Why Google's Docs and Spreadsheets will never work



  • Not really a wtf but this is a perfect example of why docs and spreadsheets isn't a viable alternative to local applications.

     

     

    img66/9171/googledownyx0.jpg<script type="text/javascript"></script>

     



  • Desktops have downtime too. I suspect Google is more reliable than the bad old days of WinBSODs 98



  • Desktops are under your control, you get a bsod, you can always restart and be back up in 2 minutes.  Gmail has now been down for about 30 minutes and is completely out of my control except for trying every couple minutes to see if the issue is fixed yet.



  • Bingo.

    Buy Microsoft Office!

    No, honestly, it's good... dammit, nobody believes me anymore.



  • Or use OO.org and spare yourself several hundred bucks.

    BTW, it does run faster than Microsoft Office on my PC.
     



  • @m0ffx said:

    Desktops have downtime too. I suspect Google is more reliable than the bad old days of WinBSODs 98

     While you're probably right, the "bad old days of WinBSODs 98" are 9 years old; Google's apps are current.
     



  • @Cloaked User said:

    @m0ffx said:

    Desktops have downtime too. I suspect Google is more reliable than the bad old days of WinBSODs 98

     While you're probably right, the "bad old days of WinBSODs 98" are 9 years old; Google's apps are current.
     

    I think you're missing the point. The point is, if you get a BSOD, you can still access your documents onli- oh, hold on a second... 



  • Not to mention those documents that are supposed to be secured.  Using Google you have no idea what their level of security actually is.  Is a Google employee able to read this info?  Are they making proper backups of this data?  Can we show proper transfer of ownership on a document?  There are many reasons why a company can't go with an online solution.



  • @CDarklock said:

    Bingo.

    Buy Microsoft Office!

    No, honestly, it's good... dammit, nobody believes me anymore.

    Excel is the only Microsoft program I actually find consistently more useful and efficient than the competition (although Visio is pretty good). OO.org Writer runs circles around Word.  Most of the other stuff in there I try to avoid.



  • I can't see any advantage to web applications over normal applications, aside from the ability to access your "documents" from any computer. Since it's easy enough to put your file on a floppy, upload it somewhere, or use one of those USB flash drives, I don't consider this to be worth it.

    My theory about this bizarre antipathy toward the desktop computer is that it's being pushed by media companies, who are coming to realize that all their DRM schemes are ultimately futile as long as you can play a DVD on a computer you have physical access to. Any program can be cracked, but only as long as you actually have the program.



  • I thought it worked well for our College Bowl pool last December, although it seemed a bit slow and glitchy.  I wouldn't want to use it for anything more serious yet.  Excel is pretty hard to beat, really.



  • @shadowman said:

    I thought it worked well for our College Bowl pool last December, although it seemed a bit slow and glitchy.  I wouldn't want to use it for anything more serious yet.  Excel is pretty hard to beat, really.

    Slow and Glitchy now equals Works Well?

    Careful, statements like this are always later taken out of context.  Personally I wouldn't call slow and glitchy as working well, regardless of the usage it was put to. 



  • @CapitalT said:

    Or use OO.org and spare yourself several hundred bucks.

    BTW, it does run faster than Microsoft Office on my PC.

    Or go to the launch tour and get MS Office 2007 for free, like I did.

     



  • There is a simple solution: cache local copies of documents every time they are saved online. Then add Javascript to revert to these copies when the server conneciton is lost. It would be similar to MS Word's rescued document process, and of course users would need to overwrite their online copy. For collaborative documents, a versioning system like that used in wikis would work.



  • @antonrojo said:

    There is a simple solution: cache local copies of documents every time they are saved online. Then add Javascript to revert to these copies when the server conneciton is lost. It would be similar to MS Word's rescued document process, and of course users would need to overwrite their online copy. For collaborative documents, a versioning system like that used in wikis would work.

    Simple?
     



  • @Arancaytar said:


    A monk asked Joshu: isTrue(dog.hasBuddhaNature()) ?
    Joshu replied: FILENOTFOUND

    Off topic...but you win. :)

    -cw



  • @RandomPoster said:

    Not really a wtf but this is a perfect example of why docs and spreadsheets isn't a viable alternative to local applications.

     

     

    img66/9171/googledownyx0.jpg <SCRIPT type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

     

    I'd have to disagree complete, you have to remember that these kind of services are still in it's early years, and are by no means finished. How old is The MS office line now? or even OO line? where as this is not even 2 years old.

    @Goplat said:

    I can't see any advantage to web applications over normal applications, aside from the ability to access your "documents" from any computer. Since it's easy enough to put your file on a floppy, upload it somewhere, or use one of those USB flash drives, I don't consider this to be worth it.

    There are several other advantages other than having access to your files from any computer. One of the foremost is licensing costs. Currently most companies,be it large or small, are required to purchase a license for each machine. However with such a system as 'Google Office' licensing costs can be a little more flexable. The office system can allow a certain number of instances to be run at a single time, cutting the cost for business, so instead of paying for 100 licenses when only 40 instances are ever used at one time you could now purchase 40 licenses and still have the app available on 100 machines, cutting your cost by 60%.

