Traffic sins



  • @RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:

    Though given how reckless cyclists can be, I sometimes think they should.

    That flame war is :arrows:; let's keep it there, please.



  • @RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:

    Though given how reckless cyclists can be, I sometimes think they should.

    As a bicyclist, I do not disagree! (People look at me weird when I actually obey stop signs / lights)



  • @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    And yet it seems that the manual drivers of the world can do it on a regular basis without issue.

    Except when they can't.

    The drivers of the world can drive on a regular basis without issue. Why even have drivers licenses at all?

    Your information is still out of date (at least for certain vehicles).

    Wrong, it still requires you to be stopped. Your vehicle's computer might let you ask it to go into 4WD low at any time, but it won't actually do it until you stop.

    I didn't read that far back. But.... if you get rear ended - it's the fault of the person behind you. Failure to maintain a safe distance and all that.

    I have it on good authority (as in, the person from Germany insisted that it's true) that in Germany if you stop in traffic for no good reason and the person behind you can't stop that quickly and hits you, you will be at least partially at fault.



  • @HardwareGeek said in Traffic sins:

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    The controls aren't completely different; they're just in different places.

    Steering: handlebars vs. wheel
    Brake: squeeze a lever with your hand vs. press a pedal with your foot
    Throttle: twist a handle vs. press a foot pedal
    Clutch: hand lever vs. foot pedal
    Shifter: do something with your foot vs. hand lever

    What the controls do is the same, but how you operate them is completely different.

    Mostly right. Motorcycles have a hand lever for the front brake and a foot pedal for the rear brake. Unless it's a chopper, then there is often no front brake and the rear brake is more of an instant-crash-and-die-lever if you actually need to brake hard.

    The shifter is a weird pedal by the left foot. Tap down to downshift one gear, pull up to upshift one gear, and you can hit neutral by doing a "low-force" shift between 1st and 2nd.

    Also, steering. You have to countersteer a motorcycle which is not intuitive at first. To turn left, you actually start by turning your handlebars to the right. There's nothing like that on a car.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    And yet it seems that the manual drivers of the world can do it on a regular basis without issue.

    Except when they can't.

    All it takes is once to get the hang of it.

    The drivers of the world can drive on a regular basis without issue. Why even have drivers licenses at all?

    Now you're being obtuse. 🤔

    Wrong, it still requires you to be stopped. Your vehicle's computer might let you ask it to go into 4WD low at any time, but it won't actually do it until you stop.

    Sounds pretty fancy. I don't have a computer to do the switching - I have a nice big lever and an operator's manual that states to be in motion to switch to 4 low. Granted it's slow but it's still in motion.

    I have it on good authority (as in, the person from Germany insisted that it's true) that in Germany if you stop in traffic for no good reason and the person behind you can't stop that quickly and hits you, you will be at least partially at fault.

    I don't live in Germany although I was able to safely drive on the AutoBahn as fast as my shitty little rental Ford would carry me (which wasn't very fast). I don't know German driving laws but I was able to rent a manual car and drive it without issue despite not recognizing the weird traffic signs. Thanks Germany for not requiring me to get certified 👍



  • @HardwareGeek said in Traffic sins:

    Steering: handlebars vs. wheel

    Rotate right, turn right. Rotate left, turn left. It just has a slightly different style of handle and it's on a slightly different axis. It's still basically the same thing.

    Brake: squeeze a lever with your hand vs. press a pedal with your foot

    Bicycles have the brake in the same place and you don't need a special drivers license -- or any at all -- for them. Disqualified.

    Throttle: twist a handle vs. press a foot pedal

    Yeah, okay. That's different. I don't think it takes a huge lot of getting used to, though.

    Clutch: hand lever vs. foot pedal
    Shifter: do something with your foot vs. hand lever

    Bikes with automatic transmissions exist. Anyway, you don't get to say that learning how to operate a manual transmission is a big enough difference to require a special test for a motorcycle if it's not a big enough difference to require a special test for a car. 🚎



  • @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    All it takes is once to get the hang of it.

    You're kidding, right? Then why are there so many manual transmission drivers who are clearly incapable of starting on a hill without rolling backward several feet?

    Now you're being obtuse. 🤔

    Just showing that the same logic you're using can also be used against you.

