MS can English goodly


  • sockdevs

    0_1485052755184_upload-159ba56c-fabc-4ee8-afc1-f18d1f00ffb6


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    TRWTF: It can't tell how many.


  • BINNED

    @RaceProUK You know it is non-zero, and nothing imaginary either.



  • @dse said in MS can English goodly:

    @RaceProUK You know it is non-zero, and nothing imaginary either.

    Can't it still be technically be a complex number.



  • It ought to be
    "One or more files are in a long-running operation and cannot be edited or saved."
    because word 'files' is the subject of the sentence and 'one or more' is a pair of disjoined adjectives.

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    Filed under: English is hard.



  • @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    It ought to be
    "One or more files are in a long-running operation and cannot be edited or saved."
    because word 'files' is the subject of the sentence and 'one or more' is a pair of disjoined adjectives.

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    Filed under: English is hard.

    Is.



  • @dangeRuss said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    It ought to be
    "One or more files are in a long-running operation and cannot be edited or saved."
    because word 'files' is the subject of the sentence and 'one or more' is a pair of disjoined adjectives.

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    Filed under: English is hard.

    Is.

    Why?



  • @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    @dangeRuss said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    It ought to be
    "One or more files are in a long-running operation and cannot be edited or saved."
    because word 'files' is the subject of the sentence and 'one or more' is a pair of disjoined adjectives.

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    Filed under: English is hard.

    Is.

    Why?

    "Are" just sounds wrong in that sentence.

    I don't know shit about grammar rules, but I would guess that the "is" refers to the one car and how there are more cars there than the one car. Otherwise it would be cars. So car is, cars are. QED.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    There is more than one car in the parking lot

    :thumbsup:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    More than one car is in the parking lot

    :thumbsup:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    There are more than one car in the parking lot

    :thumbsdown: like saying "there are car".

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    More than one car are in the parking lot

    :thumbsdown: "car are."


  • area_can

    @xaade said in MS can English goodly:

    Can't it still be technically be a complex number.

    Real numbers are complex, but they don't have an imaginary component



  • @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    Filed under: English is hard.

    According to conventional grammar rules, the correct construction is the second one, using "are", because the simple subject is the word "more", which is only singular when it refers to something that is not discretely countable, but is always plural otherwise. "Than {x}" is a prepositional phrase and has no bearing on subject-verb agreement.

    According to common usage, the static construction "there is" has become typical, regardless of subject-verb agreement. Furthermore, "one {x}" in the construction "more than one {x}" is so close to the verb that our minds feel that the verb should be singular to match the only noun in the subject phrase, "{x}". However, also note that if we change "more" to an adjective and insert the seemingly missing subject, producing the phrase "more {x} than one {x}", then our minds recognize that the subject is actually plural and the verb should be plural to match it: "More cars than one car are in the parking lot".

    Formal English should always follow conventional grammar. Informal English may follow either common usage or conventional rules.


  • BINNED

    @dangeRuss said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    @dangeRuss said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    It ought to be
    "One or more files are in a long-running operation and cannot be edited or saved."
    because word 'files' is the subject of the sentence and 'one or more' is a pair of disjoined adjectives.

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    Filed under: English is hard.

    Is.

    Why?

    "Are" just sounds wrong in that sentence.

    I don't know shit about grammar rules, but I would guess that the "is" refers to the one car and how there are more cars there than the one car. Otherwise it would be cars. So car is, cars are. QED.

    Nope:

    In a sentence like one or more photos are better you use are because the noun closer to the verb is plural (more photos).



  • @dse Better:


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    To be fair, "There are more men than one man" sounds stupid too...



  • @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    It's the first one. "More" isn't a number.

    "There is more soup in these bowls." makes grammatical sense because soup is not a plural.



  • @bb36e said in MS can English goodly:

    @xaade said in MS can English goodly:

    Can't it still be technically be a complex number.

    Real numbers are complex, but they don't have an imaginary component

    They do have an imaginary component, but it is zero.



  • @ben_lubar said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    It's the first one. "More" isn't a number.

    "There is more soup in these bowls." makes grammatical sense because soup is not a plural.

    It's because 'soup' is an uncountable noun, which do not have a distinction between singular or plural. As such, it takes a singular verb.



