depending on the nature of the question, but you can be sure all communication via chat will be kept private.
    4. Each player should have obtained a role card via chat. The role card contains:
      • Your flavor role, or “position”. This information has no gameplay value, and you can share it freely for roleplay purposes.
      • Your factional allegiance. You’re probably better off not sharing that.
    5. You are not allowed to quote your Role PM directly, or any other private communication with me for that matter. You can paraphrase it, you can make things up about your role, you can invent a role, but you can’t post a quote from your role card. There will be a publicly visible example of every role card active in this game (Excluding the flavour only portion).
      • Flavor role part is excluded from this rule.
    6. You’re heavily encouraged to save your Role PM outside of the chat. NodeBB’s private messaging system is… not suited for long-time storage.
    7. This is an Open Setup Game. All roles active in the game are shown below, there are no other roles in play.
    8. This is a non-bastard game. A full role PM will be revealed upon death unless otherwise specified, and the GM will not lie to you, deceive you, give you up, let you down, run around and desert you.
    9. This is a flavour game. There’s no guarantee that commonly-known Mafia terminology will be used.
      • Where any flavour is used that corresponds to commonly known Mafia terminology it will be acompanied with a link to the relevant page on the mafia scum wiki
    10. You can quit the game at any time, either by PM or by public announcement. Abuse of this mechanism to gain advantage will have severe consequences.
    11. Do not edit, bookmark or like posts. You shouldn’t be able to, but if you manage to find a clever way to do it anyway, Club Ded will not be amused.
    12. Do not contact other players or Club Ded members outside of threads marked for this purpose, and do not discuss the game anywhere but in those threads. The Big Brother watches you.
    13. Do not encrypt, obfuscate or alter your posts, or use content which can be altered (outside-hosted images, oneboxes, etc.). Report (via your role card chat) all posts which infringe this rule.
    14. Do not post during the time between end of day lynch and receiving the lynch results. This rule applies to all threads, not just the main thread.
    15. You have to post in the main thread once every 24 hours. And no, if for some reason I don’t do an attendance count on a given day, you’re not off the hook. Don’t gamble with the GM.

    GamePlay Rules

    1. Mafia do have daytalk in this game, Use it wisely.
    2. Players do have nighttalk in this game.
    3. You may choose your target for your night action during the day phase if you wish. Doing so will register your intent to use your action against that target the next night.
    4. You may change your mind on who you want to target as often as you wish
      • The GM reserves the right to get annoyed and issue punishment if you change your mind too often. ;-)

    MYLO vs. LYLO

    In this game MYLO and LYLO will be calculated assuming that the faction kill is unopposed (that is, it will assume that no night role interferes with the kill attempt)

    LYLO will be declared when # of scum is one less than the # of townies meaning that a mislynch will end the game without a night phase

    MYLO will be declared when the # of scum is two less than the # of townies meaning that a mislynch will move the game into LYLO and the night phase will be assumed to result in a townie death and end of game


  • sockdevs

    Example Role Cards:

    Role Cop (x5)

    Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Cop [Townie|Mafia].

    Abilities:

    Role Cop:

    • Once per night choose a target, you will attempt to determine the complete role card of your target. If you do not choose a target one will be chosen for you randomly from the current set of living players.
    • You may self-target.

    Modifier:

    You have a variation modifier. This modifier will be revealed in your flip or in investigation results.

    Win condition:

    You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

    Alignment Cop (x2)

    Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Psychiatrist [Townie|Mafia].

    Abilities:

    Alignment Cop:

    • Once per night choose a target, you will attempt to determine the alignment of your target. If you do not choose a target one will be chosen for you randomly from the current set of living players.
    • You may self-target.

    Modifier:

    You have a variation modifier. This modifier will be revealed in your flip or in investigation results.

    Win condition:

    You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.