    I have a nice big lever and an operator's manual that states to be in motion to switch to 4 low. Granted it's slow but it's still in motion.

    Yeah okay, we're back to "no Bad Things are happening if it takes you 2.5 seconds instead of 0.5 seconds to remember where the big lever is". Irrelevant in an emergency because no emergency that requires quick thinking is going to require you to operate that lever.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Rotate right, turn right. Rotate left, turn left. It just has a slightly different style of handle and it's on a slightly different axis. It's still basically the same thing.

    Nope, not even close. Motorcycle steering is an order of magnitude more complex than on cars. Look up countersteering. If you can't countersteer, you will fail to turn and crash. Plus you have to be extra conscious of traction. Losing traction through a turn in a car isn't that big a deal. Losing traction through a turn in a motorcycle will result in a crash. Gear changes and braking can also be extra-crashy through turns. Losing power (either by stalling, hand slipping off the throttle, or even the transmission slipping into neutral) through a turn almost always causes a crash.

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Bicycles have the brake in the same place and you don't need a special drivers license -- or any at all -- for them. Disqualified.

    Not quite. Bicycles have the front brake on the left handlebar, rear brake on the right handlebar. Motorcycles have the front brake on the right handlebar, rear brake as a right foot pedal, and the left handlebar is the clutch and not a brake at all. I actually have a bit of trouble on bicycles because of that, reflexively reaching for a clutch causes an endo.

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Yeah, okay. That's different. I don't think it takes a huge lot of getting used to, though.

    These actually work about the same.

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Bikes with automatic transmissions exist.

    They are extremely rare though, and expensive. I've never known anyone who owned one, I've only seen them on showroom floors. Hardly anybody buys them apparently.



  • @mott555 you make a fairly good argument for requiring motorcycles (and bicycles) to get special (one for motorcycles, and another one for bicycles) drivers license certifications before you're allowed to use one. (I actually don't disagree.)

    Not much good argument against requiring someone to get a special certification to operate a manual transmission, which was what I was originally arguing for.

    I'm trying to figure out how someone could want a special license in the one case and not in the other.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    @mott555 you make a fairly good argument for requiring motorcycles (and bicycles) to get special (one for motorcycles, and another one for bicycles) drivers license certifications before you're allowed to use one.

    I agree about motorcycles having a special license simply because you can't just hop on and ride without any training. (My very first motorcycle experience ended in a ditch because I expected it to be a bigger bicycle and I couldn't get it to turn.) Disagree about bicycles because they shouldn't be on the road at all. 🚎

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Not much good argument against requiring someone to get a special certification to operate a manual transmission, which was what I was originally arguing for.

    I don't care about that argument at all. I was just butting in for some corrective :pendant: about motorcycles.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    All it takes is once to get the hang of it.

    You're kidding, right? Then why are there so many manual transmission drivers who are clearly incapable of starting on a hill without rolling backward several feet?

    So what if they roll back a few feet? I don't know what the proper safe distance is for cars at a stop is but it's more than a few feet.

    Now you're being obtuse. 🤔

    Just showing that the same logic you're using can also be used against you.

    I couldn't say whether drivers licenses are needed or not. Given that legislators put laws into place for driving cars and motorcycles I would have to give them the benefit of the doubt and say there must have been a good reason. On the other hand they have never felt compelled to require certification for driving a manual transmission. Maybe that will change but I suspect not.

    I have a nice big lever and an operator's manual that states to be in motion to switch to 4 low. Granted it's slow but it's still in motion.

    Yeah okay, we're back to "no Bad Things are happening if it takes you 2.5 seconds instead of 0.5 seconds to remember where the big lever is". Irrelevant in an emergency because no emergency that requires quick thinking is going to require you to operate that lever.

    No I was past that, I was just pointing out where you were wrong and giving you good information. Irrelevant to our discussion.



  • @mott555 said in Traffic sins:

    I don't care about that argument at all. I was just butting in for some corrective :pendant: about motorcycles.

    And I was just butting in for :pendant: about manual cars being as different as motorcycles. I don't really care whether manual transmissions require an extra certification (though I'd have to borrow or rent a car with a manual to take the test), but I'd say the case for it is not nearly as convincing as for a motorcycle.