  • @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    @ben_lubar said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    It's the first one. "More" isn't a number.

    "There is more soup in these bowls." makes grammatical sense because soup is not a plural.

    It's because 'soup' is an uncountable noun, which do not have a distinction between singular or plural. As such, it takes a singular verb.

    Are uncountable nouns plural, or are you arguing and agreeing at the same time?



  • @ben_lubar said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    @ben_lubar said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    It's the first one. "More" isn't a number.

    "There is more soup in these bowls." makes grammatical sense because soup is not a plural.

    It's because 'soup' is an uncountable noun, which do not have a distinction between singular or plural. As such, it takes a singular verb.

    Are uncountable nouns plural, or are you arguing and agreeing at the same time?

    I was agreeing with your soup statement, but clarifying/correcting how to get there. "Soup is not a plural" is technically correct, because soup is not a plural. But it's not exactly a singular noun either; it's in the separate category of uncountable nouns, which always take a singular verb.

    'More' is always plural when referring to countable nouns; it's always singular when referring to uncountable nouns or nondiscrete quantities.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    It's because 'soup' is an uncountable noun

    I can count multiple soups if I want:

    1. tomato soup
    2. chicken soup
    3. mushroom soup

    etc.

    Putting all of those in a single bowl is possible, but I'd rather not.



  • @dkf said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    It's because 'soup' is an uncountable noun

    I can count multiple soups if I want:

    1. tomato soup
    2. chicken soup
    3. mushroom soup

    etc.

    Putting all of those in a single bowl is possible, but I'd rather not.

    But then you've switched to the countable definition of soup. There are a lot of English words that can work double-duty as countable or uncountable nouns, depending on context.


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"

    Is the correct one.

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    According to conventional grammar rules, the correct construction is the second one, using "are", because the simple subject is the word "more", which is only singular when it refers to something that is not discretely countable, but is always plural otherwise.

    0_1485082244472_upload-2df6fa26-a55c-4fa0-8382-ace0d4dc2afc

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    Formal English should always follow conventional grammar.

    Even formal English uses 'There is' in this context.

    0_1485082326878_upload-4ee42e71-e116-46ee-adfd-78ff2459adac



  • @dse said in MS can English goodly:

    @RaceProUK You know it is non-zero, and nothing imaginary either.

    Nothing negative or fractions below one, either.


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    why?

    There's Nothing Wrong With Saying "10 Items or Less": Descriptivism vs Prescriptivism – 03:01
    — Tom Scott

    Like i get the error MicroShaft is an actual error.... but informal conversation between family? why?



  • @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    "Soup is not a plural" is technically correct, because soup is not a plural. But it's not exactly a singular noun either; it's in the separate category of uncountable nouns, which always take a singular verb.

    Depends. "My favorite soups are chicken noodle, minestrone, ...." :pendant: :hanzo:



  • @accalia said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    On a similar note, my family has a long-running argument over whether the proper phrasing is
    "There is more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car is in the parking lot"
    or
    "There are more than one car in the parking lot" / "More than one car are in the parking lot".

    why?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qT8ZYewYEY

    Like i get the error MicroShaft is an actual error.... but informal conversation between family? why?

    I think you missed this post where I discussed that:
    https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1080495

    BTW, I disagree with Tom Scott. If we simply allow "common usage" to dictate how the language should be, then local dialects quickly splinter off and become further and further apart, eventually creating separate languages, which is bad for broad communication. We need to have a central standard of rules to allow accurate communication between multiple parties.

    Practicing the formal rules in informal settings when formal communication is not necessary also helps make it easier in formal settings when the formal rules do become necessary.


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 But if you don't allow at least some variation, then languages can never evolve. Would you want to be speaking the same form of English that was used in 1215? I wouldn't.



  • @RaceProUK I'm not against local slang, but it should be recognized as such. Once something actually becomes widespread, then a change in the language overall can be recognized, but even then, some changes do and should remain slang regardless.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    if we simply allow "common usage" to dictate how the language should be

    How do you mean "allow"? How would you stop people? Are you planning to go to everyone in the South and tell them "ain't isn't a word, use isn't" and follow them around until they change? Language evolves whether we like it or not, and people learn more from each other than from professionals.