  • sockdevs

    Modifiers and their interactions:

    • Sane Cop (x3)

      Actual ModifierReported Modifier
      SaneSane
      InsaneInsane
      ParanoidParanoid
      NaiveNaive
      Actual AlignmentReported Alignment
      TownieTownlie
      MafiaMafia
    • Insane Cop (x2)

      Actual ModifierReported Modifier
      SaneInsane
      InsaneParanoid
      ParanoidNaive
      NaiveInsane
      Actual AlignmentReported Alignment
      TownieMafia
      MafiaTownie
    • Paranoid Cop (x1)

      Actual ModifierReported Modifier
      SaneInsane
      InsaneInsane
      ParanoidInsane
      NaiveInsane
      Actual AlignmentReported Alignment
      TownieMafia
      MafiaMafia
    • Naive Cop (x1)

      Actual ModifierReported Modifier
      SaneSane
      InsaneSane
      ParanoidSane
      NaiveSane
      Actual AlignmentReported Alignment
      TownieTownlie
      MafiaTownie

  • sockdevs

    This is NOT a bot assist game.

    Votes will use the standard vote syntax of:

    @accalia vote for @target

    or

    @accalia unvote

    votes that do NOT mention @accalia will be considered invalid and will be rendered void.


  • sockdevs

    updates

    • Townies were eroneously denied night talk. this has been corrected
    • Alignment results have been added to the modifier tables
    • Alignment cops also have modifiers. this has been added to the role cards.

  • sockdevs

    The Spellars town has long been a hot house of mafia activity.... the citizens are getting concerned, so the police force steps up.

    a task force has been constructed, five cops, two psychiatrists and a respected psychologist are assembled and given the task of routing the mafia from the Spellars town once and for all.

    Things go well for a while, many mafioso are found and incarcerated. They're closing on the head boss, when the worst happens.

    One morning the task force assembles, finding @accalia, their respected psycologist and a bit of a klutz, face down on the floor of the meeting room. It doesn't take long to determine that she is also lying in a pool of her own blood. @accalia has been murdered! And the culprit has to be someone in this room, as they are the only ones with access to this meeting room.

    Welcome, accalia, you are a Psychologist Townie.

    ABILITIES:

    Psycologist:

    Once per night choose a target, you will attempt to talk to your target about their mother. If you do not choose a target one will be chosen for you randomly from the current set of living players.
    You may self-target.

    Modifier:

    You are Inspector Clouseau.

    WIN CONDITION:

    You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.


    The game has begun!

    Day one ends 2017-03-07 at 0900 GMT-5

    Good luck to all players!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Goddammit @accalia, now we have to try to work out who killed you and risk getting offed ourselves!

    This is my last case, I'm one week from retirement. Oh well, hopefully I'll be able to go out in a blaze of glory getting rid of the last few Mafia in this dirty town.


  • sockdevs

    @RaceProUK surveys the room with an analytical eye, taking in all the details. Unfortunately, there's not a lot to work with.

    "They're running scared: it's the only explanation that makes sense," she concludes stoically.



  • Created gasps upon seeing @accalia's body

    "Could this be - one of us? We must put up a barricade posthaste! Let no enter or leave until we find the culprit!"


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    "So, we need some alibis. Where was everybody last night?"



  • Created proudly puffs his chest

    "I was protecting the market district - I put up such an enormous blockade that all mafia activity there stopped in its tracks!"



  • "Well, now. Someone really has some deep-seated issues to be willing to turn to murder to avoid talking about them. All I know is that I went to a different Academy than the rest of you, so forgive me if I'm suspicious of the rest of you. I'd expect the same from you towards me as well.

    "I'm not good at putting names with faces, so I don't remember which of you are on which task force.

    "As for my alibi, I was reading up on the latest investigative techniques last night. There's a lot of interesting notes in there about the cross-connections between how the jobs people choose affect their decisions to stay on one side of the law or the other and how their choice whether to step across the line of legality affects which jobs are available or at least most desirable to them."