  • @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    So what if they roll back a few feet? I don't know what the proper safe distance is for cars at a stop is but it's more than a few feet.

    That's a few feet in the best case, given their level of incompetence. If they get flustered and panic, it could be significantly more.

    And if the driver behind them freaks out and starts reversing without paying attention to what's behind them, they could hit something. I once took someone's front plate off their bumper because they had pulled out of a driveway just a hair too much and I didn't see them because I was focused on the idiot who was stalling out and rolling back toward me from the front. Not that I'm trying to excuse my mistake, either. Luckily it was nothing they couldn't fix by just screwing it back in and their growlings about police were calmed when I offered to give them $20 to "fix" the damage that they'd probably fix with a screwdriver themselves.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    So what if they roll back a few feet? I don't know what the proper safe distance is for cars at a stop is but it's more than a few feet.

    That's a few feet in the best case, given their level of incompetence. If they get flustered and panic, it could be significantly more.

    I have only been able to identify two cars as manual in my amateur driving career. One was obvious because the guy always drove it in too low of a gear. The other, the woman stalled out at a light a few times. It happens so rarely that there is better low hanging fruit to address.

    And if the driver behind them freaks out and starts reversing without paying attention to what's behind them, they could hit something.

    Yeah but that's their fault.

    I once took someone's front plate off their bumper because they had pulled out of a driveway just a hair too much and I didn't see them because I was focused on the idiot who was stalling out and rolling back toward me from the front. Not that I'm trying to excuse my mistake, either.

    I'm having a hard time identifying your mistake. One person rolls backwards and you pay attention - perfectly normal. Another pulls out too far without paying enough attention and effectively hits you.

    Luckily it was nothing they couldn't fix by just screwing it back in and their growlings about police were calmed when I offered to give them $20 to "fix" the damage that they'd probably fix with a screwdriver themselves.

    Screw that - ask the police to cite them.



  • @brianw13a I usually can't tell either. I saw one the other day though where the driver was so bad at shifting that he lost about 15 mph by the time he was in gear again.



  • @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    All it takes is once to get the hang of it.

    Um, no. It takes practice. When I first started driving a manual (which wasn't too terribly long after I first started driving), I lived in an area where I seldom, if ever, drove in hills, so I didn't get much practice at hill starts. It probably took me years to get to the point where I could consistently start without rolling back, stalling or overrevving the engine. Even then, if you'd put me in somebody else's car, I'd have had to relearn just where the clutch bit and how much gas it needed not to stall.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    And I believe it's at least as big of a difference as driving a motorcycle, which is why I keep going back to that.

    It's not, though.

    When going from an automatic to a manual, you have to learn to:

    • Manage the gear changes.
    • Stop and get moving from a stop.
    • How to manage in an emergency situation. (If you don't get this one, it's not a show stopper, though a true emergency could mean costly repairs to your drive train.)

    That's pretty much it.

    When going from a car, the changes are much more significant. You have to learn:

    • A new steering method.
    • An entirely new set of controls.
    • Usually a new way of managing your gear changes (most motorcycles are manual transmissions, with a completely different shifting mechanism than manual transmission cars).
    • How to mitigate road hazards without the comfort of being surrounded by tons of metal with built in crumple zones.
    • Radically different acceleration and stopping profile.
    • Some additional rules of the road that are specific to two wheeled motor-vehicles.

    There's a huge difference between the two scenarios.



  • @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    I'm having a hard time identifying your mistake. One person rolls backwards and you pay attention - perfectly normal. Another pulls out too far without paying enough attention and effectively hits you.

    No... they were already pulled out of the driveway partially, and they stopped when they saw me reversing. Then I reversed into them. They didn't hit me. I'm reasonably certain it was my fault.



  • @abarker said in Traffic sins:

    When going from a car, the changes are much more significant. You have to learn:

    • A new steering method.
    • An entirely new set of controls.
    • Usually a new way of managing your gear changes (most motorcycles are manual transmissions, with a completely different shifting mechanism than manual transmission cars).
    • How to mitigate road hazards without the comfort of being surrounded by tons of metal with built in crumple zones.
    • Radically different acceleration and stopping profile.
    • Some additional rules of the road that are specific to two wheeled motor-vehicles.