    People find a way to communicate. I'm not worried about language proliferation; honestly, with the internet, people are exposed to more ways of speaking and dialects than ever before. If something isn't useful, people don't do it.


  • sockdevs

    @Yamikuronue said in MS can English goodly:

    I'm not worried about language proliferation; honestly, with the internet, people are exposed to more ways of speaking and dialects than ever before.

    The Internet is also slowly bringing about a unification of language too in a way. At least, I think it is: as the need for international communication increases, there's also a greater need for a unified communication language.

    It makes sense in my head.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @RaceProUK Right. My point is, people who would otherwise have been isolated enough to develop more and more strange dialects are now talking to people without those regionalisms, learning that they're regional, and understanding how other regions talk. So while they might keep their dialect offline, they're not going to become isolated anymore. You don't need a governing body with official rules, you just need people in distinct regions to want to communicate with each other and they'll figure it out.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @Yamikuronue
    y'all ain't gots no right to tell us'n how to spek English!

    :trolleybus:


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    BTW, I disagree with Tom Scott. If we simply allow "common usage" to dictate how the language should be, then local dialects quickly splinter off and become further and further apart, eventually creating separate languages, which is bad for broad communication. We need to have a central standard of rules to allow accurate communication between multiple parties.

    ah. a prescriptivist hiding under the guise of a descriptivist....

    you must be hilarious at parties.



  • @RaceProUK said in MS can English goodly:

    @Yamikuronue said in MS can English goodly:

    I'm not worried about language proliferation; honestly, with the internet, people are exposed to more ways of speaking and dialects than ever before.

    The Internet is also slowly bringing about a unification of language too in a way. At least, I think it is: as the need for international communication increases, there's also a greater need for a unified communication language.

    It makes sense in my head.

    That's where emojis come in. Now we have a standard that allows us to convey universal concepts like

    • happiness :smile:
    • anger :rage:
    • man in business suit levitating :levitate:


  • @accalia said in MS can English goodly:

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    BTW, I disagree with Tom Scott. If we simply allow "common usage" to dictate how the language should be, then local dialects quickly splinter off and become further and further apart, eventually creating separate languages, which is bad for broad communication. We need to have a central standard of rules to allow accurate communication between multiple parties.

    ah. a prescriptivist hiding under the guise of a descriptivist....

    No, I'm saying there needs to be a balance.
    Too much prescriptivism, and language cannot evolve.
    Too much descriptivism, and accurate communication cannot occur.

    you must be hilarious at parties.

    Maaaaaaaaayyybee. Depends on the party. :eyes: :seye: :eyes:


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @djls45 said in MS can English goodly:

    Once something actually becomes widespread, then a change in the language overall can be recognized, but even then, some changes do and should remain slang regardless.

    But, who does the recognizing? And who authorizes them to be the recognizer?



  • @RaceProUK said in MS can English goodly:

    Would you want to be speaking the same form of English that was used in 1215? I wouldn't.

    Heck, no! 1065. *Bleep* the Normans; Harold should have won.


  • sockdevs

    @Tsaukpaetra said in MS can English goodly:

    And who authorizes them to be the recognizer?

    Who recognises the recognisers?



  • @RaceProUK said in MS can English goodly:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in MS can English goodly:

    And who authorizes them to be the recognizer?

    Who recognises the recognisers?

    These guys:


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @HardwareGeek said in MS can English goodly:

    @RaceProUK said in MS can English goodly:

    Would you want to be speaking the same form of English that was used in 1215? I wouldn't.

    Heck, no! 1065. *Bleep* the Normans; Harold should have won.

    He came fairly close to doing so, IIRC, and might've done so had he not had both a bit of bad luck and troops that had just fought another major battle nearly 300 miles away a few days earlier.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Lorne-Kates said in MS can English goodly:

    @RaceProUK said in MS can English goodly:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in MS can English goodly:

    And who authorizes them to be the recognizer?

    Who recognises the recognisers?

    These guys:

    :D Hey, you got the reference!



  • @dkf said in MS can English goodly:

    had just fought another major battle nearly 300 miles away a few days earlier.

    And won so decisively that the surviving enemies were permitted to depart in less than a tenth of the ships they'd arrived in.


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