  • sockdevs

    "I was at home, maintaining my motorbike."



  • @djls45 said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    Someone really has some deep-seated issues to be willing to turn to murder to avoid talking about them.

    Zey probably have a subconscious attraction to their own mother.

    And daddy issues. Why else would they become mafia, if not to prove something to zeir fader?

    I don't have an alibi. I was in my office reading some Freud last night. I didn't see anything unusual.



  • Created raises an eyebrow at dangeRuss

    "So you're a psychiatrist? Is your plan to determine which one of us is a treacherous mafioso? Or to be the first to die when the lights go out?!"



  • @CreatedToDislikeThis said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    Created raises an eyebrow at dangeRuss

    "So you're a psychiatrist? Is your plan to determine which one of us is a treacherous mafioso? Or to be the first to die when the lights go out?!"

    Is that a thinly veiled threat? I think you're just afraid that you might be the one to be taken out first when the lights go out. You seem to be afraid of the dark. And how does that make you feel?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    You're asking for an alibi? Damn kids, think they run the joint. I've been in this job for 40 years, and I've put away more perps than you've had hot dinners. Alibi! Get back to the academy you punk



  • @Jaloopa said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    You're asking for an alibi? Damn kids, think they run the joint. I've been in this job for 40 years, and I've put away more perps than you've had hot dinners. Alibi! Get back to the academy you punk

    Well look at that clever grandpa. Shouldn't you be in the heavily guarded room where they put cops a day before retirement?

    I was looking through the case files, trying to find some link between the latest crimes. Of course that's a moot point now - if any one of you collaborates with the Mafia, the files are all but worthless.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @Jaloopa Oh, so you're one of those that came from the era when the biggest "perps" were Johnny who robbed the cornershop and had to spend the night in the holding cells. Good to know...


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Maciejasjmj your signature really doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to help find the killers



  • @Jaloopa said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    @Maciejasjmj your signature really doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to help find the killers

    Don't let your hatred towards signatures cloud your mind.



  • Created takes out a pen and signs his signature all by himself

    "Quite so, quite so. Anyway!"

    " @Jaloopa - the young are destined to cannibalize the old and the old - the young, but an alibi is eternal - do you have any?"

    " @Vault_Dweller - do you have an alibi yourself?"


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @CreatedToDislikeThis I was asleep in my bed, where any sensible person should have been. I'm too old for this "staying up all night, following up leads" crap. Leave that to the rookies



  • I think in regards to the fact that we're all trained in investigative techniques, we shouldn't bandy about accusations without specific data. Hence, I propose that we formulate a plan for investigations so that we can make the best use of our resources, or at least try to.

    If we agree to all check on the same target, we'll better figure out whose skills are still too green, have become outdated, have become too hardbitten, etc. than if we risk eliminating one of our own.

    If the criminals decide to try to kill the same person whom we all target, or if we decide to "force an early retirement" onto that person, we'll even more easily figure out how to handle each person's reports.

    Unless someone else really wants it, I'll volunteer as first target. If I die, then the rest of you can make use of what you find in my desk. If I survive, I will continue to make what use I can of my skills to find the despicable villains who think they can take over our police department.

    @accalia vote no-lynch


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @CreatedToDislikeThis said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    " @Vault_Dweller - do you have an alibi yourself?"

    "Yes. I was watching reruns of CSI last night. It's good training material, I would recommend it."


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @djls45 "Your strategy does have its flaws, but I don't really have a better alternative so I can go with it"

    @accalia vote for no-lynch


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I was planning on investigating myself. This close to retirement, I don't necessarily know if I'm still as sharp as I used to be, but if I bring up a weird result on myself I can work with that knowledge.

    First rule of detectoring, rookies, verify your source before you trust it



  • Created shakes his head

    " @djls45 - in plain english, please? Are you trying to propose that everyone investigates a single target (you) at night? That would certainly be a waste of a night! Are you trying to propose that we all string you up? That would be suspicious behaviour at best. Something else? Be clear, then!"

