Library fraud



  • Long live Chuck Finley!

    0_1483372602993_upload-5bf79dfc-eaef-4d35-88f0-359aaeb17142



  • @boomzilla why not just have a real person - one of the library employees, their friends, etc. do that? As far as I know lending and returning a book is free, and there's no law forbidding you from fucking with the librarians ( :giggity: ).



  • @Maciejasjmj said in Library fraud:

    there's no law forbidding you from fucking with the librarians ( :giggity: ).

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the library, though. At the least, you have to be very quiet.


  • sockdevs

    @HardwareGeek said in Library fraud:

    @Maciejasjmj said in Library fraud:

    there's no law forbidding you from fucking with the librarians ( :giggity: ).

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the library, though. At the least, you have to be very quiet.

    it's not so much illegal as against the code of conduct.

    as far as librarians are concerned that's a lot worse.


  • area_deu

    @HardwareGeek said in Library fraud:

    @Maciejasjmj said in Library fraud:

    there's no law forbidding you from fucking with the librarians ( :giggity: ).

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the library, though. At the least, you have to be very quiet.

    I'll never miss an opportunity to post this song!
    The Pains of Being Pure at Heart - Young Adult Friction - (3 of 10) – 04:07
    — Dick Rutan


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @HardwareGeek said in Library fraud:

    @Maciejasjmj said in Library fraud:

    there's no law forbidding you from fucking with the librarians ( :giggity: ).

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the library, though. At the least, you have to be very quiet.

    Not necessarily. If fiction is to be believed, as soon as the main characters enter the scene, a mystical back door opens to a hidden section of the library that's devoid of any other patrons (even the janitor sometimes!), so you don't have to be that quiet after all...



    1. Scan all books
    2. Recycle the paper they're on
    3. Use free space to put more tables
    4. Buy ebook readers, load with books, chain to the tables

    There. Library modernized, copyright violations averted by not giving people direct access to the files.


  • area_deu

    @Tsaukpaetra As the song I posted said, you can just do it between the shelves where the microfiche is. It's not like anyone would ever go there anymore ...


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @aliceif said in Library fraud:

    As the song I posted said,

    Apologies, at the time I had not watched it, and I'm not familiar with the song.



  • I the local public library, there are a few books in encyclopedia (oversized books) category in the children's library section that I think is still relevent to our current life and I'd be sad to see them go if there is such a rule of ditching books that is not borrowed a long time. (The fact that it's both "oversized" and "encyclopedia like" means except a few bookworms like me, few people will try to borrow it to home)

    Had there be such a rule, there need to be special rule that give library officers right to retain the books even if they're not borrowed for a long time.



  • @HardwareGeek said in Library fraud:

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the library, though. At the least, you have to be very quiet.

    She can't shush you with a full mouth.

    Though she can try.

    It might feel nice.



  • @Lorne-Kates That's highly inappropriate! It would just sound like "SHHHHPPPPLLLLBTTTT" anyways.



  • @Lorne-Kates said in Library fraud:

    It might feel nice.

    The sh sound is produced by bringing the upper and lower teeth into contact with each other. I don't think that would feel nice.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    Library modernized

    Copyright libraries (such as the Library of Congress) do something similar, except they put the books after scanning in a depository warehouse so that they don't decay as fast. There, they're kept in dark and often anoxic conditions, keeping them in a good condition for future scholars.



  • @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    1. Scan all books
    2. Recycle the paper they're on
    3. Use free space to put more tables
    4. Buy ebook readers, load with books, chain to the tables

    There. Library modernized, copyright violations averted by not giving people direct access to the files.

    Awesome, now how do I check a book out and take it home with me?



  • @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    1. Scan all books
    2. Recycle the paper they're on
    3. Use free space to put more tables
    4. Buy ebook readers, load with books, chain to the tables

    There. Library modernized, copyright violations averted by not giving people direct access to the files.

    Awesome, now how do I check a book out and take it home with me?

    What are you, a relic of a bygone age?



  • @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    1. Scan all books
    2. Recycle the paper they're on
    3. Use free space to put more tables
    4. Buy ebook readers, load with books, chain to the tables

    There. Library modernized, copyright violations averted by not giving people direct access to the files.

    Awesome, now how do I check a book out and take it home with me?

    Simple: you print it out on the recycled paper :slight_smile:



  • @PleegWat said in Library fraud:

    What are you, a relic of a bygone age?