    @KattMan said:

    Not to mention those documents that are supposed to be secured.  Using Google you have no idea what their level of security actually is.  Is a Google employee able to read this info?  Are they making proper backups of this data?  Can we show proper transfer of ownership on a document?  There are many reasons why a company can't go with an online solution.

    Given my above scenario, I'm pretty sure Google will release an Intranet System, where a business can purchase such a solution and set it up within their business therefore not requiring to exchange any confidential documents/information with google or any third party if neccessary



  • @Arancaytar said:

    @antonrojo said:

    There is a simple solution: cache local copies of documents every time they are saved online. Then add Javascript to revert to these copies when the server conneciton is lost. It would be similar to MS Word's rescued document process, and of course users would need to overwrite their online copy. For collaborative documents, a versioning system like that used in wikis would work.

    Simple?
     

    Yes!* Just use Dojo Toolkit (http://www.dojotoolkit.com/) with their offline storage and synch ability (click demos, storage, then run the 'Moxie' demo). Then, on the server side, just use any one of a dozen open source wiki's as a base.

     

    * implementation details left as an exercise for the reader.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    @KattMan said:

    Not to mention those documents that are supposed to be secured.  Using Google you have no idea what their level of security actually is.  Is a Google employee able to read this info?  Are they making proper backups of this data?  Can we show proper transfer of ownership on a document?  There are many reasons why a company can't go with an online solution.

    Given my above scenario, I'm pretty sure Google will release an Intranet System, where a business can purchase such a solution and set it up within their business therefore not requiring to exchange any confidential documents/information with google or any third party if neccessary

    That would be an advancement and does not require something like Google, even MS Office can follow that model.  Call it a serviced application model, where a certain number of licenses are purchased so the info can be used by only that number of people at once.  Have we seen this before?  Yes, take a look at SQL Server, there was a connection count that could be set and additional connection licenses could be purchased.  It didn't matter who was connecting as long as there was a connection left available.

    So why hasn't this model propagated?   I'm not sure, but maybe this idea from Google will become the stepping stone to corporations having the ability to do this internally.  For the personal user, this still leaves a hole.  Who wants to buy a whole second machine to serve this from, and how many of them are really concerned about their document security.



  • Even better, spend $349 and get all M$ software for one low price.  Anyone need ten licenses of O2K7 Enterprise, 10 licenses of Vista Business, 10 licenses of Visio 2K7 and more?  Direct from the horses mouth:

     https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455

     Woo-hoo!!

    January kit contents:  https://partner.microsoft.com/40013779

    Nice!!



  • @KattMan said:

    @shadowman said:

    I thought it worked well for our College Bowl pool last December, although it seemed a bit slow and glitchy.  I wouldn't want to use it for anything more serious yet.  Excel is pretty hard to beat, really.

    Slow and Glitchy now equals Works Well?

    Careful, statements like this are always later taken out of context.  Personally I wouldn't call slow and glitchy as working well, regardless of the usage it was put to. 

    It appears statements like that are taken out of context right off the bat, actually.   :)

    I just meant that it got the job done for checking everyone's updated standings as the month progressed.  "Works well" was a bit of an overstatement.



  • @pauluskc said:

    Even better, spend $349 and get all M$ software for one low price.  Anyone need ten licenses of O2K7 Enterprise, 10 licenses of Vista Business, 10 licenses of Visio 2K7 and more?  Direct from the horses mouth:

     https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455

     Woo-hoo!!

    January kit contents:  https://partner.microsoft.com/40013779

    Nice!!

    Becoming a Microsoft partner does entail more than just wanting free software.  You do need to have an actual reason why you wish to do so.  And I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who uses the "M$" misnomer does not have a legitimate reason for being a Microsoft partner.  That said, the Microsoft Action Pack is essentially a subscription, not products.  If you do not pay annually to continue to use the Action Pack contents, your rights to use the software is revoked.


  • @Goplat said:

    My theory about this bizarre antipathy toward the desktop computer is that it's being pushed by media companies, who are coming to realize that all their DRM schemes are ultimately futile as long as you can play a DVD on a computer you have physical access to. Any program can be cracked, but only as long as you actually have the program.

     Mmn, you may have hit the nail on the head here, Goplat.

     That said, I quite like Google Docs for working on a couple projects (I'm an aspiring novelist, among other things) and taking down quick notes so I can access them elsewhere.  I wouldn't dream of storing sensitive data there, of course - that'd just be foolhardy.

     Personally, I like the GDocs solution way better than using a keydrive (or whatever - ) as I have this horrid habit of losing the things.  Although Google Docs is liable to go down temporarily, I'm pretty sure my documents are [i]coming back[/i] - unlike the two years worth of AIM logs and art which are lost to the ages along with my pendrive.

     I think an important distinction which has yet to be made (to my knowledge) is that there are degrees of need for both privacy [i]and[/i] innovation - and in the case of Google Docs, it finds my niche need for easily-accessible and quickly-editable text resources quite nicely.  I don't really care if somewhere along the line someone sees it - I mean, yeah, it's certainly not [i]desirable[/i] to have some jerk perusing my unpublished literary hoard o' nazi gold, but it's not really gonna bother me.