    " I think a better night-plan is either - everyone investigates who they want to - or we decide on some plan (who investigates who), with psychiatrists free to silently ignore the plan."

    " There's wisdom in both getting an investigative result for everyone AND getting two investigative results for a specific person, so making a plan is by no means a trivial matter..."

    " However, I think we should think also carefully about how to order our results in the next day - it'd be best if we force the most suspicious among us to go first instead of all just spewing our results and letting our enemies then manipulate those with their own..."

    " @Jaloopa - I'm not sure that's a good idea, instead of investigating someone else and being able to help us map ourselves out and perhaps even corroborate an accusation (with someone else likely investigating you and corroborating you) - you'll be checking only yourself, generating no interesting info. If everyone does this, we'll definitely have no information about the veracity of any psychiatrist evaluation."

    " By the way, with our numbers - we're two votes away from an early no-lynch! Let's think carefully. I do see the wisdom of a no-lynch in our particular situation, but an early one is never a good idea - we'd want to form better opinions on each other first (as well as form better strategies)."



  • @Jaloopa - in particular, I'd recommend only checking yourself on the second night, and that's only if you feel the need to after the events of the first night.


  • sockdevs

    @Vault_Dweller said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    @accalia vote for no-lynch

    vote confirmed.


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    @accalia vote no-lynch

    vote confirmed.

    current votes:

    no-lunch: @Vault_Dweller, @djls45

    there are seven players, votes required: 4



  • @CreatedToDislikeThis said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    " @Jaloopa - I'm not sure that's a good idea, instead of investigating someone else and being able to help us map ourselves out and perhaps even corroborate an accusation (with someone else likely investigating you and corroborating you) - you'll be checking only yourself, generating no interesting info. If everyone does this, we'll definitely have no information about the veracity of any psychiatrist evaluation."

    But investigating yourself (if you're a role cop) gives you a good certainity as to your own alignment. Insane and paranoid cops will know for sure who they are (getting a "paranoid" and "naive" result respectively) and a "sane" result gives you 75% odds that you are actually sane (and rules out "insane" and "paranoid").

    With someone else investigating you, you need to account for their sanity, your sanity, and the possibility that they might be scum and lying to throw you off. That's a lot of unknowns.

    Hence the idea to investigate ourselves and investigate psychiatrists isn't too bad - question is, in what order. If we investigate the psychiatrists too early, we set them up to be picked out by the scum before we can figure out our own sanities. If we examine them too late, we might not have enough time to get a solid result.



  • @accalia said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    no-lunch

    Dammit, stop voting for that, I'm getting hungry.



  • @Maciejasjmj - once you investigate yourself, you can very easily lie about your results if you need to - lying about others is trickier, especially if we establish a good reveal-order.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    Some comments to consider before deciding on a strategy:

    • A single person investigating a single target will not provide anything conclusive, only eliminate possibilities. That is also a night wasted. No result means anything if you can't trust it (or deduce what it implies) 100%

    • Having everyone share their results publicly no matter what will out the psychiatrists on Day 2. The merits of this will depend on whether we decide to hide their identities or not.



  • Analyzing the "simple" possibilities:

    a) If each member investigates themselves and the psychos investigate a suspect, we will not only not know the psychos' alignment, but even the psychos' sanity situation. All we'd have learned is what some people say about their own sanity situation, and they can very easily lie here.

    b) If each member investigates another (either by plan or by suspicion) and the psychos investigate a suspect, we'll get a chain of constraints, but it's not clear if we'll get anything concrete out of those aside from a mathy headache.