    There's a huge difference between the two scenarios.

    Yes, but most of those things can be learned from the saddle of a regular pedal-operated bicycle without getting a drivers license at all.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Yes, but most of those things can be learned from the saddle of a regular pedal-operated bicycle

    Motorcycle !== bicycle. Knowing how to ride one means next to nothing as far as riding the other.



  • @mott555 would you say the difference between a bicycle and motorcycle is more or less different (and more or less difficult to adapt to) than the difference between an automatic transmission and a manual transmission in a car?



  • @anotherusername I'd say the difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle is greater than the difference between an auto and a manual. A lot of that has to do with weight differences between rider and machine, and center of gravity differences, which make them steer completely different. Beyond that, risk management is quite a bit different since there's much less margin for error on a motorcycle at highway speeds surrounded by texting idiots in 2-ton death machines versus a bicycle going 20 mph on a bike trail somewhere.

    Then again, I learned on and drove manuals for years and it was so second-nature to me that I actually had a lot of trouble adapting to an automatic when I finally had to get one. Even a year later, I still occasionally had near-panics when I couldn't find the clutch while coming up to a stop sign.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Yes, but most of those things can be learned from the saddle of a regular pedal-operated bicycle without getting a drivers license at all.

    Really?

    • A new steering method. I've never gone fast enough on a bicycle to need to use counter steering. Nope, not learning it there. Sure, the basic steering method's there, but … ok, half a point. +0.5
    • An entirely new set of controls. Yeah, a bike isn't going to tell me where the brake controls, or (if I care to use them) the signal controls on a motorcycle are, or how to use them. In fact, getting used to the arrangement of brake controls on a bicycle could cause issues when driving a motorcycle. Nope, not learning this on a bicycle either. +0
    • A new way of managing you gears. Totally different from the shifter on a bike. Again, not getting anything from a bike that will apply to a motorcycle. +0
    • Mitigating road hazards without the comfort of being surrounded by tons of metal with built in crumple zones. Somewhat. I mean, on a bicycle, you learn to avoid potholes and stuff like that. But many of the actual hazards motorcycle riders need to worry about come from being surrounded by lots of cars. Ok, you can have a quarter point here. +0.25
    • Radically different acceleration and stopping profile. Yeah, you can only really learn that on a motorcycle. +0.
    • Some additional rules of the road that are specific to two wheeled motor-vehicles. COnsidering we're talking about stuff specific to two wheeled motor vehicles (like mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles), this is stuff you aren't going to pick up riding a bike. +0

    So you got 0.75/6.So much for learning "most of those things" from a bicycle.



  • @mott555 said in Traffic sins:

    Even a year later, I still occasionally had near-panics when I couldn't find the clutch while coming up to a stop sign.

    I wouldn't say panic, but many's the time I stomped on a clutch pedal that wasn't there. (I also tend to stomp on pedals aren't there when riding as a passenger. Pissed my ex-wife off...)



  • @HardwareGeek said in Traffic sins:

    @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    All it takes is once to get the hang of it.

    Um, no. It takes practice. When I first started driving a manual (which wasn't too terribly long after I first started driving), I lived in an area where I seldom, if ever, drove in hills, so I didn't get much practice at hill starts. It probably took me years to get to the point where I could consistently start without rolling back, stalling or overrevving the engine.

    I didn't say they'd be a pro. But you got the idea once you did it. Rolling back, over-revving, etc. is acceptable as long as you don't hit anyone.

    Even then, if you'd put me in somebody else's car, I'd have had to relearn just where the clutch bit and how much gas it needed not to stall.

    I know what you mean. The same is true with brakes.



  • @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    Rolling back, over-revving, etc. is acceptable as long as you don't hit anyone.

    I disagree. Rolling back puts you at risk of hitting someone. And stalling inconveniences everyone behind you.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Then why are there so many manual transmission drivers who are clearly incapable of starting on a hill without rolling backward several feet?

    Because drivers' ed sucks in your area? That's explicitly tested here (if you're taking the test with a manual transmission, as is normal) and rolling back several feet would be a fail precisely because of the likelihood of it causing a crash. Stalling the vehicle isn't a fail, well, not necessarily; it depends on where. But it does help to make me the driver panic a bit, which can induce mistakes.