    Until they invent an ebook reader that allows me to magically read and retain 2,000+ WPM, I'll always be stuck needing to be able to take books home with me. I'm not willing to sit in a library for long enough to read a whole book unless I can read it in a very short length of time. And I'm definitely not willing to remember my place in a book and go back to the library later to continue reading it and hope that nobody else is reading their last copy.

    The only type of books that it'd work for would be the books in the library's reference section. And that's just because those books are meant to be looked through to find specific information that's needed, not read from cover to cover.

    @RaceProUK said in Library fraud:

    Simple: you print it out on the recycled paper

    It'd be pretty much impossible to avoid violating copyright if the library allowed people to do that.



  • @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    Until they invent an ebook reader that allows me to magically read and retain 2,000+ WPM, I'll always be stuck needing to be able to take books home with me. I'm not willing to sit in a library for long enough to read a whole book unless I can read it in a very short length of time. And I'm definitely not willing to remember my place in a book and go back to the library later to continue reading it and hope that nobody else is reading their last copy.

    I suppose the idea was that you'd be checking the book out on your own e-book reader.



  • @Maciejasjmj said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    Until they invent an ebook reader that allows me to magically read and retain 2,000+ WPM, I'll always be stuck needing to be able to take books home with me. I'm not willing to sit in a library for long enough to read a whole book unless I can read it in a very short length of time. And I'm definitely not willing to remember my place in a book and go back to the library later to continue reading it and hope that nobody else is reading their last copy.

    I suppose the idea was that you'd be checking the book out on your own e-book reader.

    Not possible under the idea as described, as it would invalidate this claim:

    copyright violations averted by not giving people direct access to the files.


  • mod

    @anotherusername There are actually library ebook lending programs where they have a special license that allows them to loan their copy to one patron at a time, for infinite patrons. This is less restrictive than Amazon's typical policy (one loan, ever, for the lifetime of the book).



  • @Yamikuronue said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername There are actually library ebook lending programs where they have a special license that allows them to loan their copy to one patron at a time, for infinite patrons. This is less restrictive than Amazon's typical policy (one loan, ever, for the lifetime of the book).

    My local library does this using Adobe Digital Editions which automatically expire after a couple weeks. It is of course impossible to defeat this in any way, and it works perfectly to prevent any copyright infringement.



  • @Yamikuronue said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername There are actually library ebook lending programs where they have a special license that allows them to loan their copy to one patron at a time, for infinite patrons. This is less restrictive than Amazon's typical policy (one loan, ever, for the lifetime of the book).

    I am aware, but the vast majority of the library's existing collection of books will likely not have been acquired under that license. Obtaining that license for their existing collection of books would be exorbitantly costly and not even possible for the books whose authors would not (or could not -- if they're dead, for instance) agree to sell the library that type of license.



  • @anotherusername Special ebook readers that don't let you copy the files out, only in.


  • mod

    @anotherusername Oh yes, this entire plan is stupid and cost-prohibitive. I'm just being a :pendant:



  • @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    Obtaining that license for their existing collection of books would be exorbitantly costly and not even possible for the books whose authors would not (or could not -- if they're dead, for instance) agree to sell the library that type of license.

    For entire collections, yes. For new books and ones where the copyright has been ceded to an entity that's still kicking, it should still be possible.



  • @anotherusername There's a solution: change copyright law.

    But Disney may not agree.



  • @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername Special ebook readers that don't let you copy the files out, only in.

    Will it work with my existing ebook reader? (That'd be my laptop computer, I suppose.) What if I want to read it and I'm not connected to wi-fi... will the authorization to read the ebook be cached?

    Basically the scheme can work (even with existing "one copy in active use at any one place at one time" sort of license that books typically have), but it needs to have some sort of encryption and a digital token that allows them to read the book until its term expires, and after that the file is no longer available to them.

    In fact, it doesn't really even have to be bulletproof. It just has to be effective enough to shift the liability for the infringement away from the library and over to the person who breaks whatever copyright protection was used to protect the ebook.



  • @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername There's a solution: change copyright law.

    But Disney may not agree.

    Could feasibly be done for works produced in the future, or works on which the copyright expires. I'm reasonably certain, though, that copyright law for existing works will never be shortened or made less restrictive on use at any time within the term of their existing copyright protection.

    Stealing works from the public domain, on the other hand, by extending the term of their copyright protection indefinitely before it expires -- that's entirely likely. Disney has big bucks invested in doing exactly that.