    Due to this, I have though a bit and I propose the following plan:

    1. We order ourselves from most to least suspicious (I realize this isn't going to be very accurate on the first day, but it's better than nothing).
    2. The 3 most suspicious will investigate the 3 least suspicious, in a configuration we'll decide on beforehand. (Trying our best not to get scum to investigate scum)
    3. The 3 less suspicious will investigate themselves.
    4. If the least suspicious person is left over (e.g. if we don't lynch anyone, so we still have 7), they'll investigate whoever they wants. (Can't really pair them)
    5. Psychos are still encouraged to silently investigate whoever they want (see below about revealing psychos)
    6. Day 2 start
    7. The 3 most suspicious will reveal their results.
    8. The 3 less suspicious will reveal their results but only AFTER the person who was supposed to investigate them reveals their results - ensuring the more suspicious are at a weaker position (I could elaborate if needed)
    9. The leftover person (if any) should probably reveal their results after most others
    10. The psychos will reveal their psycho-results instead of the expected cop results - we can't really avoid this on day (2) if we want to take full advantage of our information, but given how little time we have to deal with the traitors, it won't be as serious.

    The benefits here are that we have controlled information (traitors can't just lie about their comrades or themselves that easily - not if we ordered by suspicion well) and are as likely as possible to get double-checked information about people, increasing the chance we'll corner people with a lie or prevent them from making harmful ones.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @CreatedToDislikeThis the difficult part of that plan is working out who is suspicious. It's always tricky early on in an investigation where everybody is a suspect and there hasn't been time for the actual perp to slip up.

    Time is not on our side though, and I really want to get out of this damn room before my retirement party. And not in a box.

    So, where are we? Mostly, we've just been introducing ourselves and providing "alibis" that nobody else can corroborate. Apart from that, we have:

    • @djls45 proposing we all investigate the same person, nominating himself as that person. Has he decided this will exonerate him and leave us free to check out others? Or is it a bluff from a Mafia goon trying to make us trust him and decide we don't need to investigate him? Would a mass investigation just sow more confusion, given that there are bound to be different accounts?
    • @Vault_Dweller agreeing and moving straight to no lynch. He mentions flaws but doesn't expand on them.
    • Me suggesting a self-investigation. To be honest, I was playing a bit of a lone wolf game there, not thinking how it would fit in as a team strategy. There are definitely problems with everybody investigating themselves. I'd still like to know for sure if I've gone mad, but I'm willing to work with a different plan.
    • @CreatedToDislikeThis trying to get a handle on what everyone is thinking, and suggesting either a free-for-all or a more nuanced plan. Straight in with suggestions that reveal order matter. This is a good idea, but if the Mafia manage to get in a good position on the reveal order then they're poised to spread discord more easily.
    • @Maciejasjmj agreeing to the idea of self investigations
    • @Vault_Dweller pointing out that forcing everyone to reveal will out the psychiatrists
    • @CreatedToDislikeThis expounding on his more complicated plan.

    I don't really know who comes out as more trustworthy there. Leaning towards trusting @CreatedToDislikeThis, and slightly suspicious of @djls45 and @Vault_Dweller but it's more gut feeling than anything I can put my finger on


  • sockdevs

    "Everyone investigating themselves will tell us nothing useful, as there'll be no clear way to determine if people are lying or not. There's also no use in everyone investigating the same person, as that won't yield enough info to help root out the scum before they kill us all. So far, the best plan I've heard is from @CreatedToDislikeThis. Having said that, if the collective decision is self-investigation, then I will gladly comply."


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @CreatedToDislikeThis "I can go with this."



  • @RaceProUK said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    Everyone investigating themselves will tell us nothing useful, as there'll be no clear way to determine if people are lying or not.

    Not in general, but it does tell those people themselves what their sanity is. If I'm a role cop and I investigate myself, I know almost for certain whether I'm sane, insane etc. If I investigate someone else, I don't know either my or their alignment for sure.

    I kind of agree with @CreatedToDislikeThis plan, but it does hinge on us determining who is and isn't suspicious. That might not be easy, and a mistake here is going to throw us off a lot...