    I believe there are parts of the country where finding a hill adequate for testing purposes is tricky due to the local roads being so flat. (Coastal marshlands are like that.) My father says that they had to use a humpback railway bridge when he was tested long ago. :)



  • @dkf said in Traffic sins:

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    Then why are there so many manual transmission drivers who are clearly incapable of starting on a hill without rolling backward several feet?

    Because drivers' ed sucks in your area? That's explicitly tested here (if you're taking the test with a manual transmission, as is normal) and rolling back several feet would be a fail precisely because of the likelihood of it causing a crash. Stalling the vehicle isn't a fail, well, not necessarily; it depends on where. But it does help to make me the driver panic a bit, which can induce mistakes.

    Perhaps. But since nothing on the drivers license itself says that you are/are not certified to drive stick, you could easily bypass that by borrowing someone's automatic transmission vehicle to take the test in.

    I believe there are parts of the country where finding a hill adequate for testing purposes is tricky due to the local roads being so flat. (Coastal marshlands are like that.) My father says that they had to use a humpback railway bridge when he was tested long ago. :)

    It's slightly less important that they know how to start on a hill, if the nearest hill is a few hundred miles away. It'd still be nice if they did, just... slightly less crucial that they do...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @mott555 said in Traffic sins:

    Beyond that, risk management is quite a bit different since there's much less margin for error on a motorcycle at highway speeds surrounded by texting idiots in 2-ton death machines versus a bicycle going 20 mph on a bike trail somewhere.

    https://youtu.be/igp9sJkuAnU?t=1m20s


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    nothing on the drivers license itself says that you are/are not certified to drive stick

    UK licenses definitely say that.



  • @dkf said in Traffic sins:

    Downhill MTB GoPro footage

    That's yet again another set of risk management skills that cannot be obtained by crossover from a different experience. (A skill set I neither have nor particularly care to acquire, BTW.)



  • @dkf said in Traffic sins:

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    nothing on the drivers license itself says that you are/are not certified to drive stick

    UK licenses definitely say that.

    Yeah, and I think that makes a lot of sense.

    As far as I know, no part of the US differentiates between them or specifically requires you to take the test in a car with stick before being legally allowed to drive one. In fact I'm pretty sure I've heard it recommended to find a car with an automatic transmission to take the test in if your car has stick just so that the test's easier and you don't have to concentrate on operating the gears manually.


  • Trolleybus Mechanic

    Another sin: GET OFF YOUR FUCKING PHONE.

    Are you behind the wheel? DON'T TOUCH YOUR FUCKING PHONE.

    But I'm at a stopli-- I DON'T CARE! YOU AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR ENVIRONMENT! GET OFF YOUR FUCKING PHONE!

    But I just want to see the te-- ARE YOU LOOKING AT OR PHYSICALLY TOUCHING YOUR PHONE? THEN YOU FUCKING FAIL! STOP. NOW.

    I'll be quick-- NOT ANY AMOUNT OF TIME. PRETEND THAT IF YOU TOUCH YOUR PHONE FOR EVEN A SECOND YOU WILL DIE. BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY WILL!!!

    Oh, but I'm not like other drivers I can handl-- NO PHONE! EVER! ASSHOLE!

    You can't pay attention while looking at your phone. You can't react to situations around you. You can't be aware when the light changes. You will look up, see a car further ahead than it was before, panic, hit the gas, and only then realize the person just moved up but isn't moving and slam into them. Or they moved up to let someone make a turn through stopped traffic and you don't see that because you weren't paying attention and now you just t-boned someone making a turn.

    You fucking asshole. Stop looking at your goddamn phone.

    FFS, in my city there was a social media thread that started like this:

    👩 I ride the bus to work and I can see dozens of people, every day, playing on their phones. It's disgusting. You [police twitter account] should ride the bus and catch these idiots.

    Which is why it warmed my heart to see this:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/distracted-driving-police-tickets-york-region-1.3907419

    👍


  • Trolleybus Mechanic

    @Lorne-Kates Also, goddamn it, blubar, why is css so hard for NodeBB?