  • @anotherusername No, you get a physical ebook reader from the library with the book(s) you want, and then return it when you're done.



  • @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername No, you get a physical ebook reader from the library with the book(s) you want, and then return it when you're done.

    That would work, but it'd be pretty expensive. You could replace a $20 book a whole bunch of times for the same price as a single $200 ebook reader (and you'd still have to buy a copy of the book, to be able to lend it out on the ebook reader). The ebook reader won't last forever, either. It might or might not be cheaper in the long run, but it'd definitely be a huge upfront cost just to get started.

    And I also notice you've departed from your original idea of chaining them to the tables. :trolleybus: (fwiw, that was the part that I originally found silly.)



  • The local library here has an ebook program. I don't know how good it is for other people, but it has all the Discworld books, which is what I've been reading lately.

    The company they do it through has a decent mobile app that doesn't require a constant internet connection just to read the books I checked out. Or I can read through my web browser. Or I could get that adobe program if I really wanted t- pfft yeah right.



  • @Yamikuronue said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername There are actually library ebook lending programs where they have a special license that allows them to loan their copy to one patron at a time, for infinite patrons. This is less restrictive than Amazon's typical policy (one loan, ever, for the lifetime of the book).

    I use Overdrive in conjunction with my local library (and Amazon/Kindle). It requires a library card from my local library. Absolutely love the system. Except with there's only one copy and you're 11th on the list... (I'm now 2nd after getting into queue last Aug.) Checkout is 3 weeks. It auto returns. (But if I turn wifi off on the kindle, it can't be told to return - only did that a couple times when I only had a chapter left)

    edit: there are some books that aren't kindle - then I've used some adobe thing - think it was the one mentioned above. But I only installed that on my travel laptop and I'm too lazy to get up to see what it was.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @HardwareGeek said in Library fraud:

    @Lorne-Kates said in Library fraud:

    It might feel nice.

    The sh sound is produced by bringing the upper and lower teeth into contact with each other. I don't think that would feel nice.

    Depends on the stage, TBH. It's a valid foreplay action I think...


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    1. Scan all books
    2. Recycle the paper they're on
    3. Use free space to put more tables
    4. Buy ebook readers, load with books, chain to the tables

    There. Library modernized, copyright violations averted by not giving people direct access to the files.

    Awesome, now how do I check a book out and take it home with me?

    The Pagemaster - full movie – [55:00..1:02:33] 1:02:33
    — Hien Pulkkinen

    Use your Imagination! :rainbow:


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @anonymous234 said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername Special ebook readers that don't let you copy the files out, only in.

    I once had an MP3 player that did that,

    fricking annoying it was: Didn't use a standard USB connector, only 64 Mb of storage. I loved that thing.

    Then I got my HP Pocket PC with an SD Card slot, and protected the shit out of my pocket with that instead!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    could not

    Not a problem per se. Either the heirs of the estate can be found (and persuaded to sell a license) or they can't (and thus can't reasonably have standing to sue over it).



  • @dkf said in Library fraud:

    @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    could not

    Not a problem per se. Either the heirs of the estate can be found (and persuaded to sell a license) or they can't (and thus can't reasonably have standing to sue over it).

    They should probably be careful about that. Commercial copyright infringement involving more than 10 copies and value over $2500 is a felony, and I'm not sure it necessarily requires someone who'd have standing to sue in civil court to actually bring the complaint.

    I wouldn't think it'd be very much good for the reputation of a library, either. They have a rather strong vested interest in staying on the right side of copyright law.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anotherusername said in Library fraud:

    I'm not sure it necessarily requires someone who'd have standing to sue in civil court to actually bring the complaint.

    I think this was the subject of litigation some while back, when a copyright troll took a load of people to court over things that they didn't in fact own the copyright to and where they weren't authorised agents for the actual owners. It didn't go well for the troll…



  • @dkf that was civil suits over copyright infringement; I'm talking about felony charges for copyright infringement. They're totally different things, handled in totally different ways.

    For someone to sue for copyright infringement, they do need to own the rights to royalties on the specific materials whose copyright they claim is being infringed. But criminal charges can be brought against someone even when the victim isn't on board with the charges.

    It'd be bad press to charge a library with a felony, but I'd think it would also be bad press for a library to be guilty of committing a felony even if they're not charged with it.


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