  • sockdevs

    Day One will end in just over 24 hours at 2017-03-07T09:00 GMT-5

    the current votes as recorded:

    No-Lunch: @djls45, @Vault_Dweller
    Not-Voting: @Maciejasjmj @Jaloopa @CreatedToDislikeThis @RaceProUK @dangeRuss

  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    If we're going to go with @CreatedToDislikeThis's plan, we need to get our suspicion meter sorted quite quickly.

    Also, once we've decided someone is the most suspicious, do we lynch them or wait for investigations? I'm normally against no lynches, but with the investigation abilities we have it seems more acceptable.


  • sockdevs

    @Jaloopa The choice of whether to lynch or not should be based on the strength of our convictions. If none feel there is sufficient reason for a lynch, then I see no reason to force one.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    If I had to list my suspects at the moment: most to least suspicious

    1. @djls45 (as mentioned above, gut instinct)
    2. @Vault_Dweller (ditto)
    3. @dangeRuss (quiet, seems to be coming out as a psychiatrist which is dangerous unless you know the Mafia won't be going for you)
    4. @RaceProUK (mainly seems to be reiterating others' points, no meaningful input)
    5. @Maciejasjmj (contributing, seems to be trying to cover pros and cons)
    6. @CreatedToDislikeThis (putting forward a plan that seems pretty good for catching scum. Looks like a good town tell to me)
    7. @Jaloopa (I know I'm not Mafia)


  • Now that I think about it, I think I like the self-investigation better than a single-target mass investigation. We can each try to figure out our own sanities that way, and then tomorrow we each report on what our own sanity is. We can leave off what our exact investigative specialty is. This way we might know whose results can be more reliable, and we can potentially narrow our suspect pool a little bit.

    I'm still going for a no-lynch for today. @CreatedToDislikeThis's mathy headache might be a necessary "evil". His quick dismissal of using one of our most reliable tools strikes me as kinda disingenuous.


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 The issue with self-investigation is you can only rule out one or two sanities if you're a cop. If you're a psychiatrist, you may be able to work out your modifier in one investigation, but only if you get a result that contradicts your alignment. And that isn't guaranteed for either psychiatrist.


  • sockdevs

    On the other hand, having a person being investigated by themselves and another player allows the two results to be compared in order to greatly reduce the number of possibilities, meaning the facts can be established quicker.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @RaceProUK said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    you can only rule out one or two sanities if you're a cop

    Sane -> sane
    Insane -> paranoid
    Paranoid -> insane
    Naive -> sane

    If you're insane or paranoid you can find out exactly what you are. If you're sane or naive you don't know which one, but there's a 3:1 chance you're sane, based on how many sane vs naive cops there are. You can also immediately deduce that you're sane if a second investigation brings up anything but sane.

    However, since we're unlikely to make it past a couple of days, self investigations (certainly en masse), are probably a big old waste of time. If we had more strength in numbers then we could afford to check ourselves out. Damn, I wish some of my old partners were still around


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @RaceProUK said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    On the other hand, having a person being investigated by themselves and another player allows the two results to be compared in order to greatly reduce the number of possibilities, meaning the facts can be established quicker.

    Could we agree to three sets of mutual investigations? This would have to expose the shrinks of course



  • @Jaloopa said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    @RaceProUK said in Mafia XVI - Coptastrophe Mafia:

    On the other hand, having a person being investigated by themselves and another player allows the two results to be compared in order to greatly reduce the number of possibilities, meaning the facts can be established quicker.

    Could we agree to three sets of mutual investigations? This would have to expose the shrinks of course

    Well, with only four days at the most, I think exposing the psychiatrists may be necessary. Even if they get picked off the first two nights after that, we will have been able to use their help to clear the innocent or condemn the guilty.

    Investigating one half of the group may be a good way to strike a balance between preserving secrecy of our best investigators and figuring out who is scum and who can produce reliable results.

    Is there any benefit to figuring out which roles/sanities correspond to which alignment? Or is that something we should figure out once we have some investigation results?


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