    0_1482463857323_upload-65869fbe-239c-42e4-917c-4aca393c0904

    /cc @ben_lubar

    edit: to be clear, that's the autocomplete falling off the bottom of the screen.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    In fact I'm pretty sure I've heard it recommended to find a car with an automatic transmission to take the test in if your car has stick just so that the test's easier and you don't have to concentrate on operating the gears manually.

    :facepalm:



  • If it's so simple as to be equivalent, why don't you just require all drivers to pass a test with manual transmission?



  • Fuck manual transmission. When I was learning how to drive, it basically occupied 80% of my attention.

    Sure, it's easy once you've learned it. But learning it takes a significant amount of time.


  • FoxDev

    @anonymous234 said in Traffic sins:

    But learning it takes a significant amount of time.

    Depends on the person: I learnt how to use a manual in under 10 minutes.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:

    I learnt how to use a manual in under 10 minutes.

    To use it, or to use it well?


  • FoxDev

    @loopback0 Well enough to drive home at the end of my first lesson, which my instructor told me isn't that common.



  • @dkf

    I ride dirt bikes off-road, and

    http://i.imgur.com/n3RGs0O.gif


  • 🚽 Regular

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    If it helps, just let them pass, and as they're speeding past you imagine them getting pulled over. There, they got caught. Now you can be happy for their suffering for being such an asshole and wanting to drive fast and the horrible inconvenience of you having to change lanes just to let them speed.

    I actually had this happen to me. I was overtaking, at quite a pace, and the car behind me was right up my behind with his indicator on.
    I finished the manoeuvre and pulled back in and he shot off, must have been doing double the speed limit.

    A few minutes later I saw him on the hard-shoulder with an unmarked police car all lit up. I nearly crashed laughing.

    Sadly that's only happened once though.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @mott555 There's loads of videos about that sort of madness. I can only conclude that the people doing it are utterly nuts.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:

    Well enough to drive home at the end of my first lesson, which my instructor told me isn't that common.

    But I'd imagine not well enough to pass a driving test. That does take significantly longer.



  • @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    If it helps, just let them pass, and as they're speeding past you imagine them getting pulled overwith their car wrapped around a tree.

    FTFY



  • @HardwareGeek said in Traffic sins:

    @brianw13a said in Traffic sins:

    Rolling back, over-revving, etc. is acceptable as long as you don't hit anyone.

    I disagree. Rolling back puts you at risk of hitting someone.

    Notice I said as long as you don't hit anyone.

    And stalling inconveniences everyone behind you.

    Yes it does but I don't have a lot of sympathy. Learning to not stall doesn't take very long but it learning to pay attention to the light is a life long endeavor for some people.


  • FoxDev

    @loopback0 said in Traffic sins:

    @RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:

    Well enough to drive home at the end of my first lesson, which my instructor told me isn't that common.

    But I'd imagine not well enough to pass a driving test. That does take significantly longer.

    True. But then I only remember stalling once or twice in all the time I was a learner, and I got the hang of hill starts pretty quickly too.



  • @loopback0 said in Traffic sins:

    @anotherusername said in Traffic sins:

    In fact I'm pretty sure I've heard it recommended to find a car with an automatic transmission to take the test in if your car has stick just so that the test's easier and you don't have to concentrate on operating the gears manually.

    :facepalm:

    Yeah... well... it makes perfect sense, if it's legal... which it is. And the license you get is just the same either way.



  • @RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:

    @anonymous234 said in Traffic sins:

    But learning it takes a significant amount of time.

    Depends on the person: I learnt how to use a manual in under 10 minutes.

    And the vehicle. Some manual transmission vehicles are easier to drive than others. According to my dad, the vehicle I have (and learned in) is one of the hardest to drive he's ever been in. You might've lucked out.


  • FoxDev

    @anotherusername I will admit, learning in a Vauxhall Corsa C diesel is a help: they're easy to drive and very hard to stall. Then again, I've adapted very quickly to a petrol of the same, a petrol Corsa D (my current car), petrol Fiestas both MkIV and MkV, two petrol VW Polos, a petrol MkII Ford Focus, a diesel Kia C-Apostrophe-D, a petrol Pug 207, and a petrol Renault Captur. Oh, and a petrol Honda Jazz and MG TF.

    I think what really helps is simply that I love to drive. And you're always better at the stuff you enjoy :D


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