     I realize that the "I don't care, so it works for me" policy is intellectually bankrupt, and I'm sorry.  ;]
     



  • @Kyanar said:

    @pauluskc said:
    Even better, spend $349 and get all M$ software for one low price.  Anyone need ten licenses of O2K7 Enterprise, 10 licenses of Vista Business, 10 licenses of Visio 2K7 and more?  Direct from the horses mouth:  https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455

    Becoming a Microsoft partner does entail more than just wanting free software.  You do need to have an actual reason why you wish to do so.  And I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who uses the "M$" misnomer does not have a legitimate reason for being a Microsoft partner.  That said, the Microsoft Action Pack is essentially a subscription, not products.  If you do not pay annually to continue to use the Action Pack contents, your rights to use the software is revoked.

    I hope you don't guarantee any software you develop in the same manner as you guarantee someone's bloggy comment code relating to their reasons...   Having owned my own web development Inc. for about 9 years now, such things as the MPP is a generous and integral part of my continued success.  Whilst I may not have sold thousands of copies of Windows Server Data Center Edition to Google or any of the other Fortune 10's, I have helped them (M$) generate business over the years.  The requirements for being a MPP are also extremely lax.  I have never distributed the software and have only used it under the license I received with it - business purposes of partner program member.

     I would think of it more as a software assurance subscription.  I subscribe to it one year, and continue my subscription into the next and lo-and-behold, I receive an automatic upgrade to the latest software.  That really helps me out as a M$ solution provider.  Which I rarely do any more because of the blossoming OSS pool out there, but once in a while someone insists on a solution from the billionaires.  Oh and I read their license extensively.  I do think that the software assurance is worth $350 per year for the multiple licenses and etc that I receive.

    And it's interesting to note that becoming the Microsoft Partner is what's free.  The Action Pack does cost $350 per year.  So it has absolutely nothing to do with getting "free" software as you put it.

    One last point...  if a 10 year old kid types l33t, does that make them an instant elite hacker extreme?  you should relax your witch-hunting scheming a hair... 

    ....and I'm workin on relaxing my defensiveness.  :)



  • Guys, guys, guys!

    You should be using
    [url=http://www.abisource.com/download/]Abiword[/url]. Small and light,
    you can use it on any system. Put it on the keychain with your
    documents. And you can save it in whatever format is convienent and
    like...gmail it to yourself or your friends or whatever if the pendrive
    isn't reliable.

    Like oowriter, it aims for 90% of
    feature-in-common with recent Offices. Unlike oowriter, it's not trying
    for 100%, and it doesn't have a built-in JVM.



  • @pauluskc said:

    I would think of it more as a software assurance subscription.  I subscribe to it one year, and continue my subscription into the next and lo-and-behold, I receive an automatic upgrade to the latest software.  That really helps me out as a M$ solution provider.  Which I rarely do any more because of the blossoming OSS pool out there, but once in a while someone insists on a solution from the billionaires.  Oh and I read their license extensively.  I do think that the software assurance is worth $350 per year for the multiple licenses and etc that I receive.

    Indeed you do. However if you do NOT carry over your subscription to the next year, you lose the right to use your CURRENT version of the software.  This is evidenced by Microsoft's quote:

    The term of the Microsoft Action Pack Subscription is one (1) year from
    the date you purchase. Product licenses will expire at the end of the
    term of this Agreement and you must then remove from your PCs all
    copies of Products obtained under this Agreement, unless valid licenses
    are either purchased for them, or, if applicable, obtained by renewal
    of this subscription.

    Meh, it's fair enough considering that whole "worth $10,000, getting it for $300" thing.  All in all though, my opinion is that the Empower for ISVs program is better, as you get one MSDN Premium (with virtually all MS software) for $375 - all for the low cost of developing one "Certified for Windows" product within a year (or two at a stretch).  Downside being, you're automatically upgraded to the Certified Partner level when you complete it.  Kinda sneaky really, but the benefits are good.



  • @Kyanar said:

    eh, it's fair enough considering that whole "worth $10,000, getting it for $300" thing.  All in all though, my opinion is that the Empower for ISVs program is better, as you get one MSDN Premium (with virtually all MS software) for $375 - all for the low cost of developing one "Certified for Windows" product within a year (or two at a stretch).  Downside being, you're automatically upgraded to the Certified Partner level when you complete it.  Kinda sneaky really, but the benefits are good.
    Well, remember to factor in the costs of getting that software certified...



  • @pauluskc said:

    Even better, spend $349 and get all M$ software for one low price.  Anyone need ten licenses of O2K7 Enterprise, 10 licenses of Vista Business, 10 licenses of Visio 2K7 and more?  Direct from the horses mouth:

     https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455

     Woo-hoo!!

    January kit contents:  https://partner.microsoft.com/40013779

    Nice!!

    Yeah, but do they supply debs? I get a bit tired of compiling everything from source...


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